Olympus UK E-System User Group

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-   -   Trading on the e-group forum (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31604)

Ian 17th February 2014 05:44 PM

Trading on the e-group forum
 
I just wanted to inform everyone that after some discussion among the mods in response to some private and public feedback from members we will shortly be revising the forum rules in order to refocus the forum on what it was intended for; involved activity including discussion and image sharing and helping and informing each other. Unfortunately, our membership has attracted people who are only interested in doing business via the classified ads section here.

The rule changes are aimed at preventing members from using the forum primarily for trading (buying/selling or swaps). We also want to deal with the problem of members finding that something they sold recently being re-sold here on the forum for a profit.

The For Sale and Wanted section of our forum will continue to be a valuable and useful resource for members, but we want to make it clear that if you are almost exclusively using our site for trading, you will no longer be welcome here.

Ian

David M 17th February 2014 06:19 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I add the traders to my ignore list so I don't see their posts. I seem to be adding more these days.

Homer Simpson 17th February 2014 07:41 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Chaps (mods & Ian)

Do you think you might be over reacting?
I’ve been a forum member for quite a few years. I rarely log in but browse maybe twice a day. I don’t post photos as I have not got around to bothering to find out how. I like this forum because it’s so friendly and moderated so nicely.
I only buy second hand now and virtually all from forum members. I have made some good friends both digitally and in real life from the forum, so long may the current culture rule.

I nearly joined in the ruckus, last week, as I thought people were unfairly ganging up on that particular seller. Basically the only person who should have felt aggrieved was the original seller and he came on to state he was not concerned. Beyond that it was no one else’s business.
In the last year someone joined and was trying to buy kit – people were offering stuff at decent prices but he dismissed them as too much and pleaded poverty. I think some took pity and he acquired kit at below the market value. Some months passed and he “upgraded” – was I the only one to notice his change of heart regarding prices when he was a seller? He is now an active member and I would not mind betting if I named him there would be uproar here.
My point is someone might join to buy & sell but end up here as a participating member and that we all might want to participate in a different way, so lets maintain the tolerance I think this site should be justly proud of.

timphoto1 17th February 2014 08:43 PM

Re: I agree with Mr Simpson
 
I have mostly bought and sold one here but have been a member for a long time and made some other posts here too. It seems to be a bit of an over reaction . Sure someone got a great deal decided not to keep the camera and then listed it at a higher price than he bought it. No big deal really that seller could have put it on ebay and made the same money even with ebay fees taken off. I have stuff listed here right now and on ebay but its a much lower price here and fairly hard to find too so surely thats a potential benefit to members.. If people buy and sell at a price they are both happy with then everyone should be happy. I once bought a lens off ebay for £12 and sold it for £150 back on ebay the next week! I am hoping to post in other sections over the coming months but life is very busy for me at the moment . I agree the trading should only be a small part of the site and it is. I buy / use / swap / trade a lot of Olympus gear sometimes I make some money sometimes I lose money I dont think thats a bad thing though!
Regards
Tim

StephenL 17th February 2014 08:46 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
With respect, Homer, the mods get to see the bigger picture, including statistics and privileged info from other members.

It's always been a case of Caveat Emptor, but we try our best to ensure fairness amongst all. :)

DekHog 17th February 2014 08:50 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Good on you, Ian, and not before time I say, having been somewhat vocal on the subject myself over the years....

Zuiko 17th February 2014 10:24 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
It's not an over-reaction because this is not the result of just one transaction or one seller. It's a trend that has been escalating for several years, during which time there have been a number of traders making multiple transactions and we have taken action against some of these following complaints from other members. It has been a subject of ongoing debate amongst the admin and mod team and, far from over-reacting, we have been remarkably tolerent for the very reason that this is a friendly forum and we don't wish to appear heavy handed. However, with the For Sale board being increasingly used in a manner that was not envisaged or intended when it was established, we reluctantly feel it is time to re-establish the principles on which it is based.

Ian 17th February 2014 10:47 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
This clarification of policy is likely to only affect a very small number of people negatively, but be positive for the vast majority of us.

Ian

David Morison 17th February 2014 11:05 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I regard this forum as a community of friends and as such don't see it as a market place, although I have bought one item from another member. So I wholeheartedly support Ian and the moderators in this move - part of a process of evolution that is a must for any forum to remain top of the league.

David

Ross the fiddler 18th February 2014 12:10 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I wish I was over there (in the UK as there is no forum for Olympus users here with the privileges you enjoy on this great forum) to be able to share in the experience of being able to pass on something I have that I don't need or use any more & know that it has gone to another member & hopefully brought them pleasure (or to buy something from another member), but I would be miffed if someone bought solely to buy & then to try & make a profit on it to someone else. I see this forum as a group of friends where we can help each other in a number of ways (including with buying & selling to each other) but I see no place for profiteers here, so thanks Ian.

I'm not sure I would want to be there in the floods though. :rolleyes:

mike_j 18th February 2014 09:01 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I'm glad that you are not going to stop all sales as it is a valuable service to members. I admit that recently I have been selling several items as I have changed system, though it's not exactly a profit making exercise, more a generous subsidy to other Olympus users :(

It's quite interesting to compare the approach on other forums. Leica User Forum charge a modest sum (€5) per ad. Talk Photography limit the number of adverts you can have and insist that all negotiation are within the forum thread so other members can see what offers are made, silly (and you do get them!) or otherwise and the final price.

Generally I have found both buying and selling through the forum much more pleasant than using ebay and it would be a shame if you eventually find you have to stop the practice.

sapper 18th February 2014 09:21 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Must say that the first forum I turn to is the for sale/wanted one, next is the Lounge.
I have bought and sold, at a profit on one occasion and would hate to see that part of the site go.
I do accept that us ordinary mortals, (members, not mods):D do not see the whole picture, but would say, let the butter (Butter?) beware. If someone wants to pay above the odds, so be it.

Ulfric M Douglas 18th February 2014 10:09 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer Simpson (Post 279850)
I nearly joined in the ruckus, last week, as I thought people were unfairly ganging up on that particular seller. Basically the only person who should have felt aggrieved was the original seller and he came on to state he was not concerned. Beyond that it was no one else’s business.
In the last year someone joined and was trying to buy kit – people were offering stuff at decent prices but he dismissed them as too much and pleaded poverty. I think some took pity and he acquired kit at below the market value. Some months passed and he “upgraded” – was I the only one to notice his change of heart regarding prices when he was a seller? He is now an active member and I would not mind betting if I named him there would be uproar here.
My point is someone might join to buy & sell but end up here as a participating member and that we all might want to participate in a different way, so lets maintain the tolerance I think this site should be justly proud of.

I'm the guilty curmudgeon (not the seller, the original ganger), but I tried to comment gently and even PM'd the forum about whether I was even allowed to point things out.
I got no reply from Ian on that, but really didn't want to overstep any rules.
I'm sorry if my comments have caused harm, but happy if the forum remains almost non-commercial as a result.
I'm always one for a bargain, but also fairness and honour.
I also think your post was great and totally agree with you on all points.

Ian 18th February 2014 10:12 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
To clarify, the change in policy is to target people who are only using the site for opportunistic trading. These are a small number of people whose posting history is virtually all to do with buying and selling/swapping gear.

If you are a normal member who uses the site for various involved activities or even if you are not a frequent poster but browse the site instead, as long as you are not primarily using the site for trading then you will not be affected.

Of course there are going to be times when you get a profit when re-selling an item previously bought from another member. My advice is that you should let the previous owner know as a courtesy but in terms of the rule change we ask that you don't re-sell here on the e-group an item bought from another member for a profit until three months after you originally purchased it. There is of course nothing stopping you from selling it elsewhere.

If there are extenuating circumstances then please get in touch with the original owner and/or us and if we are all agreed then all the necessary courtesies will have been made and you can go ahead and sell an item for a profit inside of 3 months.

We will see how the changes go and adjustments if necessary.

Ian

Ian 18th February 2014 10:13 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulfric M Douglas (Post 279983)
I'm the guilty curmudgeon (not the seller, the original ganger), but I tried to comment gently and even PM'd the forum about whether I was even allowed to point things out.
I got no reply from Ian on that, but really didn't want to overstep any rules.
I'm sorry if my comments have caused harm, but happy if the forum remains almost non-commercial as a result.
I'm always one for a bargain, but also fairness and honour.
I also think your post was great and totally agree with you on all points.

I'm very sorry you didn't get a response; actually I don't remember seeing your communication so I can only apologise.

Ian

Ian 18th February 2014 10:21 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
One other thing - we aren't going to patrol the forum with bayonets at the ready and wage guerilla warfare with 'baddies' - if we come across someone who we feel is not respecting the spirit of the forum then we'll contact them and politely convey our concerns. We want to give people the a chance to adapt of that's what they want. If they do then we welcome this, if not, then we will only terminate accounts after all avenues have been explored in a civilised and fair-handed manner.

Ian

OM USer 18th February 2014 11:58 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 279984)
...but in terms of the rule change we ask that you don't re-sell here on the e-group an item bought from another member for a profit until three months after you originally purchased it.

Sounds extremely friendly to me - and hence in the spirit of the forum. Thank you Ian & Mods.

yorky 18th February 2014 03:35 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I don't see any problem, I have bought from members and sold to various members very occasionally but each occasion they have been members whom I have seen contributing on a regular basis with no problems whatsoever. I think the terms to be fair are reasonable and I can't see a problem.

timphoto1 18th February 2014 10:05 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I guess I am a guilty party then having mostly bought and sold on this forum but not for a profit on here . I have owned Olympus for a number of years and have regularly contributed to other sites. I think I have mainly benefited members . I buy and sell on ebay quite a bit but that is all from ebay and then sold back on ebay . I make money sometimes for sure but I have never had a seller complaining that I resold there item for more money. To be honest if someone bought something from me and then made a healthy profit reselling here or on ebay then good luck to them thats there good fortune . My advice is check out the current selling rates of items first before putting them up for sale.
As for not selling an item you bought back on the forum within three months and telling the seller if you are going to make a profit that's just unrealistic and to be honest nowhere I have ever come across has ever suggested that.
Just my opinion but I dont think your changes are necessarily needed or wanted by the majority of your forum members . Maybe you should have a democratic vote ?
Regards
Tim

sponner 18th February 2014 11:48 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
I've bought and sold on here, I find the for sale board an important part of the forum and would not like to see it over moderated, although I do get the unease.

Ross the fiddler 19th February 2014 12:03 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timphoto1 (Post 280101)
I guess I am a guilty party then having mostly bought and sold on this forum but not for a profit on here . I have owned Olympus for a number of years and have regularly contributed to other sites. I think I have mainly benefited members . I buy and sell on ebay quite a bit but that is all from ebay and then sold back on ebay . I make money sometimes for sure but I have never had a seller complaining that I resold there item for more money. To be honest if someone bought something from me and then made a healthy profit reselling here or on ebay then good luck to them thats there good fortune . My advice is check out the current selling rates of items first before putting them up for sale.
As for not selling an item you bought back on the forum within three months and telling the seller if you are going to make a profit that's just unrealistic and to be honest nowhere I have ever come across has ever suggested that.
Just my opinion but I dont think your changes are necessarily needed or wanted by the majority of your forum members . Maybe you should have a democratic vote ?
Regards
Tim

For the spirit of this forum, I think making any profit is unnecessary & in bad form. Usually equipment will depreciate & if a fellow member can't sell it on without 'making a killing', then they fall into the 'profiteering' category as far as I'm concerned. If I paid $500 for a lens from a member & then 6 months down the track decide I don't want it any more, although I might get $700 on ebay, why should I expect another member to pay more than I did. I'm sorry, but any member here trying to make a profit to another member on those terms is hardly a friendly member to me & this is supposed to be a friendly membership, with it being the case most of the time & I hope it can be maintained, but unfortunately needs moderating measures to keep it that way. I don't live in the UK (still have family around the UK though), but I hope the majority of the members might think similarly.

