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Old 15th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Originally Posted by wornish View Post
I notice you avoiding answering my questions.

Which companies are leaving name some please.
HSBC, UBS, Microsoft, Deutsche Bank, Diageo and many more are are moving staff and downsizing in the UK. Just go Googling - there are lots of examples.
Vodafone, EasyJet, and many Japanese car companies are threatening to move. I think these threats are real since the implications to these sort of businesses post Brexit are severe.

Really - the evidence is there. You just need to go looking.

Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Laws for our benefit ? Like reducing the power of vacuum cleaners to 900 watts to save energy. People will have to hoover twice as long to get their carpets as clean, so end up using the same/more energy and more time. It was simply a response to lobbying by German manufacturers who cant compete with Dyson.
Have you read those regulations? I have - it was quoted by the junk UK tabloid press so many times as an example of stupid EU laws that I thought I'd better check it out.

What I found was surprisingly readable stuff trying to provide objective ways of measuring vacuum cleaner efficiency. If I buy a 1000W cleaner it only tells me how many Watts it consumes, not how well it sucks! The regulations introduce objective ways to measure cleaning efficiency.

Moreover, the regulations are putting pressure on manufacturers to improve efficiency by consuming less power so we fry our planet less. What's wrong with that?

In truth the vacuum cleaner regulations are good regulations that if presented as a BSI would be hailed by the same junk press as "Great British regulations". As to Dyson - well, like any company they can access them freely and easily on the EU website and even choose from 28 languages (which btw is a great way to ensure level playing field access to the common market).

Speaking of Dyson, I've just been looking at their hairdryer in a store in the US. $400 - for a hairdryer! Strikes me that competing against a $99 Braun one next to it has little to do with being stitched up by EU regs.

Sorry - but actually the vacuum cleaner regulations stuff is just another example of the dumb and uninformed UK press spreading lies in a clear attempt to position the EU negatively in the minds of the UK public. It stinks!

Originally Posted by wornish View Post
We are a net contributor to the EU by a large amount. They give back some of our contribution to be used where they specify on what they decide.
So effectively we have only one vote in 28 on where to spend our money. I would rather we decide for ourselves and have some electoral control over the people making the decisions. Then if we dont like the decisions we can change the people.
As a member we get to debate and agree on the budget - both inbound and outbound funds. It's not "them", it's the wider" us". That we are a net contributor may be true, but we need to look at the wider and longer term picture. Helping build a broad and prosperous EU is heavily in our interests.

Is the EU budget always wisely spent? - probably not, but is the bigger picture of a stable and peaceful Europe, where we can trade, travel and live at will and in peace, not something worth spending a little on? Isolationism and trade barriers have too often been the prelude to war so many times in history.

Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Farming - so the efficient French farming system is what our farmers should aspire to ? They get around 40% of the total EU budget
The CAP is not a great policy and it doesn't play to our benefit. I agree with that. But it's a policy that is reaching its sell-by date anyhow.

The 40% figure you quote is I think the total CAP share of the EU budget (and in fact is less than this now). France does not receive anything like 100% of the CAP budget. Ask yourself why one of the many legislative things on this government's list to sort out in the wake of Brexit is to introduce farm subsidies. Many UK farmers receive payments from the CAP which we'll need to continue to fund.

Originally Posted by wornish View Post
We manage to trade with the rest of the world on WTO terms. The custom union actually inhibits us. As I said before its a protection racket for inefficient industries in the EU. It actually prevents innovation and hurts developing countries. Great system.
That makes no sense at all. Governments introduce trade barriers to protect their own industries. Getting a deal on trade tariffs is about opening up export opportunities balanced against import barriers. We're much more likely to get a deal if we negotiate as part of the EU than on our own.

Look to what Trump did with Bombardier in NI. As a member of the EU we could put pressure on him much better than if we were alone.

Sorry, but being part of the EU gives us a strong negotiating position, not the opposite. WTO is the lowest common denominator - not a position to aspire to.

All this customs union stuff is just another example of right wing press delusion.

The objective case for leaving the EU is just not there. That's why anyone who has any clue about how our economy works has been saying for a long time that Brexit is a disaster. You can't count fools like Boris or Gove - they are basically journalists made good.
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