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Software Discuss Olympus Master, Studio and Viewer software applications as well as third party programs like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and others.

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Old 3rd April 2012
ronyzmbow ronyzmbow is offline
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RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

I have started to work and try RAW with my new Olympus E-PL1.
There is a BIG difference in appearance and quality of processed images being done with PS5 ACR and Olympus Studio 2. See samples cropped 100 percent.
The images from PS5 ACR (and Lightroom) are much more grainy and "dirty" than the images from the Studio 2.
Any idea why?
What is your experience?
How the problem with ACR can be solved?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PSACR100_mini2.jpg (98.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg OL100_mini2.jpg (81.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg PSACR_mini.jpg (96.2 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg OLS_mini.jpg (85.8 KB, 24 views)
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Old 3rd April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

That's quite a difference, it looks as if Studio 2 has applied some noise reduction and PS/ACR hasn't. There is a noise reduction dialogue in ACR, exactly where it is depends on whether you are driving it from LR or PS. In LR3 in the Develop module it's a little way down under "Detail". In PS it's one of the panels, can't remember which one, just select the tabs and you'll find it.

Good luck ... John
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

I agree with John, you only need to look at the pattern on the plate bottom left corner, the studio one has less noise but also has less definition.

There is always a trade off between detail and noise reduction, but at least with raw you can decide how much you want.
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Old 3rd April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

This was also posted on FTU, where I responded:

RAW processing is a complex task. Did you make any adjustments before making these sample crops? Most RAW converters will present you with a vanilla starting point with basic default adjustments. It's then up to you to use your skill to adjust white balance, levels, saturation, contrast, sharpness, noise management, etc. in order to get the best looking result. Some RAW converters have better starting points than others and Olympus Studio (actually not the best choice for Pens - I would recommend Viewer 2) has a distinct advantage because it is modelled on the way Olympus cameras work, so camera settings like the noise filter, sharpness, white balance, etc, will be applied to the base raw conversion. In other words, your Studio (and Viewer) default image quality will be further along the road of adjustments. That's not to say that the default adjustments in these programs will necessarily be what you really want.

The algorithms for sharpening and noise management in Studio are quite old compared to Adobe Camera RAW 6 which is used in Photoshop CS5. Without any doubt you will get better results using PS CS5 than Studio (or Viewer, although Viewer 2 should produce better results than Studio in theory).

To summarise, with RAW don't expect best results without some additional adjustments.

Ian
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Thanks all!
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Old 4th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Another thing that I fail to understand. The phenomena of grainy. noisy and perhaps "dirty" images being processed with PS-PSE ACR / Lightroom and clean images with Studio 2 / Viewer 2 does not happen when working on iamges from Olympus E-1. I can recall it DID happen with Olympus E-520. Perhaps it has something to do with Panasonic sensor?...

I do not have this problem of grainy / dirty RAW images from my Sony DSC R1 (BTW - a great camera with a fantastic Zeiss lens) being developed with ACR / Lightroom - images are completely clean.
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Old 8th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronyzmbow View Post
I have started to work and try RAW with my new Olympus E-PL1.
There is a BIG difference in appearance and quality of processed images being done with PS5 ACR and Olympus Studio 2. See samples cropped 100 percent.
The images from PS5 ACR (and Lightroom) are much more grainy and "dirty" than the images from the Studio 2.
Any idea why?
What is your experience?
How the problem with ACR can be solved?


My confusion goes on - When you open a RAW image in ACR the colors are pale - almost dead - compared to the colors in the Olympus programs which are alive, well saturated and very close to the Jpeg (which are always good in Olympus cameras).
To make sure I have checked the White Balance and Tint values in ACR - and they were different than the Olympus Viewer. I have changed these values and made them equal to the Olympus Viewer - and to my surprise the change in colors and appearance was very small - still pale and lifeless colors (see samples of screen shots)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ACR UP.jpg (92.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg OLY Viewer UP.jpg (87.0 KB, 8 views)
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Old 8th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronyzmbow View Post
My confusion goes on - When you open a RAW image in ACR the colors are pale - almost dead - compared to the colors in the Olympus programs which are alive, well saturated and very close to the Jpeg (which are always good in Olympus cameras).
That's because the Olympus program automatically sets the values that are set in camera to produce the jpeg as the starting point,sharpness colour saturation and contrast, other Raw programs do not, and just have a base value based on the exposure and WB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronyzmbow View Post
To make sure I have checked the White Balance and Tint values in ACR - and they were different than the Olympus Viewer. I have changed these values and made them equal to the Olympus Viewer - and to my surprise the change in colors and appearance was very small - still pale and lifeless colors (see samples of screen shots)
Every raw program I have ever used have always had a different WB and tint number..everyone..as they all use different algorithms and there is no standard between programs, the best measure is still the white balance eyedropper tool or your eye.

And finally I can always get a better result with the raw software than the camera jpeg can produce, this takes a liitle more practice and skill, just like darkroom work did in the days of film.

I have to ask if you want your raw's to look just like the in camera jpegs and not better why are you shooting raw?
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
T
I have to ask if you want your raw's to look just like the in camera jpegs and not better why are you shooting raw?
Mainly to get more flexibility and be able to save highlights or dark areas in the image.
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronyzmbow View Post
Mainly to get more flexibility and be able to save highlights or dark areas in the image.
Then use Studio 2 and the in camera settings and just adjust the exposure,shadows and highlight settings, simple.

But if you wish to be able to do more to a raw conversion then persevere with a raw program (like ACR) that allows local adjustments, like this

Orig raw


Raw conversion in CO6
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Having conversed with ronyzmbow on FTU on this same subject the point boils down to the fact that he has observed that the E-PL1 in particular seems to be presented after conversion in ACR in a more than usually un-optimised state, even compared to other Olympus and non-Olympus camera brand RAW files he is familiar with. It's an interesting observation.

Paul, I think you would agree that these days ACR can squeeze out more from a RAW file than any of the Olympus software options?

Ian
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Paul, I think you would agree that these days ACR can squeeze out more from a RAW file than any of the Olympus software options?

Ian
Indeed Ian which is why I amended my reply while you were posting.
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Old 8th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Having conversed with ronyzmbow on FTU on this same subject the point boils down to the fact that he has observed that the E-PL1 in particular seems to be presented after conversion in ACR in a more than usually un-optimised state, even compared to other Olympus and non-Olympus camera brand RAW files he is familiar with. It's an interesting observation.

Paul, I think you would agree that these days ACR can squeeze out more from a RAW file than any of the Olympus software options?

Ian
The funny / strange / annoying fact is that I NEVER had such problem in ACR / Lightroom with ANY of the following cameras -
Olympus E-1
Olympus E-300
Olympus E-500
Olympus E-520
Pentax K-10
Sony DSC R1
Canon G10
Nikon D40
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Old 8th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronyzmbow View Post
The funny / strange / annoying fact is that I NEVER had such problem in ACR / Lightroom with ANY of the following cameras -
Olympus E-1
Olympus E-300
Olympus E-500
Olympus E-520
Pentax K-10
Sony DSC R1
Canon G10
Nikon D40
I have followed this thread to Tal Ninio of PSKiss

http://pskiss.com/

It is interesting to see his reply -

The answer is very simple - in-camera definitions. Olympus's native app, reads them. ACR and LR, don't.
It is the most discussed issue in digital photography - to use or to ignore in-camera definitions...
Since many people prefer the flexibility of ACR/LR over camera colors, we sell more profile packages
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Old 9th April 2012
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Re: RAW - ACR vs. Studio 2

As I said before - still learning my new E-PL1 with RAW files.
I have Capture One Express which was for short time available as free download - never really used it seriously because I did not like the interface. Well, I have decided to give it a chance and discovered 2 very interesting facts about RAW developed images. I used the same RAW file and developed it both in PS ACR and Capture One (CO)
1.Images from CO are sharper with more clear small details.
2.The area covered with CO is larger than ACR - to my astonishment it is like having a wider lens - in all four corners of the image there more details and objects that cannot be seen in ACR! - notice a red car on the right side and a blue boat on the left side - it looks like either from a wider lens or like another file!
See samples.
Any idea why?
Who else is using CO and what is the experience with it?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PS ACR 1 R.jpg (97.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg CO 1 R.jpg (95.9 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg compare CO ACR R.jpg (95.6 KB, 13 views)
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