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-   -   The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44207)

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 11:49 AM

The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
This has the potential to have a long-running story, maybe a book or film. At any rate, it is going to be an expensive production. (Serial rights copyright!).

The photographic relevance, so far anyway is zero. So maybe it will broaden your mind (and will definitely shrink my bank balance).
In June 2014 I purchased a Peugeot 307 2 litre Peugeot 307 estate. Why?

1) My Cavalier was in its 30th year and was unlikely to last much longer.

2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new (as with my Cavalier)

3) It had only 4,700 miles on the clock and the price was 2,300.

4) The wisdom *laugh*laugh*laugh from the government was that diesels were less polluting than petrol cars and would be favoured.

Not long after I started running it, I was off on a local trip when there was a “Ping” and a warning came up on the digital dashboard display “Blocked Fuel Filter” together with a little yellow diagram of an engine (in case I didn’t know what an engine was). I aborted my journey, fearing that the computer might soon stop the engine, and returned home to consult the internet.

I learned that a motorway-speed steady drive of 20+ minutes was needed for some additive in the fuel system to be brought into action and burn off any blocking residues. I dutifully complied, not being sure that I would get that far.

As the months passed, I got accustomed to these warning flashing up every week. I found that, if I kept driving, they went away. So, no need for motorway trips! Clearly, the magic fluid was doing its work.

This week, the day before the MOT, the warning came on again. I had a vague concern that this might just tip the emissions out of compliance.

I delivered my car at 8.30 am. There was no phone call from the garage that morning. As I had booked a service to follow the MOT, it seemed that all was going well. Then the call came.

Not only had it failed on emissions but they had to remove 4 litres of excess engine oil before they could work on it. A code had indicated that the additive tank for the filter cleaning was empty. My garage lacked the special tools to access the tank so I would have to take it to a Peugeot dealer.:eek::eek::eek:

When I collected the car, I was asked about the excess oil. I had no answer and, jokingly, suggested that the engine had pumped fuel in there.

I went home and contacted the only Peugeot dealer in town. I tried to speak to the servicing department but could only get an offer to call me back. (I was told they were having an extremely busy day). After an hour, I phoned again to see if they had forgotten me. No luck.

After a further hour, I phoned again and got through to someone who apologised, explaining that they were on man short. I described my problem and, very much to my surprise, he offered me a wide choice of times/days to book my car in, with me opting for two days later.

This was for a computer diagnosis, to cost just under 100. Depending on the outcome of that, they would then order the fluid for the additive tank.

I did some more research this morning and found that I should have seen error messages for the additive getting low and then one for it being empty. In the complete absence of these, I called back and asked them to check for a dysfunctional sensor. I also, having read horror stories* asked them to check for fuel in the engine oil.

*I have read complaints that a failed filter cleaning cycle has led to fuel being forced “into the engine”

I have seen comments on the internet about a tank refill requiring 5L at 30/L. Oh, joy!

This system has been described, in various places, as the biggest load of merde ever designed.

That is the current state of play. More news on Friday.

Harold

joglos 2nd February 2017 12:23 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
I was talking to a reputable car salesman the other day, he said that diesel cars after 2009 have a system that really needs it to be driven at least 9000 miles a year otherwise problems will happen like you have stated, he said they get loads in with the problem. I was looking for a car for a friend who does less miles than that, so i guess she will have to get a petrol.
Really hope yours is sorted quickly and at not too much expense.

lostp 2nd February 2017 12:31 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?

I think the additive that you are referring to is Adblue :)

Olybirder 2nd February 2017 12:34 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lostp (Post 405733)
Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?

As it cost 2,300 I suspect it was second hand. :)

Ron

Olybirder 2nd February 2017 12:41 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
When I bought my present car I decided to get a petrol powered model, despite having had a diesel before, as I only drive about 7,000 miles a year now. I had read too many horror stories about DPF problems arising from low mileage use. My previous diesel was too old to have a DPF, so the mileage wasn't an issue.

I prefer the quicker warm up time of the petrol car but miss the torque and slightly better mpg of the diesel.

Ron

pdk42 2nd February 2017 12:56 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
The additive is not Adblu, but something called Eolys. Adblu is basically Urea solution and is used as part of a selective reduction catalytic converter process - which is designed to reduce NOx levels by turning them back to N2. Adblu is injected into the cat, not the engine. Eolys OTOH is designed to reduced particulates by improving combustion in the cylinder so it's added to the fuel each time you fill up.

If the Eolys is depleted, then you'll clog up your DPF which will need long runs to clear it and in the longer term probably force an early replacement. None of this should cause fuel to get into the engine oil - that's a much more serious issue.

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:01 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joglos (Post 405732)
I was talking to a reputable car salesman the other day, he said that diesel cars after 2009 have a system that really needs it to be driven at least 9000 miles a year otherwise problems will happen like you have stated, he said they get loads in with the problem. I was looking for a car for a friend who does less miles than that, so i guess she will have to get a petrol.
Really hope yours is sorted quickly and at not too much expense.

I do just over 1,000 mpa.

