Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 15th September 2017
shenstone's Avatar
shenstone shenstone is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,013
Thanks: 104
Thanked 257 Times in 193 Posts
Likes: 252
Liked 398 Times in 219 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
JLR are becoming quite mercenary with dealers
Some JLR dealers don't need help to be awful.. as a committed LR fan (see signature) I went out shopping for a new 4x4 of some type because my Grand Vitara which has taken us over hill and dale and many, many interesting places finally showed her age and mileage 208k and the gearbox was on its way out and a few other noises I was not happy with.

Every car dealer I went in made me incredibly welcome and could not be more attentive and helpful .... except one one!

Everywhere else a salesman had keys within moments and was able to get me on a test drive within minutes of asking for one. Not in the Land Rover dealer

We got the keys fast enough and had a sit in a 2nd hand freelander 2, but the real problems started when I said I would like to take it for a drive

"We have a procedure" we have to put you in for a finance deal before we go out ... I don't want to I said I plan for a cash purchase ... that caused problems as it was insisted on so all the answers re salary etc. go down as "no comment"

"We have a procedure" we have to appraise your car before we go out ... I don't want to I said I plan for a cash purchase and I know its only worth scrap to you ... but they still insisted on taking the pictures and asking the questions... frankly its an old car been used hard and I am sure will only be scrapped, but it still took 15 minutes

"we have a procedure" we have to do all the paperwork before we go for a drive

At about this point I lost it and spotted about 5 staff on an upper level and walked up the stairs to ask if someone could expedite as the young man serving me was new and it was not his fault at all it was after all a "procedure" he had been told to follow. I'm simply told "this area is private you will need to leave" - there was no sign so how would I have known, but I left anyway

A moment later down the stairs comes the sales manager so I said to him I was getting frustrated by the delays and his only answer .. you got it "We have a procedure that has to be followed", no apology or anything, I commented "maybe your procedure is not a good one" and he asked "do you expect me to be able to do anything about it". that was his only comment as he walked away

Having said all that about following procedure many know I work for a life sciences company and I know the importance of following procedure but I really feel for the young guy. He was as helpful as he could be but what a nightmare sales process, and what an example from his seniors in terms of poor customer service

in the Toyota, Jeep and Suzuki garages the same process that took about 45 minutes and stress took about 2 minutes with a smile

We did eventually get to go for a drive and I quite liked the car, but I coudn't face going back in there to deal with the uninterested and unhelpful sales procedure so there is one land Rover dealer that I can't recommend

Actually reflecting on it, the last time I had tried to purchase a car in there 15 years ago I remember not getting good service which is why I purchased the GV in the first place

I bought another Suzuki!

Regards
Andy
__________________
My Kit (OK I'm a hoarder...)
4/3 E500, E510, E30 + 35macro, 50macro, 7-14, 11-22, 14-45 (x2), 14-54, 40-150 (both types), 50-200, 70-300, 50-500,
m 4/3 EM1MkII + 60 macro, 12-100 Pro
FL20, FL36 x2 , FL50, cactus slaves etc.
The Boss (Mrs Shenstone) E620, EM10-II, 14-41Ez, 40-150R, 9 cap and whatever she can nick from me when she wants it

My places
http://www.shenstone.me.uk
http://landroverkaty.blogspot.com/
https://vimeo.com/shenstone
http://cardiffnaturalists.org.uk/
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to shenstone For This Useful Post:
Jim Ford (15th September 2017), KeithL (15th September 2017)
  #152  
Old 15th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Sounds like they still think they are a BL dealership.....
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 15th September 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Interesting that you should say that Andy as we had a very similar experience when buying a used Corsa for my wife's daily commute; in not just one but two garages.

In both cases the car in question was a very low mileage vehicle in pristine condition with a very good spec, but about three years old. The car we finally bought cost about £6,400 in total.

Now I realise that is a lot of money to some people, for whom finance or a bank loan would be their only option, but like you we wanted a simple cash purchase. And therein lies the problem I suspect, as salesmen and dealerships probably make more money from selling finance deals and other extras than the cars themselves.

However, they kept pushing finance, and like you, we were asked all sorts of questions about household income and expenditure (which I refused to answer); all apparently to determine whether we could afford to buy a £6,400 car. This was all before we were allowed a test drive.

I wouldn't mind but the Salesman had complimented me on my nearly new XF which we had driven onto their forecourt in, so it wasn't as if we had turned up in a banger!

Now oddly enough, the second car was purchased from a main dealer around 200 miles from home. They had no compunction about taking a £100 'holding deposit' before we had even seen the car, but we had to go through the same routine before actually test driving the car that we had put a deposit on.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 15th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

When I bought the last two cars, I didn't experience any of that from either of our local Ford dealers. Just asked if I would need finance, and I said 'no', and that was the end of it. I paid for the car with a debit card, which I thought might faze them, but no, no problem.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 15th September 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
When I bought the last two cars, I didn't experience any of that from either of our local Ford dealers. Just asked if I would need finance, and I said 'no', and that was the end of it. I paid for the car with a debit card, which I thought might faze them, but no, no problem.
I think it all depends on the targets set by Head Office. When I bought the XF they offered me three years free servicing if I took out the minimum finance package, which I think was for £6,000. The only stipulation was that I had to wait until month 7 before paying it off!

They don't mind taking debit cards as the payment is secure, and doesn't cost the dealership anything. Credit cards are another matter as the dealer typically has to pay upwards of 1.5% commission.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 15th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I think it all depends on the targets set by Head Office. When I bought the XF they offered me three years free servicing if I took out the minimum finance package, which I think was for £6,000. The only stipulation was that I had to wait until month 7 before paying it off!

They don't mind taking debit cards as the payment is secure, and doesn't cost the dealership anything. Credit cards are another matter as the dealer typically has to pay upwards of 1.5% commission.
I was surprised that the Ford dealerships (one being the main dealer) didn't try to persuade me to go for finance. They did try on the uninsured loss insurance, the Diamond Brite and something else. Par for the course!
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 15th September 2017
Otto's Avatar
Otto Otto is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,117
Thanks: 80
Thanked 205 Times in 178 Posts
Likes: 669
Liked 570 Times in 373 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I do wonder about some car dealerships. A colleague of mine once went to our local Volvo dealer to have a look at a car only to be confronted by a somewhat toffee-nosed salesman who asked whether "sir is suitable for a Volvo". He walked out. I am still awaiting an Alfa Romeo 156 brochure from what is now a former dealer in St Albans - that was when the 156 was a brand new model! I bought another Saab instead.

Fortunately Piccadilly motors in Knaresborough have been the model of good service. When I was considering swapping my diesel Giulietta for a petrol last year the salesman handed me the keys and said "take it out for a drive, see you soon". They remembered I had been a cash buyer of the diesel and didn't attempt to persuade me otherwise, and we agreed a deal very easily. I paid by debit card. The salesman asked about GAP insurance but took no for an answer without argument. I seldom have occasion to visit the showroom but if I do (and I did yesterday because of an electrical fault) they greet me by name as soon as I walk in, offer me coffee and ensure I'm satisfied with the car before I leave. I would recommend them to anyone!
__________________
Regards
Richard
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 7th September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 4,727
Thanks: 46
Thanked 644 Times in 606 Posts
Likes: 30
Liked 2,373 Times in 1,297 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I just noticed it is a week before the anniversary of the last entry. I'm sure regular readers will have missed this. (Anyone unfamiliar with the original subject might like to check on that before replying to any comments).

In brief, this is about on-board computer-controlled burning off of particles starting to block the exhaust filter.

This have been going well, with the occasional motorway drive keeping the filter acceptably clean. Too good to be true? Of course it was.

Just a reminder that my Peugeot 307 2L has yet to do 16,000 miles. I recently learned that I am one of the luck ones: only my 110 bhp model has this system.

4-5 weeks ago (aka a tankful of diesel) the VDU gave the usual warning that the filter needed to be regenerated. Normally, this comes up a few times a month, days apart, until I ensure that a regeneration takes place. Then there may be a gap of 2 months (I only do about 1,000 mpa) before we start the routine again.

Not this time. From a few seconds after I start the engine till I turn if off, it is not just a warning but it is locked in limp mode, max revs in any gear just under 3,000 rpm. Normally, anything like this is cancelled by turning the ignition of and on. No way!

I even disconnected the car battery briefly, to try and wipe the computer's memory. No change.

The "wisdom", including that on a specialist filter cleaner's website, is that the car can no longer clean the filter, as it is 75%+ blocked. It has to be an expensive specialist intervention.

Eventually, I referred it to my regular garage man. He confirmed that I have a half tank of cleaner fluid (the 5L is supposed to last 160,000m) and found an error code for an "open circuit". He referred me to a trusted car electrician who used to work for the local Lucas centre, now long defunct.

After many investigations, the electrician found that there was no open circuit and that the computer (ECU) was generating out random, faulty codes*. The ECU has now been sent away to a specialist for remedial treatment.

The electrician (also does MOT's, etc) also tried a forced regeneration of the filter and it wouldn't run, the filter being very clean.

* This would explain why my local garage (February) found a code saying that the recycling fluid reservoir was empty and the main dealer found it it be full. I believe my mechanic actually took a look!

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (7th September 2018)
  #159  
Old 7th September 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Well I am glad that was finally resolved. DPF systems seem to cause enough problems by themselves without intermittent electrical faults joining in!

