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-   -   The Minefield of Energy Providers (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48899)

Otto 3rd October 2018 11:15 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Ovo kept telling me I was on their best tariff, they just didn't tell me they kept putting their prices up!

drmarkf 3rd October 2018 11:32 AM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
The Guardian has a good site on this, which includes a good comparison calculator which includes various relevant factors in the calculations: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...heapest-tariff

Assumes you're happy to use such a communist rag, of course... :D

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 12:25 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459119)
Out of interest what are your annual consumption rates? We’re electric and gas and gas is about 7500 kWh and elec around 1800. You should be able to plug those sort of figures straight into a comparison site to get an annual quote ( never switched so no experience)
Boiler cover I’d just see as an excuse for them to tell me my boiler is knackered and to try to sell me another ( I mean you British Gas!)

Our electricity usage over the past year was 6,580 kWh, whilst gas was just under 22,000 KWh.

Unit prices were 14.232 p for electricity and 3.207 p for gas (per KWh).

Standing charges are currently 20.43 p per day for electricity and 16.2 p per day for gas.

One of my projects for the coming year is to install a shower which works from the hot water cylinder as it is fairly obvious that a 10.9 KW electric shower is costing quite a lot to run; especially when our daughter is home from Uni!

I work from home so we tend to use more power than households that are empty every day, but then I probably save a fortune in not having to commute anywhere. :)

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 12:30 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmarkf (Post 459155)
The Guardian has a good site on this, which includes a good comparison calculator which includes various relevant factors in the calculations: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...heapest-tariff

Assumes you're happy to use such a communist rag, of course... :D

I doubt they will have our postcode in that case Mark but I will give them a try. :D

TimP 3rd October 2018 01:50 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459168)
Our electricity usage over the past year was 6,580 kWh, whilst gas was just under 22,000 KWh.

Unit prices were 14.232 p for electricity and 3.207 p for gas (per KWh).

Standing charges are currently 20.43 p per day for electricity and 16.2 p per day for gas.

One of my projects for the coming year is to install a shower which works from the hot water cylinder as it is fairly obvious that a 10.9 KW electric shower is costing quite a lot to run; especially when our daughter is home from Uni!

I work from home so we tend to use more power than households that are empty every day, but then I probably save a fortune in not having to commute anywhere. :)

That electric shower will be a killer, surprised you have one if youve got a gas boiler and a proper hot water tank, theyve never been a cheap option in a house with gas. If its got an inbuilt pump though, you might be disappointed with the pressure (or not!) from the cylinder. Were still getting free hot water from the immersion / solar panels although with the days getting shorter its gradually reducing, soon be time for the heating to go on.

Otto 3rd October 2018 02:08 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
There was an electric shower in this house when I bought it. When I refitted the bathroom I replaced it with a power shower running off the hot water cylinder, a great improvement.

I pay 12.57p per KWh plus 22p per day for electricity, fixed until next March. Heating oil is currently about 58p per litre, nearly twice what it was last year.

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 02:09 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459174)
That electric shower will be a killer, surprised you have one if youve got a gas boiler and a proper hot water tank, theyve never been a cheap option in a house with gas. If its got an inbuilt pump though, you might be disappointed with the pressure (or not!) from the cylinder. Were still getting free hot water from the immersion / solar panels although with the days getting shorter its gradually reducing, soon be time for the heating to go on.

The electric shower is just so convenient and it never runs out of hot water, but it will be costing a lot to run I know. Electricity now costs around five times that of gas per KWh, which leads me to question just how clean, green and efficient it is for running electric cars on?

I am happy with the idea of installing a booster pump for a power shower, which would be essential given our shallow roof pitch, but my hesitation concerns the length of time that the hot water cylinder (115 litres capacity IIRC) will provide hot water for? Measuring the throughput from the present electric shower I reckon it would need a minimum of about five litres a minute, which when blended wit cold water would probably provide about 40 minutes from a tank full of hot water. We tend to shower one after another; hence our problem.

We do not have nor want a combi boiler as it would not work for us owing to the location of the boiler itself which is some distance from where the hot water is needed.

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 02:18 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmarkf (Post 459155)
The Guardian has a good site on this, which includes a good comparison calculator which includes various relevant factors in the calculations: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...heapest-tariff

Assumes you're happy to use such a communist rag, of course... :D

I did take a look at the Grauniad comparison site and I must admit it is very good. The only problem is that it brings up even more bliddy energy companies and their tariffs! :mad:

Otto 3rd October 2018 03:01 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459176)
I am happy with the idea of installing a booster pump for a power shower, which would be essential given our shallow roof pitch, but my hesitation concerns the length of time that the hot water cylinder (115 litres capacity IIRC) will provide hot water for? Measuring the throughput from the present electric shower I reckon it would need a minimum of about five litres a minute, which when blended wit cold water would probably provide about 40 minutes from a tank full of hot water. We tend to shower one after another; hence our problem.


But your boiler could be heating the water while you're using the shower. I generally prefer a bath to a shower and I know that the boiler doesn't take long to reheat the water after filling the bath, probably no more than 10-15 minutes. I can hear the boiler running (oil boilers are noisy!) and while I've not actually timed it, it feels like about that long before it cuts out again. You might find that your boiler reheats the water used for a shower in the time it takes you to dry yourself off afterwards!

Wally 3rd October 2018 04:39 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmarkf (Post 459155)
The Guardian has a good site on this, which includes a good comparison calculator which includes various relevant factors in the calculations: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...heapest-tariff

Assumes you're happy to use such a communist rag, of course... :D


After reading the plot of a linked story, - Prancing Queen - I reckon I might need to re-start buying certain newspaers again. My kind of take on politics that I could read and re-read, then put back on the nail on the wall and use the real item to wipe clean the chocolate channel. :D *yes

Jim Ford 3rd October 2018 06:11 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459103)
I must say the water delivered here from the upper Tees by the French owned Northumbrian Water is really very nice, but it doesn't travel well.

ISTRC that you don't have an automatic right to intercept the rain from the sky. It's the property on the water company. They're OK with it if you use it to water the garden, because it will then go back into the aquifers and rivers as it would naturally.

If it's true then those clouds in your sky Nigel are French clouds!

Jim

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 06:53 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford (Post 459198)
ISTRC that you don't have an automatic right to intercept the rain from the sky. It's the property on the water company. They're OK with it if you use it to water the garden, because it will then go back into the aquifers and rivers as it would naturally.

If it's true then those clouds in your sky Nigel are French clouds!

Jim

So what happens after Brexit then? Will we have to pay the French import duties on rainwater? That'll cost Scotland and Wales a fortune. :D

Naughty Nigel 3rd October 2018 07:45 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto (Post 459179)
But your boiler could be heating the water while you're using the shower. I generally prefer a bath to a shower and I know that the boiler doesn't take long to reheat the water after filling the bath, probably no more than 10-15 minutes. I can hear the boiler running (oil boilers are noisy!) and while I've not actually timed it, it feels like about that long before it cuts out again. You might find that your boiler reheats the water used for a shower in the time it takes you to dry yourself off afterwards!

I take your point Richard but there is a subtle difference between condensing gas boilers and oil boilers.

The water in oil boilers needs to work at a high temperature (typically 80 ~ 85 C) to minimise sooting of the heat exchanger. This significantly reduces the time taken to heat water in the cylinder. From memory the effective heating provided by water at 85 C in the primary circuit is 4 KW, assuming a cylinder water temperature of 25 C.

Condensing gas boilers, on the other hand, work most efficiently when the circulating water is at or below condensing temperature, which is usually about 67 C. Efficiency at or below condensing temperature is claimed to be as high as 97 or 98%, but this drops to about 85% when the water temperature rises above condensing temperature. This is why modern radiators have been redesigned with greater surface area to work efficiently at lower temperatures.

Clearly this also has an effect on the transfer of heat within the hot water cylinder, and the maximum water temperature achievable in the cylinder.

That said, I am still keen to do it! :)

Jim Ford 3rd October 2018 07:58 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
I only shower and use very little water and energy compared with a bath.

I turn the shower on and wet myself all over. I then turn the shower off and soap myself down. I then rinse off. I guess the shower is only on for a couple of minutes total.

Jim

TimP 3rd October 2018 08:03 PM

Re: The Minefield of Energy Providers
 
Jeez Jim, life’s too short!

Enjoy a good dousing.


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