Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Micro Four Thirds > Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus OM-D E-M1 The first Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Took the plunge

I went out this morning to Wex. Came back minus my M5, and plus an M1 Mk 1. Got a good deal on the trade-in, and the M1 is immaculate, just 4200 frames.

First impressions are that I prefer the handling and controls on the M1. Made me think about ergonomics. When we all used film cameras, weren't things so much simpler? You didn't have to worry about sensor behaviour, dynamic range, anti-aliasing etc; you could be certain that so long as the body was functioning correctly, the shutter speeds were as depicted; the lens was what it claimed to be, and price dictated sharpness and definition. Then you just bought whatever film you found worked well for you. Tri-X Pan, Ektachrome, Perutz, Ferrania, all did what they said on the box. If you bought 5 boxes of, say, Ektachrome 64, you knew they would all behave the same, and you knew what that behaviour would be - colour bias, speed, reciprocity, etc..

Now there is so much more to think about and take into consideration - and much of it is hidden in menus (yes, not just on Olys).

I wonder if it has something to do with the resurgence of not just film, but also vinyl - Sony has just opened a new pressing plant! The same with cars; the more widgets, bells and whistles, the more many of us hark back to the days of cars that were really fun: MGs, Morgans, XK120s, even, dare I say it, Moggie Minors! You could see what you were getting, and knew what it would do.

OMG, I must be getting old.......
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
bassman (27th September 2017), Greytop (27th September 2017), griffljg (27th September 2017), MJ224 (27th September 2017), Naughty Nigel (2nd October 2017), OM USer (30th September 2017), RobEW (30th September 2017), Ross the fiddler (27th September 2017), skids (27th September 2017), The Technician (27th September 2017)
  #2  
Old 27th September 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Chemical sensors (apart from suitably doped silicon I mean) generally have a fantastic dynamic range, tolerating a reasonable degree of under and over exposure. Part of the fun is being able to push (and pull) compensating for EI by altering development times. What's more, we can appear to bend light in circumstances by interaction with the anti-halation layer.

There's an awful lot to commend the use of film and a hybrid workflow. The list is too long, but for starters obsolescence becomes obsolete, film provides a tangible record, shooting film prevents chimping... Long live film. Just wish I had found my second breath a lot sooner.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Chemical sensors (apart from suitably doped silicon I mean) generally have a fantastic dynamic range, tolerating a reasonable degree of under and over exposure. Part of the fun is being able to push (and pull) compensating for EI by altering development times. What's more, we can appear to bend light in circumstances by interaction with the anti-halation layer.

There's an awful lot to commend the use of film and a hybrid workflow. The list is too long, but for starters obsolescence becomes obsolete, film provides a tangible record, shooting film prevents chimping... Long live film. Just wish I had found my second breath a lot sooner.
Yes, agreed, but it's hard for most people to go back. Would you want to go back to 405 line TV in monochrome? I wouldn't.

Having said that, I have a 1972 electronic organ, which is transistorised. It has a fault - and did have two others. It is hugely complex, and poorly engineered and laid out. BUT IT IS REPAIRABLE! More modern ones used LSI hybrid chips, which were custom designed; if they go phut - and they do! - the instrument is almost certainly dead. Later still, and we're talking custom chips, which are more reliable, but can still fail, with similar results. The latest organs use micro-computers, with each function on a plug-in card; the cards are replaceable. i like my old Conn theatre organ; it has a classic horseshoe console, very conventional, and is easy and satisfying to play. Modern ones are programmed like the computers that they are; to me, that is not the way to go, a misuse of technology.

I spent my working life as an innovator; without innovation, pollution form cars, for example, would be horrendous today. The advances in technology that made engines cleaner, cars safer, more economical are unquestionably a good thing. But do I need a touch screen with navigation, music control, phone control? Not really. It registered low tyre pressure last weekend. A tyre had partly deflated due probably to clipping a kerb a couple of weeks before; great safety feature. But then I had to consult the handbook to figure out how to clear the warning, after reflating the tyres! It should have cleared itself as soon as pressure was correct again.

I think technology is out there looking for problems to solve, whereas it should be the other way around. But, hey, that's progress! Who are we to deny progress....?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (2nd October 2017)
  #4  
Old 27th September 2017
CJJE's Avatar
CJJE CJJE is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 449
Thanks: 43
Thanked 97 Times in 57 Posts
Likes: 5
Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

On the other hand, when you're moving in and out of dimly lit buildings - think NT properties or churches - with a digital camera you never have to worry about how fast a film to use! You just tweak the ISO setting to suit the light levels and let the camera use the best exposure values

Chris
__________________
Chris

Black OM-D E-M1 MkII, Silver PEN-F, Black Lumix GX7, and too many lenses!
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
iso (27th September 2017), KeithL (13th October 2017), Naughty Nigel (2nd October 2017)
  #5  
Old 27th September 2017
Bikie John's Avatar
Bikie John Bikie John is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wessex
Posts: 3,889
Thanks: 186
Thanked 639 Times in 567 Posts
Likes: 471
Liked 712 Times in 478 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

It's all swings and roundabouts. For example, a significant part of the fantastic dynamic range of film comes from the fact that the image density tails off at the ends - the toe and shoulder of the curve. This means that the tonal gradients at the end are different from in the middle. The effects may be good, they may be bad, they may be neutral, they may allow you to do different creative stuff. It all depends on what you want to do and how skilled you are in handling it. It just means that it behaves differently from a digital sensor.

For the stuff I do, I reckon that for the past small number of years digital has been giving better results than I would ever have got from film, particularly for action in low light. I do miss the magic of playing in the darkroom to some extent but very much doubt that I would ever have developed the skills to do stuff chemically that I can do in PS or Lightroom.

Horses for courses. And we are lucky that these days we have a lot of horses to choose from.

John
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
iso (27th September 2017)
  #6  
Old 27th September 2017
iso iso is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,884
Thanks: 234
Thanked 132 Times in 127 Posts
Likes: 782
Liked 233 Times in 201 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Well I do think back to an AD of the '60's - If you want to (shoot) a black cat in a coal cellar get a Pentax Spotmatic
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
KeithL (30th September 2017)
  #7  
Old 27th September 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by iso View Post
Well I do think back to an AD of the '60's - If you want to (shoot) a black cat in a coal cellar get a Pentax Spotmatic
Glad to hear you know how to interpret a 'grey' meter; you're a member of the minority group.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
KeithL (30th September 2017)
  #8  
Old 30th September 2017
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1,983
Thanks: 160
Thanked 73 Times in 67 Posts
Likes: 1,164
Liked 184 Times in 125 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

To go back to @KeithL's point about ergonomics, it is a very valid point. Older cameras (and cars etc) had simpler functions and fewer controls. At points in history when technological advances make new things possible, techno geeks get involved in design and have a tendency to add lots of extra functionality - not always wanted by every user and sometimes only of interest to other geeky types - and with it comes increased complexity of use. They compromise not only physical ergonomics (size and separation and visibility and tactile sense-ability of buttons etc) but also cognitive ergonomics - e.g. creating labyrinthine menus, and expecting / assuming a sophisticated mental model of what is going on inside the camera.

Having both models, I believe the E-M1 is better ergomically than th E-M5 II in a variety of ways. However they both share the cognitive complexities arising partly from digital technology (he mentioned anti-aliiasing etc) and partly arising fro Olympus's convoluted menu structures.

I can understand the yearning for something simpler and cleaner, e.g. film cameras like my old Olympus OM2-N. But I value some of the newer features of digital

As has been mentioned, technology designed by geek types tends to add loads of functionality but tends to neglect other things consumers want such as usability, durability, repairability, stability, reliability etc.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
KeithL (30th September 2017), MJ224 (30th September 2017)
  #9  
Old 30th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJJE View Post
On the other hand, when you're moving in and out of dimly lit buildings - think NT properties or churches - with a digital camera you never have to worry about how fast a film to use! You just tweak the ISO setting to suit the light levels and let the camera use the best exposure values

Chris
Up to a point, I agree. Of course, HDR is a useful, if abused, innovation.

[quote]As has been mentioned, technology designed by geek types tends to add loads of functionality but tends to neglect other things consumers want such as usability, durability, repairability, stability, reliability etc.[quote]

A problem that technology brings in its wake is that, using a camera as a basis, I suspect that the software designers think "Hey, look what I can do with this "computer with a lens attached" that I'm asked to program, rather than "what does the customer want of this camera that can benefit from being implemented in software?" Another words, look at all these functions that software offers rather than what are the customer's needs, and will the customer like what I have done? And indeed, WHO is the customer? Evidence Olympus menus! Lots of clever functions, but can you find what you want, quickly and easily, in the field when you need it? All too often the cleverness has detracted from the usability, rather than enhancing it.

Rob said that he thinks the E-M1 is more ergonomic than the E-M5 MkII; I'll go further and say that it's better than the E-M5 Mk I. When I had my M5, which I sold this week, I thought it was fairly light. When I first handled the M1, my first thought was "how light it is!" It FELT lighter than the M5 - yet I know that it's heavier. Why? Because the body is a better shape, the better grip makes it FEEL lighter. The M1 is clearly quicker and easier to use than the M5; functions that you need quickly are there on body-mounted buttons! Ergonomics is a subtle business, and especially software designers don't fit well with making things FEEL better. Making things easy to use means they are appreciated more, and the product appeals more to the user with the result that the user comes back and buys another at a later date. If the user isn't comfortable, he/she looks around again when replacement comes around.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30th September 2017
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: North West England
Posts: 1,595
Thanks: 96
Thanked 179 Times in 159 Posts
Likes: 833
Liked 460 Times in 242 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

When I was trying an E-M1 ii in the shop, My wife held it as well and liked it as much as me.

I asked the assistant if she could try the M10ii just to see what she thought, especially as it is lighter than the M1ii. Wifey said yeah, great, lets have a look.

The assistant passed it to her and within seconds, she said 'Ugh, it's awful. No grip at all. Nothing to hold on to, it feels as though it could slip out of my hands'.

Moral of the story ... bad ergonomics meant no sale.... for my wife at least. Yes, I know that others love it, just saying what happened.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
KeithL (13th October 2017)
  #11  
Old 30th September 2017
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 12,332
Thanks: 827
Thanked 638 Times in 595 Posts
Likes: 6,148
Liked 3,314 Times in 1,537 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith-369 View Post
Moral of the story ... bad ergonomics meant no sale.... for my wife at least. Yes, I know that others love it, just saying what happened.
Of course they want you to buy the grip...............

I had the EM10 for a while, but did not find the ergonomics bad at all. I bought the grip a while after, but never used it. Bought the Em1 /1 instead.....

__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30th September 2017
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: North West England
Posts: 1,595
Thanks: 96
Thanked 179 Times in 159 Posts
Likes: 833
Liked 460 Times in 242 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Of course they want you to buy the grip...............

I had the EM10 for a while, but did not find the ergonomics bad at all. I bought the grip a while after, but never used it. Bought the Em1 /1 instead.....

Yes, 'The Grip' (sounds like a bad movie) at 50.00 plus. It's just as bad as Olympus selling lenses without a hood.

I think my wife and I both prefer ergonomics built in to the camera, not as an added extra.

Bet you find the EM1/1 better to hold

Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
RobEW (1st October 2017)
  #13  
Old 2nd October 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,424
Thanks: 376
Thanked 545 Times in 460 Posts
Likes: 3,258
Liked 2,252 Times in 1,486 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Chemical sensors (apart from suitably doped silicon I mean) generally have a fantastic dynamic range, tolerating a reasonable degree of under and over exposure. Part of the fun is being able to push (and pull) compensating for EI by altering development times. What's more, we can appear to bend light in circumstances by interaction with the anti-halation layer.

There's an awful lot to commend the use of film and a hybrid workflow. The list is too long, but for starters obsolescence becomes obsolete, film provides a tangible record, shooting film prevents chimping... Long live film. Just wish I had found my second breath a lot sooner.
The lack of obsolescence is one of the great benefits of film. You get a new sensor with every exposure, and it doesn't cost much to change sensors!

But of course that doesn't sit well with current business models, which simply couldn't exist with photographers changing cameras once every ten years whether they needed to or not.

It should have been obvious that this was unsustainable in the long term, but then most executives only keep their jobs on this quarter's results, so next year doesn't matter.

With regard to cars and the new-fangled electronics they come with, there is only so much that you can do with a tin box on wheels.

I am perfectly happy to drive a good car for ten years provided it remains safe and reliable, but that isn't what the industry wants. Hence we are constantly drip-fed with new gadgets that are intended to make last year's models out of date. And small cars now have all the gadgets that big, luxury cars once had, such as SatNav and Climate Control, at prices which in real terms are much lower than ten or twenty years ago.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
KeithL (13th October 2017)
  #14  
Old 2nd October 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,424
Thanks: 376
Thanked 545 Times in 460 Posts
Likes: 3,258
Liked 2,252 Times in 1,486 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJJE View Post
On the other hand, when you're moving in and out of dimly lit buildings - think NT properties or churches - with a digital camera you never have to worry about how fast a film to use! You just tweak the ISO setting to suit the light levels and let the camera use the best exposure values

Chris
Yes, although one reason wedding togs used film for so long was because of the difficulty of capturing detail in a white Bride's dress and a black Groom's suit in the notoriously shadowy conditions inside the porch of an ancient church.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2nd October 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: Took the plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Yes, although one reason wedding togs used film for so long was because of the difficulty of capturing detail in a white Bride's dress and a black Groom's suit in the notoriously shadowy conditions inside the porch of an ancient church.
I'm doing some black and white scans at the moment, it's a doddle getting the look correct just by setting the black and white points.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taken the plunge Adagio Olympus OM-D E-M1 4 14th November 2014 04:53 PM
I've taken the plunge! Floribunda Foto Fair 13 17th July 2013 11:47 PM
About time I took the plunge f2uk Looking for improvement 5 26th October 2012 01:37 PM
Taking the plunge....Me Too Rocknroll59 Looking for improvement 5 22nd October 2012 10:19 PM
Took the plunge! snapper1609 The lounge 1 12th December 2008 03:56 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:06 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger