Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21st April 2012
mlinehan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Wow... what are we missing out on?

Well, i've been working with some JPGs and RAWs generated by a Canon 5d mk0.

They are the most easiest to work with, flexible, adaptable images i've played with. In photoshop, there is so much range for rescuing underexposed and misfired imagery. I'm amazed at how I can select an area, a face, lay a levels layer on it and light it up with no nasty noise or grain or grubbiness. The guy who took them made a real dog's dinner of someone's wedding pictures. He turned up, for sure... drank wine and ate their food. Then pointed his camera in the general direction of brides and brides maids (paid a little more attention to the maids I have to say) and a few of the groom and didn't bother getting his flash to fire right, hey... who cares.

Problem was, he couldn't be arsed to actually make good the damage he did and I picked it up.

Thank God he used a Canon 5d. It was all recoverable, really **** shots, flash misfires, under exposed night shots, bright sun with no flash for fill .... all of it was recoverable and you know what, I take my hat off to the technology. The Canon 5d is a far superior camera to at least to the E30... maybe the E5. Not sure about the OM-D. Sorry Oly fans.

Thing was.... I was second photographer at the wedding. I wouldn't have got away with what the first photographer got away with. If it was underexposed and I tried to push the exposure.... SORRY, no thanks.. grubby, weird grain and artifact city. So any misfires on my flash got binned. ISO 400 looked more "filmy" but not like banding and electronic bee swarms. I had to get it RIGHT.

You know what. I got my pics to the customer on time a year ago. I got an SOS from the bride, still nothing from mr 5d. So I contact him, he's not happy, having a bad time, lots of personal probs and not happy with the pics he took... maybe a bit embarrassed. So I got them to process.

MORAL of the story. Yes... it is superior in the realms of image recovery. You can take a really ****** image, stick it in photoshop, recover the exposure, make pretend flash illumination, recover detail and it all looks authentic. It is stunning. You can get the same effect by being a good photographer, straight out of the camera.

So next time someone with an expensive bit of Canon kit tells you their kit is better, believe me.... it is.

Who's the better photographer that needs kit to recover from "mistakes"... (whatever they are)?

Oh.... Guess which images the bride liked the most?

Analogy time. I shoot bows. Compound bows. OK, they're not English longbows (or Welsh if you prefer) but I shot everything from 20lb recurves to 70lb hunting bows designed for bringing down bears. The 20lb recurve and 40lb compounds, very forgiving, especially to amateurs who kind of don't know what they're doing - but they let amateurs get good results. The 70lb Mathew's Black Max... uncompromising, unforgiving, direct power, no second chances but stunning results when you get it right and worth the effort. I guess that's why I like Olympus cameras
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21st April 2012
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 21,625
Thanks: 1,957
Thanked 3,070 Times in 2,386 Posts
Likes: 3,215
Liked 4,286 Times in 2,017 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Interesting story, Matt, and it highlights one of the advantages of full frame cameras. You definitely have to get things pretty much right at the capture stage with Four Thirds, even if some clown does edit your pictures aferwards on the forum. I suppose logically we should all be using full frame, but then with film we should all have used medium or large format. It's great that you managed to salvage something from this guy's mess for the poor bride. I hope he didn't keep his fee.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd April 2012
gregles gregles is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,176
Thanks: 614
Thanked 396 Times in 381 Posts
Likes: 175
Liked 112 Times in 67 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

So can any **** shoot a wedding

Just on this note, I gave my, very slim and attractive wife the E30 last night, a wedding reception, and today for a family day out.

Guess what, she took some ******* fantastic shots

I know I am obviously giving the pro tog standard a very wide berth here but wow yer oly kit in the hands of a completely gorgeous girly who has never used more than a camera phone, will give excellent results even in aperture mode

Moral of the story - I drink lager, holiday in a tent, play guitar, can't remember all my kids names* and have very low standards**

Greg***

* - on Saturday nights at 1am
** -my favourite letter is L even though other letters attract a higher score
*** -likes pies
__________________
My Flickr Home Page
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd April 2012
Ulfric M Douglas Ulfric M Douglas is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 2,868
Thanks: 261
Thanked 234 Times in 215 Posts
Likes: 124
Liked 166 Times in 116 Posts
5DMk0 apparently amazing for crappy photographers.

