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  #31  
Old 2nd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Once the DPF reaches a certain "clog" factor (based on back pressure I believe) it will go through a regeneration cycle ....
This is correct. Main dealers can initiate a regeneration cycle via the computer system, but the driver has no control over it, which is a pity.

There are many occasions that I have returned home, usually late at night after a long journey, to be greeted by that distinctive rubbery smell and heat when I open the car door. Why didn't it regenerate a few miles earlier on the A1M?

Maybe it is that extra bit of welly over the final few miles?

It would actually make sense if regeneration was linked to the SatNav, as that knows where the car is, its destination, and how it is likely to be driven over the next few miles.
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Old 2nd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I too have a JLR vehicle which has the ford derived Euro IV diesel.

At cold engine temperatures the DPF will clog up more quickly and this gives rise to the maxim that a diesel engine is not for motorists who do a small annual milage. In fact if you just did 1000 miles per annum but did them all on a motorway on one day then there would be no issue. The "small annual milage" is shorhand for daily short journeys where the car does not reach normal operating temperature or at least does not reach normal operating temperature for a significant part of the journey. When the vehicle is at normal operating temperature the DPF wil still clog up but nowhere near as much (possibly to an insignificant amount but of course more miles will eventually lead to more clogging up), hence the need to have a high ratio of normal temperature driving to low temperature driving.

Once the DPF reaches a certain "clog" factor (based on back pressure I believe) it will go through a regeneration cycle where (as mentioned in a previous post) diesel fuel is injected into the cylinders to be passed through to the DPF where it will ignite. In so doing it will raise the temperature inside the DPF to such an extent that it wil burn off the sooty particulates clogging the DPF allowing it to breath freely again. This only happens when the engine is at normal temperature. During DPF regeneration the engine idle speed will rise, the underside of the car will get very hot, and you will smell the burning diesel. The DPF regeneration will run until the DPF is cleared or until a set time has passed without it being cleared (to prevent continuous regeneration). If you stop the vehicle before the DPF is cleared (or it stops itself) then another regeneration will be initiated once favourable conditions in the engine are reached again. Some diesel fuel will always seep past the piston rings and contaminate the oil, causing the oil level to rise (why some people never top up to the max mark). After a certain number of regenerations the oild will become seriously contaminated and must be changed. My vehicle counts the time under regeneration and then informs me that a service is due (in fact only an oil change is due). With a service interval of about 6000 miles it is a good idea to change the oil at half time and reset the service marker. If the vehicle is requiring frequent regenerations then the oil will need to be drained and changed more often; check the oil dip stick.

If the DPF becomes seriously blocked and the regular attempts at DPF regeneration can not clear it (maybe the engine isn't reaching temperature for long enough) then a warning light should come up. The handbook states that the vehicle should then be driven for at least 20 minutes above 40mph for another regeneration to kick in. If the DPF still isn't clearing then you will get a DPF blocked (or DPF Full) message and you need to take the vehicle in for specialised servicing or DPF replacement. The stipulation of 40mph is a bit disingenuous as its not speed per se but rpm and engine load. At 70mph in sixth gear my car is barely breaking sweat at 1800rpm. If the garage is trying to clear a DPF they will inject some cleaning additive directly into the DPF and run the engine at 3500 rpm - I had this done once. Long frequent sustained motorway driving is not a panacea to regeneration issues as my daily commute used to involve 40 miles of motorway each way (at 50 to 70 mph)!

It might be advisable when you take your car in to have them check the operation of the EGR valve. This allows the re-circulation of exhaust gases back into the inlet manifold so that they can be burnt for a second time and so reduce overall emmissions. This should close during regeneration (and when the engine is cold) as the re-circulated gases keep down engine temperature as they don't actually burn very well.

Thanks. Warning lights? If those are anything to do with the apparent sensor problem, that would explain why I have seen none. I will mention the valve, although I like to think I wouldn't have to. I suspect that such a suggestion would get some response about them doing what is necessary. We will see.

Harold
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  #33  
Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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T will mention the valve, although I like to think I wouldn't have to. I suspect that such a suggestion would get some response about them doing what is necessary. We will see.
It in now in the evil clutches... And that was the response I got.

I have a theory of what they could find: Dodgy additive tank sensor interpreted by diagnostic as empty tank. Tank found to be full from when the car was originally sold.

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Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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It in now in the evil clutches... And that was the response I got.

I have a theory of what they could find: Dodgy additive tank sensor interpreted by diagnostic as empty tank. Tank found to be full from when the car was originally sold.

Harold
It still seems odd that you have not seen any warning messages at all.

Is it possible that your relative had the EGR valve and DPF 'deleted'? Some people do have this done.
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Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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It still seems odd that you have not seen any warning messages at all.
It may be from a different source but I get the Diesel Fuel Filter Blocked (or whatever) message come on at random, every few trips. It came on at the end of a motorway drive of about 50 miles at a steady 60ish.

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Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Do you hate happy endings? So boring!

We are not there yet, but it is in sight.

I had a phone call a few minutes ago.

The diagnosis had been done, and the filter is not causing problems. I will be provided with a printout which shows emissions to be within MOT limits.

Nobody knows how much additive is in the tank but it seems to be far from empty. The cleaning cycle is doing its job in the right conditions.

The bad news is that the starter motor is excessively noisy and there is a squeak from the flywheel.

I now have to collect the vehicle and speak to our local garage. I suspect that the diesel is in the oil and will ask for a total change of oil.

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Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

After a succession of diesels from 2001, we bought a petrol Seat Leon FR (wife's car actually ) new in 2014. A bit apprehensive about going back to petrol but after the stories here I am glad we did. MPG is not as good as the diesel version probably is but it cost a lot less to buy and we don't do more than about 5000 miles a year in it anyway. I make do with my push bikes and a Seat Mii three cylinder jobbie (65MPG)!
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  #38  
Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I now have to collect the vehicle and speak to our local garage. I suspect that the diesel is in the oil and will ask for a total change of oil.
The car in now booked in for free re-test on Monday, followed by a service.

I was given an omissions printout by the Peugeot dealer, which did not greatly impress our local MOT tester.

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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
...There are many occasions that I have returned home, usually late at night after a long journey, to be greeted by that distinctive rubbery smell and heat when I open the car door. Why didn't it regenerate a few miles earlier on the A1M?...
I often got a regeneration coming up the slip road off a motorway. That extra bit of grunt needed always seemed to trigger it. It would be nice to have some sort of advance warning that a regeneration is needed and initiate it when convenient.
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Old 3rd February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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I often got a regeneration coming up the slip road off a motorway. That extra bit of grunt needed always seemed to trigger it. It would be nice to have some sort of advance warning that a regeneration is needed and initiate it when convenient.
It would indeed. As I said yesterday, it would actually make sense if regeneration was linked to the SatNav, as that knows where the car is, its destination, and how it is likely to be driven over the next few miles.

Failing that, it would be handy to have the opportunity to initiate a regeneration when the car will be driven optimally for the next few miles, rather than being greeted by the smell and heat when you open the car door at journeys end.

Likewise, it would be handy for the auto stop-start system to be suspended when the indicators are switched on. I really don't want a half second delay when pulling out of a junction. However, I guess that could pose a problem on Audi and BMW cars where the indicators are never used.
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I have 2 diesels

The 1994 engine in the 1988 LR ambulance (not JLR back then) and the 2013 engine in the 2013 Suzuki

The old one doesn't have a DPF and doesn't need an emissions test (vehicles that old just have to not be putting out smoke)

Having said that it actually puts out very little and the only time I got it smoking to any great extent was driving at over 10,000ft when I got white smoke caused by oxygen starvation

TNB it was the pleasure of driving a low revving diesel that made me get my 1st diesel engine car and I echo the comments above about just loving the torque

I've not had any problems so far, but then I do 20 minutes of motorway each way every day to work and back

Hope al goes well with your Harold

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Old 5th February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Latest update:

I have just driven down the A4 to Maidenhead, onto the M4 and back to Reading. Where was I going? Nowhere. I was burning fuel at uneconomic rate and polluting the air to get nowhere.

I went for a drive to give the system every chance of a filter burn-off, should it still need one. This required driving at no less than 3,000rpm for up to 20 minutes.

Once on the (crowded) motorway, I found that 3,000 rpm required 75mph in fourth or about 60mph in third. Having joined the motorway at Maidenhead I was going to exit at Theale (ca 20miles). However there was a 50mph limit after the 329M turnoff so cut it short by about 4 miles and took the exit. So not only could I not do the run sensibly and lawfully, neither could I cover an adequate (?) distance.

It seems to me that this mechanism is grossly over-engineered. OK, so we dont want particles coming out of the tail of the exhaust pipe. So why not make a disposable/washable one to clamp inside the tail pipe? That would be a five minute job for an untrained person to deal with. (They could have one on the car and one in the wash).There would be no additional fuel consumed and, this, no additional nitrous oxides.

So, was my drive necessary? I have no idea. If so, was it successful? I have no idea. Did I have a choice? Only at a removable risk of a second MOT failure.

By the way, a quick perusal of the local free paper showed at least two main dealers offering brand new diesels.

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Old 5th February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Hi Harold,
Every car is different, but it shouldn't be necessary to drive at 3,000 RPM to regenerate the DPF.

My car is only doing about 1,350 RPM at a true 70 MPH in 8th gear, (its an automatic). By extrapolation (is must stress this point), 3,000 RPM would be on the speed limiter at 155 MPH!

Despite this I have never seen a DPF warning yet, and I promise that I rarely stray much over the 70 MPH speed limit.

You could stay in 3rd gear to maintain 3,000 RPM, but that shouldn't be necessary either. (This is sometimes known as an 'Italian tune up'.)

No; effective regeneration only requires sufficient exhaust gas temperature and gas flow. Those factors are almost independent of engine speed in a modern turbocharged diesel engine. However, it is necessary for the engine to be at normal running temperature for regeneration to take place.

If regeneration is needed, brisk acceleration should trigger it, as the process is triggered by excessive back pressure. A steady 60 MPH + on the motorway or a main road for ten miles or so should then complete the process. Climbing long, steady hills, like those on the M40 would be better still.

However, the DPF will not regenerate if it doesn't need to, (regeneration life cycles are limited), or if the engine isn't hot enough.

I do wonder whether the DPF warnings you have seen coming off of the motorway are flashing up because regeneration has failed? That would be consistent with the excessive oil level in the sump. Burnt lubrication oil finding its way into the DPF could also cause problems.

In answer to your question, I believe the DPF contains a ceramic filter, and is designed to work at high temperatures. I don't think a disposable paper filter in the tailpipe would work as well, plus there is always the chance that owners will take them out!

Finally, you will find that an indicated 75 MPH is probably only about 68 MPH true speed as measured by GPS.
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Old 5th February 2017
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

GPS speed versus indicated speed, I have found that the 70 mph on the Satnav is equivalent to 72 mph on the speedo.

Experienced this on several different makes of cars.

However YMMV
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Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

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GPS speed versus indicated speed, I have found that the 70 mph on the Satnav is equivalent to 72 mph on the speedo.

Experienced this on several different makes of cars.

However YMMV
Seemingly, an indicated 70 MPH in a Toyota is only 56 MPH true speed. And the law says they must enforce this by only driving in the overtaking lane.



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