Since our earlier discussions regarding DPF problems I have heard that using the wrong engine oil can create difficulties. In short the lube oil must be specified for DPF equipped vehicles and not all are.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 7th September 2018
TimP TimP is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Deepest Darkest Dorset
Posts: 1,030
Thanks: 20
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Likes: 136
Liked 365 Times in 255 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

DPFs seem to cause more troubles than they solve, especially if it’s a car doing low annual mileage, the received wisdom seems to be that anying under 10-12k miles per annum is not worth buying a diesel for. My 2013 diesel Mini was doing less than 10K (more at time of purchase though) and was fine DPF wise as it got a good thrashing both ways to and from work. It’s useage has changed dramatically now as my wife uses it for work, only doing 12-odd miles a day and I’m convinced this will eventually cause DPF issues. Never getting another damn diesel whatever the stupid government tries to foist upon us.
Don’t get me started on oil changes! 2 years between changes? Ridiculous!
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 7th September 2018
OM USer's Avatar
OM USer OM USer is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10,291
Thanks: 1,918
Thanked 1,340 Times in 1,278 Posts
Likes: 5,105
Liked 1,119 Times in 765 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

You need to use a low ash low sulphure oil with DPF engines... so they don't get blocked as quickly. Around town my engine does a regeneration every 150 miles. Every 5 or so regenerations it decides I need a sevice as the oil will be too contaminated to protect the engine (the extra diesel pumped into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke to burn off in the DPF and raise the temperature to burn the particulates to ash seeps past the piston rings). Latest theory is that when the engine is cold you should drive in sport mode to bring the temperature up more quickly.
__________________
Cameras: E-M5, E-PM2, OM40, OM4Ti
Lenses (M.Zuiko Digital): 7-14mm/F2.8, 12-40mm/F2.8, 40-150mm/F2.8+TC1.4x, 12-50mm/F3.5-6.3, 14-42mm/F3.5-5.6 EZ, 75-300mm/F4.8-6.7 Mk1, 12mm/F2, 17mm/F1.8
Lenses (OM Zuiko): 50mm/F1.2, 24mm/F2, 35mm/F2.8 shift
Lenses (OM Fit): Vivitar Series II 28-105mm/F2.8-3.8, Sigma 21-35mm/F3.4-4.2, Sigma 35-70mm/F2.8-4, Sigma 75-200mm/F2.8-3.5, Vivitar Series II 100-500mm/F5.6-8.0, Centon 500mm/F8 Mirror
If you learn something new each day then that is not a day wasted.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 7th September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 4,727
Thanks: 46
Thanked 644 Times in 606 Posts
Likes: 30
Liked 2,373 Times in 1,297 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Well I am glad that was finally resolved. DPF systems seem to cause enough problems by themselves without intermittent electrical faults joining in!

Since our earlier discussions regarding DPF problems I have heard that using the wrong engine oil can create difficulties. In short the lube oil must be specified for DPF equipped vehicles and not all are.
Thanks, Nigel.

Regarding oils, it seems that one low in SAPs (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur) are the ones and fully synthetic at that.

I forgot to mention that, during the limp mode month, I did three motorway runs, two specifically to try to break out of it.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 7th September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 4,727
Thanks: 46
Thanked 644 Times in 606 Posts
Likes: 30
Liked 2,373 Times in 1,297 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP View Post
DPFs seem to cause more troubles than they solve, especially if itís a car doing low annual mileage, the received wisdom seems to be that anying under 10-12k miles per annum is not worth buying a diesel for.
The equation is different if it has done only 4,700 miles and cost just over £2,000.

I am still well ahead on costs!

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 7th September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 4,727
Thanks: 46
Thanked 644 Times in 606 Posts
Likes: 30
Liked 2,373 Times in 1,297 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM USer View Post
Latest theory is that when the engine is cold you should drive in sport mode to bring the temperature up more quickly.
Will my dealer bolt that on for me?

Actually, I don't hang about much in any car!

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 7th September 2018
DerekW DerekW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,825
Thanks: 74
Thanked 302 Times in 237 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 434 Times in 308 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Do you all apply the same stringent ownership cost analysis to the cameras as you say we should apply to the ownership of cars?
__________________
This space for rent
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (7th September 2018)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
eBay saga E-P1 fan The lounge 25 18th January 2018 08:14 PM
Cuba 306 - Rare Peugeot Beagletorque Foto Fair 0 6th February 2016 09:45 PM
A saga turning into a farce? Zuiko Exhibitions, stock photos, professional work 43 4th September 2011 05:07 PM
Repair Saga: Month two snaarman The lounge 24 28th April 2010 08:34 AM
repair saga snaarman The lounge 38 13th April 2010 06:15 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:54 PM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger