Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 8th October 2018
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rainham
Posts: 7,608
Thanks: 599
Thanked 894 Times in 688 Posts
Likes: 2,050
Liked 1,381 Times in 810 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

The planet worked well with 2 Billion people on it...
__________________
Graham

We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (8th October 2018)
  #17  
Old 8th October 2018
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 4,745
Thanks: 346
Thanked 1,044 Times in 793 Posts
Likes: 101
Liked 4,724 Times in 1,541 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Actually I was sceptical about anthropogenic global warming (AGW) at first but I spent a lot of time looking at the evidence and the research and bit by bit my view changed. The conclusion isn't one single "proof", but lots and lots of corroborating evidence that together makes an undeniable case.

The trouble with the deniers is that they cherry pick specific points (often based on " facts" that are demonstrably wrong) and then work it up into a case, the single truth of which is said to prove conclusively that AGW is wrong. Sun spots, Sun variability, natural cycles etc. They've all been debunked and yet they keep coming up in the deniers' protestations. And even if there is one anomalous point it's seized upon as the final argument rather than a balanced piece of evidence to consider in the round. And anomalies are to be expected given how complex atmospheric science is.

Even Trump's government recognises AGW as a fact, as this article explains very well:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...climate-denial
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Graham_of_Rainham (9th October 2018), Naughty Nigel (8th October 2018)
  #18  
Old 8th October 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,519
Thanks: 300
Thanked 427 Times in 366 Posts
Likes: 2,360
Liked 1,695 Times in 1,153 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
For goodness sake - the evidence is overwhelming. It's as proven as the fact that smoking causes lung cancer or that obesity causes diebetes.

Please watch this video carefully and listen to the points and the EVIDENCE. Human global warming is not a theory, it's a fact. No other factors could possibly account for all the evidence we observe. People have invested tens of thousands of hours of their time to properly understanding climate change, usually for very little reward or recognition,
and yet for some reason we want to believe ignoramuses who have almost zero expertise.

https://youtu.be/5LvaGAEwxYs
There is no doubt in my mind that climate change is real. Even in my lifetime the seasons and weather patterns have changed noticeably. I work in science and engineering but I don't need a PhD to see climate change with my own eyes. Farmers too have had to change when and how they sow and harvest their crops so it isn't just our imagination.

Meteorologists are keen to stress that no individual weather event can be attributed to global climate change; but climate related disasters around the world such as the deadly fires in Australia, Greece and California and the almost total lack of rainfall for several years in previously fertile areas all point to the same cause.

The question is, what do we do about it? We cannot simply 'carry on as normal.'

For too long we have taken energy and cheap travel for granted. We complain about taxes on energy and air travel but they are about the only means that governments have of curbing our use of natural resources.

The IPCC report says that switching to electric cars will help to save the planet but I am not so sure. Would it not be better to find ways of traveling less and reducing our reliance on road transport?

I have travelled extensively in my work and have often wished that I didn't. In truth many of these journeys were not really necessary, but were undertaken to cover somebody's butt. So much can be done by videoconferencing, Skype and Facetime, but there remains pressure 'to be there and be seen'. Will that ever change I wonder?

The expectation of year on year growth also seems unsustainable whilst the wisdom of buying cheap imports from the other side of the world must also be questioned.

There are so many things that we could and should be doing but I wonder what will have to happen for us to take it all seriously? Making pollution cleaner or moving it further away cannot be the answer.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
999RAR (12th October 2018), Greytop (8th October 2018)
  #19  
Old 9th October 2018
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3,876
Thanks: 240
Thanked 348 Times in 269 Posts
Likes: 1,684
Liked 1,022 Times in 507 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Along with climate change, it seems that deniers want to believe all sorts of nonsense. Pick from any of:

- NASA never went to the Moon
- The earth is flat
- 9/11 was a conspiracy by the US government
- Trump is a good President
- White people are smarter
- Megan Markle is a robot
- Various secret groups are controlling the world
- Lizards are controlling the world
- The Holocaust didn't happen
- Princess Diana was murdered by the Royal Family
- Brexit is a good idea

Actually I do think that #4 and #11 on your list are true but the rest are garbage. Thanks.

I don't believe man made climate change is making as big a difference as is claimed. Worrying ourselves sick over it won't stop all the other natural cycles from continuing to happen.

I will leave the personal insults to those that cant make valid arguments.
__________________
Dave

My Flickr

Last edited by wornish; 9th October 2018 at 07:57 AM. Reason: correction cant count
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 9th October 2018
Wally's Avatar
Wally Wally is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 3,308
Thanks: 219
Thanked 1,044 Times in 647 Posts
Likes: 409
Liked 1,261 Times in 603 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

There are always believers and dis-believers in any argument / discussion as proven in another thread.

I'm sure that the earth has it's own seasons similar to the four we all experience in a yearly cycle. The planet may takes untold eons to change from one cycle to another and they too might alter over time?. Given that our research goes back roughly 100 years or so gives both side room to argue the toss.

I've been watching a series called 'Frozen Planet.' Not saying it is the answer to the problem, but it does give room for thought. One particular episode goes back in time - 100 years - using photographic evidence to show the variation(s) as things are now.

As for pollution, my own experience is quite recent. Two years ago I spent 10 days in a very remote part of Germany - Lower Saxony - where traffic was almost non-existent. On my return to Essen, stepping out of the main train station, into the main road, I nearly choked on the fumes. The stench, was unbelievable.

I never noticed the change when in Saxony, but it hit me like a hammer when I returned to the city and, perhaps this too is part of the argument. Perhaps we have become so inured to the amount of pollution that surrounds us in our cities and their outskirts, that it goes unnoticed?
__________________
It's not what inspires us that is important, it's where the journey takes us.

Wally and his Collie with our Oly bits & bobs

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 9th October 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 8,739
Thanks: 546
Thanked 441 Times in 418 Posts
Likes: 4,047
Liked 2,003 Times in 1,020 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

https://www.quora.com/How-many-airpl...time-worldwide

6000 planes in the air at any one time...

5 litres of fuel per second each...

5x60x6000 litres per minute..nearly 2 million litres per minute. In rough terms that is 1800 tonnes of fuel per minute, and that is only the tip. Fuel exploration, refining and transporting fuel around the world/country...

*****, whatever the climate patterns are doing, as they do, we are not helping it at all, are we...ÖÖÖ..
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 9th October 2018
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3,876
Thanks: 240
Thanked 348 Times in 269 Posts
Likes: 1,684
Liked 1,022 Times in 507 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

I do agree that overall pollution especially plastics is way out of control. I too hate going in to most large cities due to the stench.

If these areas got 1/10th the airtime that climate change gets we might get them fixed, and they are certainly man made.
__________________
Dave

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 9th October 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 8,739
Thanks: 546
Thanked 441 Times in 418 Posts
Likes: 4,047
Liked 2,003 Times in 1,020 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
I'm sure that the earth has it's own seasons similar to the four we all experience in a yearly cycle. The planet may takes untold eons to change from one cycle to another and they too might alter over time?. Given that our research goes back roughly 100 years or so gives both side room to argue the toss.
We DO know that there was an ice age only 20,000 years ago, and many other before that. Climate does change with out us ******* it up as well...ÖÖÖ.
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
wornish (9th October 2018)
  #24  
Old 9th October 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,519
Thanks: 300
Thanked 427 Times in 366 Posts
Likes: 2,360
Liked 1,695 Times in 1,153 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Actually I do think that #4 and #12 on your list are true but the rest are garbage. Thanks.

I don't believe man made climate change is making as big a difference as is claimed. Worrying ourselves sick over it won't stop all the other natural cycles from continuing to happen.

I will leave the personal insults to those that cant make valid arguments.
There is no #12!

It is not a case of 'worrying ourselves sick' but actually doing something positive to help the environment rather than taking it from granted that our skies, seas and land can be used as dustbins ad infinitum.

That might mean making sacrifices, but modern consumerism has made us so wasteful that I a sure most of us could make changes to our lifestyle without noticeable hardship.

Unfortunately our track record to date is a not a good one, and all of our efforts to tackle pollution have actually made matters worse in the great scheme of things; but by moving pollution elsewhere we are happy to believe that it has gone away. Coal fires and steam engines gave way to gas, electric and diesel power, which seemed cleaner, but actually generated more CO2 and created fine particulates and nitrous oxides which have been proved to be harmful to our respiratory systems.

Catalytic converters on petrol engines did a god job of cleaning up unburnt hydrocarbons, CO and nitrous oxides but significantly increased CO2 output and fuel consumption. Diesel particulate filters have helped reduce smoky diesel exhausts but the fine particulates remain. I have a horrible feeling that electric cars will simply add to these problems, and will create a mountain of chemical waste when their batteries are exhausted. Lithium production is also a nasty business.

I accept that our planet does go through natural cycles but these things take thousands of years if not longer. I simply cannot believe that the extreme rate of change that we have witnessed over the past thirty years or so isn't caused by mankind.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Naughty Nigel For This Useful Post:
wornish (9th October 2018)
  #25  
Old 9th October 2018
DerekW DerekW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,792
Thanks: 68
Thanked 302 Times in 237 Posts
Likes: 18
Liked 420 Times in 297 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

The biggest generator of pollution is the human being - they drive, consume, fly etc so do not have one extra human being for luck or for a spare.

If you have bred and your offspring have not bred then encourage them not to breed, if they have bred then encourage them not to have an extra one because the first 1, 2 or 5 etc were so much fun.

Remember it is people that are the cause of the problem.
__________________
This space for rent
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Graham_of_Rainham (9th October 2018), Otto (11th October 2018)
  #26  
Old 9th October 2018
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 8,380
Thanks: 971
Thanked 1,217 Times in 1,134 Posts
Likes: 676
Liked 1,673 Times in 835 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Don't usually comment on threads such as these but having watched the videos in the links I have to admit to being somewhat concerned by some of the arguments and so called evidence on both sides. Real evidence and data is what's needed from rigorously controlled experiments not regurgitated opinion. One thing is for sure if things don't change then it will be a worse world to live in for everyone, plant animal or human. Surely that ought to be enough of a catalyst to get everyone to change something and make this world a better place to live in in the future.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
MJ224 (9th October 2018), Naughty Nigel (9th October 2018), wornish (9th October 2018)
  #27  
Old 9th October 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,519
Thanks: 300
Thanked 427 Times in 366 Posts
Likes: 2,360
Liked 1,695 Times in 1,153 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
.....I have to admit to being somewhat concerned by some of the arguments and so called evidence on both sides. Real evidence and data is what's needed from rigorously controlled experiments not regurgitated opinion. ]
We have been saying that and waiting for 'real evidence' for the past thirty years or more and as a result have done absolutely nothing other than procrastinate and move the problem elsewhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
.....One thing is for sure if things don't change then it will be a worse world to live in for everyone, plant animal or human. Surely that ought to be enough of a catalyst to get everyone to change something and make this world a better place to live in in the future.
You would think so wouldn't you?

How about starting with supermarket food waste, which is a disgrace in my view, the fashion industry and the perceived need to buy a new mobile phone every year? We might even be better off as a result.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 9th October 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 8,739
Thanks: 546
Thanked 441 Times in 418 Posts
Likes: 4,047
Liked 2,003 Times in 1,020 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Single use plastic is an abomination. How can we squander such a valuable resource. Our Kids and their Kids and their Kids are gonna have all the problems we are making, if humanity survives that long...ÖÖ...
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 9th October 2018
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rainham
Posts: 7,608
Thanks: 599
Thanked 894 Times in 688 Posts
Likes: 2,050
Liked 1,381 Times in 810 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

The entire history of the planet is full of extinctions. Why should humans be any different from whatís gone before.

One way of helping the environment are the many reforestation programs and all the other green projects. Reducing waste of any kind can only be good for all of us. While individuals are not going to offset the huge emissions of industrial production and energy production, the sum of small efforts will go some way to slowing the process. And, if it is all natural cycles etc., at least the place will look better with out all the plastic waste and we could just save a bit money.
__________________
Graham

We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (9th October 2018)
  #30  
Old 9th October 2018
TimP TimP is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Deepest Darkest Dorset
Posts: 815
Thanks: 19
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Likes: 97
Liked 296 Times in 205 Posts
Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
There is no #12!


That might mean making sacrifices, but modern consumerism has made us so wasteful that I a sure most of us could make changes to our lifestyle without noticeable hardship.
Agreed, and I think for the most part a lot of us are, particularly in Europe but the problem is a lot worse elsewhere, particularly places like India where there are billions of people who simply donít care and have no pride in their surroundings. Letís be honest itís pretty bad in the UK compared with France. Rural roads there are pretty clear of rubbish yet get back to the UK and literally leaving the ferry port you are surrounded by litter. Whilst as I said were pretty good in the West, there is still a sub culture of moronic people that donít think twice about hurling litter from their cars.
We can clean up pollution all we like but until someone instills some pride in everyone to care about their surroundings then itíll be a never ending task to clear it all up.
We send containers full of crap back to the Far East, do we seriously believe they deal with is responsibly? I certainly donít but hey, itís solved our immediate problem of what to do with it. Iím as guilty as the next man of just buying something new when whatever it is fails, unlike 40 years ago when stuff got repaired. Nowadays stuff just isnít repairable unless youíve got specialist kit. Gone are the days when you could repair a car radio, say, with the previously mentioned scope and an AVO. Now I see a failed item as an excuse to buy something new and shiny yet fully accept thatís not good or sustainable in the longer term.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (9th October 2018), wornish (9th October 2018)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Soap Bubble Planet brian1208 Show your movies 3 1st January 2015 08:56 PM
Planet Rock Stock macmcgill Foto Fair 12 11th December 2013 11:42 AM
3:45AM Planet Earth pandora Foto Fair 10 16th February 2012 03:22 AM
BBC Human Planet stills slideshow jdal The lounge 1 4th March 2011 01:06 PM
Hello Planet Earth Gumblemunch Introduce yourself 3 9th April 2010 12:19 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:02 AM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger