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Olympus OM-D E-M5 The first Micro Four Thirds camera from Olympus with an integrated Electronic Viewfinder

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  #16  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
Just came across this and I'm guessing the E-M5 was not designed with FT SHG glass in mind.

Even with the grip and my small hands I could not see me getting my finger around it for the lack of room.

I think that is probably the worst case scenario

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  #17  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by sponner View Post
I think you have answered your own questions really, it would be a big gamble without seeing the real world image quality.
Any questions about image quality will be answered well before John (or any of us) has to make a decision.

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  #18  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
Very interesting dilema and one that I share albeit coming from a different direction.

I am at the point when I want to upgrade from the kit lenses which came with my E520 plus the body itself.. The latter is my priority for handling reasons connected with being a glasses wearer and the strong desire for a swivel/tilt rear screen as well as some more specific needs around IQ.

So my plan was 12-60/50-200 SWD with, ideally, an E5 and maybe EC14 and/or ec20. I have Sigma macro and long tele.

Then along comes OMD. This looks very good indeed as it has much that appeals.

It only has a tilt screen rather that swivel, which I find very odd I might add, but the big issue is the m4/3 glass. How good is it compared to the aforementioned lenses? Bearing in mind that with the 4/3 convertor that could be partly addressed but some of the OMD advantages, AF especially, will not be available to my understanding.

Handling is a open question but I hope to get a feel for that at Focus. An E5 still appeals for it's size and associated preferred handling in advance of that experience.

So that still leaves the question of glass.

Is m4/3 glass as good as 4/3?

Will Olympus address full 4/3 compatability with the OMD series? By that I mean full AF and not just the basic ability to use the lenses.

Ian - it might be an impossible question for you to answer so apologies upfront on that but do you have any information on the 4/3 compatability with OMD in its fuller sense.

Plus, again a nasty question with associated apologies, is this the end of E series 4/3 camera's or will we see an E7 OM enthusiast/pro camera with the mirrorless technology in the OMD and the high quality sensor but for 4/3 glass?

Personally that is what I want and I ackowledge my selfishness on this and the fact that I have not yet handled an OMD.

Hec
The only Micro Four Thirds lens that I have been unenthusiastic about from an image quality perspective is the 17mm pancake - and yet this lens has many fans.

Lenses like the Panasonic 7-14, 25mm f/1.4, m.Zuiko 12mm f/2.0, 45mm f/1.8, 9-18mm, and others are really excellent performers. Where I think there is a gap is fast telephotos because these will always be relatively large lenses. The 75-300 is optically very good but not very bright. This is an issue for DSLRs but less so with mirror-less cameras because EVFs/screens can compensate for viewfinder darkness and contrast detect AF works better with darker lenses.

For absolute technical perfection the top end Four Thirds Zuikos will have an edge.

As I have said before, I think an adapter with phase detect AF will eventually be available for MFT users to use FT lenses without AF performance compromise but I have no idea if this is really true or when it would appear.

Ian
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  #19  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I think that is probably the worst case scenario

Ian
I don't know, the 150mm is tiny compared to the legacy OM 350mm.
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  #20  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
As I have said before, I think an adapter with phase detect AF will eventually be available for MFT users to use FT lenses without AF performance compromise but I have no idea if this is really true or when it would appear.
I think this is the thing that's annoying a few people simply because there are real-life solution available from other manufacturers, the Nikon 1 series has PDAF on chip while Sony have the transparent mirror adaptor solution for the NEX range... there are some pretty wild expectations on rumour forums but this one is certainly within the realms of possibility.
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  #21  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

I'd suggest you have a read of Kirk Tuck's Visual Science Lab blog:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/

I find his opinions and insights very even handed and useful, especially regarding the likely direction photography is taking from both a professional and enthusiast viewpoint. He has some interesting comments on the micro4/3 system which he uses for much of his work.

Jerry
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  #22  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
I don't know, the 150mm is tiny compared to the legacy OM 350mm.
I haven't seen one of those, but compared to the 150mm f/2 and the 14-35 f/2, the lens mount end of a 300mm f/2.8 is very slim

Ian
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  #23  
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by timg View Post
I think this is the thing that's annoying a few people simply because there are real-life solution available from other manufacturers, the Nikon 1 series has PDAF on chip while Sony have the transparent mirror adaptor solution for the NEX range... there are some pretty wild expectations on rumour forums but this one is certainly within the realms of possibility.
I still haven't worked out what the benefit of PDAF on the sensor is for the Nikon 1. Overall Nikon 1 AF performance doesn't seem to be better than Micro Four Thirds. As the sensor on an Nikon 1 is very small the attraction of using Nikkor DSLR lenses is limited. While you can autofocus with Nikkor DSLR AF lenses there are quite severe limitations:

Autofocus compatibility: if you use AF-S NIKKOR lenses, you can still make use of the Nikon 1 autofocus system. Focus mode must be set to AF-S (Single AF) and AF-area mode is fixed at Single-point, with only the center focus point used. (From the Nikon website).

The Sony system, which I would expect Olympus to emulate, is much better.

Ian
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  #24  
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I still haven't worked out what the benefit of PDAF on the sensor is for the Nikon 1. Overall Nikon 1 AF performance doesn't seem to be better than Micro Four Thirds. As the sensor on an Nikon 1 is very small the attraction of using Nikkor DSLR lenses is limited. While you can autofocus with Nikkor DSLR AF lenses there are quite severe limitations:

Autofocus compatibility: if you use AF-S NIKKOR lenses, you can still make use of the Nikon 1 autofocus system. Focus mode must be set to AF-S (Single AF) and AF-area mode is fixed at Single-point, with only the center focus point used. (From the Nikon website).

The Sony system, which I would expect Olympus to emulate, is much better.
I thought the on-chip PDAF on the Nikon 1 was used to improve continuous autofocus of the native lenses? This hasn't really been a strong point of CDAF so far and I'll be interested to see how the EM-5 copes with moving subjects, even though it's not really that necessary for the type of things I shoot (apart from my daughter!). I've not tried one myself but I was under the impression the CAF was pretty accurate on them.

I presume the single-point only limitation is due to where the PDAF points are on the chip... maybe this is why Olympus hasn't implemented it like this, you'd lose too many pixels to the AF system...

The only downside to the transparent mirror solution is the amount of light lost at the sensor, but if the high ISOs are as clean on the EM-5 as we're led to believe this shouldn't be so much of an issue.
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  #25  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
Just came across this and I'm guessing the E-M5 was not designed with FT SHG glass in mind.

Even with the grip and my small hands I could not see me getting my finger around it for the lack of room.

Don't forget, the top plate of the handgrip is considerably wider than the rest of it, so there might be more space than it appears in the photo.

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/om...ld-6_25552.htm

Ron
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  #26  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

In the real world, neither Olympus nor Panasonic make bad lenses. Unless you're a pixel-peeper. Corner softness? How often do you place your point of interest right in the corner of a shot?
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  #27  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

I echo his findings on the PL 25mm 1.4 lens, oddly enough I got the lens the same day as him!!

Paul
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  #28  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by timg View Post
I thought the on-chip PDAF on the Nikon 1 was used to improve continuous autofocus of the native lenses? This hasn't really been a strong point of CDAF so far and I'll be interested to see how the EM-5 copes with moving subjects, even though it's not really that necessary for the type of things I shoot (apart from my daughter!). I've not tried one myself but I was under the impression the CAF was pretty accurate on them.

I presume the single-point only limitation is due to where the PDAF points are on the chip... maybe this is why Olympus hasn't implemented it like this, you'd lose too many pixels to the AF system...

The only downside to the transparent mirror solution is the amount of light lost at the sensor, but if the high ISOs are as clean on the EM-5 as we're led to believe this shouldn't be so much of an issue.
A single point for C-AF is very limiting and the latest MFT cameras seem to have improved this a lot without that limitation. Fujifilm has on-sensor PDAF for the X100 but they ditched it for the X-Pro1. So I'm not sure it's actually that useful.

How about a quick return mirror just for the AF sensors in a FT/MFT adapter?!

Ian
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  #29  
Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

Don't forget, John, that pre-ordering does not commit you to purchase, and you WILL get your deposit back if you decide against purchase. At SRS the deposit is only £20. And this guarantees you the grip if you do proceed.
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Old 13th February 2012
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Re: Oh My Dilemma

Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions. I'm now veering towards the wait and see option, after all it's a bit of a risk putting all my eggs in one basket when I don't even know what the basket is like! Also, I do like the Pen design, with an EVF available but not fixed. Maybe I will just sell the E-3 plus 14-54mm and get a VF2 and possibly a 12-50mm instead. Weatherproofing would be nice but I used to cope before having it by using a plastic bag! Thinking about the attraction of the free grip, I'm not sure it's something I would use much anyway, so it's hardly worth making a rash or impulsive decision just to get one.
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