Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th April 2018
timboo timboo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 917
Thanks: 76
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 76
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

I'm a very balanced person and will look at all information before passing comment but this story has struck a nerve (I can think of many other less polite words). With every death someone will grieve in this case children and other family of said burglar. Yes he was a father I'm sure he had exemplory parenting skills but outside this I have not one ounce of sympathy. There are people roaming the streets with over 300 convictions for burglary and those are the offences known of!
His death will hopefully end the missery caused within the community and tbh a much more fitting sentance than what he would have got through the system.


Anyway my point being how on Gods earth is it appropriate for people to lay flowers for the burglar opposite the house he broke into at the time of his death.

The burglary victim was minding his own business at home was arrested for murder. Granted he was released without charge, his arrest is a seperate debate although code G of P.A.C.E would easily be satisfied. I'm lost for words in relation to the flowers.

Please see the below story. I look forward to peoples feelings on this.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43710526
__________________
EM-1 MK1 - No website containing any of my photos until I'm good enough!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th April 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 12,332
Thanks: 827
Thanked 638 Times in 595 Posts
Likes: 6,148
Liked 3,314 Times in 1,537 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Complicated....

We don't know the facts, and really should reserve judgement until we ever find out. A tragedy, avoidable, for sure............
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10th April 2018
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,671
Thanks: 370
Thanked 1,245 Times in 934 Posts
Likes: 149
Liked 5,949 Times in 1,938 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Seems to me that flowers are appropriate for the relatives left behind, but that it's totally inappropriate to be putting them up near to the crime scene. Modesty and respect should dictate that this guy's death be mourned quietly and in a low-key fashion by his family. There's no honour in meeting your death in the pursuit of theft by breaking and entering into other people's homes so it's just wrong to glorify the fact. On top of that, his assailant is clearly going through hell for all sorts of reasons - this sort of action by the dead guy's relatives is just adding to the agony.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Grumpy Hec (11th April 2018), Johnheatingman (10th April 2018), Naughty Nigel (11th April 2018), Otto (11th April 2018), Phill D (11th April 2018), timboo (11th April 2018), wornish (11th April 2018), Zuiko (11th April 2018)
  #4  
Old 10th April 2018
Rebnats's Avatar
Rebnats Rebnats is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South Wales
Posts: 180
Thanks: 15
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Likes: 57
Liked 87 Times in 35 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

The flowers were probably nicked from someone else's grave
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
MJ224 (11th April 2018), Naughty Nigel (11th April 2018)
  #5  
Old 11th April 2018
timboo timboo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 917
Thanks: 76
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 76
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Complicated....

We don't know the facts, and really should reserve judgement until we ever find out. A tragedy, avoidable, for sure............
Usually but isnt this one fairly straight forward

Burglar gets stabbed during course of said burglary (no charges brought against occupant). Circumstances of stabbing not fully understood.

Family of burglar lay flowers opposite the house of victim of burglary presumably to grieve with not mich thought given to the repercussions. Regardless it is an insult to the victim of the burglary and all the other victims done over within the same vicinity during recent spate (obviously could be a different offender(s)) for these.
The only other piece to the jigsaw is his partner in crime, who Im sure will make all the difference.

I’d love to see the family meet the victim of the burglary, that would be about the only thing to change my viewpoint on this. I really do detest burglars, some people will say its not like he was a murderer etc... but burglary is very very personal. Burglars often target items with little intrinsic value more sentimental value not understanding or caring about the long term psychological effects on the victims.

Agree with it being totally avoidable. Every crime has 3 elements. Victim, offender, location. If u remove any one the crime ceases to exist.
__________________
EM-1 MK1 - No website containing any of my photos until I'm good enough!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11th April 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 12,332
Thanks: 827
Thanked 638 Times in 595 Posts
Likes: 6,148
Liked 3,314 Times in 1,537 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by timboo View Post
Usually but isnt this one fairly straight forward
Circumstances of stabbing not fully understood.
.
What I mean by complicated is that we don't know the facts. Certainly don't necessarily believe the press version. Did the victim over react, were the burglars excessively arrogant, was it just a mistake, ie a struggle that ended up in a wounding.

I totally agree that burglary is detestable, and I don't hold too much sympathy with the burglar despite the above. Sounds like the burglars family are not doing the "Right" thing either.

All a tragedy, as said avoidable..................
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11th April 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 5,636
Thanks: 56
Thanked 782 Times in 713 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 3,098 Times in 1,665 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

I don't know why anyone leaves flowers at the location of a death. Either you care or you don't. The flowers prove nothing.

As for "vigils"...

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Jim Ford (11th April 2018), Rebnats (11th April 2018)
  #8  
Old 11th April 2018
blu-by-u blu-by-u is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Selangor, Malaysia
Posts: 1,808
Thanks: 213
Thanked 95 Times in 81 Posts
Likes: 305
Liked 659 Times in 342 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Would the same people send tribute if the victim had died, say from a heart attack or from fright seeing the burglar?
__________________
* Henry
* Location: Subang Jaya, Selangor
* Malaysia


All my garbage so far.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Jim Ford (11th April 2018), Naughty Nigel (11th April 2018)
  #9  
Old 11th April 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,425
Thanks: 376
Thanked 545 Times in 460 Posts
Likes: 3,258
Liked 2,253 Times in 1,487 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by timboo View Post
I really do detest burglars, some people will say its not like he was a murderer etc...
The deceased may not have been a 'murderer' per se, but he allegedly assaulted the elderly householder with a screwdriver, which could be just as dangerous as a knife. Whatever the weapon the deceased clearly intended to cause harm to the householder or anyone else who got in his way.

As my old dad would have said, "if he couldn't take a joke he shouldn't have joined".

There is another similar saying, that "all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52) Call it poetic justice if you like.

On a different subject, some of the newspapers today have reported that the deceased was a member of a "travelling family". If their reports are correct it seems that the floral tributes are being laid by members of that family, but are being removed by a rival travelling family.

I am sure members here will draw their own conclusions from this.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
blu-by-u (12th April 2018), MJ224 (11th April 2018), Rebnats (11th April 2018)
  #10  
Old 11th April 2018
timboo timboo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 917
Thanks: 76
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 76
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
The deceased may not have been a 'murderer' per se,
On a different subject, some of the newspapers today have reported that the deceased was a member of a "travelling family". If their reports are correct it seems that the floral tributes are being laid by members of that family, but are being removed by a rival travelling family.

I am sure members here will draw their own conclusions from this.
Interesting since an image has been released showing the card written by the burglars daughter, who can actually write plain english. Either they aint from the same elk or a minority as the vast majority of that community can neither read nor write.

Further update on BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43722948

Wonder if the burglar was from a far wing opposed to the travelling community if the Police would adopt the same approach and bow down?
__________________
EM-1 MK1 - No website containing any of my photos until I'm good enough!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12th April 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 5,636
Thanks: 56
Thanked 782 Times in 713 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 3,098 Times in 1,665 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
The deceased may not have been a 'murderer' per se, but he al

On a different subject, some of the newspapers today have reported that the deceased was a member of a "travelling family". If their reports are correct it seems that the floral tributes are being laid by members of that family, but are being removed by a rival travelling family.
This reminds me of when (decades ago) a young (girl?) member of a "Traveller" family was killed by a car near the entrance to my work place, a country road.

Floral tributes were laid there and not removed.

Months later, the driver of the car was tracked down and murdered by a member of the "Traveller" family. Someone went to prison for that but it is said that a younger, male, member of the family took the punishment due to an older "senior" member, as is their custom.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12th April 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,425
Thanks: 376
Thanked 545 Times in 460 Posts
Likes: 3,258
Liked 2,253 Times in 1,487 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
This reminds me of when (decades ago) a young (girl?) member of a "Traveller" family was killed by a car near the entrance to my work place, a country road.

Floral tributes were laid there and not removed.

Months later, the driver of the car was tracked down and murdered by a member of the "Traveller" family. Someone went to prison for that but it is said that a younger, male, member of the family took the punishment due to an older "senior" member, as is their custom.

Harold
This may well explain why the residents feel intimidated by those leaving the floral tributes, and those rivals removing them.

Unfortunately the police seem unwilling to tackle this particular community unless they cross a line far too far.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12th April 2018
timboo timboo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 917
Thanks: 76
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 76
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
This may well explain why the residents feel intimidated by those leaving the floral tributes, and those rivals removing them.

Unfortunately the police seem unwilling to tackle this particular community unless they cross a line far too far.
My sentiments exactly. There is a serous inabalence/disparity as a whole, for less offences. TBH it stretches beyond the Police as the laws have not evolved covering travelers occupying land/sites without permission in the majority of cases. The police will not dare upset communities such as this due to fear of repercussions.
__________________
EM-1 MK1 - No website containing any of my photos until I'm good enough!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13th April 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 5,636
Thanks: 56
Thanked 782 Times in 713 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 3,098 Times in 1,665 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by timboo View Post
BH it stretches beyond the Police as the laws have not evolved covering travelers occupying land/sites without permission in the majority of cases.
The parallel is that fly-tipping on private land is the landowner's problem.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13th April 2018
timboo timboo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 917
Thanks: 76
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 76
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Re: Burglar (dead) flowers laid opposite victims house he broke into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
The parallel is that fly-tipping on private land is the landowner's problem.

Harold
Fair point we have big issues with fly tipping locally, mainly on quiet footpaths next to fields, very frustrating and has massive financial implications. Dont see too much here on private land.
I remember watching a program a few years ago, which followed a local authority who invested heavily in catching those responsible. It was very good and in a short space of time following successful prosecutions the levels of tipping dropped. From memory dont think the majority of culprits were frrom a travelling community either. I bet you would see a rise in tipping around surrounding local authorities who have a less proative approach.
__________________
EM-1 MK1 - No website containing any of my photos until I'm good enough!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Laid Back pandora The lounge 8 1st December 2017 10:51 AM
The opposite end of the spectrum to F1 Grand Prix TRIPLEPOT Foto Fair 1 23rd July 2013 03:32 AM
Diagonally Opposite Nick Temple-Fry Foto Fair 14 30th August 2012 02:20 AM
Looking from opposite side of a coastline... prudent Foto Fair 6 4th October 2009 02:42 AM
Opposite ends of the day snaarman Foto Fair 0 26th September 2008 06:31 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:48 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger