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-   -   Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46372)

Invicta 18th October 2017 05:42 PM

Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC. There is a new Lightroom Classic 7 and a new Lightroom CC cloud-based service.

See the Adobe web page for the details:

https://blogs.adobe.com/photoshop/20...-and-more.html

It is also the end of Perpetual Licenses with Lightroom 6.

pdk42 18th October 2017 08:39 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Invicta (Post 430062)
Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC. There is a new Lightroom Classic 7 and a new Lightroom CC cloud-based service.

See the Adobe web page for the details:

https://blogs.adobe.com/photoshop/20...-and-more.html

It is also the end of Perpetual Licenses with Lightroom 6.

What's worrying me is that LR as we know it today (i.e. a big app that runs on your PC, accesses files on your own hard disk and does lots of complex stuff) is now being called LR "Classic". Things that get called classic by software companies are usually on their way to being what the techies call "deprecated" - i.e. on death row. It looks like Adobe are switching their development resources to the new "lite" Lightroom - confusingly called Lightroom CC, the same as the current version.

The new lite version runs only on tablets (Android, iOS) and only works in conjunction with Adobe cloud storage where you need to put your images. The new lite version looks very light (it supports just basic image edits).

I suspect Adobe's version of the future is this:

- We put all our images on their servers in the cloud

- We use a lightweight Lightroom app that runs on tablets and replaces the "classic" app

I don't like this future. I'm OK paying Adobe a reasonable monthly subscription, but my internet connection is nowhere near being fast enough to let me move lots of big raw files to the cloud (and being in backward, Brexit Britain I can't see that improving anytime soon since I'm in a small village 3 miles from a big town and no-one wants to pay to give me fast broadband). Even if I could get over the cloud thing, I really don't want to be using a tablet for image editing.

We'll see how it goes, but if the update cycle on Lightroom Classic dries up then I'll start looking at alternatives.

Invicta 19th October 2017 07:15 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Big changes in Lightroom for sure. Agree some are of concern, others have potential.

Concerns

Vendor lock in. With Lightroom Perpetual Licenses now ended with Lightroom 6 a creative cloud subscription is the only way to keep current.

Lightroom 7 is a change in database, no easy way to go back to Lightroom 6 so worth holding off upgrading until the bugs are ironed out.

Adobe do not have infinite pools of developers so new features in Lightroom 7 look less likely as they focus on CC.

Lightroom CC - once your data is in the cloud it gets really difficult to get it out again.

Hopes

Lightroom Classic workflow to Photoshop is clunky. Lets hope Lightroom CC improves on this.

Lightroom mobile is nice and very useful. I recently did all the editing for a photo journal on the plane home on my iPad.

Alternatives

I am keen to try alternatives and have looked before as Lightroom with Photoshop is so hard work. Key for me is to support Photoshop so looking for a good catalogue alternative. Capture One has poor database capabilities and really does not like to play with Photoshop.

What other alternatives are there to look at?

Walti 19th October 2017 08:02 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Invicta (Post 430092)
Big changes in Lightroom for sure. Agree some are of concern, others have potential.

Concerns

Vendor lock in. With Lightroom Perpetual Licenses now ended with Lightroom 6 a creative cloud subscription is the only way to keep current.

Lightroom 7 is a change in database, no easy way to go back to Lightroom 6 so worth holding off upgrading until the bugs are ironed out.

Adobe do not have infinite pools of developers so new features in Lightroom 7 look less likely as they focus on CC.

Lightroom CC - once your data is in the cloud it gets really difficult to get it out again.

Hopes

Lightroom Classic workflow to Photoshop is clunky. Lets hope Lightroom CC improves on this.

Lightroom mobile is nice and very useful. I recently did all the editing for a photo journal on the plane home on my iPad.

Alternatives

I am keen to try alternatives and have looked before as Lightroom with Photoshop is so hard work. Key for me is to support Photoshop so looking for a good catalogue alternative. Capture One has poor database capabilities and really does not like to play with Photoshop.

What other alternatives are there to look at?

My concerns are slightly different...

Lock-in: In Lightroom you complete non-destructive editing by having the original file from the camera and a sidecar file with the changes logged. How do you move away from Lightroom and maintain all the editing work you've done? Can any other software read and use the Lightroom sidecar files?

Cloud: I use cloud storage for back ups and have no concerns about downloading the files from the Adobe cloud back to my machine, however having invested in one cloud storage system do I really want to have another one? (I'm up to 2TB of remote storage, so purchasing another 2TB seems excessive!)

Mobile: I've not managed to get on very well with the Lightroom mobile app for my phone so I've not used it, however I do need to get to grips with using my laptop in support of the desktop.

Ian 19th October 2017 09:47 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
There is one big hoo-ha going on about the Adobe announcement. I think it's unnecessary. Here is my take:

1. Lightroom as we all know and some of us (me included) love continues as 'Classic'. Adobe is fully committed to its future development.

2. But the reality is that Lightroom was never developed for the majority of today's photographers who now routinely use Interneted connected cameras - mostly mobile phones, but also conventional cameras connected to mobile phones. Adobe had to address these users and its cobbled-together Lightroom (Classic) extensions to link Lightroom on the desktop to Lightroom Mobile, simply wasn't the answer. Lightroom CC is designed to solve this problem.

3. Lightroom CC looks like a cut down version of Classic but this mainly for two reasons; Classic is complex, arguably too complex for many of us. Let's face it, who hasn't at some times become a bit scared of the complexities of LR catalogues, where the files are stored and managed, collections, etc. CC simplified all that and adds in the rather amazing Sensei AI-based content search tool to help you find images you are looking for in the cloud. CC is also very new so it doesn't yet have a number of features we take for granted on 'old' Lightroom. Many of these are in the pipeline.

4. CC has a lot of default advantages: you no longer need to manage your image library on local drives. Of course you can (should) retain originals offline, the ones stored on the cloud will be secure and accessible from anywhere that has a decent Internet connection. It should be mentioned that you can edit local files using CC before they are synchronised to the cloud, so there is no limitation there. Being on the cloud (I believe - need to verify) not only means you don't have to cart around a huge hard drive with you but my understanding is that much of the CPU intensive processing is going to be cloud-based so you won't need a battery-sapping heavyweight device to do your Lightroom work any more.

Conclusion:

I certainly won't stop using Lightroom Classic. I have a couple of TB of images and I don't see these all being uploaded to the cloud any time soon. However, I can see myself using Lightroom CC for future work. So I am likely going to be using Classic and CC in parallel. Maybe a hybrid release of Lightroom is what I'd like :)

Ian

OM USer 19th October 2017 10:05 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
It would appear that they are trying very hard to mix the social media element of photography with classic photography workflows and photographic manipulation, and I think this is a good thing for serious photographers and the industry in general.

My broadband download speeds may be great but my upload speeds are horrendously slow and my mobile upload speed is almost non existant; maybe this is different elsewhere in the world. Until that changes I could not adopt any true cloud based service (i.e. remote) for large scale digital image manipulation or storage... and don't forget that Olympus RAW files are small in comparison to some.

Ricoh 19th October 2017 10:20 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
I know I can sound a bit like a broken record at times... this constant change is driven by accountants looking at increasing the bottom line. There is a way to get off the treadmill to some extent, buy or better still resurrect your old film camera and buy a scanner.

The Leica M3 was introduced in 1954 and is still as relevant today as it was over 60 years ago. All that's needed is a CLA every 10 years or so, and it will still be relevant in another 60 years.

Ok, if you're a committed digital photographer (I use both technologies), why upgrade every time a new camera is introduced. There's no need. Just like a car, run it into the ground.

Ian 19th October 2017 10:29 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
I am fortunate in that I have a full Adobe CC subscription. I have updated the CC App manager and I can now install both Classic and CC. So you can run both at the same time and I have read that if you do then CC can actually feed cloud images to Classic. So they are complementary. The full CC sub nets you 100GB of cloud storage but I have not yet found a way of increasing that, so the idea of uploading your (in my case terabytes) of conventional LR originals to the cloud looks like a non-starter. It may be that one would have to be rather more fastidious concerning pruning out unneeded images from your cloud library - no bad thing in my case!

Ian

**Update - there is a Lightroom CC plan with 1TB of storage.

pdk42 19th October 2017 11:46 AM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 430107)
There is one big hoo-ha going on about the Adobe announcement. I think it's unnecessary. Here is my take:

1. Lightroom as we all know and some of us (me included) love continues as 'Classic'. Adobe is fully committed to its future development.

2. But the reality is that Lightroom was never developed for the majority of today's photographers who now routinely use Interneted connected cameras - mostly mobile phones, but also conventional cameras connected to mobile phones. Adobe had to address these users and its cobbled-together Lightroom (Classic) extensions to link Lightroom on the desktop to Lightroom Mobile, simply wasn't the answer. Lightroom CC is designed to solve this problem.

3. Lightroom CC looks like a cut down version of Classic but this mainly for two reasons; Classic is complex, arguably too complex for many of us. Let's face it, who hasn't at some times become a bit scared of the complexities of LR catalogues, where the files are stored and managed, collections, etc. CC simplified all that and adds in the rather amazing Sensei AI-based content search tool to help you find images you are looking for in the cloud. CC is also very new so it doesn't yet have a number of features we take for granted on 'old' Lightroom. Many of these are in the pipeline.

4. CC has a lot of default advantages: you no longer need to manage your image library on local drives. Of course you can (should) retain originals offline, the ones stored on the cloud will be secure and accessible from anywhere that has a decent Internet connection. It should be mentioned that you can edit local files using CC before they are synchronised to the cloud, so there is no limitation there. Being on the cloud (I believe - need to verify) not only means you don't have to cart around a huge hard drive with you but my understanding is that much of the CPU intensive processing is going to be cloud-based so you won't need a battery-sapping heavyweight device to do your Lightroom work any more.

Conclusion:

I certainly won't stop using Lightroom Classic. I have a couple of TB of images and I don't see these all being uploaded to the cloud any time soon. However, I can see myself using Lightroom CC for future work. So I am likely going to be using Classic and CC in parallel. Maybe a hybrid release of Lightroom is what I'd like :)

Ian

Thanks for that analysis Ian. I hope you are right in that LR Classic will continue to be developed. Maybe I'm being unfair to tablet-based apps, but I really can't see me ever replacing a decent desktop + big screen with one.

As for cloud - I've no issue in principle with it, but there are a few essential points that need to be addressed before I'd see it working for my personal needs:

- Sufficient internet bandwidth. Whilst people in big cities are getting symmetrical 80Mbps+ capacity there are huge swaths of the country where ADSL is the only option. That means a few Mbps of downstream and a couple of hundred kbps upstream if you're lucky. I'm officially on "superfast fibre" - but because I'm about 3 miles from the cabinet my upload speed is about 220kbps and download is around 10Mbps. I doubt this will improve anytime soon since the government don't see it as a priority (preferring to spend 50bn on a railway we don't need, or I dare say a similar sum to the EU on the divorce bill).

- Long-term trust with the cloud provider. Trust means techie stuff like reliability, performance etc - but it also means that the T&Cs can't be pulled from under our feet with too little notice. If I've got hundreds of GB or more of data and if my cloud provider decides to crank up fees or reduce service levels then the cost and disruption of moving would be enormous.

- Multiple cloud providers and lock-in - if I end up with a cloud for photos, a cloud for office docs, a cloud for music, a cloud for videos etc then I'l likely be paying a fortune for it. And of course each provider will do their damnedest to lock me in. There needs to be more of an open market for cloud that means there is effective competition. Maybe one day there will be regulation like there is in other utility services but I suspect that is some way off.

I'm sure I'll end up using them at some point since that's the way the whole IT market is moving but I suspect I'll be dragged there screaming!

Walti 19th October 2017 12:05 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Its beginning to sound like I may get what I need/want.

LR Classic on the desktop and Lightroom cloud on the laptop so in-field editing can be completed and synchronised with the cloud and then on to the desktop... therefore a minimal amount of cloud storage is needed 100GB sounds fine...

All dependant on fast internet access from the laptop of course!

pvasc 19th October 2017 03:39 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Affinity photo? I have it on the laptop, not played with it much because I am used to LR. Only $40. I am angered by the move to the cloud. I do not like it, it hooks the customer for life.

Great for Pro's running a business, but I feel they have abandoned the amateur photographer that has neither the cash, nor the internet speed/bandwidth to use CC.

I am sure there are other, perhaps better, photo editing software programs out, those will perhaps pick up the photographers Adobe abandoned.

As far as Cloud computing goes...keep in mind that these huge data centers now contribute as much to global carbon emissions as the airlines, 2%, and is forecast to double by 2020 (Turban, Volonino, & Wood, 2015).

Gwyver 19th October 2017 05:49 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Walti (Post 430098)
My concerns are slightly different...

Lock-in: In Lightroom you complete non-destructive editing by having the original file from the camera and a sidecar file with the changes logged. How do you move away from Lightroom and maintain all the editing work you've done? Can any other software read and use the Lightroom sidecar files?

The 'Lock-in' issue has existed ever since Lightroom was first released. You can export processed images from Lightroom as DNG files (with/without the original RAW file embedded) and so don't need the sidecar files to be read.
I think ON1 and DXO OpticsPro can use DNG - no doubt there are others.

There are debates about whether DNG degrades the data originating from the original RAW file - this article from Martin Evening may help you decide. Note that much of it is about the merits of converting your RAW files to DNG on import to Lightroom.
https://blogs.adobe.com/photoshop/20...and-myths.html

BTaberham 19th October 2017 08:50 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
I saw this coming a while back and moved to Affinity for my RAW editing as a result. It's a shame that Adobe couldn't be trusted when they assured us that they would still offer it as a standalone product without the licensing, for those of use like me who can't quite justify that monthly expenditure it makes the alternatives far more attractive

MargaretR 19th October 2017 08:54 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pvasc (Post 430148)
Affinity photo? I have it on the laptop, not played with it much because I am used to LR. Only $40.

Serif are rumoured to be working on an Affinity digital asset management product, which could be their pot-shot at LR. If it's as good as Affinity Photo is at doing what PS does (but a lot more cheaply), then it could be worth trying when it does appear. No idea when that will be, though.

pdk42 19th October 2017 08:55 PM

Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC
 
Well, it seems it might be the end of the road for me with LR... but for stupid compatibility issues.

I'm trying to upgrade my LR to the new "Classic CC" version but it's not being listed as an update in the Creative Cloud desktop app. I've been through the steps described here:

https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-clo...available.html

but none work.

However, I did look at the system requirements and it seems that on Windows you need Windows 10 (64-bit) Version 1511 or later. The laptop I use is maintained by my company's IT dept and it seems it's running Version 1507. What's worse, my own desktop PC is running Windows 7.

I have no control of what our corporate IT guys do and I hate Win 10. Win 7 is such a more aesthetic and smoother experience IMHO.

So, it seems that I'm locked out of LR upgrades from now on.... sigh.

Time to check out DxO.


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