Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

This has the potential to have a long-running story, maybe a book or film. At any rate, it is going to be an expensive production. (Serial rights copyright!).

The photographic relevance, so far anyway is zero. So maybe it will broaden your mind (and will definitely shrink my bank balance).
In June 2014 I purchased a Peugeot 307 2 litre Peugeot 307 estate. Why?

1) My Cavalier was in its 30th year and was unlikely to last much longer.

2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new (as with my Cavalier)

3) It had only 4,700 miles on the clock and the price was £2,300.

4) The wisdom from the government was that diesels were less polluting than petrol cars and would be favoured.

Not long after I started running it, I was off on a local trip when there was a “Ping” and a warning came up on the digital dashboard display “Blocked Fuel Filter” together with a little yellow diagram of an engine (in case I didn’t know what an engine was). I aborted my journey, fearing that the computer might soon stop the engine, and returned home to consult the internet.

I learned that a motorway-speed steady drive of 20+ minutes was needed for some additive in the fuel system to be brought into action and burn off any blocking residues. I dutifully complied, not being sure that I would get that far.

As the months passed, I got accustomed to these warning flashing up every week. I found that, if I kept driving, they went away. So, no need for motorway trips! Clearly, the magic fluid was doing its work.

This week, the day before the MOT, the warning came on again. I had a vague concern that this might just tip the emissions out of compliance.

I delivered my car at 8.30 am. There was no phone call from the garage that morning. As I had booked a service to follow the MOT, it seemed that all was going well. Then the call came.

Not only had it failed on emissions but they had to remove 4 litres of excess engine oil before they could work on it. A code had indicated that the additive tank for the filter cleaning was empty. My garage lacked the special tools to access the tank so I would have to take it to a Peugeot dealer.

When I collected the car, I was asked about the excess oil. I had no answer and, jokingly, suggested that the engine had pumped fuel in there.

I went home and contacted the only Peugeot dealer in town. I tried to speak to the servicing department but could only get an offer to call me back. (I was told they were having an extremely busy day). After an hour, I phoned again to see if they had forgotten me. No luck.

After a further hour, I phoned again and got through to someone who apologised, explaining that they were on man short. I described my problem and, very much to my surprise, he offered me a wide choice of times/days to book my car in, with me opting for two days later.

This was for a computer diagnosis, to cost just under £100. Depending on the outcome of that, they would then order the fluid for the additive tank.

I did some more research this morning and found that I should have seen error messages for the additive getting low and then one for it being empty. In the complete absence of these, I called back and asked them to check for a dysfunctional sensor. I also, having read horror stories* asked them to check for fuel in the engine oil.

*I have read complaints that a failed filter cleaning cycle has led to fuel being forced “into the engine”

I have seen comments on the internet about a tank refill requiring 5L at £30/L. Oh, joy!

This system has been described, in various places, as the biggest load of merde ever designed.

That is the current state of play. More news on Friday.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd February 2017
joglos joglos is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: forest of dean, glos
Posts: 414
Thanks: 7
Thanked 39 Times in 30 Posts
Likes: 6
Liked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

I was talking to a reputable car salesman the other day, he said that diesel cars after 2009 have a system that really needs it to be driven at least 9000 miles a year otherwise problems will happen like you have stated, he said they get loads in with the problem. I was looking for a car for a friend who does less miles than that, so i guess she will have to get a petrol.
Really hope yours is sorted quickly and at not too much expense.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by joglos View Post
I was talking to a reputable car salesman the other day, he said that diesel cars after 2009 have a system that really needs it to be driven at least 9000 miles a year otherwise problems will happen like you have stated, he said they get loads in with the problem. I was looking for a car for a friend who does less miles than that, so i guess she will have to get a petrol.
Really hope yours is sorted quickly and at not too much expense.
I do just over 1,000 mpa.

I was planning to drive it one holidays to mainland Europe but my wife was nervous about travel when she was put under treatment for heart problems but this year could be the year.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6th February 2017
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 769
Thanks: 33
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
Likes: 302
Liked 204 Times in 89 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
I do just over 1,000 mpa.

