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  #136  
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Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
A bit of polish and it will be back on the forecourt in a few days.

They will sell it with an extended warranty so it won't cost the garage when it goes bang at the end of the road.
Nigel,

You missed your vocation!

I'm waiting for the garage to report back on the cause of the loss. If they start asking who last touched the drain plug, it was them, 6 months ago.

Harold
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  #137  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
Nigel,

You missed your vocation!

Harold
No; I am just extremely cynical and despairing about the rip off culture of so many businesses these days. The motor industry is one of the worst offenders, but sadly is by no means alone any more.

The mantra seems to be 'shaft the customer at every opportunity, then if caught out ignore, quote terms and conditions, and if all else fails, disappear'. The internet has made things 100 times worse as so many transactions are not made face to face, and it is easy to hide behind a website and 'Response Forms' that do not work.

Alternatively you can direct dissatisfied customers to an overseas call centre, where they can speak to hand-picked operatives who speak little English (or pretend not to), and who will tell you to wait an hour before trying again.

Coming back to cars, we had an interesting experience with a low mileage, one year old Astra that we bought from one of the big national dealerships.

We took the car out for a test drive and were generally happy with it, but I noticed there was a clutch judder. We agreed to take the car if the clutch problem was fixed.

The next Saturday we went to collect the car, and were treated to the usual bullshit, with the car in the showroom surrounded by red ropes and with a red blanket over it. I was told that the clutch had been replaced, but that it would take a few miles to 'settle in'.

Everything seemed fine, but the clutch judder kept on returning to the point that the car became almost un-drivable in stop-start traffic and in multi-story car parks. I called the salesman who said he would make a note, and that it would be fixed at the next service.

The next service came. The car was now two years old, and still well within warranty, and had covered around 22,000 miles.

The mechanic reported severe clutch judder, (I had already told them that), so I asked them to fix it under warranty. Initially it seemed the work would be done, but then they came back and said that the clutch was a "wear and tear item", and was only covered to 18,000 miles. If I wanted the clutch replaced it would cost me £1,100!

"But I reported it to the Salesman." "Ahh yes; but he doesn't work here any more and there are no notes on your file"

"But what about the Evans Halshaw extended warranty that you sold me?" "I'm sorry, that only covers sudden, unexpected failures. This has been going on for some time hasn't it?"

The fall out from this went on for months with letters to and from Head Office. In the meantime a search online showed that the clutch problem was well known in several models of Astra, Corsa and others, and that there was a factory approved fix for it.

I was on the point of issuing proceedings when I heard that Evans Halshaw Vauxhall (the branch I used) had been prosecuted by Trading Standards at Middlesbrough Magistrates Court for lying to a customer, and basically selling him a car for £6,000 that should never have been on the road.

I faxed head office threatening court action and sending a copy of the newspaper report. I received a phone call within the hour apologising for the oversight and asking when I would like the work done.
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  #138  
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Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I think it's only against new cars, Derek. But I concur about the mileage being too low. That's why I asked how old the car is earlier. Depending on the age, it may have monograde oil, non-detergent. If so, it will have built up sludge. And it sounds as if it hadn't warmed up properly when it seized, which may be an indicator.
The oil was changed by a long-established garage six months ago. Not warmed up? It had been driven cross-country (up to 60mph ) for about 40 muinutes.

Harold
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Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Use the scrappage marketing campaigns to get a newer vehicle.
For those who dream of a new car, perhaps as a scrappage deal, and anticipate the "new" smell of the interior, the smell is of pthallates (esters of). They have health hazards for males:

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSC...phthalates.htm

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.o...hormone-levels

There is also suspicion about causing asthma in young children.

Harold
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  #140  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I think it's only against new cars, Derek. But I concur about the mileage being too low. That's why I asked how old the car is earlier. Depending on the age, it may have monograde oil, non-detergent. If so, it will have built up sludge. And it sounds as if it hadn't warmed up properly when it seized, which may be an indicator.
I thought monograde oils went out with Castrol R?

None of the multigrades and fancy synthetic oils smell anything like as good.
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  #141  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I have just been told my car is OK.

I don't understand the full details but a pipe on the back of the turbo had come adrift and dumped the oil. Most of what I will have to pay will be for a cleanup off the oil from the undercar boards. The garge has taken it for a test drive. Of course, their are no guarantees.

Harold
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  #142  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I thought monograde oils went out with Castrol R?

None of the multigrades and fancy synthetic oils smell anything like as good.
I can't remember when multigrades came in that were suitable for diesels. Just had a quick look on the net, and the top hit was someone saying that Detroit Diesel and Allison both specify 30 or 40 Monograde. That was in 2013. I have a vague recollection that the common-rail Kia diesel used multigrade, but it had a very small range compared with petrol engine multigrade oils. That was in 2011. Incidentally, diesels require mineral oils, not synthetics, so far as I am aware.
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I can't remember when multigrades came in that were suitable for diesels. Just had a quick look on the net, and the top hit was someone saying that Detroit Diesel and Allison both specify 30 or 40 Monograde. That was in 2013. I have a vague recollection that the common-rail Kia diesel used multigrade, but it had a very small range compared with petrol engine multigrade oils. That was in 2011. Incidentally, diesels require mineral oils, not synthetics, so far as I am aware.
I think that has all changed now.

When I had the S-type Ford recommended Magnatec Semi-synthetic 5 w 30 oil (also recommended for all Ford petrol engines). That was a 2007 car but the recommendation dated from 2004.

My XF is supposed to use a fully synthetic Castrol oil which is not generally available to the public. I can use Shell Helix but it never needs topping up anyway.
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  #144  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I am becoming increasingly relieved that I swapped my one and only diesel for the petrol equivalent! (Ask me again when the MultiAir unit fails, although I am assured that was confined to early models ...)
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  #145  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Well, I had to pay only £101 and it got me the half mile home in safety and comfort. What a relief, after driving my wife's bucket of bolts, aka Corsa 2001.

Harold
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  #146  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I think that has all changed now.

When I had the S-type Ford recommended Magnatec Semi-synthetic 5 w 30 oil (also recommended for all Ford petrol engines). That was a 2007 car but the recommendation dated from 2004.

My XF is supposed to use a fully synthetic Castrol oil which is not generally available to the public. I can use Shell Helix but it never needs topping up anyway.
Don't forget that we don't know the year of Harold's car. I, though, am more familiar with heavy diesels in recent times. Having checked, the current oil for diesels is a 5W/30 C3 spec, a synthetic specifically designed for diesels with particulate filters. Engines are changing so rapidly, hard to keep up since I've been retired seven years now. I was never concerned with tribology when I was at work anyway. Don't need it in the computer systems.....

However, sounds as if Harold's car is sorted now. Let's hope it stays sorted.
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Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Don't forget that we don't know the year of Harold's car.
That's because you have read only about the latest espisode.

In the clutch/flywheel episode:

"I looked this up and, for the 2L diesel, this is quite common, usually at 25,000m, twice what mine had done. Also, the 2003 ones were by far the worst. Mine? 2003, of course. I hope the replacent is not a 2003 original!"

Harold
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  #148  
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
No; I am just extremely cynical and despairing about the rip off culture of so many businesses these days. The motor industry is one of the worst offenders, but sadly is by no means alone any more.

The mantra seems to be 'shaft the customer at every opportunity, then if caught out ignore, quote terms and conditions, and if all else fails, disappear'. The internet has made things 100 times worse as so many transactions are not made face to face, and it is easy to hide behind a website and 'Response Forms' that do not work.

Alternatively you can direct dissatisfied customers to an overseas call centre, where they can speak to hand-picked operatives who speak little English (or pretend not to), and who will tell you to wait an hour before trying again.

Coming back to cars, we had an interesting experience with a low mileage, one year old Astra that we bought from one of the big national dealerships.

We took the car out for a test drive and were generally happy with it, but I noticed there was a clutch judder. We agreed to take the car if the clutch problem was fixed.

The next Saturday we went to collect the car, and were treated to the usual bullshit, with the car in the showroom surrounded by red ropes and with a red blanket over it. I was told that the clutch had been replaced, but that it would take a few miles to 'settle in'.

Everything seemed fine, but the clutch judder kept on returning to the point that the car became almost un-drivable in stop-start traffic and in multi-story car parks. I called the salesman who said he would make a note, and that it would be fixed at the next service.

The next service came. The car was now two years old, and still well within warranty, and had covered around 22,000 miles.

The mechanic reported severe clutch judder, (I had already told them that), so I asked them to fix it under warranty. Initially it seemed the work would be done, but then they came back and said that the clutch was a "wear and tear item", and was only covered to 18,000 miles. If I wanted the clutch replaced it would cost me £1,100!

"But I reported it to the Salesman." "Ahh yes; but he doesn't work here any more and there are no notes on your file"

"But what about the Evans Halshaw extended warranty that you sold me?" "I'm sorry, that only covers sudden, unexpected failures. This has been going on for some time hasn't it?"

The fall out from this went on for months with letters to and from Head Office. In the meantime a search online showed that the clutch problem was well known in several models of Astra, Corsa and others, and that there was a factory approved fix for it.

I was on the point of issuing proceedings when I heard that Evans Halshaw Vauxhall (the branch I used) had been prosecuted by Trading Standards at Middlesbrough Magistrates Court for lying to a customer, and basically selling him a car for £6,000 that should never have been on the road.

I faxed head office threatening court action and sending a copy of the newspaper report. I received a phone call within the hour apologising for the oversight and asking when I would like the work done.
Many moons ago I had a Triumph Dolomite 1850. Nice car, except you couldn't keep paint on it. I needed a part, and went to our local main dealer. I had to order it. When it came, I had a problem with what they offered me (can't remember why now). In front of me in the queue was a chap who had a three year old Jaguar 3.8. He wanted a top hose. The same spares man told him it wasn't available as a spare part. The guy went ape! "You're telling me I have to scrap a three year old car for a top hose?" Eventually, "OK, what can I do then?" Answer, "I dunno, maybe try Halfords." The guy went out seething.
Well, come the Monday morning, i decided to ring JLR Service and complain. Chap answered, and listened to my complaint. "You've come through on the internal?" "Yes, I'm at Browns Lane." "Oh well, I can tell you that we get so many complaints about XXXXXXX that we don't bother logging them any more." "So why are they still selling our cars?" "They would sell foreign ones instead." "Fine, let them mess up the foreigners' customers instead!" "Oh, you can't think like that, sir!" and rang off. XXXXXXX a few years later went bust in Coventry, making 70 sales and service staff redundant.

I became a head of department at Jaguar. You wouldn't believe the hassle I had (and I wasn't alone!) with that garage over MCP cars. But that's another story.
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
That's because you have read only about the latest espisode.

In the clutch/flywheel episode:

"I looked this up and, for the 2L diesel, this is quite common, usually at 25,000m, twice what mine had done. Also, the 2003 ones were by far the worst. Mine? 2003, of course. I hope the replacent is not a 2003 original!"

Harold
H'mm. I considered buying a 5 yr old C-Max with the 1.6 version of that engine. It had the guts of an arthritic snail, and I went for petrol instead. I understand that the 1.6 diesel has some other problems, which also get expensive around 60,000 miles. The one I looked at had done....55,000. In the event I went for a 10 month old 1.6 Zetec. Lively enough since I don't belt around any more, 125 hp, and economical (around 40 mpg). And that's a well-proven engine, except for the variable valve timing head.

I've experienced driving a diesel Corsa (we had a number of them at work) and the drive to the turbo either sheared or seized. It was fun getting that back; if I opened the throttle more than a smidgin, it pretty much died. I got back in first gear at all of 10 mph... And that car had done just 9000 miles.

I've also known someone who had an Audi A4 diesel. At 44,000 it shed some cam lobes.

Seems to me that diesels aren't worth the hassle for normal domestic motoring.
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Many moons ago I had a Triumph Dolomite 1850. Nice car, except you couldn't keep paint on it. I needed a part, and went to our local main dealer. I had to order it. When it came, I had a problem with what they offered me (can't remember why now). In front of me in the queue was a chap who had a three year old Jaguar 3.8. He wanted a top hose. The same spares man told him it wasn't available as a spare part. The guy went ape! "You're telling me I have to scrap a three year old car for a top hose?" Eventually, "OK, what can I do then?" Answer, "I dunno, maybe try Halfords." The guy went out seething.
Well, come the Monday morning, i decided to ring JLR Service and complain. Chap answered, and listened to my complaint. "You've come through on the internal?" "Yes, I'm at Browns Lane." "Oh well, I can tell you that we get so many complaints about XXXXXXX that we don't bother logging them any more." "So why are they still selling our cars?" "They would sell foreign ones instead." "Fine, let them mess up the foreigners' customers instead!" "Oh, you can't think like that, sir!" and rang off. XXXXXXX a few years later went bust in Coventry, making 70 sales and service staff redundant.

I became a head of department at Jaguar. You wouldn't believe the hassle I had (and I wasn't alone!) with that garage over MCP cars. But that's another story.
That story doesn't surprise me in the least, although I doubt the dealership would get away with it now if they were still in business.

JLR are becoming quite mercenary with dealers, just like every other manufacturer, although their sales volumes are obviously lower.

They got some bad press for taking their franchise away from RA Creamer of Knightsbridge, who had supplied Jaguar and Land Rover cars to HRH for many years. Apparently they didn't have suitable customer facilities, so HRH couldn't spend a penny in the Ladies when dropping her Jag off for a service.
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