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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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Old 31st May 2018
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Pro-Capture Archery shots

Well gave it a try and ended up shooting over 1200 images even though I think I only pressed the shutter release about half a dozen times
So as expected I got lots of images, ok as such but really pretty boring. My main problem was actually knowing when the camera was capturing pre capture and when I'd actually released the shutter for real. The sensitivity that's usually there with the shutter release just seemed to be absent for some reason. Now maybe it was just the pressure of the task or maybe I just need more practise. Hmm I wonder if these thousands of shots add onto the shutter count? lots of practice would soon build up the count and wear out the shutter if so. Anyway here are 5 of the best release shots. Not too bad considering the arrow is probably traveling between 30-60mph.











Overall it was a pretty difficult thing to attempt made even more difficult by taking part myself and the rightly very strict health and safety precautions that limited where I could take shots from. Anyway a system that lets a complete novice like me take split second arrow in flight shots is pretty impressive in my book.
Put this in LFI to encourage ideas tips and critique for improvement in the future.
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

If this was to be revisited, I'd suggest a tripod and remote control to go forward of the firing line, to overcome safety rules and to capture the shooters faces as well as the action.

But that relies on how the archers feel about you "putting them off"...
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
If this was to be revisited, I'd suggest a tripod and remote control to go forward of the firing line, to overcome safety rules and to capture the shooters faces as well as the action.

But that relies on how the archers feel about you "putting them off"...
Using silent shutter would be good from the putting-off point of view, but I wonder if you might get rolling shutter issues?
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

I definitely agree with you Graham about the tripod and remote operation, good idea. Needs much better planning overall. Silent shutter is also a good question Mark. I just used pro-capture but it did seem as if it had switched to a very quiet mode. Presumably 60fps pro-capture has to be electronic so in effect is silent shutter.
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

I think you have the answer in the better planning. With 4 people in a line there is little room for a better angle. Perhaps concentrate on just one person on his/her own. Was there a countdown or some method to give you some idea as to when someone was about to release the string? In the ideal world the archer would use a release aid and wire that up to a corded trigger control for the camera.
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

No it wasn't set up at all for photography. I just had to grab what I could get. Definitely no countdown just guesswork and the pre capture frames. Couldn't have been worse really, a dark shelter for the archers and bright targets.
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

A couple of comments about Pro Capture.

The system uses the electronic shutter only, so wonít count up as wear and tear on the shutter.

Iíve not seen any rolling shutter issues at all with the Pro Captue or the 60fps high speed electronic shutter work - Iím starting to think itís been all but eliminated in this system?

Given the restrictions you were working with I think youíve done an excellent job!

Go through the photos youíve got and see how your reactions match up to the result then adjust the number of frames before and after the full press to match up more with your use of the system - less tedious empty shots to go through!
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Old 31st May 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

I forgot.... you are probably best off using a laptop and Olympus Capture for remote work as you can use all the features of the camera this way, while remote releases and the phone app are restricted in their performance, just need a long USB cable!

So in that environment having the camera slightly in front and to the side of the archers would have allowed more interesting shots?
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walti View Post

Iíve not seen any rolling shutter issues at all with the Pro Captue or the 60fps high speed electronic shutter work - Iím starting to think itís been all but eliminated in this system?
That's interesting - I've only used Pro Capture a few times, and for nothing as fast as an arrow, so it had crossed my mind it might have issues. I guess if one's using it for an arrow with the camera held landscape-mode there shouldn't be a problem. Portrait orientation, or a taller moving subject, might have problems, though.

I've got some birding outings over the next couple of weeks so I was going to give it a go.

Another arrow in my quiver, perhaps?
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Old 1st June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

Walti I was just wondering how I find the shutter release point in the shots? At the time I just pressed in hope as I didn't know when the release would be and the shutter release pressure doesn't change between half press and full press. I think there is a change from a circling green arrow in the EVF to the usual green dot showing af has worked but at the time it was all pretty quick so difficult to be sure. I didn't think to ask the archers to shout out when they were releasing their arrows so it wasn't reaction time as such it was just anticipation and guesswork for me.
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Old 1st June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
Walti I was just wondering how I find the shutter release point in the shots? At the time I just pressed in hope as I didn't know when the release would be and the shutter release pressure doesn't change between half press and full press. I think there is a change from a circling green arrow in the EVF to the usual green dot showing af has worked but at the time it was all pretty quick so difficult to be sure. I didn't think to ask the archers to shout out when they were releasing their arrows so it wasn't reaction time as such it was just anticipation and guesswork for me.
So if you go to Cog, C1, H (or L) Settings, Pro Cap, you get the following options:

Max FPS
Pre-shutter frames
Frame count limiter

So mine has the pre count currently set to 14.
Look at the stream of photos and the 15th in my example should be where you did the full press, I would have watched the fingers of the archer and use him releasing the string as the cue to go full press.

You should then be able to judge your reaction time, e.g. if the arrow went at full press -10 then you don't need any photos after the full press and probably want more before... or if the arrow left at full press +10 then you need less photos before and possibly more after.

You will also be able to judge how many frames in total are needed.

The thing with it firing at 60fps is that you really can't hear it (Even with the camera next to your ear it's barely audible) so you have to trust your feel of the shutter release button, as you say you get the logo to show it's buffering shots for you while half pressed, and it continues to fire until either you release the shutter button or reach the frame count limiter (which can be set up to 99)

NB the mechanics of the shutter button don't change when you're using it at very high frame rates, you just don't get any mechanical feedback from the camera in the sound of the aperture changing or anything else...
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Old 2nd June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

That's exactly how it felt Walti, very little feedback, that's what you need to get used to. I also had mind set at 60fps pre release too. So lots of shots to go through. At 30-60mph for the arrows the fps needs to be pretty rapid. The tutor demonstrated his competition bow to us at the end and that was seriously fast, over 200 mph he said. No chance of catching the arrows from that.
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Old 3rd June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

When you use pro capture the camera actually starts taking shots as soon as you begin to press the shutter, if you dont press it all the way down it just keeps taking more shots and the earliest ones are simply overwritten when the buffer it full. Its only when you press it all the way down that it stores the set number of shots and then stops. So if you have set it to say keep 30 before and 30 after the shutter is pressed it also stores the 30 most recent pre release shots. Hope that makes sense.
As already said it uses electronic shutter so no increase in mechanical shutter count, but I think it does increase the count of IS usage.
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Old 3rd June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

Dave I had mine set to save 35 pre capture frames and frame limit was off. So I think that should have been a max of 134 shots at 60fps for every full shutter press. I don't think I quite got that but it wasn't far off. Hence I rapidly got to over 1200 images from around 9 proper shots! of which maybe two probably yielded images worth looking at. Saying 12 images out of 1200 were useful doesn't sound a very good hit rate so I prefer to say 2 shots out of 9 . It was good fun anyway, next time I think I'll pick an easier subject.
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Old 3rd June 2018
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Re: Pro-Capture Archery shots

To be honest I think 1 archer sideways on and a 3-2-1 count down would really up your hit rate.
Rob.
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