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Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3
Interesting points.
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/...try-point.html My M5 with the 15mm is doing a great job |
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Yawn...…………….*zzz
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Well I don't think he points out the great pixel density on the 20 MP sensors making it ideal for bird photography with the right lens.
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He also misses out the fact that not everyone wants to lug around a huge Canikony DSLR and lens. I moved to M43 from Canon (7D2 & 100-400L2) purely because of the loss of bulk and weight and so far have no regrets (other than perhaps they evf!). Loving it, below the bar or not.
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Nope, not even close. I've never spent and probably never will spend that kind of money on a body and I consider myself a keen amateur not a general "consumer". |
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Pointless pixel-chasing. What matters is not the number of pixels you have, but the quality of those pixels. For the vast majority of people, the snapshooters, a phone camera is good enough. For the more serious photographers who have more understanding it's not down to pixel count. It's using the kit you're comfortable with and which gets you the results you want. I have no wish (or ability!) to lug a huge camera around and that's the major reason why I bought into Olympus back in the 70s. When I used film I chose Agfa APX25 and Kodachrome 25 for their quality but would sacrifice quality for ISO when I needed it because ISO25 is, let's be honest, a bit limiting!
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Feeding the troll...…………….:eek:
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Pretty much what I'd expect from an obviously pro Nikon guy. Just set the bar at a point so that you can make an argument and be very black and white about it. He is right about one thing though where is the long zoom (1" or M4/3s?) compact to replace the Stylus 1. Definitely a hole I feel Olympus should fill and could fill easily with their existing tech just rebundled.
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Pany lens is great, but lacks the compatibility with the body. Which makes the 40-150 pro really work well. |
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Yep I agree with that too Mark, that Panny lens is on my potential shopping list unless Oly do bring one out. Interesting comment actually I only thought it was the pro capture L setting that wasn't compatible are there more issues?
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Oh well, if what he says is true and Olympus really is doomed it solves the problem of how to fund this site. There will be no demand for an Olympus users' forum. Every cloud ..... ;)
Ron |
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He seems to equate success with numbers (the higher the better) when it should be results.
At least he acknowledges that mirrorless is the future, which we have believed all along. |
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That's a relief, at least I now know it's my gear that's below the bar and not my ability :)
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Sadly, for the manufacturers, sales numbers are rather important and, if the sales charts show that pixels matter, they will play to this market. Most manufacturers have to make their profits away from those products that appeal to discerning users - these are a minority. A few, like Leica, can work on 'prestige brand image' but that's a very long game, only accessible to a few and not easy to maintain. It used to be lens aperture. A basic 35mm film camera had to have an f/2.8 lens - quality was almost irrelevant but f/3.5 simply would not sell. |
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Life is always a compromise... many people are quite happy using their mobile phones as cameras, while others sneer at anything less than medium format.
I've used many film formats over the years, from 110, to 35mm to 120/620, with cameras from a Box Brownie to Mamiya 654s to Canon EOS. When I went digital I put my toe in the water with a Canon Powershot, before selling my Mamiya 645 gear and Canon EOS bodies to adopt Canon Digital EOS. But eventually I decided the size and weight of my outfit was putting me off actually taking it with me and using it fully, so I moved to M4/3. It's the right compromise for me at my time of life, others might have different needs or fashion statements to make. But if it's good enough for professional photographers then I'm happy to be committed to the format! Chris |
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Mark j |
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I think it was 'Uncle' Ken Rockwell who said shoot 'real' RAW. Sounds good to me!
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Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3
For what it's worth, I think Hogan's right. There's no good technological reason why m43 should be languishing at 16 or 20 Mp. The Sony 1" BSI sensors (RX100 et al) are at 20Mp but have an area approx 55% of m43. The same tech on a m43-sized sensor would give us approx 36Mp. That would be nice :) . And before someone says that more Mp means more noise, I'll just add a few points:
- The RX100 is scarcely any worse than m43. The same pixel density, with the same per-pixel noise, but scaled up to a 36Mp m43 sensor would mean equivalent enlargements would show notably less noise than today's m43 sensors. - The 42Mp A7Rii delivers very similar image-level noise on real-world enlargements as the 12Mp A7Sii. Truth be known, progress in m43 sensors since the EM5 of 2012 has been very slow. I personally would really like a significant improvement in m43 sensor performance. Can I make decent images with what I have today? - yes, I think so. Does the overall m43 system today offer things that other systems don't - yes, but you have to take a detailed look to realise it. Does m43 look competitive against other systems - I think increasingly less so; which is the point Hogan is making. |
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Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3
Bigger and bigger files...…………..Unsure of the optimum, but I was always very pleased with my Pentax Ist 6Mp...…..But of course I could not do half as much cropping with that size.....My present 20Mp seems PDG....How far do we go. I guess progress in 10 years time might have an almost infinite sensor, things we dare not dream about...………….:confused::confused:
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Here we go - 'My camera has more pixels than yours'. Didn't we have this years ago when we used film? 'My Canon is better than your Nikon', '35mm!!, medium format is far superior', etc..... I've used many different systems and makes over the years, bought with a specific job in mind. Medium format for weddings, 35mm for when I was hill walking, compacts for a 'carry everywhere' camera and so on. When the bride and groom were looking at their wedding photos, they never asked what camera or film did I use, the results said it all. I use olympus m43 and it suits me just fine. In fact, if people bought a camera they needed and not wanted, there'd be a lot more compacts around.
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I think PDK 42 makes realistic comments but I do notice that many move to 4/3 as they get older and want smaller gear . I go that way myself using the larger Nikons when the punter pays but using the oly when I am relaxing.
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Pistnbroke - I agree! I think the benefits of m43 tend to become apparent to experienced photographers who understand a few important points:
- They understand that ultimate image IQ is not the only parameter when comparing camera systems. If their m43 cameras deliver "very very good" IQ, then that's good enough for nearly all of what they do. It's the image that matters. - They value the wider features of the camera system as a whole. They value compactness, a huge range of excellent lenses, class-leading image stabilisation, superb feature set, and excellent support from two active and innovative manufacturers. - They have the experience and skills to work around what IQ limitations remain. This could be knowing how to use image stabilisation well, how to stack images, or how to expose and process raw files properly. - They appreciate that the ergonomics and usability of a camera is a huge part of making them WANT to take images. They know that big and heavy kit tends to get left on the shelf, and that fancy cameras with great IQ lose their appeal if the usability and ownership experience isn't right. However, relative newcomers find these arguments too subtle and not readily understood since they are hard to measure objectively and their true value needs experience to properly appreciate. Olympus and Panasonic need to attract these photographers and unfortunately that means they need to keep up in the sensor race since that measure is what is easily marketed and what newbies will look to when they are comparing systems. Truth be known, the four thirds system was dead by 2012. The E-M5 changed the game and size was only a part of that. The Sony 16Mp sensor lifted mage quality to the equal or better of APS-C at the time. But there has been too little evolution since then. All the subsequent 16Mp sensors add essentially nothing to the E-M5's raw handling. The 20Mp sensors add a little - but it's marginal. I personally think this IS a big challenge for Olympus and Panasonic - which is Hogan's point. |
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It’s a shame, because 8 years ago he wrote and thought well for Nikon owners. |
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It's good that people comment to correct misunderstandings like his here because he does not permit comments - at least if people see this thread they can see that all he has offered is an opinion - not a fact at all Regards Andy |
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3
Yes, mis-perceptions die hard, that is true.
However it’s very difficult to form a mis-perception of the weight differences among different brands and sensor sizes once you’ve tried them, and as has been said already, a lot of enthusiasts (in what is a grey and ageing population) are willing to give m4/3 a try. Such people are influential on their less enthusiastic friends, of course. I know of 12 M1ii sales in the past 18 months in our camera club of 190 people, and there may be more. No, my main criticism of Grumpy Old Git Hogan’s article is that he’s done no research on anything relevant - for example, he’s done nothing on camera sales among the manufacturers, and selectively quotes vague, ballpark figures that (strangely enough) support his argument. These data are indeed hard to find, but they are out there in the manufacturers’ financial statements, but he couldn’t be bothered to dig them out (neither can I, but I’m not pretending to be an expert). What’s actually happening to Oly/Sony/Fuji etc CSC sales in the past 12 months? BTW the Sony RX100 series do indeed produce very usable 20mp images in low light and are marketed heavily on that, but anyone who’s used one and who likes shooting in contrasty light knows that their dynamic range in real life usage is pretty woeful compared to even the most basic 16mp m4/3 sensors. Another triumph for marketing over reality, of course: once your highlights have gone they’ve gone. |
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Watched the Time Machine programme on Horizon last night. If I could travel to the past Digital Cameras would instantly disappear from the present. |
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For the above appalling customer service, I'd never buy a Sony product! Jim |
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There are a number of alarming Sony stories. The one about their cameras being "weather resistant" when actually they leak water like the Titanic is about the worst.
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Who is Thoms Hogan? Forget it, I don't want to know, the footy is on soon:-)
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There are photographers and those that write articles that slag off whatever it is they are paid to do...
Fortunately those on this site have broad shoulders and duck like backs, which comes from having lightweight and waterproof kit... :D |
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Ian |
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