I was planning to drive it one holidays to mainland Europe but my wife was nervous about travel when she was put under treatment for heart problems but this year could be the year.

Harold

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:03 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lostp (Post 405733)
Is it not under warranty if you purchased it in 2914? Or was it second hand?

I think the additive that you are referring to is Adblue :)

2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new "

Harold

Naughty Nigel 2nd February 2017 01:04 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Hmmm.

JLR had problems with some earlier diesel engines (specifically the 2.7 litre V6) when these were first fitted with a DPF system. The engine and DPF system was developed by Ford in conjunction with Jaguar and Land Rover (then owned by Ford), Citroen, Peugeot and others.

The DPF system is of course designed to remove particulate matter from the exhaust gasses. When this become full it is effectively 'regenerated' by injecting diesel fuel oil during the exhaust stroke which in turn burns the sooty deposits that have collected in the DPF. Add Blue is a sticky material which improves the efficiency of the filtration process.

The DPF system works well, but the DPF needs to regenerate at a reasonable speed, not in nose to tail traffic. There have also been numerous reported problems where 'failed regenerations' result in fuel oil finding its way into the crankcase. This is what seems to have happened in your case. The main worry is that the fuel oil (diesel) will have diluted the lubrication oil in the crank case, resulting in accelerated wear.

I had several free oil changes on JLR's account because the oil level had risen above the Maximum mark!

JLR overcame the problem by updating software in the engine's ECU, although the advice to this day is not to fill the engine to the maximum mark to allow space for some fuel oil.

I only cover about 6,000 miles per year in my car, but these are mainly long journeys. I have never seen a DPF warning yet.

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:04 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Olybirder (Post 405734)
As it cost 2,300 I suspect it was second hand. :)

Ron

"2) The Peugeot was from a family member who had owned it from new "

Harold

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:06 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdk42 (Post 405738)
The additive is not Adblu, but something called Eolys. Adblu is basically Urea solution and is used as part of a selective reduction catalytic converter process - which is designed to reduce NOx levels by turning them back to N2. Adblu is injected into the cat, not the engine. Eolys OTOH is designed to reduced particulates by improving combustion in the cylinder so it's added to the fuel each time you fill up.

If the Eolys is depleted, then you'll clog up your DPF which will need long runs to clear it and in the longer term probably force an early replacement. None of this should cause fuel to get into the engine oil - that's a much more serious issue.

The service department man I spoke to seemed to think that which additive it was for that model was far from obvious but that may have been misleading.

Harold

steverh 2nd February 2017 01:07 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
I changed from a pre-2009 diesel to a petrol car just over a year ago. I was due for a change and decided against diesel for a number of reasons:

1. The sort of pollutants that diesels emit are no longer acceptable if you live and mainly drive in an urban environment, as I do.

2. Modern petrol engines are very efficient and you need to do a huge amount of miles to recoup the extra cost of a diesel car despite the better mpg. I'm now retired and doing less miles per year.

3. Long term reliability might be better (I hope!)

I was concerned about lack of torque but the modern three cylinder turbo petrol engines are very good.

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:11 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 405741)
Hmmm.

JLR had problems with some earlier diesel engines (specifically the 2.7 litre V6) when these were first fitted with a DPF system. The engine and DPF system was developed by Ford in conjunction with Jaguar and Land Rover (then owned by Ford), Citroen, Peugeot and others.

The DPF system is of course designed to remove particulate matter from the exhaust gasses. When this become full it is effectively 'regenerated' by injecting diesel fuel oil during the exhaust stroke which in turn burns the sooty deposits that have collected in the DPF. Add Blue is a sticky material which improves the efficiency of the filtration process.

The DPF system works well, but the DPF needs to regenerate at a reasonable speed, not in nose to tail traffic. There have also been numerous reported problems where 'failed regenerations' result in fuel oil finding its way into the crankcase. This is what seems to have happened in your case. The main worry is that the fuel oil (diesel) will have diluted the lubrication oil in the crank case, resulting in accelerated wear.

I had several free oil changes on JLR's account because the oil level had risen above the Maximum mark!

JLR overcame the problem by updating software in the engine's ECU, although the advice to this day is not to fill the engine to the maximum mark to allow space for some fuel oil.

I only cover about 6,000 miles per year in my car, but these are mainly long journeys. I have never seen a DPF warning yet.

Thanks Nigel.

I almost never travel in nose to tail traffic. About half my journeys would be at 30mph and half at 50-60mph. None of there are long. In the warmer months I would have a few longer (10 miles+EW) trips at the higher speeds.

Harold

Harold Gough 2nd February 2017 01:13 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steverh (Post 405744)
I was concerned about lack of torque but the modern three cylinder turbo petrol engines are very good.

Were you towing? I have never had an issue with power in a petrol car, typically a 1600.

Harold

steverh 2nd February 2017 01:26 PM

Re: The Peugeot Diesel Pollutant Saga
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harold Gough (Post 405746)
Were you towing? I have never had an issue with power in a petrol car, typically a 1600.

Harold

No, but I liked the relaxed style of driving without lots of gear changing (never been one for automatics).


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