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Nostalgia Nexus - early and pre-digital discussion Want to discuss the really early days of digital and even film - here is the place for you.

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  #106  
Old 1st May 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

Here we go, cat amongst pigeons...

Does film make you a better photographer? (well, someone had to ask )

This is worth reading: https://fstoppers.com/education/why-...ould-too-30630

Essentially the argument is this: shooting film for a while will make you a more considerd digital photographer.
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  #107  
Old 2nd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Here we go, cat amongst pigeons...

Does film make you a better photographer? (well, someone had to ask )

This is worth reading: https://fstoppers.com/education/why-...ould-too-30630

Essentially the argument is this: shooting film for a while will make you a more considerd digital photographer.
Yes it does.
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  #108  
Old 2nd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

And saves a fortune on the effects of GAS, the digital affliction affecting many photographers, including me.

I'm expecting my 'new' (to me) M6 to turn up tomorrow and I can hardly wait to put the first roll through it, with no chimping!

I completely understand why photo schools teach using film with manual cameras, with AE being discouraged. No one can expect to learn the basics with a digital camera set to P mode.
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  #109  
Old 2nd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

I think GAS gets worse, though. I keep acquiring gear that either costs nothing or very little! But it does save on cost.

The only thing I disagree with in that article is the assumption that everyone shoots digital as well as film. No they don't! I haven't shot digital for over three years now, apart from the occasional photo that I have to take for work. My daughter's wedding, son's wedding, holiday in Portugal last year, all shot on film, didn't even have a digital camera with me. I don't know whether it's made me a better photographer but I'm definitely much happier.
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  #110  
Old 3rd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

I'm guessing 99% of the images seen on the 'net would not be photographed if the 'artist' had to pay per image. With digital there's a temptation of 'taking' photographs instead of 'making' photographs, the results looking more like 'I saw this in front of my lens, hope you enjoy'.
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  #111  
Old 3rd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I'm guessing 99% of the images seen on the 'net would not be photographed if the 'artist' had to pay per image. With digital there's a temptation of 'taking' photographs instead of 'making' photographs, the results looking more like 'I saw this in front of my lens, hope you enjoy'.
Well, looking at 99% of the images on social meeeja I would say that from a photographic standpoint most would probably have been better not taken!

The fact is, digital has given us instant gratification, which is what everyone seems to crave nowadays. Never mind cost per image, how many people would bother to develop and scan films for uploading to the net?

Better quality digital cameras (as opposed to most mobile phones have also given us pin-sharp, clinically clean images with bright, vibrant colours which grab our attention - rather like that HiFi system that sounds brilliant in the shop, but quickly becomes wearing at home.

But then maybe, just maybe, if I were to buy some expensive loudspeaker cables, and use a mains filter, it would sound just perfect.
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  #112  
Old 3rd May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Here we go, cat amongst pigeons...

Does film make you a better photographer? (well, someone had to ask )

This is worth reading: https://fstoppers.com/education/why-...ould-too-30630

Essentially the argument is this: shooting film for a while will make you a more considerd digital photographer.
No it doesn't, a good photographer will get the image whatever the media.
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  #113  
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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No it doesn't, a good photographer will get the image whatever the media.
The only difference being that the photographer shooting film will get the shot in one or two exposures.

The photographer shooting digital will approach the subject like a machine gun, and will fire off several hundred exposures in the hope of getting one good one.
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  #114  
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
The only difference being that the photographer shooting film will get the shot in one or two exposures.

The photographer shooting digital will approach the subject like a machine gun, and will fire off several hundred exposures in the hope of getting one good one.
I actually take less shots with digital no longer needing to make in camera dupes.
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
The only difference being that the photographer shooting film will get the shot in one or two exposures.

The photographer shooting digital will approach the subject like a machine gun, and will fire off several hundred exposures in the hope of getting one good one.
And then slaving over the computer screen deciding if a) is better than b), or perhaps c) is better, or perhaps n+99 in the sequence is the best after all. I know I've done it.
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  #116  
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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No it doesn't, a good photographer will get the image whatever the media.
I'm sure your right, but part of the problem is there aren't that many photographers about who allow their images to hibernate before reviewing and editing. Digital provides instant gratification and many confuse emotional attachment with picture quality.
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  #117  
Old 5th May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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I actually take less shots with digital no longer needing to make in camera dupes.
That is a fair point.

I find that I take fewer shots with my EM1 than I did with either my E5 or EM5 cameras. I think this is because the EM1 and its better EVF viewfinder system give me greater confidence that I have the shot that I want and need.

However, I invariably find that the first shot is the best, as that is the image that I put most thought and effort in to - just as I do when using film. The remainder are simply 'insurance' shots that I probably wouldn't have taken if I was using a film camera, and certainly not medium format.
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  #118  
Old 5th May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

My first day out yesterday 'shooting' film, I can tell you I thought long and hard before firing the shutter! In the course of the day I took 5 frames. If I'd been using one of my many (far too many) digital cameras I may have taken 50 or more.
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

Testing my understanding regarding 'exposing for the shadows' as recommended for negative film:

Using a spot meter, lets say I meter off what I deduce to be zone III, and knowing the light meter will indicate an EV value based on what it assumes to be 18% reflectance, should I expose -2 stops from the light meter's suggestion, or should I overexpose the shadows by selecting - 1 stop from what the light meter indicated?
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  #120  
Old 5th May 2017
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Re: The lure of the uncomplicated camera

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post

However, I invariably find that the first shot is the best, as that is the image that I put most thought and effort in to - just as I do when using film. The remainder are simply 'insurance' shots that I probably wouldn't have taken if I was using a film camera, and certainly not medium format.
For me, if I'm working a subject, I find it's usually the first one or two, or the last one or two. I suppose those represent either the first vision that struck and attracted me, or else the one that came to me after a while studying the subject.

One of our senior club members (Davis Steel, who shoots Olympus exclusively these days) emphasises the value of working the subject, and I must say I think he's right.
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