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-   -   The Minefield of Energy Providers (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48899)

Jim Ford 3rd October 2018 08:10 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459205)
Jeez Jim, life’s too short!

Yes, and once I consider myself clean and rinsed, I dry myself and get on with it.

;)

Jim

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 09:29 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford (Post 459203)
I only shower and use very little water and energy compared with a bath.

I turn the shower on and wet myself all over. I then turn the shower off and soap myself down. I then rinse off. I guess the shower is only on for a couple of minutes total.

Jim

I really cannot see junior management buying into that idea Jim! :D

She has just gone back to university halls where the students never see an energy bill, but that may well change when she has been there for a few months. :rolleyes:

Wally 3rd October 2018 09:44 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I'm with Jim on this one. It's only dirty people that wash. ;)

TimP 4th October 2018 07:51 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459216)
I really cannot see junior management buying into that idea Jim! :D

She has just gone back to university halls where the students never see an energy bill

Doesn’t this take us back to an earlier discussion around home economics being taught at school. This sort of thing is pretty basic yet by the time someone has their first home it’s probably too late and they face a huge bill. People are told that phone chargers waste electricity yet while it does add up its the heating type things that really eat the juice.

TimP 4th October 2018 08:57 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Wasn’t austerity all about fixing the giant hole in the finances left by the last lot and here we are talking about letting them loose with the cheque book again only this time it’ll be the Marxist tramp signing those cheques, oh dear, oh very dear!
(Although is it any worse than the Tories giving it all to their mates)
Politically we really are screwed it would seem, getting the government we deserve, some would say!

Otto 4th October 2018 09:57 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459201)
I take your point Richard but there is a subtle difference between condensing gas boilers and oil boilers.

The water in oil boilers needs to work at a high temperature (typically 80 ~ 85 °C) to minimise sooting of the heat exchanger. This significantly reduces the time taken to heat water in the cylinder. From memory the effective heating provided by water at 85 °C in the primary circuit is 4 KW, assuming a cylinder water temperature of 25 °C.

Condensing gas boilers, on the other hand, work most efficiently when the circulating water is at or below condensing temperature, which is usually about 67 °C. Efficiency at or below condensing temperature is claimed to be as high as 97 or 98%, but this drops to about 85% when the water temperature rises above condensing temperature. This is why modern radiators have been redesigned with greater surface area to work efficiently at lower temperatures.

Clearly this also has an effect on the transfer of heat within the hot water cylinder, and the maximum water temperature achievable in the cylinder.

That said, I am still keen to do it! :)


Thanks Nigel, I didn't know that. There are condensing oil boilers as well these days so there is presumably a tradeoff between sooting and efficiency? Mine is a conventional flued boiler with a proper cast iron heat exchanger and I've no plans to change it unless or until it fails beyond economical repair, and my local heating engineer agrees. I believe it's about 85% efficient. If I were to replace it with a more efficient one I'd need a radiator in the kitchen to compensate so I'd be back to square one, just a few grand poorer!

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 07:19 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459227)
Doesn’t this take us back to an earlier discussion around home economics being taught at school. This sort of thing is pretty basic yet by the time someone has their first home it’s probably too late and they face a huge bill. People are told that phone chargers waste electricity yet while it does add up its the heating type things that really eat the juice.

They should have coin in the slot meters in halls! That would teach them more about economics and energy conservation than any classroom lesson. *yes

Problem is, they come home from Uni for holidays and see no reason to turn the lights off one not to use the heating. If it is too hot they just open a window. :(

And this is the generation that we are supposed to be saving the planet for! :mad:

TimP 5th October 2018 07:22 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Coins? Slots? How quaint! They’d want Apple Pay nowadays where you’d wave your phone at a device, although somehow that wouldn’t feel like you were actually paying for something quite like a coin would.

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 07:25 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459279)
Coins? Slots? How quaint! They’d want Apple Pay nowadays where you’d wave your phone at a device, although somehow that wouldn’t feel like you were actually paying for something quite like a coin would.

In any case where would you get coins from? Everything is contactless nowadays and all of the banks have closed. :(

Money has become invisible and spending it is just so easy.

TimP 5th October 2018 07:28 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Tell that to my rum bottle!, oh and the copper ones go into a small bucket.

Naughty Nigel 23rd November 2018 09:57 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
By way of an update on the above, I finally decided to go with The Powershop, which was top of the list for savings on the Guardian table.

The concept is rather different to other power companies in that you have the option to buy 'Power Packs' of limited value in advance whilst making significant savings. For example, I have pre-purchased power packs worth about £60 each for December, January and February at discounts of 41% on the standard tariffs. I have bought similar packs for the present month providing savings of about 21%. Any unused credit is rolled forward to the following month.

The downside is that these advance purchase packs do not cover all of our consumption so the remainder has to be paid for at the standard rate at the end of each month. However, I believe there are occasional flash offers available via the app to buy additional power.

For comparison the base rates are 16.023 pence per kWh for electricity and 3.602 pence per kWh for Gas. These rates reduce to a claimed average of 12.737 and 2.867 pence per kWh when purchasing the power packs.

On the plus side there is no minimum contract term and no early exit fees so if we don't like it we can easily go elsewhere.

My main irritation at present is that our account with First Utility (our previous supplier) is currently about £500 in credit. This is the result of monthly payments being steadily increased on the grounds that we 'could be a few pence in debt at the end of January', even though I have contacted them many times to challenge their calculations.

First Utility have now written to advise that it will take a month for them to receive my final meter readings from our new supplier, (they have them already!) and that it will take a further two to three weeks to process these figures and to make any final charges or issue a refund.

I cannot help but feel this process would happen a lot more quickly if I owed them £500, but perhaps I am just a conspiracy theorist. :rolleyes:

TimP 23rd November 2018 11:12 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I’m probably missing something here but if you can purchase in advance to save 41% then why not purchase a years worth in advance, let any ‘spare’ roll over and then this time next year buy another years worth in advance? Surely the roll overs in the spring and summer months will mean you buy smaller packs next year.

Naughty Nigel 23rd November 2018 11:34 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I would if I could Tim!

However, you are missing the fact that the Power Packs are limited to about £60 in value, and you can only buy one of each, so you cannot buy an eternal supply of energy!

By way of a bonus I bought a Black Friday special Powerpack today for £25.76 which is worth £46.84 of energy.

I should add the caveat that we have only just joined PowerShop, so they don't yet have our consumption profile and are basing their offers on 'average estimated' consumption values. Once they have built up our profile the offers will be geared to our actual consumption.

TimP 23rd November 2018 11:51 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I hope you take regular meter readings NN, if so you’ll have a damn good idea of usage so you can keep an eye on what happens with the company’s idea of your usage. Send them monthly meter readings.

Otto 23rd November 2018 11:56 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I just looked at my portal on the ESB website, they say they reckon my meter should be reading 27353 today. It's actually 27348, so that was a pretty good estimate! They were asking for an update which I duly entered. Ovo used to email a reading request when they wanted one but ESB don't for some reason, and I seldom remember. This thread reminded me it had been a while since I gave them the last one :).


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