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Old 3rd October 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Colman's leaving Norwich

Announced on the local news tonight, Britvic, which shares the Norwich site with Colman's Mustard works, is leaving the city, and this makes it almost certain that Colman's will leave too. A dreadful shock to their employees and the city.

Norfolk has invested hugely in dualling the A11, building the Northern Distributor Road, and the A47 Southern Bypass; all of these have caused environmental damage, increased traffic dramatically, and generally upset local people. There are huge housing developments; around Norwich they will double its population.

When a major employer says that it is going to leave because of the geography, and the cost of transport for its products, one can only wonder as to the logic of what has been done, and is in process of being done. How many more firms will follow?

There is at least one clear implication. All the housebuilding, designed to attract people to the area, will actually be mostly solely for commuters, to Cambridge and London. That also means that those incomers will probably contribute not a lot to the local economy, and they will certainly contribute to the overcrowded trains and roads.

We are assured by governments that they know what they are doing. But just what do they think they ARE doing?
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Old 4th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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But just what do they think they ARE doing?
They are maximising their attractiveness to as many of the voting population they can get their hands on over a 4-5 year cycle.

No more and no less: medium and long-term planning, and genuine leadership, are no longer on offer compared to the grubby race for votes.
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Old 4th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

Norfolk is a disaster, the end of the endless road to nowhere. At least with the arrival of real roads then business can arrive as well as depart. Up until now Norwich was a communication trap.
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Old 4th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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Norfolk is a disaster, the end of the endless road to nowhere. At least with the arrival of real roads then business can arrive as well as depart. Up until now Norwich was a communication trap.
Since the roads have been upgraded, and rail links improved, Norwich has been doing well; unemployment has been below the national average. But this will have quite an impact: it isn't just the businesses going, but the impact on their local suppliers.

We've had the same sort of thing with solar farms. One was built on the bank of a Broad, in an area of great concern for wildlife. Why will tourists want to come to see huge solar farms?
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Old 4th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

I cannot disagree with the comments about politicians but this has nothing to do with politics.

The mustard factory is presumably moving away from Norwich to save money, and possibly so that the site can be sold for lucrative redevelopment. Are they going abroad I wonder, or consolidating manufacturing on another site in the UK?

However, what the bean counters still don't realise is that exporting jobs in this way will ultimately hit sales.

At one time M&S manufactured most of its products in the UK, but the bean counters decided to move manufacturing overseas to cut costs. What they didn't think about was that the people working on British production lines spent money on British high streets, keeping M&S and its competitors alive.

Outsourcing to China or Bangladesh may cut costs in the short term, but how many Chinese and Bangladeshi citizens will be spending their hard earned money on British high streets?

Has this made M&S more successful, or are they still struggling? Multiply this effect by all of the other businesses that have done the same and you can see why our economy has been affected in the way it has.

Once again it is a case of looking no further than this quarter's results.
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Old 5th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I cannot disagree with the comments about politicians but this has nothing to do with politics.

The mustard factory is presumably moving away from Norwich to save money, and possibly so that the site can be sold for lucrative redevelopment. Are they going abroad I wonder, or consolidating manufacturing on another site in the UK?

However, what the bean counters still don't realise is that exporting jobs in this way will ultimately hit sales.

At one time M&S manufactured most of its products in the UK, but the bean counters decided to move manufacturing overseas to cut costs. What they didn't think about was that the people working on British production lines spent money on British high streets, keeping M&S and its competitors alive.

Outsourcing to China or Bangladesh may cut costs in the short term, but how many Chinese and Bangladeshi citizens will be spending their hard earned money on British high streets?

Has this made M&S more successful, or are they still struggling? Multiply this effect by all of the other businesses that have done the same and you can see why our economy has been affected in the way it has.

Once again it is a case of looking no further than this quarter's results.
Sorry, Nigel, but you're missing my point. There has been a shed load of money invested in improving the infrastructure, on the basis that more industry would be coming to Norwich, which will also be necessary if the housing being built is to have occupants employed locally. Now, two important employers are LEAVING the city (well, one of the Colman family is trying to get a petition going to reverse the decision). That raises questions surely about the soundness of the decisions involved in building new roads, dueling the A11, and building thousands of new houses (ruining much of the local environment in the process!)

Surely, you don't spend all that money without a proper commitment from the industry already there before trying to improve all that infrastructure, if you have any common sense?
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Old 5th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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Sorry, Nigel, but you're missing my point. There has been a shed load of money invested in improving the infrastructure, on the basis that more industry would be coming to Norwich, which will also be necessary if the housing being built is to have occupants employed locally.

Surely, you don't spend all that money without a proper commitment from the industry already there before trying to improve all that infrastructure, if you have any common sense?
With respect I am not missing the point at all.

Business doesn't do 'commitment' or 'loyalty' any more. Those attributes went out of the window in the 1970's if not before.

Business is only interested in this month's, or at best this quarter's results. Anyone who sacrifices 1% this quarter to gain 20% next year is likely to be sacked! (Another grubby American import.)

The fact that money has been spent means nothing. I have known many sites where businesses have spent literally millions of THEIR OWN money on modernising and improvements, only for the site to be closed down a few months later.

Government money is fair game. There have been numerous new manufacturing sites set up on green fields with government money here in the north east over the years, including brand new Samsung and Siemens factories, which were 'repurposed' within a short time of opening.

I believe the government did try to recover money from both Samsung and Siemens, but I have no idea whether they were successful.

Equally, large housing estates were set up around the country to service our old heavy industries. The industries have long disappeared but the housing estates remain, and with their current lack of purpose are a source of many social problems, including lack of mobility of these who previously worked in the industries concerned.
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Old 6th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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Equally, large housing estates were set up around the country to service our old heavy industries. The industries have long disappeared but the housing estates remain, and with their current lack of purpose are a source of many social problems, including lack of mobility of these who previously worked in the industries concerned.
Well, yes; and local government has promoted Norwich as a place to move your business to. Two large local employers, been there for more than 2 centuries, leaving because, after all the expenditure on infrastructure, consider it too much out on a limb, is hardly going to attract other times here!

I just hope that we don't have the same problem with the housing estates.
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Old 6th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

On the subject of new housing estates, we have had dozens of private estates appear in the last couple of years. The builders build the houses which all seem to sell but nothing appears to be done to the infrastructure surrounding them. They connect to existing sewers and drainage systems installed many year ago, use existing water mains and power. There are no new schools, shops, doctors, hospitals etc. to support the massive increase in local population. This seems to be an ongoing scenario year after year. The only new supporting infrastructure seems to be a new Asda or Aldi or Tesco which also seem to appear as frequently as the housing estates.

Surely at some point the entire sewage, drainage, water and power systems will have to be enlarged to support the increase in population but there seems to be no signs or mention of that happening. No doubt this scenario is repeated in most areas across the country.

Why anyone wants to buy one of those 400k matchbox houses where you have to paint yours a different colour to all the rest so you can find it beats me anyway. The amazing thing is, they all seem to sell even before the building work is completed and this is in an area with virtually no industry, dozens of empty newly built industrial and commercial units a closed derelict airport and little hope for any increase in commerce.

Maybe I need to move down Souf !!

John
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Old 7th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
On the subject of new housing estates, we have had dozens of private estates appear in the last couple of years. The builders build the houses which all seem to sell but nothing appears to be done to the infrastructure surrounding them. They connect to existing sewers and drainage systems installed many year ago, use existing water mains and power. There are no new schools, shops, doctors, hospitals etc. to support the massive increase in local population. This seems to be an ongoing scenario year after year. The only new supporting infrastructure seems to be a new Asda or Aldi or Tesco which also seem to appear as frequently as the housing estates.

Surely at some point the entire sewage, drainage, water and power systems will have to be enlarged to support the increase in population but there seems to be no signs or mention of that happening. No doubt this scenario is repeated in most areas across the country.

Why anyone wants to buy one of those 400k matchbox houses where you have to paint yours a different colour to all the rest so you can find it beats me anyway. The amazing thing is, they all seem to sell even before the building work is completed and this is in an area with virtually no industry, dozens of empty newly built industrial and commercial units a closed derelict airport and little hope for any increase in commerce.

Maybe I need to move down Souf !!

John
We have exactly the same problem here, John. We have lost two GPs from our local surgery (retirement), not been replaced, yet the town has increased dramatically in size, and there are some 3000 more houses under construction at the moment. As you say, the road system is virtually unchanged, the sewers, electricity supply, water supply (already we are extracting too much water form the Broads, causing problems), schools,dentists - they've been a problem for years - and government, local or national seemingly doesn't give a tuppenny damn.

In the South Norfolk town of Diss, in the local paper today, is a piece about one of its biggest employers threatening to move out, because its employees are having severe problems getting to and from work, due to the lack of change to the road network in its vicinity. Employers have moved to Diss, all close together, in an area served by one major road, Victoria Road, which was overloaded BEFORE they moved in. Now, it's a nightmare. With council budget cuts, they aren't likely to help, and the national government isn't interested. There is a big meeting of interested parties this week to see if anything can be done.

This, frankly, is no way to run a country.
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Old 7th October 2017
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Re: Colman's leaving Norwich

It is the same in the west country ... someone told me that some of our deprived residents have to walk 200 yards to a supermarket and probably two miles to a school, GP or shop.

I made that up, but you get the point
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