Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Lens focus > Converters, adapters and extension tubes

Converters, adapters and extension tubes All those lens accessories that get in between the lens and the camera.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

I have been prompted to take pictures of brick walls after noticing that photographs taken with my 9-18mm f/4.0-5.6 (original Four Thirds version) seemed to be out of focus on the left-hand side.

Here are the photographs:

Brick wall by James Petts, on Flickr

Brick wall by James Petts, on Flickr

Brick wall by James Petts, on Flickr

It has been suggested to me that this may be de-centring caused by a faulty adapter. Does this seem to be a sensible suggestion?

I am using an Olympus MMF-3 adapter (I need the weather sealing because I also use it with weather sealed Four Thirds lenses).

Does this appear to be a faulty adapter, might there be a problem with the lens, or might this be something else entirely?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26th September 2016
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,777
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,300 Times in 1,015 Posts
Likes: 5,282
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

What DSLR (4/3's) body do have at the moment, because I would compare images from both cameras, but then again...... how can you be accurate with the lens (or camera alignment) being perfectly perpendicular to the wall though? Also, how much side ways movement is there in the extending end of the lens? I would suggest the problem may have more to do with that copy of the lens as you will find variation from one copy to the next with the odd one coming at the extreme edge of the QC tolerance.
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26th September 2016
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,411
Thanks: 415
Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,232 Posts
Likes: 829
Liked 1,652 Times in 739 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Looking at the shots the camera is clearly not perpendicular to the wall. As someone who tests cameras and lenses this is a very difficult task at the best of times

It's very unlikely that an adapter would cause such a problem. But as Ross says, try with a Four Thirds body or even another adapter of you have one to hand.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

I have only an E-m1 and E-P5 and just the one adapter. I realise that it is hard to get it perpendicular to the wall: I did try two walls.

The reason that I am testing this in the first place is that I noticed in one particular landscape photograph that a ridge on the left mid ground was out of focus, while the foreground and background on the right were sharp.

I posted the image on another forum, wondering whether the lens, a second hand 9-18mm, was faulty, and it was suggested that the adapter was at fault. I thought that it would be worth seeking a second opinion here, as adapters are expensive and I know that many here have good expertise with the equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26th September 2016
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,777
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,300 Times in 1,015 Posts
Likes: 5,282
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

I have seen postings in the past (& elsewhere) where a lens can have that symptom (due to variations in manufacture or maybe mishandling?) & it might be that this lens unfortunately does too.
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Apart from taking more brick wall pictures, how would I check for this?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26th September 2016
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,777
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,300 Times in 1,015 Posts
Likes: 5,282
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamespetts View Post
Apart from taking more brick wall pictures, how would I check for this?
Here is one persons suggestion. https://photographylife.com/what-is-a-decentered-lens
And more:
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/201...ts-a-makeover/
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=14078
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26th September 2016
OM USer's Avatar
OM USer OM USer is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 11,849
Thanks: 2,329
Thanked 1,479 Times in 1,407 Posts
Likes: 6,053
Liked 1,392 Times in 889 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

There are some obvious things like checking that the wall is straight and plumb vertical. Draw a nice large square with vertical sides that just fits inside your framing and extend the sides and centre line down to the ground. Use the 3-4-5 pythagorous rule on the ground to extend the centre line so you know where to place the camera and what to point at. Construct the necessary brackets and use a tripod so that you can tilt your camera (about the roll axis) around the centre of the screen. The centre point should remain in the centre of your square on the wall if the camera/wall are true. Take pictures at all 4 90-degree positions and check if the out of focus area follows the camera orientation.
__________________
Cameras: E-M5, E-PM2, OM40, OM4Ti
Lenses (M.Zuiko Digital): 7-14mm/F2.8, 12-40mm/F2.8, 40-150mm/F2.8+TC1.4x, 12-50mm/F3.5-6.3, 14-42mm/F3.5-5.6 EZ, M.ZD 40-150 F4-5.6 R, 75-300mm/F4.8-6.7 Mk1, 12mm/F2, 17mm/F1.8
Lenses (OM Zuiko): 50mm/F1.2, 24mm/F2, 35mm/F2.8 shift
Lenses (OM Fit): Vivitar Series II 28-105mm/F2.8-3.8, Sigma 21-35mm/F3.4-4.2, Sigma 35-70mm/F2.8-4, Sigma 75-200mm/F2.8-3.5, Vivitar Series II 100-500mm/F5.6-8.0, Centon 500mm/F8 Mirror
Learn something new every day
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26th September 2016
RogerMac RogerMac is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reading
Posts: 478
Thanks: 18
Thanked 38 Times in 29 Posts
Likes: 10
Liked 36 Times in 18 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Doesn't the EP5 have inbuilt level indicators that show in live view? - my EP1 and E5 do and these in conjunction with a tripod should give you a level camera. Failing that get a level that fits into the top of the camera, I got a packet of six from Amazon for about a pound but you might want to go up market a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26th September 2016
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Turn the camera through 180 degrees and compare. Does the OOF move with the new orientation?

Another thought: are you focusing using AF or manual, just wondering if there's focus shift, ie focus shift when changing aperture.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
crimbo (27th September 2016)
  #11  
Old 26th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Thank you very much for your responses, and the very helpful links, which I have read with interest.

The photograph that first made me think that something is wrong is this photograph of some hills in Iceland:

Hills and stream by James Petts, on Flickr

As can be seen, the ridge on the left centre is less sharp than either the foreground or the background, and, looking at it at 100%, the whole of the left, no matter what the distance from the camera, is much less sharp than the whole of the right, no matter what the distance from the lens. This was taken stopped down slightly at f/5.6 and at the minimum focal length of 9mm, so there should be plenty of depth of field (as the right hand and centre parts of the image indeed demonstrate).
l
One of the links above notes that ultra-wide angle lenses, zoom lenses and lenses with plastic bodies are particularly susceptible to decentring/tilting, which can be caused by physical trauma: this lens is an old, secondhand plastic bodied ultra-wide zoom which I bought two years ago from eBay (I think) and had delivered through the post.

Looking back through my older photographs taken with this lens, it seems that the problem was not always present, and has gradually become worse in the last year or so (perhaps less than that) but it is hard to be sure that one is interpreting them correctly as there is no way of making an accurate comparison. Certainly, the first photograph that I ever took with this lens (using the same adapter) had the text of a greetings card near the very left of the frame, and this seems as sharp as any other part of the frame: this photograph was taken at 9mm and f/4.0, the maximum aperture. I might be wrong in interpreting a gradual decline: it is hard to tell; it is possible that there is a more sudden emergence, but I do not remember dropping the lens or anything like that.

Does any of this seem consistent with decentring/tilting in the lens rather than a faulty adapter? Is there any point in me taking this into the London Camera Exchange and asking whether I can test it on a Four Thirds body with my memory card (or do they all take Compact Flash such that I could not do that anyway)?

Edit: To answer the most recent post: I have been using autofocus to focus in the photographs in question. I have not tried rotating 180 degrees; that is an interesting idea.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27th September 2016
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,411
Thanks: 415
Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,232 Posts
Likes: 829
Liked 1,652 Times in 739 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMac View Post
Doesn't the EP5 have inbuilt level indicators that show in live view? - my EP1 and E5 do and these in conjunction with a tripod should give you a level camera. Failing that get a level that fits into the top of the camera, I got a packet of six from Amazon for about a pound but you might want to go up market a bit.
Getting the camera level is one thing but orientating the camera perfectly perpendicularly to the target is another. I would suggest marking out alignment points representing the corners of the frame (4:3 ratio) and using these for reference in the framing.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27th September 2016
IainMacD's Avatar
IainMacD IainMacD is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Drumnadrochit
Posts: 3,933
Thanks: 1,226
Thanked 547 Times in 490 Posts
Likes: 1,849
Liked 846 Times in 238 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

Looking at the landscape image nothing beyond the right-hand foreground seems sharply in focus. I am definitely not an expert when it comes to hyperfocal distance etc. but someone here will be able to advise.
According to the Metadata:
Approximate Focus Distance - 0.58
Aperture f/5.6
Focal length 9mm
__________________
Iain

E-M5 II, E-M1, E-M1 II, 7.5, 8-18, 12-40, 25, 40-150, 45, 60, 300

Website
Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

That may be, but are the trees in the background not sharper than the rocks on the left mid-ground?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27th September 2016
jamespetts jamespetts is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Thanks: 22
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Likes: 23
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Decentred Four Thirds adapter?

I have now made some progress in respect of this: I took the lens into the London Camera Exchange in the Strand and asked whether they had any idea what the problem might be and whether it could be fixed. The assistant noticed that the front portion of the lens seemed to wobble when pressed with even light force, and said that that is not normal for this lens. He said that he would have to check for this defect in future purchases of this lens secondhand, as he had not seen this issue before.

Trying it myself, it did indeed seem to wobble. We managed to get the front ring off the lens which protects the screws holding the front housing in place and the assistant very kindly tightened the screws (only one was slightly loose), but the wobbling persisted. (I replaced the ring, which is only stuck on). I did take some photographs with this lens in the shop, but I have yet to look at these other than on the back of the camera. The assistant advised that it might be sent in for repair, but doing so would be likely to cost more than the value of this particular inexpensive lens.

They did have in stock a secondhand Olympus 7-14mm f.2.8 PRO lens, which I tried and is very nice (although a lot heavier than the 9-18 or 12-40). It is rather expensive, so I did not take it straight away, but am considering my options. I have wanted one of those for a while. I also tried a Micro Four Thirds 9-18mm, but am minded against one of those as the optical quality in the corners is not high. I will have to look at the pictures taken with the 9-18mm after screw tightening when I get back home to see whether it helped.

A little off-topic but of potential interest to those here, the shop also had a secondhand 300mm f/4 which the assistant very kindly let me try. It was rather lovely, although not something that I will be buying just yet. Apparently, it belonged to a professional bird photographer who had switched to Olympus from Canon, but switched back again after 6 months because he found that the autofocus was not quick enough. One wonders what he might make of the E-M1 Mk. II.

Edit: Looking at the pictures that I took with my 9-18mm lens in the shop (to compare it to the m.Zuiko 9-18mm and 7-14mm lenses that I tried), I noticed that the problem does not appear to be present, even though the lens still wobbles. A brief test at home with a book-case also fails to reproduce it: the left-hand side is now nice and sharp. This is very odd. I wonder whether the screw tightening worked after all?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
OM USer (27th September 2016)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WANTED MMF-1, 2, or 3 micro four thirds adapter wychbury For sale or wanted small ads 4 6th December 2014 04:52 PM
FS MMF-2 Four Thirds Lens Adapter sapper For sale or wanted small ads 0 10th September 2013 08:49 AM
WANTED Four Thirds Adapter MMF-? Roy Clarke For sale or wanted small ads 9 27th January 2013 12:32 PM
Micro Four Thirds to Four Thirds Adapter? Phaedrus Lens focus 1 23rd June 2011 11:23 PM
OM to micro four thirds adapter on eBay E-P1 fan Micro Four Thirds 2 4th August 2010 03:04 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:01 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger