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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 13th August 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Motorway Lane Discipline

I see that learner drivers are to be allowed on motorways with an instructor, in order to learn lane discipline.

I thought the rules were quite clear on a three lane motorway:

* Lane one is for HGVs.
* Lane two is for HGVs overtaking those in lane one, at a speed differential of 0.1 mph.
* Lane three is for white Transit vans doing 90mph.

Jim
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Old 13th August 2017
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

That's like teaching ethics. All well and good in theory but on the M25 they would be better off teaching chaos theory and the butterfly effect

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Old 13th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
That's like teaching ethics. All well and good in theory but on the M25 they would be better off teaching chaos theory and the butterfly effect

Doesn't the M25 pass through Ethics?
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Old 13th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I see that learner drivers are to be allowed on motorways with an instructor, in order to learn lane discipline.

I thought the rules were quite clear on a three lane motorway:

* Lane one is for HGVs.
* Lane two is for HGVs overtaking those in lane one, at a speed differential of 0.1 mph.
* Lane three is for white Transit vans doing 90mph.

Jim
I object to that. The last (rental) Trannie I drove had a speedo that only went up to 95mph so I never knew how fast I was going.

My co-driver had his feet on the dashboard braced for impact and said "if you scratch it I won't get my deposit back and that's our beer money for tonight"

My response was "Seriously? At these speeds it's going to be more than a f•••••g scratch".

Edit. For some reason I think that the speedo went up to 96mph. You'd have thought my co-driver would have been more tolerant given he was using a Honda RC45 as his daily transport.
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Old 13th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
* Lane three is for white Transit vans doing 90mph.
You would be lucky to manage 90 MPH now.

Virtually every white van is fitted with a speed limiter, so they cannot exceed 60 MPH; but they still hog the overtaking lane just as they have for the past 40 years.

The only traffic moving at 90 MPH would be Audis and BMWs undertaking the white vans in the slow lane, dodging the Toyotas doing 56 MPH in the middle lane.
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Old 13th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

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Originally Posted by Walti View Post
Doesn't the M25 pass through Ethics?

Brilliant.

And yeth it does, which reminds me of the very old (now also very non PC) seaside postcard.

Doctor to young girl "big breaths"

Young girl "yeth and I'm only thixteen".

I'll get my hat.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

Lane Discipline? LANE DISCIPLINE !! You shouldn't have got me started!

We drove home from Ethics yesterday evening along the northern half of the M25 from the A127 to the M40. Picture the scene - 4 carriageways, there's me in the virtually empty inside lane, a virtually empty lane 2, and lanes 3 and 4 with streams of fast moving traffic. Though I was actually going faster than lane 3, and was occasionally overtaken by drivers sensibly in lane 2. This is utter madness. I don't know about you all, but I'd much rather be driving in a more empty lane away from all the lunatics. And no, on this occasion there weren't lorries ahead, so I could keep motoring in the inside lane for some time. And this was to be found, though not so extremely, periodically throughout the whole journey. My wife was getting a bit fed up with me stressing about it by the end, but I was rather exasperated by it! I've never known it that bad.

Rant over

Ian

Edit. Oh, and just to be clear, I was at the speed limit, or thereabouts
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawcoll View Post
Lane Discipline? LANE DISCIPLINE !! You shouldn't have got me started!

We drove home from Ethics yesterday evening along the northern half of the M25 from the A127 to the M40. Picture the scene - 4 carriageways, there's me in the virtually empty inside lane, a virtually empty lane 2, and lanes 3 and 4 with streams of fast moving traffic. Though I was actually going faster than lane 3, and was occasionally overtaken by drivers sensibly in lane 2. This is utter madness. I don't know about you all, but I'd much rather be driving in a more empty lane away from all the lunatics. And no, on this occasion there weren't lorries ahead, so I could keep motoring in the inside lane for some time. And this was to be found, though not so extremely, periodically throughout the whole journey. My wife was getting a bit fed up with me stressing about it by the end, but I was rather exasperated by it! I've never known it that bad.

Rant over

Ian
This is by no means unusual. Like you I often opt to stay in the inside lane where there is some space, and less likelihood of getting shunted the next time it all comes to a grinding halt.

The problem seems to be that everyone piles into the overtaking lane, including those driving vehicles with speed limiters, and those who insist on setting the cruise control at 69 MPH just in case their wheels fall off, or out of fear of a lifetime driving ban for doing 70.0000000001 MPH.

I really don't think our police forces' current obsession with persecuting drivers for minor speeding infringements has done anything at all to improve road safety.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

I should add, the current popularity of large 4 x 4 vehicles, people carriers and vans that you simply cannot see around or over has made things even worse.

Interestingly, some years ago the government imposed a blanket 55 MPH speed limit on all roads to help conserve fuel. (I think this was in response to the Middle East oil crisis in 1972, when petrol ration books were issued, but never used.) This was long before the current trend for speed cameras on every motorway bridge, but one of the reasons for dropping that speed limit was the dangerous 'bunching' that occurred on motorways.

There was also a problem with disk brakes becoming 'glazed' owing to lack of hard use, so they became ineffective in an emergency.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

Our learner-drivers (accompanied by a licensed driver) are allowed on all roads, freeways included but I'm sure your motorways are seriously more challenging for a learner than our freeways.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

I broadly welcome the new legislation, but I'm not too sure how it will work because some communities, especially in Scotland, are a long way from the nearest motorway.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

The M3 near where we live has completed it's makeover to a Smart Motorway so the 50 mph limit is off. The trouble is a large number of drivers, even in the absence of 50mph speed limit signs, are still keeping to 50mph even in lane 4.
Conversely there is even stranger behaviour, drivers doing 70mph are now slamming on their brakes when approaching the average speed cameras despite a large notice showing "camera not in use".
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

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Originally Posted by mack100 View Post
The M3 near where we live has completed it's makeover to a Smart Motorway so the 50 mph limit is off. The trouble is a large number of drivers, even in the absence of 50mph speed limit signs, are still keeping to 50mph even in lane 4.
Conversely there is even stranger behaviour, drivers doing 70mph are now slamming on their brakes when approaching the average speed cameras despite a large notice showing "camera not in use".
As I said, I really don't think our police forces' current obsession with persecuting drivers for minor speeding infringements has done anything at all to improve road safety.

Indeed, I believe there is a strong argument for increasing the present 70 MPH limit to (say) 80 or 85 MPH for many motorways in 'off peak' hours.

The 70 MPH limit was originally set by Barbara Castle in 1967 if I recall, who had never driven a car in her life. The limit was imposed at a time when many cars still had drum brakes and were shod with dreadful cross ply tyres.

In practice, if the limit were set to 80 MPH, the true speed would only increase to about 72 MPH, as most vehicles' speedometers read about 8 - 10% fast anyway. At present an indicated 70 MPH equates to a true speed of about 64 MPH, or 50 MPH for Toyota drivers it seems.
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I should add, the current popularity of large 4 x 4 vehicles, people carriers and vans that you simply cannot see around or over has made things even worse.
Sorry I resemble that comment (unless I pinch the wife's classic mini)

It is nice seeing over all you small car owners - its much easier to plan ahead and see that car 3 ahead is breaking and the ones in between have not reacted yet

Mind you when i'm in the 3 ton Land Rover with drum brakes I get just as annoyed at people diving in front of me as you probably do. I dread that one day one will stop suddenly and I won't be able to.

My trouble is I can get to 65 and overtake HGV's unless (like the other day) someone cuts in when I am going uphill and I have to brake so my speed drops then the HGVs get their own back with their V12 engines and my little old 2.5 TDi can't get me back up to speed and I have to drop back between them (pet hate and usually a sports car driver who dies it to me)

Regards
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Old 14th August 2017
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Re: Motorway Lane Discipline

[QUOTE=Naughty Nigel;424746
I really don't think our police forces' current obsession with persecuting drivers for minor speeding infringements has done anything at all to improve road safety.[/QUOTE]

The police-approved way of driving is to keep watching the speedometer. Never mind all those distracting goings-on outside the vehicle, speed control is everything!

Harold
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