OlyPaul 19th February 2014 08:37 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Yes although i have not been vocal I have noticed this trend for sometime and especially those coming from other sites just to sell things and not participate.

I've sold quite a few thing here to friends and by friends I mean people I have I have known here a long time when I have upgraded (though not for a while) and if I say so myself always at reasonable prices, so much so that they were nearly always snapped up immediately.

Now my main reason for saying this is that in the past I have had a policy of first come gets it as they have always been true committed members.

In future anything I do sell that has multiple buyers will not go to the first come first serve but to those who I consider to be true participating members and friends.

I am pretty sure that can be my prerogative if I so choose, and I am sure Ian will let me know if it is not.

Ian 19th February 2014 10:12 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timphoto1 (Post 280101)
I guess I am a guilty party then having mostly bought and sold on this forum but not for a profit on here . I have owned Olympus for a number of years and have regularly contributed to other sites. I think I have mainly benefited members . I buy and sell on ebay quite a bit but that is all from ebay and then sold back on ebay . I make money sometimes for sure but I have never had a seller complaining that I resold there item for more money. To be honest if someone bought something from me and then made a healthy profit reselling here or on ebay then good luck to them thats there good fortune . My advice is check out the current selling rates of items first before putting them up for sale.
As for not selling an item you bought back on the forum within three months and telling the seller if you are going to make a profit that's just unrealistic and to be honest nowhere I have ever come across has ever suggested that.
Just my opinion but I dont think your changes are necessarily needed or wanted by the majority of your forum members . Maybe you should have a democratic vote ?
Regards
Tim

Tim, I don't believe we have had any complaints about you but we certainly have concerning others who are maybe more aggressive and more prolific in their buying and selling. The problem is that your attitude is not representative in wishing others good luck in getting a good price - it does generate bad feeling and sometimes people don't complain publicly but are upset inside.

In the end it is down to the buyer to do what they want to with whatever they have bought but all we are asking is that if they are aiming to make a short term profit, to do it outside of the this site. I think that is more than reasonable.

And the question has to be asked - if you buy and sell so much gear, what do you do with it? Do you use it? If so why not get involved in showing your photography or at the very least get involved in discussions about others' photos or help/ask for help concerning gear or photography?

Ian

Simon Bee 19th February 2014 01:11 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 280157)
In the end it is down to the buyer to do what they want to with whatever they have bought but all we are asking is that if they are aiming to make a short term profit, to do it outside of the this site. I think that is more than reasonable.Ian

This is a very reasonable and sensible statement and I totally agree, I have personally bought off and sold on the forum and it is indeed a very valuable resource, in fact I will shortly offer my E-M5 & 12mm for sale here as I have just bought an E-M1 off of a member. BUT it is my belief that if you are looking to 'quickly profit' off of the back of another member it goes against the 'spirit' of this very warm and friendly forum, and that's coming from a capitalist :eek:

Of course once you have paid for the item/s they are yours to do with as you so wish, and if you wish to sell on at a profit that is your choice BUT in the interest of harmony and dare-I-say fairness you should do so 'outside' of this forum, i.e. ebay / gumtree etc.

As an aside, if one is "buying and selling" on a frequent and largish scale I trust one is letting HMRC know so that one pays the relevant income tax on the 'profit' as HMRC WILL class you as effectively running a business and want their dues. HMRC often patrol car boot sales as these have in many cases gone from someone selling 'one or two' items to individuals making ( or attempting to ) a healthy living from them ;)

Regards

Simon

photo_owl 19th February 2014 01:59 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OlyPaul (Post 280150)
Yes although i have not been vocal I have noticed this trend for sometime and especially those coming from other sites just to sell things and not participate.

I've sold quite a few thing here to friends and by friends I mean people I have I have known here a long time when I have upgraded (though not for a while) and if I say so myself always at reasonable prices, so much so that they were nearly always snapped up immediately.

Now my main reason for saying this is that in the past I have had a policy of first come gets it as they have always been true committed members.

In future anything I do sell that has multiple buyers will not go to the first come first serve but to those who I consider to be true participating members and friends.

I am pretty sure that can be my prerogative if I so choose, and I am sure Ian will let me know if it is not.

I'm in the same space Paul.

Although in the past I have rarely sold anything (an accusation my wife repeats every decade and that I have had little defence to) I have recently started to do so.

Generally I have been selective in the manner you mention through offering items to people who's posts suggest they might appreciate it (someone who's 620 died got an offer on my 30, the 50-200 went to someone who had had a burglary, and other items have generally gone to where I consider a good home and they consider a good price - this has also applied to purchases so I suspect others have made similar decisions at times too!

This is, in many ways, quite an unusual 'forum'; possibly a mirror of Olympus's early photographic consumers!

It's definitely not a democracy, and there's absolutely no reason why it should be - as members we are fortunate to benefit from a benign dictator with a little interest and support from a manufacturer; long may it continue *chr

I was going to sell a lovely little Vivitar 28/2 that I had previously purchased from someone on here - but as I can't remember how much I paid, and it was only 6 years ago, I think I will hang on to it a little longer :D

Ian 19th February 2014 02:05 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 280205)
I'm in the same space Paul.

Although in the past I have rarely sold anything (an accusation my wife repeats every decade and that I have had little defence to) I have recently started to do so.

Generally I have been selective in the manner you mention through offering items to people who's posts suggest they might appreciate it (someone who's 620 died got an offer on my 30, the 50-200 went to someone who had had a burglary, and other items have generally gone to where I consider a good home and they consider a good price - this has also applied to purchases so I suspect others have made similar decisions at times too!

This is, in many ways, quite an unusual 'forum'; possibly a mirror of Olympus's early photographic consumers!

It's definitely not a democracy, and there's absolutely no reason why it should be - as members we are fortunate to benefit from a benign dictator with a little interest and support from a manufacturer; long may it continue *chr

I was going to sell a lovely little Vivitar 28/2 that I had previously purchased from someone on here - but as I can't remember how much I paid, and it was only 6 years ago, I think I will hang on to it a little longer :D

Oooh - Vivitar 28mm f/2? Can I borrow it for my AP Classics to Use series? :)

Ian

Simon Bee 19th February 2014 02:18 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 280207)
Oooh - Vivitar 28mm f/2? Can I borrow it for my AP Classics to Use series? :)

Ian

If not, you can always borrow my 28mm F2.0 Zuiko ;)

Kind regards

Simon

photo_owl 19th February 2014 03:53 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 280207)
Oooh - Vivitar 28mm f/2? Can I borrow it for my AP Classics to Use series? :)

Ian

depends - do I have to get permission from the person who sold it to me? :rolleyes:

simple answer is yes; just pm to let me know where to send it Ian. It's a modified K mount so it's basically 43 mount.

Ian 19th February 2014 04:24 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 280220)
depends - do I have to get permission from the person who sold it to me? :rolleyes:

simple answer is yes; just pm to let me know where to send it Ian. It's a modified K mount so it's basically 43 mount.

Will it still fit a Pentax?

Ian

photo_owl 19th February 2014 08:22 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 280229)
Will it still fit a Pentax?

Ian

no idea - it was a Minolta mount I believe and now just 'fits' a 43 mount.

timphoto1 19th February 2014 08:41 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 280157)
Tim, I don't believe we have had any complaints about you but we certainly have concerning others who are maybe more aggressive and more prolific in their buying and selling. The problem is that your attitude is not representative in wishing others good luck in getting a good price - it does generate bad feeling and sometimes people don't complain publicly but are upset inside.

In the end it is down to the buyer to do what they want to with whatever they have bought but all we are asking is that if they are aiming to make a short term profit, to do it outside of the this site. I think that is more than reasonable.

And the question has to be asked - if you buy and sell so much gear, what do you do with it? Do you use it? If so why not get involved in showing your photography or at the very least get involved in discussions about others' photos or help/ask for help concerning gear or photography?

Ian



I have always bought lots of lenses digital and manual used them traded them sold them etc. If you looked at my profile on DPreview from 2005 you would see this . I think quite a lot of people do this. I do show my pics when I have time not many if any here but lots on dpreview and other sites flickr / artwanted etc . Most with Olympus cameras. I do also do some additional buying and selling on ebay sometimes and sure I make a bit of money . I deal with Olympus gear due to its reliability VS other brands . I dont buy and sell for profit on this forum . I am not a full time trader more a now and again for a few months at a time trader on ebay . I do use a lot of the gear as well.


I dont think my attitude is a bad one at all . Generally I have only seen things sold on here for the market rate or just below market rate . If someone buys something for say £100 here and its actually worth £200 if they then decide to sell it after a few months as they don't use it or dont want it then should they have to sell it for half the market rate so they don't make a profit?
Doesnt make any sense to me . I am also guessing lots of us not just me have bought a bargain or two off ebay and then ended up re-selling it some time later for a healthy profit

I do kind of understand what you are trying to do but generally people will only buy & sell for around the market rate and for what they deem to be fair
I just think that there really isn't that much of a problem but then I havent been around here all the time .

I can also see just from this thread that I am not the only one to have a similar thinking in this matter. Still I appreciate you are doing what you think is best

Regards

Tim

Kami 19th February 2014 09:20 PM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
FWIW, I don't show many photos on here 'cos I use Flickr and ipernity and the various Meetup Groups of which I am a member. The photos shown here don't go full-size (or, if they do, I don't know how to access full-sized versions), and the interface to upload them and show them off is not particularly intuitive, and navigation is a nightmare.

I like to contribute to critique in the LIF Thread - but would be even happier giving more detailed critique if I could see more detail in those shots.

As for selling / buying, which is what this thread is about, I can see both sides. I personally would not be happy getting paid more for something I'd bought here; I would tend to avoid somebody who I noticed had a bit of a track record of making a bit extra from members' lower pricing. But have been criticised when I've pointed out in threads that I think a price is too low ! I'm one for transparency in all dealings, and other fora, where deals are made in the open, do have a certain appeal to me :-)

But not all fora are the same, and a bunch of slightly condescending moderators here, a gaggle of laughing moderators there, adds to the variety of life online.

timphoto1 20th February 2014 06:38 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnheatingman (Post 280330)
The bottom line here Tim is that you apparently purchase photography gear with the intent of re-selling it. You had 128 posts on your statistics with the vast majority in the For Sale board, so combine these with your admitted Ebay and DPreview sales and that in my considered opinion means you are a prolific dealer no matter how much you protest.

This unique and excellent forum is mainly comprised of members who have a genuine interest in all things photographic, who contribute by joining in discussions, showing photos, evaluating and commenting on photos and are always ready and willing to offer help and advice when requested by members. I doubt very much that Ian or indeed Olympus ever envisaged the For Sale board would be used by prolific traders for the sole purpose of avoiding selling fees imposed elsewhere and indeed taxation. This problem has no doubt been made worse by Ebay insisting that prolific sellers now register as Business Sellers possibly as a result of pressure and interest from Inland Revenue

In my opinion, the forum For Sale section is for members who wish to advertise and sell items they originally purchased for their own use and now no longer use or need, and of course for other members to purchase such items if they so wish.

There are plenty of other sales outlets online which dealers can use to advertise items they have purchased with the intent of re-selling, but of course these will involve selling fees, restrictive rules and therefore reduced profits ! :)


John

I am hardly a prolific seller sure I use and sell quite a lot of Olympus gear as I mentioned . You cant sell gear on DPREVIEW i actually said I used to post a lot of photos there. I have never bought off here with the express intention of resell here for a profit as you can see from my record. I dont make a ton of cash off ebay anyway . I could have offered around 20 items on here but I listed two rarer ones that people might have been interested in at well below ebay prices. You seem to have missed my point completely . It doesnt really matter anyway .
Regards
Tim

crimbo 20th February 2014 07:32 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
lets be honest folks, life is all about trade.If we have a facility on the board to buy and sell then there will be a distribution of users in that section from those who spend a lot of effort making a small profit to those who buy the odd item at what they are happy to pay.
This is a relatively small board so we kinda trust each other when it comes to transactions at present, but it will outgrow that if the status quo persists.
Options:
the one of least effort is to close all transactions
you could make all transactions be out in the open. This requires the mods to patrol the pm's in some way
an Ebay style where users are openly shown to be trading and how much trade they have done. Lot of work and kind of gets away from the point of the board...but do you have it as a facility?
... while the majority of members will use the what ever you have in place within the spirit intended there will be those who will push the limits.
I know several people who 'wheel and deal' on auction sites as a hobby to make a little money on the side so as with Facebook and Twitter the practice is mainstream.

And to declare: I have not sold on this board. I have bought several items from this board

Ian 20th February 2014 09:35 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kami (Post 280306)
FWIW, I don't show many photos on here 'cos I use Flickr and ipernity and the various Meetup Groups of which I am a member. The photos shown here don't go full-size (or, if they do, I don't know how to access full-sized versions), and the interface to upload them and show them off is not particularly intuitive, and navigation is a nightmare.

I like to contribute to critique in the LIF Thread - but would be even happier giving more detailed critique if I could see more detail in those shots.

As for selling / buying, which is what this thread is about, I can see both sides. I personally would not be happy getting paid more for something I'd bought here; I would tend to avoid somebody who I noticed had a bit of a track record of making a bit extra from members' lower pricing. But have been criticised when I've pointed out in threads that I think a price is too low ! I'm one for transparency in all dealings, and other fora, where deals are made in the open, do have a certain appeal to me :-)

But not all fora are the same, and a bunch of slightly condescending moderators here, a gaggle of laughing moderators there, adds to the variety of life online.

You can use Flickr BBCode to show your photos here.

Ian

themosttogain 20th February 2014 10:14 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kami (Post 280306)
I like to contribute to critique in the LIF Thread - but would be even happier giving more detailed critique if I could see more detail in those shots.

This might not be the best place to add this...maybe it should be a new thread, but I have to agree with this opinion...it doesn't seem particularly relevant offering critique on images shown at 800x600 as downsizing to those sort of dimensions can hide image blur, noise, and bad post processing amongst other things.

I would much rather see more links to Flickr (I restrict 'randomers' to 1600 size, but allow my followers to view my images at full resolution), or even better for this forum, to see the 512kb file size limit increased - I know this would have an impact on storage space, but allowing much larger resolutions to be used would surely enable much more relevant critiquing, which seems quite important for a photography forum?

Ian 20th February 2014 10:24 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Here is one of Andy Elliot's shots posted to the FTU gallery (same gallery system as we have here) - 316K 1280x960:

http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries...1/12102149.jpg

You aren't limited to 800x600 on the e-group gallery, but if you post very large dimension images you won't be able to see the whole image on the screen - even if you have a 1920x1080 screen, which is now the most prolific type.

You can of course show Flickr images here on the forum.

Ian

Quote:

Originally Posted by themosttogain (Post 280405)
This might not be the best place to add this...maybe it should be a new thread, but I have to agree with this opinion...it doesn't seem particularly relevant offering critique on images shown at 800x600 as downsizing to those sort of dimensions can hide image blur, noise, and bad post processing amongst other things.

I would much rather see more links to Flickr (I restrict 'randomers' to 1600 size, but allow my followers to view my images at full resolution), or even better for this forum, to see the 512kb file size limit increased - I know this would have an impact on storage space, but allowing much larger resolutions to be used would surely enable much more relevant critiquing, which seems quite important for a photography forum?


StephenL 20th February 2014 10:27 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
The only drawback to posting large dimensions is when you come to view the forum on a tablet. The image is fine - but it doesn't half shrink the text! (Should have gone to Specsavers) But I think we're getting a little off-topic... :D

themosttogain 20th February 2014 10:32 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenL (Post 280410)
But I think we're getting a little off-topic... :D

My fault!

Ian - thank you...that image is impressive for that filesize...maybe it's my reluctance to move that JPEG quality slider below number 10 thats the issue here then! *yes

timclarkih 20th February 2014 11:07 AM

Re: Trading on the e-group forum
 
TimPhoto, the original debate was aimed at me, the other Tim, as I as the was the one who started this trying to sell the Em5 for a high price.

We seem to be fighting a moral high ground.
Putting this in perspective, I was asking for £100 more than I paid for it. Agreed, cheeky but I've gone over that already.
Look at my stats and see that I have offered forum members good gear in the past, all at lower prices than I paid for them. We are talking about a handful of items. I made my case which I stand by.
Maybe double standards here, I'm sure all the critics here who have bought gear were happy with their purchases. But now you don't want people to offer you good kit if they have not been posting. How many people can honestly say they have not put items for sale on other sites, if so were they actively contributing to those sites?
If a price is too high I just ignore it. If someone sells my gear for a higher price then I'm not bothered. How many people have bought from TimPhoto, you were happy then. If you don't want traders (I'm not classing TimPhoto as anything, thats for you to decide) then make that a proper decision. Don't hide behind this finger pointing attitude of rule breaking when the rules don't really seem to exist.
I'm sure all those buyers who bought from me did not care if I had contributed with other posts on the forum or not.
Ian asks what do we do with our cameras if we keep changing… I've covered my reasons for that.
It seems to me many photographers buy a lot of gear, bodies, lens and flashes. So is all this gear being used? There also seems a strong trend that as soon as a new camera comes out with good reviews people want to suddenly upgrade. These actions provide a bigger second hand market. The very fact you want to buy gear gives TimPhoto or others the opportunity to sell gear on to those who may want to get into photography or upgrade at good costs, which in turn hopefully brings more people to the forum. Fairplay there are still no advertisements here.

If you don't like the shop window don't go in. If no one buys from people selling who have a history of buying and selling then they will move elsewhere, it's easy to check stats in the profile. You look at people's selling history on Ebay… I hope.., so no one is really being conned.

Re tax you have to be making £8,500 (I think), buying then selling at at a potential loss does not count. I have a thought for you. How many people have had a trade job done for cash to save a few pounds?
Likely you have contributed to their non payment of taxes. Again potential double standards, but that's life.. I'd rather pay the full cost if I know the taxes are being paid.

Just for the record I'm happy for restrictions but make them clear. My thought is to have a posting record of say 6 posts outside the Classifieds before you can sell. I appreciate all posts are hard to Moderate but the way people are selling nowadays is changing rapidly and Moderators should find ways of keeping up.

Well I've got other things to worry about so I hope there is a satisfactory outcome. Happy to contribute in the near future. Regards. 'the other' Tim…
It's good to raise this debate, no harm done…
Ps OMD EM5 in London shops, second hand are going from £449-£549 so I still stand by my original pricing and reasons.


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