When the 5DII came out didn't the 5D become known as the Mark one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlinehan View Post
...Analogy time. I shoot bows. Compound bows. OK, they're not English longbows (or Welsh if you prefer) but I shot everything from 20lb recurves to 70lb hunting bows designed for bringing down bears. The 20lb recurve and 40lb compounds, very forgiving, especially to amateurs who kind of don't know what they're doing - but they let amateurs get good results. The 70lb Mathew's Black Max... uncompromising, unforgiving, direct power, no second chances but stunning results when you get it right and worth the effort. I guess that's why I like Olympus cameras
I shoot Yew bows.
A friend of mine was getting crummy results from a 45lber, moving straight up to 65lb corrected his problems and he got much better groups and enjoyed it a lot more.
If the bow is too strong for the shooter it all goes bad. If the bow is too weak the same can happen.
No analogies, just giving the opposite reults to your experience.
At 110lb I'm crummy, tone it down to 100lb and things smooth out nicely. I guess I just need more training to get up into the realistic ranges.
I shot a compound once. Interesting technology. The carbon arrows are superb.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22nd April 2012
kidslateinlife's Avatar
kidslateinlife kidslateinlife is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Linton, Kent
Posts: 867
Thanks: 275
Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts
Likes: 129
Liked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Matt,

I moved over to this site from another well known photography forum, mainly due to the "my kit is better than your's" sort.

At the preverbial "end of the day", I find it all somewhat childish, and as the poor kid at school, I often felt left out for having the wrong schoolbag, or shoes etc. But I grew up, and quickly realised that the pursuit of chasing riches, or even following a herd, left an emptiness in my heart.

It sound's to me as though your photographer friend, was in a sorry place, and I can't help thinking that, he is either a genius or a just a guy with an expensive camera.
The images he shot must equally lack any composition skills, for which there is no recovery from, I have yet to find software that will take my bad shot's and make them saleable.
I supect your friend is a genius, and would love to see what he can produce, when he is at the top of his game.

I am a designer, and I can can draw a 3 dimensional image on a clients wall with a piece of chalk or crayon, and close a deal. I can equally sit in front of my drawing board and super glide parallel motion, and close the same deal.

Do I have a gift ?...............Yes I do !,
Do expensive or inexpensive tools give me my gift?..........No they don,t!

Will a 20k hasselblad make me a gifted photographer...No it won't!.

You have either got what it takes to compose and light a shot........or you have not.

I hope my analogy was aimed correctly and found it's target.

Best Wishes..........Alan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22nd April 2012
mlinehan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidslateinlife View Post
Matt,

At the preverbial "end of the day", I find it all somewhat childish, and as the poor kid at school, I often felt left out for having the wrong schoolbag, or shoes etc. But I grew up, and quickly realised that the pursuit of chasing riches, or even following a herd, left an emptiness in my heart.
i remember that pain. Mostly clothes in my day.... the right trainers, trousers, jumpers... then BMXs. I used to observe how all the PE teachers used to kind of suck up to the rich kids.... as opposed to the talented athletes, lol.

Funny thing is, my old, rubbish, inferior, "pig iron" bike that used to get me regular mocking is worth a damned fortune now! Grrrrr
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22nd April 2012
mlinehan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregles View Post
So can any **** shoot a wedding

Just on this note, I gave my, very slim and attractive wife the E30 last night, a wedding reception, and today for a family day out.

Guess what, she took some ******* fantastic shots
lol, what's with all the ****?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22nd April 2012
mlinehan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 5DMk0 apparently amazing for crappy photographers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfric M Douglas View Post
When the 5DII came out didn't the 5D become known as the Mark one?


