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Converters, adapters and extension tubes All those lens accessories that get in between the lens and the camera.

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  #16  
Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Superb shots there Katran, particularly the BIF shots and a good summary or your experience with the EC-20 and 50-200.
I think there must be some degree of sample variation when these two are used together because I certainly didn't find it necessary to stop down to f/9 for acceptable sharpness.

A couple of examples 400mm at f/7.1:-



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  #17  
Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

@ Greytop

Thank you ! Your images are nice too.

We have to define what does it means sharp.

1. For me an very small picture (800 x 600) does not say anything about sharpness. (look at your pictures at 100% - original 12 Mp resolution - to check if is sharp or soft).

2. Pictures with subjects 1-2 meters far away are not relevant for sharpness. Any lens is sharp if you shoot so close.
Try to shoot subjects wich are 20-30 meters away ! The result will be much different.

3. Do you have the SWD version of 50-200 ? I suspect the SWD version to be sharper with a fraction compared with 50-200 I.
That fraction is dificult to notice when using 50-200 alone. Maybe with EC20 mounted the fraction makes a big diference.
This is just a guess. I never tested this seriously.

Regarding sharpness, shooting with EC-20 + 50-200 at 400 mm, i could NOT get sharp enough pictures at 100%.
If I resize the picture at 5-6 Mp and apply sharpness on the picture, than it looks ok.

50-200 alone is sharp when you look at 100%.
50-200 + ec-14 is sharp at 100%.
50-200 + ec-20 is sharp only when you look at 70%, eventually the subject must be close (less than 15 meters).

The pictures I posted were 3-5 Mp crops from 12 Mp, and then resized to 2 Mp (1600x1200).
The subject was at 10...15 meters away.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

How about a little further away at around 100%
Again wide open f/7.1 @ 400mm

This one with the OM-D EM-5


This one with my now sold (along with all my 4/3rds kit) E-5


There are few other examples in my gallery.

My 50-200 was the SWD version and it worked extremely well with my EC-20, I agree the EC-14 is better (also owned one) but in the case of the examples I had it was only marginal.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Looks good but making sharp pictures with the moon is easy .
I hope I am not looking to negativist.

Good moon shots I made even with an 7 Mp old compact camera - SP-550 UZ + TCON - 17 :

THE MOON / LUNA by Fraton, on Flickr

Yes, this is made with an compact camera. Picture is not good as yours, but close to what you made with E-M5 and E-5.
This was just an 2007 compact camera, with 1/2.5'' sensor and only 7 Mp.

I think we cannot make conclusions by analysing 2-3 pictures.
We can take conclusions only after making at least a few thousands of pictures with 50-200 + EC-20.
I think I made 2000-3000 pics with this combo (50-200+ec-20).
Everything I wrote is personal impression.

Can I ask for 5...10 pictures with birds at 100% ? Do you have ?
Preferable birds shoot from minimum 10 meters away (ideal 15-20 meters).

I can post a lot of pictures at 100%, but none is really sharp at 100% and 400mm.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

OK I guess we'll have to agree to differ
I still maintain that sample variation of the two matching optics (or not so well matchIng) could be at the bottom of your experience.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

But you did not answered yet : do you have the SWD version of the 50-200 lens ?
Because this could explain some differences.

The differences can given also by personal preferences. Not all people are looking at 100%.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by katran View Post
But you did not answered yet : do you have the SWD version of the 50-200 lens ?
Because this could explain some differences.

The differences can given also by personal preferences. Not all people are looking at 100%.
Yes my 50-200 was the SWD version, it's now owned by another forum member along with my EC-20.
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  #23  
Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Ok.
It can be that 50-200 swd performs better when teleconverter is attached.
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  #24  
Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Hi Katran,

Since I was the one who raised this thread initially I think I ought to comment.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I had a look at your photos on Flickr and they are really good! I think you have done very well, bringing great results out of the EC20/50-200 combo. You results exceed what I personally have been able to achieve myself.

I very much share your experience regarding the EC20 used as companion to the 50-200.
- Need to step down for sharpness
- Some CA is introduced (not much, but still…)
- Need good light / need support

My qualified guess is that the side effect of 2X TC make the limitations of the optics noticeable. (TC are magnifying not only the picture by 2X but also the optical imperfections of the lens. When pushing the zoom 4X and then adding 2X the imperfections are magnified totally 8X). From what people are writing e.g. on this forum the EC20 works great with e.g. the 300 f/2.8, which is rated SHG, highest optical quality our money can buy (and also zoom impact is N/A). Another example to illustrate this is using the EC14 with the cheap 70-300, results are not that great, even when stopping down.

To conclude I carry the EC20 with me as a travel, lightweight alternative to heavier lenses and be able to take pictures of distant birds. But I am often hesitant to use it for the reasons above and the results usually end up not that great. I would usually use the EC14, or 50-200 As Is.

I will dig out some 100% crop samples for you to have a look at.

Regards
Tord



PS SWD or non SWD does not matter, as far as I have read on this forum the glass is same, only the AF system differ.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

I know both versions of the 50-200 are supposed to be optically the same but my sample of the SWD is significantly better than the copy of the original version I owned. I didn't get an EC-14 until I'd been using the SWD version for a while.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

It might be an old topic but I thank you for sharing your experiences Katran and Tord.

I have not found the EC 20 with the 50-200SWD to be particularly good, but that probably has more to do with my expectations, efl 800mm that should do it, wrong. Most of time it is because I have tried to use it in not so good light.
Some examples of 100% crop full frame in gallery.






The full frame are more acceptable but at 100% it really shows the softness.

Where there is a use for the combo which does not appear to have been discussed is in close up photography when you can also use flash. It allows you to get very close to the limit of the lens but needs the apperture to be small.

Example again 100% crop full frame in gallery.



I think the debate is more about do you get the same result with an EC14 and cropping.
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Old 11th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

I totally agree with most of your points. F9 is the best aperture with this combination. As my E3 doesn't have video capability I cannot comment on what you say but this could be useful for some. Your images are superb but I do notice that you are using the E5 which seems to give generally sharper pictures than the E3. Maybe this is what I need as I have never been truly happy with my results........
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  #28  
Old 12th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

I don't have many BIF at a distance with this combo (partly because I no-longer have it ).
Anyway did a little hunting around and found this Red Kite from June 2011.
The sky is blown unfortunately but otherwise it's at 400mm and wide open with the E-5, 50-200 SWD and EC-20.

From RAW with CaptureOne Pro 7, stock settings from a sharpening point of view (already quite a close crop).


100% crop
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Old 12th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

Sorry I haven't anything to add except say that I found this a very interesting and informative thread with some excellent images. Nicely done guys.
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Old 14th January 2013
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Re: EC-20 and 50-200 SWD

@Greytop
The BIF looks nice.


@Benvendeta
Yes, probably E-5 is more sharp than E-3.
I did not had E-3, but had E-520.
E-5 was a huge improvment over E-520.

@TORDAN58, @BIRDBOD
Your comments and samples are interesting. Thank you !

EC20 clearly affects the sharpness but in the same time is a real pleasure to have an 100-400 mm.
It is an very comfortable focal length, long enough for any subject. You never feel the subject is too far away.

A few people wrote here that there is no optical difference between 50-200 MK1 and 50-200 SWD. It must be a difference, because 50-200 SWD has a bigger lens-diameter. Even the lens-hood is bigger for the SWD version.

In some cases, I also noticed that this combo misses the focus (there is a bit FF or BF), especially when the light is poor. In this cases I used live-view (CDAF) and the combo focused perfect.

This is one of the last videos I made using 50-200 + EC-20.
In video, the resolution is so good that I even cropped some parts and up-scaled to HD.
The first part (first 30 seconds) is a 60-70% crop from the original video up-scaled to HD.



Other videos I made recently with EC20 + 50-200. Most of the parts are cropped. I like to do cropping for composition.


For editing I am using Adobe After Effects.
Ussually I do :
-stabilize movie;
-crop for adjusting the composition;
-upscale to HD (original resolution of the video);
-apply sharpen and unsharp mask to compensate the loosing of resolution;
-if it is need it : saturation, adjust "shadow&highlights", contrast, brightness.
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