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bobg
20th February 2008, 03:24 PM
Hi,

Having picked up a digital SLR for a relatively short time, I am having trouble getting to grips with sharpening images taken with it.

This shot was taken recently in the garden as a test using my newly acquired 510 with a 14-54 lens attached – as such, composition, blown highlights etc. has not really been taken into account, but please feel free to comment on, as any guidance is truly appreciated.

It was taken hand-held in aperture priority mode (set to f5.6) with IS switched on, and focused on the top of the flower about a quarter of the way down the stem. The camera was set to natural picture mode with an in-camera sharpening setting of -1.

To me, the picture does not appear as pin-sharp as it should be, should I be carrying out further sharpening within Elements (I currently use v4)?. And if so to what degree?, is it entirely subjective, or is there a set limit?.

Also, when I shoot in RAW, should sharpening be carried out as a last step in RAW conversion, or should it be left until the final step of processing in Elements.

As I say, any guidance would be appreciated.

emirpprime
20th February 2008, 03:42 PM
I'm afraid the image didn't show up :confused:
But until then, did you notice the shutter speed? IS can only cope with so much and so you might have suffered form motion blur. Their might have not been much DoF either meaning that if the focus was slightly off the "target" won't have been very sharp.
Basically, is the focus in the wrong place? Or is the image just not that sharp. If it is the latter it is either motion blur or you need to increase the in camera sharpening/do some sharpening in elements.
All the best,
Phil

bobg
20th February 2008, 03:53 PM
Thanks for your reply emirpprime - aperture was f5.6 and shutter 1/100 - this would help if you could see the picture - how do I load it into this post??

Hiding_Pup
20th February 2008, 04:52 PM
Mike Johnston's Elegant Sharpening action works a treat. Video on the link:

http://www.radiantvista.com/tutorials/a-photoshop-reference-sharpening

bobg
20th February 2008, 04:54 PM
Hopefully - here is the picture

141

Garrie
20th February 2008, 07:57 PM
Mike Johnston's Elegant Sharpening action works a treat. Video on the link:

http://www.radiantvista.com/tutorials/a-photoshop-reference-sharpening

Nice link, thanks :)

PeterD
21st February 2008, 10:30 AM
Mike Johnston's Elegant Sharpening action works a treat. Video on the link:

http://www.radiantvista.com/tutorials/a-photoshop-reference-sharpening

Thanks for the link. Very useful tips. Although I do not have CS2 photoshop, the sequence and explanation of what happens was invaluable.

PeterD

bobg
24th February 2008, 03:48 PM
Hi Hiding_pup

Many thanks for your reply and link - very interesting, and lots of tips to try.

Sorry about the slow response, but it has taken a few days until I could find the time to look at the link and respond.

emirpprime
24th February 2008, 04:35 PM
Hi bobg,

Sorry I lost this thread. Thanks for posting the image. It is hard to tell, but it shouldn't be motion blur, as the shutterspeed was high enough. It looks like the focus is perhaps slightly high and behind where you described. Was there a breeze at all? It chould be that the flower was blown forward sightly.

That is my best guess, and opinion based on the photo. That lens is nice and sharp and the settings for the camera sound right. Have you had any more luck since?

All the best, and sorry again for the slow reply,
Phil

E-P1 fan
24th February 2008, 06:19 PM
I need that link too. Thanks HP :)

photo_owl
24th February 2008, 11:11 PM
Bob

Firstly may I suggest, as you sort of hint, this image is not the best example against which to discuss the sublties of sharpening technique.

I agree it doesn't look 'sharp' but then again it's busy and contrasty. Don't think it's a focus issue, or camera shake, but it isn't the sort of image against which you would assess sharpness.

sapper
25th February 2008, 06:40 AM
Hi,

Having picked up a digital SLR for a relatively short time, I am having trouble getting to grips with sharpening images taken with it.

This shot was taken recently in the garden as a test using my newly acquired 510 with a 14-54 lens attached as such, composition, blown highlights etc. has not really been taken into account, but please feel free to comment on, as any guidance is truly appreciated.

It was taken hand-held in aperture priority mode (set to f5.6) with IS switched on, and focused on the top of the flower about a quarter of the way down the stem. The camera was set to natural picture mode with an in-camera sharpening setting of -1.

To me, the picture does not appear as pin-sharp as it should be, should I be carrying out further sharpening within Elements (I currently use v4)?. And if so to what degree?, is it entirely subjective, or is there a set limit?.

Also, when I shoot in RAW, should sharpening be carried out as a last step in RAW conversion, or should it be left until the final step of processing in Elements.

As I say, any guidance would be appreciated.

When shooting RAW, don't sharpen in camera, it should be the last process you carry out before outputing to web, printing Etc.
Dave.

PeterD
25th February 2008, 11:16 AM
When shooting RAW, don't sharpen in camera, it should be the last process you carry out before outputing to web, printing Etc.
Dave.

Dave,

I have just found out - to my cost that RAW files are not sharpened in camera. In fact, no processing is carried out. As an experiment, I have shooted both jpg and RAW this morning and compared the output. The result is that the in-camera processed results are far superior. My problem is learning to use PP to achieve the same, if not better, results.

PeterD

art frames
25th February 2008, 01:21 PM
Dave,

I have just found out - to my cost that RAW files are not sharpened in camera. In fact, no processing is carried out. As an experiment, I have shooted both jpg and RAW this morning and compared the output. The result is that the in-camera processed results are far superior. My problem is learning to use PP to achieve the same, if not better, results.

PeterD

Peter

A benefit of the RAW file is to bypass the settings that you can apply to the camera to add sharpening, saturation and other compensations to the jpgs from the camera. For me the E3 needs a touch of sharpening to the jpgs other than that I think they are superb. RAW files also allow you to correct issues with exposure and whitebalance to give you some latitude to the image and recover highlights or shadow detail.

So as you are finding you can set it to both give you sharper jpgs and a good RAW negative. You can save the ORFs for a time when you want to explore some photoshop creative work and or deal with problem shots. With many of the RAW converters this level of setting can be almost a default to try (Lightzone does have a few stored - i think you are trying this trial - not a perfect solution for me).

I think you will think of this as a benefit - once the settings come together.

The ultimate decision should be do you want to be out and about taking pictures or sat inside, at the computer, fixing every shot. It used to be far better to shoot RAW, now I don't think it is.

Ask the dog 'walk' or 'sit inside' :D

Peter

PS
I decided on the strategy of sharpening the jpgs and keeping the ORFs for later :)

PeterD
25th February 2008, 01:58 PM
Peter

A benefit of the RAW file is to bypass the settings that you can apply to the camera to add sharpening, saturation and other compensations to the jpgs from the camera. For me the E3 needs a touch of sharpening to the jpgs other than that I think they are superb. RAW files also allow you to correct issues with exposure and whitebalance to give you some latitude to the image and recover highlights or shadow detail.

So as you are finding you can set it to both give you sharper jpgs and a good RAW negative. You can save the ORFs for a time when you want to explore some photoshop creative work and or deal with problem shots. With many of the RAW converters this level of setting can be almost a default to try (Lightzone does have a few stored - i think you are trying this trial - not a perfect solution for me).

I think you will think of this as a benefit - once the settings come together.

The ultimate decision should be do you want to be out and about taking pictures or sat inside, at the computer, fixing every shot. It used to be far better to shoot RAW, now I don't think it is.

Ask the dog 'walk' or 'sit inside' :D

Peter

PS
I decided on the strategy of sharpening the jpgs and keeping the ORFs for later :)


Peter

Thanks to your advice I shall be saving both versions too. I shall have to wait awhile before concentrating on PP as there is a lot more to explore with this camera. Get the camera images right first as you can never make a masterpiece from rubbish. Except in modern art perhaps but that is another subject;).

I shall give you a summary of what I have learnt later. My confidence with this camera is growing all the time. Pushing it to the limits and checking the effects is the best way to learn.

Cheers

PeterD

bobg
25th February 2008, 05:08 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments - as I said, it was a bit of a naff image, also in retrospect, I think that there was a slight breeze, and totally forgot that, although I used a fastish shutter speed, I overlooked the fact that with the focal length that I used, ANY movement would mess up the picture.

I have included a slightly better picture for sharpening comments.

161

Bob