I was planning to drive it one holidays to mainland Europe but my wife was nervous about travel when she was put under treatment for heart problems but this year could be the year.

Harold
With such a small mileage, why not consider an electric car?

Having retired recently, my daily mileage averages 40 miles maybe. Picking up grandkids from school is most of that.

The electric car is cheap and clean to run. Limitations are range of course, and "cold" as you don't like putting the heater on!!

I also keep my RX8 for longer journeys.............

MJ
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 6th February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
With such a small mileage, why not consider an electric car?

Having retired recently, my daily mileage averages 40 miles maybe. Picking up grandkids from school is most of that.

The electric car is cheap and clean to run. Limitations are range of course, and "cold" as you don't like putting the heater on!!

I also keep my RX8 for longer journeys.............
Why not?:

1) An unwelcome expense. My current diesel has had the equivalent of about 6 months of typical (not my) mileage since new.

2) Parking one our drive is already a problem with two cars. I have to back in off a busy to very busy road. A third one would be a nightmare.

3) It's bad enough having to occasionally trickle charge a normal battery. Regular charging of an electric car is my idea of self-imposed, unacceptable inconvenience.

4) Running costs are not my prime concern

I could go on, but you get the flavour.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16th February 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 4,191
Thanks: 207
Thanked 259 Times in 221 Posts
Likes: 1,071
Liked 812 Times in 557 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
With such a small mileage, why not consider an electric car?

Having retired recently, my daily mileage averages 40 miles maybe. Picking up grandkids from school is most of that.

The electric car is cheap and clean to run. Limitations are range of course, and "cold" as you don't like putting the heater on!!

I also keep my RX8 for longer journeys.............

MJ
I don't buy the electric car concept, but I cannot argue with the economics for local travel.

How do you find it day to day?

If you charge it at (say) a motorway service station do they charge an arm and a leg as they do for petrol and diesel?

Can you charge it from a 16A socket or do you need a special charger in the garage?

Is there a problem with using a lot of heat in the winter, and does it have aircon for the summer.

I have seen a few low mileage Nissan Leaf cars for sale for about £3,000, plus £40 a month battery lease, which would be ideal for my wife, who only drives about eight miles each way to work.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd February 2017
lostp lostp is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?

I think the additive that you are referring to is Adblue
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd February 2017
Olybirder Olybirder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,447
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 768 Times in 610 Posts
Likes: 1,007
Liked 1,429 Times in 512 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostp View Post
Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?
As it cost £2,300 I suspect it was second hand.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd February 2017
Olybirder Olybirder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,447
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 768 Times in 610 Posts
Likes: 1,007
Liked 1,429 Times in 512 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

When I bought my present car I decided to get a petrol powered model, despite having had a diesel before, as I only drive about 7,000 miles a year now. I had read too many horror stories about DPF problems arising from low mileage use. My previous diesel was too old to have a DPF, so the mileage wasn't an issue.

I prefer the quicker warm up time of the petrol car but miss the torque and slightly better mpg of the diesel.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olybirder View Post
As it cost £2,300 I suspect it was second hand.

Ron
"2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new "

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2nd February 2017
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 2,895
Thanks: 320
Thanked 604 Times in 475 Posts
Likes: 30
Liked 2,234 Times in 807 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

The additive is not Adblu, but something called Eolys. Adblu is basically Urea solution and is used as part of a selective reduction catalytic converter process - which is designed to reduce NOx levels by turning them back to N2. Adblu is injected into the cat, not the engine. Eolys OTOH is designed to reduced particulates by improving combustion in the cylinder so it's added to the fuel each time you fill up.

If the Eolys is depleted, then you'll clog up your DPF which will need long runs to clear it and in the longer term probably force an early replacement. None of this should cause fuel to get into the engine oil - that's a much more serious issue.
__________________
Paul
E-M1, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
The additive is not Adblu, but something called Eolys. Adblu is basically Urea solution and is used as part of a selective reduction catalytic converter process - which is designed to reduce NOx levels by turning them back to N2. Adblu is injected into the cat, not the engine. Eolys OTOH is designed to reduced particulates by improving combustion in the cylinder so it's added to the fuel each time you fill up.

If the Eolys is depleted, then you'll clog up your DPF which will need long runs to clear it and in the longer term probably force an early replacement. None of this should cause fuel to get into the engine oil - that's a much more serious issue.
The service department man I spoke to seemed to think that which additive it was for that model was far from obvious but that may have been misleading.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostp View Post
Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?

I think the additive that you are referring to is Adblue
2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new "

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2nd February 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 4,191
Thanks: 207
Thanked 259 Times in 221 Posts
Likes: 1,071
Liked 812 Times in 557 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Hmmm.

JLR had problems with some earlier diesel engines (specifically the 2.7 litre V6) when these were first fitted with a DPF system. The engine and DPF system was developed by Ford in conjunction with Jaguar and Land Rover (then owned by Ford), Citroen, Peugeot and others.

The DPF system is of course designed to remove particulate matter from the exhaust gasses. When this become full it is effectively 'regenerated' by injecting diesel fuel oil during the exhaust stroke which in turn burns the sooty deposits that have collected in the DPF. Add Blue is a sticky material which improves the efficiency of the filtration process.

The DPF system works well, but the DPF needs to regenerate at a reasonable speed, not in nose to tail traffic. There have also been numerous reported problems where 'failed regenerations' result in fuel oil finding its way into the crankcase. This is what seems to have happened in your case. The main worry is that the fuel oil (diesel) will have diluted the lubrication oil in the crank case, resulting in accelerated wear.

I had several free oil changes on JLR's account because the oil level had risen above the Maximum mark!

JLR overcame the problem by updating software in the engine's ECU, although the advice to this day is not to fill the engine to the maximum mark to allow space for some fuel oil.

I only cover about 6,000 miles per year in my car, but these are mainly long journeys. I have never seen a DPF warning yet.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2nd February 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 35
Thanked 339 Times in 321 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 927 Times in 526 Posts
Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Hmmm.

JLR had problems with some earlier diesel engines (specifically the 2.7 litre V6) when these were first fitted with a DPF system. The engine and DPF system was developed by Ford in conjunction with Jaguar and Land Rover (then owned by Ford), Citroen, Peugeot and others.

The DPF system is of course designed to remove particulate matter from the exhaust gasses. When this become full it is effectively 'regenerated' by injecting diesel fuel oil during the exhaust stroke which in turn burns the sooty deposits that have collected in the DPF. Add Blue is a sticky material which improves the efficiency of the filtration process.

The DPF system works well, but the DPF needs to regenerate at a reasonable speed, not in nose to tail traffic. There have also been numerous reported problems where 'failed regenerations' result in fuel oil finding its way into the crankcase. This is what seems to have happened in your case. The main worry is that the fuel oil (diesel) will have diluted the lubrication oil in the crank case, resulting in accelerated wear.

I had several free oil changes on JLR's account because the oil level had risen above the Maximum mark!

JLR overcame the problem by updating software in the engine's ECU, although the advice to this day is not to fill the engine to the maximum mark to allow space for some fuel oil.

I only cover about 6,000 miles per year in my car, but these are mainly long journeys. I have never seen a DPF warning yet.
Thanks Nigel.

I almost never travel in nose to tail traffic. About half my journeys would be at 30mph and half at 50-60mph. None of there are long. In the warmer months I would have a few longer (10 miles+EW) trips at the higher speeds.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cuba 306 - Rare Peugeot Beagletorque Foto Fair 0 6th February 2016 08:45 PM
A saga turning into a farce? Zuiko Exhibitions, stock photos, professional work 43 4th September 2011 05:07 PM
Repair Saga: Month two snaarman The lounge 24 28th April 2010 08:34 AM
repair saga snaarman The lounge 38 13th April 2010 06:15 PM
eBay saga E-P1 fan The lounge 14 27th October 2008 08:13 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:09 PM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2015, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger