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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Re: National Trust

Agreed what set my alarm bells ringing was this paragraph:
"A commercial photographer who was planning to shoot some action photographs for an outdoor publication on crags which fall within one of the NT’s extensive Snowdonia estates, has been quoted £250 to £400 per hour to carry out his assignment."
(My emphasis)

That suggests to me that there may be some risks involved. If you want to shoot someone plummeting off a cliff face in a wingsuit or dropping off a vertical face on a mountain bike you're going to need to close paths and stop unwitting members of the public (and sheep) from wandering into the shot or into the line of fire.
If it's not easily accessible then the cost of personnel, even volunteers could climb quite fast. I imagine there are liability issues which the NT would need to insure against.

It's not quite the same as a lone hiker setting up a tripod and taking a nice landscape

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Re: National Trust

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
If a professional photographer wants to use a NT estate or building for a photo-shoot I believe it is entirely reasonable that they should pay a charge for this. Even with vast numbers of volunteer staff the NT doesn't run on fresh air.

However, any charges for photography should be 'reasonable' and proportionate to the work involved, and not arbitrarily dreamt up by local estate managers. Indeed, I think this may be where the NT has created bad press recently: If there was a clear policy set out as to what was allowed where, how much it cost and where to pay I think it would go a long way to calming everyone's fears that the NT is about to ban professional photography in the Lake District or wherever.

Professional film and television productions should of course pay proportionate commercial rates as they would do elsewhere, although I would hope that the Trust will be mindful that any kind of professional filming or photography provides very good publicity at little or no actual cost.
Has anyone seen any actual evidence that the NT is asking fees of around £400 per hour or are all the reports the same as this article ?

In my opinion to say a Pro photographer I know said ".........................." is worth totally nothing other than to add more fuel to the possible Fake News.

John
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Re: National Trust

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Has anyone seen any actual evidence that the NT is asking fees of around £400 per hour or are all the reports the same as this article ?
No we haven't, and we just don't know what the Trust's policy is on this matter.Therein lies the problem.

The trust does provide an email address for professionals wanting to sell images taken on Trust estates, but there is no clue as to what their policy is or how much it might cost to be granted permission. In many cases there may be no charge at all. We simply don't know.

I suspect much of the difficulty relates to finding someone within the organisation who is willing and able to make a binding decision on the matter.

There is also some lack of clarity as to whether permission should be sought before taking photographs, or before selling them. My interpretation is that it is OK to take the photographs but you must ask permission before selling them.
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Re: National Trust

We as a group we are mainly amateur photographers (I'm exceedingly amateur I must say) so no worries for us. Anyone running a business profiting from their merchandise should expect to pay. The NT is an asset and any extra income generated should hopefully improve the homes and gardens for the members to explore.
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Re: National Trust

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
We as a group we are mainly amateur photographers (I'm exceedingly amateur I must say) so no worries for us. Anyone running a business profiting from their merchandise should expect to pay. The NT is an asset and any extra income generated should hopefully improve the homes and gardens for the members to explore.

Agreed 100%

John
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Re: National Trust

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
No we haven't, and we just don't know what the Trust's policy is on this matter.Therein lies the problem.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/visitor-faqs

Where can I take photographs?

Outdoors: all visitors to National Trust properties are allowed to take photographs out of doors for their own private use. Any individuals wishing to sell or publish photographs should contact images@nationaltrust.org.uk.

Indoors: amateur photography (including filming) without flash is now permitted in historic interiors at the Property Managerís discretion. As with outdoor photography, any photographs taken are strictly for private use, and enquiries about selling or publishing photographs should be directed to images@nationaltrust.org.uk. However, visitors must be aware that at some places, there may be copyright issues, and further permissions may be required in respect of collections not owned by us. In these situations the Property Manager's decision as to whether photography is allowed is final.
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  #37  
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Re: National Trust

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Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/visitor-faqs

Where can I take photographs?

Outdoors: all visitors to National Trust properties are allowed to take photographs out of doors for their own private use. Any individuals wishing to sell or publish photographs should contact images@nationaltrust.org.uk.

Indoors: amateur photography (including filming) without flash is now permitted in historic interiors at the Property Managerís discretion. As with outdoor photography, any photographs taken are strictly for private use, and enquiries about selling or publishing photographs should be directed to images@nationaltrust.org.uk. However, visitors must be aware that at some places, there may be copyright issues, and further permissions may be required in respect of collections not owned by us. In these situations the Property Manager's decision as to whether photography is allowed is final.
Excellent Adagio !

I guess we can assume even posting photos on here could be classed as "publishing" and permission should be obtained first.

John
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Re: National Trust

All as I opined in my original post.
And yes most Properties now allow photography without flash - quite reasonably in the circumstances.
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Re: National Trust

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Not much point in you being a member now David, youre 3.5 thousand miles away. Besides you will be too busy with the BBPS

Regards,

John
OK, what's BBPS. I'm pretty sure it's not BB Public School or Pre School.
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Re: National Trust

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OK, what's BBPS. I'm pretty sure it's not BB Public School or Pre School.
After your wife's recent experience with wildlife, BBPS = Black Bear Preservation Society

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Re: National Trust

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After your wife's recent experience with wildlife, BBPS = Black Bear Preservation Society

John
Very good. One was here again this morning about 10 minutes after I left for work.
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Re: National Trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMc View Post
Agreed what set my alarm bells ringing was this paragraph:
"A commercial photographer who was planning to shoot some action photographs for an outdoor publication on crags which fall within one of the NT’s extensive Snowdonia estates, has been quoted £250 to £400 per hour to carry out his assignment."
(My emphasis)

That suggests to me that there may be some risks involved. If you want to shoot someone plummeting off a cliff face in a wingsuit or dropping off a vertical face on a mountain bike you're going to need to close paths and stop unwitting members of the public (and sheep) from wandering into the shot or into the line of fire.
If it's not easily accessible then the cost of personnel, even volunteers could climb quite fast. I imagine there are liability issues which the NT would need to insure against.

It's not quite the same as a lone hiker setting up a tripod and taking a nice landscape

It's a valid point. We had to stop mountain bikers coming onto the family farm in South Africa because of litigation issues. It was difficult to enforce, mainly because they were too fast for us to get them off the land. It was in part fearing litigation, but was also for their own safety. We went through a bad phase of the Lycra brigade being ambushed at night by criminals who would clobber them with 2x4's in the woods and take their bikes, beat them up.

The farm includes a forest on a mountain, which has a cliff face and over the years, mountain rescue have had to be called out to walkers, who fell into a pot hole or got stuck on the mountain in bad weather. The rescue helicopter charges $1000 per hour, then it gets complicated who pays. I have the photos. We have no objections to anyone taking photos. I can understand the NT's stance on commercial photography. Holiday snaps wouldn't apply. Right?
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Re: National Trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/visitor-faqs

Where can I take photographs?

Outdoors: all visitors to National Trust properties are allowed to take photographs out of doors for their own private use. Any individuals wishing to sell or publish photographs should contact images@nationaltrust.org.uk.

Indoors: amateur photography (including filming) without flash is now permitted in historic interiors at the Property Managerís discretion. As with outdoor photography, any photographs taken are strictly for private use, and enquiries about selling or publishing photographs should be directed to images@nationaltrust.org.uk. However, visitors must be aware that at some places, there may be copyright issues, and further permissions may be required in respect of collections not owned by us. In these situations the Property Manager's decision as to whether photography is allowed is final.

I think you have misinterpreted the thrust of my post.

As stated above there are very few restrictions on photography which is purely for PRIVATE purposes, although I am unsure how easy that is to police.

However, there is no stated policy for professional photography other than imploring professionals to write to the Trust using the email address provided.

My view, very simply, is that it would be helpful if there was some information posted covering typical professional commissions.

For example, how much for a set of bride and groom images in a Trust garden. How much for a landscape used in a commercial calendar? There must be a table of charges somewhere.

Commercial film and television productions would obviously need to be individually costed.
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