Olympus UK E-System User Group

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-   Olympus OM-D E-M1 (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=65)
-   -   E-M1 not vs, but also D750. (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38794)

Dave in Wales 29th July 2015 05:40 AM

E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
I didn't think it was fair to title this "E-M1 vs D750", it was such a rough-arsed unscientific comparison.

I was considering adding an FX to the stable in the form of a Nikon D750.....the lure of full-frame, don't ya know.

But it's not to be, I'll stick with my 'GREAT' E-M1 thank you.

The D750 is a beaut, if a house brick can be beautiful that is, NO seriously I loved it.
It's big yes, not as heavy as I anticipated and the 'grip' is to die for, it felt part of my hand.

But I was expecting 'magical' things from FX in the way of IQ, sadly I'm disappointed.

The comparison test, as I said was unscientific and rushed, both cameras were hand held.

Cameras..
E-M1 + 12-40 Pro @ 25mm
Nikon D750 + A-FS 50mm f1.8 G, reckoned to be one of their best primes.

Shots are OOC jpgs, 100% crops, resized NOT sharpened.

The FLY was not focused on in either shot, just the petals.

Nikon
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/493/2...03ffae66_o.jpgDSC_0005-100% by Dave in Wales, on Flickr

E-M1
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/557/1...46ff69ed_o.jpgP7280626-100% by Dave in Wales, on Flickr

IanB 29th July 2015 06:07 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
full frame is great for BIG enlargements and BIG crops; after that they are just another photography tool imo. The best lenses [read expensive]are needed to get the best from the larger sensor.
How do I know that? There's a FF canon 5d11/flash/2 L lenses *zzz in my cupboard

Too many worry too much about file quality instead of their photography quality *yes.

Dave in Wales 29th July 2015 08:06 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IanB (Post 353936)
full frame is great for BIG enlargements and BIG crops; after that they are just another photography tool imo. The best lenses [read expensive]are needed to get the best from the larger sensor.
How do I know that? There's a FF canon 5d11/flash/2 L lenses *zzz in my cupboard

Too many worry too much about file quality instead of their photography quality *yes.

Oh, I doooo like that.

It would make a good mantra..."Don't worry about the file quality, worry about the photography quality"

damianmkv 29th July 2015 09:55 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
got to agree with Ian - I've spent too long pixel peeping. Now its more about the feel of the shot then whether its 110% sharp when cropped within an inch of its life

David Morison 29th July 2015 11:45 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
The two images aren't comparable as the DOF is huge on the E-M1 compared to the Nikon. The Nikon image also has other OOF problems, I could get a much better image from my iPhone so something went terribly wrong there. Rough comparisons don't ever work IMO without some science involved and comparing ooc jpegs is fraught with difficulties, did you have a decent time (=weeks) to get to grips with the Nikon and it's settings?

David

TonyR 29th July 2015 11:56 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
The E-M1 image is appears to be significantly over-exposed compared to the D750. Getting images with areas over-exposed is something that I suffer from with my E-M1. I'm not sure if it is the metering in the E-M1 or a dynamic range issue, probably the latter. I found a similar thing this summer when comparing images of the same subject with a relative using a 5DIII. Areas that were dark in my images were full of detail in his and I had blown highlights!

I now routinely shoot with minus half a stop of compensation. It doesn't help the shadows but at least the subject isn't blown out.

benvendetta 29th July 2015 12:32 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR (Post 353969)
The E-M1 image is appears to be significantly over-exposed compared to the D750. Getting images with areas over-exposed is something that I suffer from with my E-M1. I'm not sure if it is the metering in the E-M1 or a dynamic range issue, probably the latter. I found a similar thing this summer when comparing images of the same subject with a relative using a 5DIII. Areas that were dark in my images were full of detail in his and I had blown highlights!

I now routinely shoot with minus half a stop of compensation. It doesn't help the shadows but at least the subject isn't blown out.

I shoot the same way generally and have done since I shot slide film (but a third of a stop under).

Dave in Wales 29th July 2015 12:33 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by damianmkv (Post 353953)
got to agree with Ian - I've spent too long pixel peeping. Now its more about the feel of the shot then whether its 110% sharp when cropped within an inch of its life

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Morison (Post 353965)
The two images aren't comparable as the DOF is huge on the E-M1 compared to the Nikon. The Nikon image also has other OOF problems, I could get a much better image from my iPhone so something went terribly wrong there. Rough comparisons don't ever work IMO without some science involved and comparing ooc jpegs is fraught with difficulties, did you have a decent time (=weeks) to get to grips with the Nikon and it's settings?

David

Please lets not take this comparison too seriously.

I went into the garden with two cameras and took a pictures with each.

I used the Oly as I would when taking my usual pictures and the Nik likewise.

No concessions were made for either camera.

To reiterate....It's the GREAT E-M1 for me.

Saved myself about 1700 as well, quick wot lens/s can I buy, M4/3 of course.
*chr

Graham_of_Rainham 29th July 2015 12:45 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
My often used method of comparative "testing" is to use the camera "straight out the box or do a factory reset. This approach is completely contrary to most ways of testing, but provides a benchmark from which I can adjust (dial in) the system to the results I want.

Exposure variation is a classic area that needs far more consideration than people give it. If you ever get the chance to use a hand held meter and do some comparisons with what the camera is setting, it can be quite an eyeopener to just how much difference the subject makes to the exposure settings determined by the camera, when the light is exactly the same.

Different systems do it differently (obviously :o ) so no surprise that they produce such a variation in the end result.

I've not tried the D750 so cannot comment, but I'd like to see just what difference there is when comparing like for like comparison. Not that it would get me to invest in a new system, but just out of interest...

pdk42 29th July 2015 01:54 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
I'd be very surprised if the D750 isn't capable (in the right hands) of delivering a better IQ than the E-M1 - in resolution, noise and DR. Whether these differences matter for what any particular photographer uses the camera for is quite another matter. For me, the E-M1 is (mostly) good enough. Lower noise and improved DR would be nice to have and I'm really hoping that the E-M1 mk ii delivers that.

Alpha1 29th July 2015 02:41 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
The whole process of photography is very complex and personal.

When I used a Leica R9 film camera with a digital back (DMR) I used to read so much about the so called "Leica Glow" and couldn't for the life of me either see it our understand it!

Many years have since passed as have many different digital cameras through my ownership. Sony full frame, Sony APS-C, Fuji X100, Fuji X-Pro 1, and of course my Oly E-M5, then E-M1 (x2). They all have had their idiosyncrasies but changes have largely occurred for changes in preferred subject types and/or an ageing owner/user.

However, recently I had reason to look back on my collection of exhibition and competition prints, all around the "old" traditional size of 16" x 12" print on a 20" x 16" mount. I haven't looked at them in this way for many, many years.

Guess what, I could immediately see the "Leica glow" not on all the prints made from the Leica camera/lens but on quite a large number. More interestingly I could see nothing like it on any of the prints from any of the other camera/lens types.

The Leica DMR's Kodak sensor was just 10 mpx versus the Sony FF at 24mpx, Leica R lenses vs Sony/Zeiss lenses.

This apparent "glow" seemed to be a clarity that is missing on all the other prints, all made with similar Epson high grade printers.

The counter to this of course is that the Leica lenses are all manual with no auto focus and with advancing years I could never go back to manual focus other than for macro work where modern cameras are so helpful with magnified views and focus peaking. My conclusion to all of this is that the best camera is the one that you enjoy using most! ;)

Dave in Wales 29th July 2015 03:47 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdk42 (Post 353985)
I'd be very surprised if the D750 isn't capable (in the right hands) of delivering a better IQ than the E-M1 - in resolution, noise and DR. Whether these differences matter for what any particular photographer uses the camera for is quite another matter. For me, the E-M1 is (mostly) good enough. Lower noise and improved DR would be nice to have and I'm really hoping that the E-M1 mk ii delivers that.

I am not suggesting otherwise for one moment.

I took two cameras, went into the garden and took two pictures. The procedure was exactly the same.

One set of results satisfied me, one did not.

That's all there is to it.

RogerMac 29th July 2015 05:16 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
I have a Canon 6D and an E5 in addition to mFT and my considered opinion is that if a direct comparison is possible (i.e. reasonable light) there is very little practical difference between the formats. The reason I bought (and keep) the 6D is that I can get images in almost total darkness with the 6D that look extremely good. I believe that the Nikon FX range is not as good as the Canon so this may not apply to the OP.

Incidentally I use the E5 a lot for telephoto work, attached to the ZD 70-300, as I could not carry let alone afford the equivalent Canon stabalised 600mm lens

Daveart 29th July 2015 05:52 PM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Hi has anybody seen then dynamic range from em5 and the Nikon d700 Sony a7 and another can
't remember that one, but the dynamic range was far better than these at there base iso settings.

I would have thought the em1 would be equal or better than the em5.

IanB 30th July 2015 02:08 AM

Re: E-M1 not vs, but also D750.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by damianmkv (Post 353953)
got to agree with Ian - I've spent too long pixel peeping. Now its more about the feel of the shot then whether its 110% sharp when cropped within an inch of its life

gear has advances so much now that we should be all past the pixel thing. My nikon d100 was something 6 mega pixels and we printed and sold 24-30 inch photos from the jpg files

Even peter eastway said we only really need 20 mp; although he does use a phase one!! I certainly don't have any need any more than em1 these days; however those bigger sensors are better in the very low light


Some gear quotes I have collected or thought up.

>>There are no bad cameras these days however some are better than others

>>Better gear doesn't = better photography

>>By Darwin Wigget
The one thing I do know is that if I shoot with a 45, a medium format film camera, a point-n-shoot digital or film camera, or a high end DSLR that my photos still end up all looking the same. I have not yet found a camera that improves my photography!! Doh!
Doh! Seems that the person behind the lens really has a lot to do with what the camera does go figure eh?

>>We (me too in the past) tend to waste so much money trying to buy better photography

>>when learning: less gear = less confusion = less bad photos


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