I shoot Yew bows.
A friend of mine was getting crummy results from a 45lber, moving straight up to 65lb corrected his problems and he got much better groups and enjoyed it a lot more.
If the bow is too strong for the shooter it all goes bad. If the bow is too weak the same can happen.
No analogies, just giving the opposite reults to your experience.
At 110lb I'm crummy, tone it down to 100lb and things smooth out nicely. I guess I just need more training to get up into the realistic ranges.
I shot a compound once. Interesting technology. The carbon arrows are superb.
Yew... interesting technology. Different power distribution. Try graphite with broad heads.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22nd April 2012
kidslateinlife's Avatar
kidslateinlife kidslateinlife is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Linton, Kent
Posts: 867
Thanks: 275
Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts
Likes: 129
Liked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Case in Point

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rry-shots.html
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22nd April 2012
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlinehan View Post
Well, i've been working with some JPGs and RAWs generated by a Canon 5d mk0.

They are the most easiest to work with, flexible, adaptable images i've played with. In photoshop, there is so much range for rescuing underexposed and misfired imagery. I'm amazed at how I can select an area, a face, lay a levels layer on it and light it up with no nasty noise or grain or grubbiness. ...

The Canon 5d is a far superior camera to at least to the E30... maybe the E5. Not sure about the OM-D.

MORAL of the story. Yes... it is superior in the realms of image recovery. You can take a really ****** image, stick it in photoshop, recover the exposure, make pretend flash illumination, recover detail and it all looks authentic. It is stunning. You can get the same effect by being a good photographer, straight out of the camera.

So next time someone with an expensive bit of Canon kit tells you their kit is better, believe me.... it is.
Urmmm perhaps you are forgetting your in an Olympus forum ?

If you don't know Olympus kit REALLY well - please do not make the MOST ridiculous statements about its failures on here

PO to the other 4Ms for those delightful kit arguments

Perhaps a few people on here are being far too polite, by not telling you "its the software PS (or other marvellous software) on QUALITY jpeg & RAW files that DOES MARVELLOUS Edits on **** shots from any decent camera files!

Re your two statements I have underlined above - I have to leave the computer and visit the bathroom as otherwise I shall have . . . an accident! after all you said it "You can get the same effect by being a good photographer, straight out of the camera."

__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22nd April 2012
Internaut Internaut is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2,380
Thanks: 286
Thanked 243 Times in 222 Posts
Likes: 1,299
Liked 462 Times in 217 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

The Canon full frame cameras actually have relatively poor dynamic range (albeit a long way ahead of the Olympus cameras to date). The Panasonic GH2 and Olympus E-M5 are probably almost as good as the current Canons (the 5DIII seems to have great high ISO performance but DR well behind the pixel pumping D800).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22nd April 2012
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

ps Without your skills in PS no matter how expensive or great a camera is the shots are rubbish !
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22nd April 2012
s4ean's Avatar
s4ean s4ean is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 91
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidslateinlife View Post
So they spent about 14,000 on the wedding, but only 740 on the photographer?
__________________
OM-D E-M1 I E-30 w/HLD-4 I DMC-L1 I 25 f1.4 I 14-50 f2.8-3.5 I 35-100 f2 I 50-200 f2.8-3.5 SWD
Rokkor 45 f2 I Rokkor 50 f1.7 I Vivitar 55 f2.8 Macro
http://allurexpressions.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22nd April 2012
mlinehan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

hey, chevvy... **** off and do one (smiley smiley, wink wink)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22nd April 2012
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 21,625
Thanks: 1,957
Thanked 3,070 Times in 2,386 Posts
Likes: 3,215
Liked 4,286 Times in 2,017 Posts
Re: Wow... what are we missing out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s4ean View Post
So they spent about 14,000 on the wedding, but only 740 on the photographer?
Good point but even for 740 they should be entitled to pictures displaying basic competence - sharp, well-lit, properly exposed and carefully composed. What they shouldn't expect is the extra creativity, variety, flair and quality of presentation of a more expensive package.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP! Am I missing something? g9ern Olympus E-520 34 1st September 2011 10:03 PM
I'm sure I'm missing something....... Homer Simpson Camera conference 10 1st January 2011 08:50 PM
HELP! Missing person appeal Graham_of_Rainham The lounge 1 13th December 2009 05:10 PM
One thing missing from the E3 andym Olympus E-3 0 13th July 2008 06:46 PM
E-3 missing bits on their way Ian Olympus E-3 20 21st December 2007 10:47 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger