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PeterD
16th February 2008, 09:46 AM
Dear all,

You may (or may not) have noticed that I had stopped visiting this website for the past few days. In fact, I was considering cancelling my subscription but decided to put this on hold and think.

I have always been very supportive of this site and believed that the childish antics at other sites were not a feature here. That is until one 'clever' person came on board.

I took the original post from this person to be genuine and tried to help not knowing if that person had difficulty in understanding. This is why I tried to remain supportive despite real contradictions in his supportive information that were included in his posts. I read all the links and gave my considered opinion in each case. Isn't that what we should do? I was horrified how all that he wanted to do was have a laugh.

What we should preserve on here is honesty. What this person did was dishonest and cheap. If you want to have a deap debate, then for goodness sake say so. Those who wish to partake can do so knowing full well what it is about. At least you will get the discussion going and exchange views.

I have been using this forum as a means of relaxation at a particularly stressful time for me. I know that the person concerned was not aware of this, how could he? Please, please, please give some thought to others and treat everyone with respect.

I have decided to give this forum another go but felt compelled to write the comments above. There are quite a number of you that I respect and trust and it would be a pity to loose contact with you.

PeterD

Wh

Garrie
16th February 2008, 10:33 AM
Hi Peter,

I'm glad you've decided against leaving the Forum as I enjoy your posts.

Its a shame other people can't be as supportive as yourself not just on this forums but others I have visited in the past.

I agree everyone should be honest and thats what I like about this board, however as it starts to get more popular its inevitable that you will get people that aren't so honest and are just having a laugh :rolleyes:

I hope you can still continue using this forum as a relaxation method. I can to some extent understand what you mean. Both me and Susan have had a couple of very stressful years with family health problems, thankfully things are looking up however at one point things were very grey indeed.

Anyways to end on a positive note, I'm glad your back and look forward to reading many more of your posts :)

All the best
Garrie

PeterD
16th February 2008, 10:42 AM
Hi Peter,

I'm glad you've decided against leaving the Forum as I enjoy your posts.

Its a shame other people can't be as supportive as yourself not just on this forums but others I have visited in the past.

I agree everyone should be honest and thats what I like about this board, however as it starts to get more popular its inevitable that you will get people that aren't so honest and are just having a laugh :rolleyes:

I hope you can still continue using this forum as a relaxation method. I can to some extent understand what you mean. Both me and Susan have had a couple of very stressful years with family health problems, thankfully things are looking up however at one point things were very grey indeed.

Anyways to end on a positive note, I'm glad your back and look forward to reading many more of your posts :)

All the best
Garrie

Thank you Garrie. I too am glad to be back on here as most of the forum members are as you.

PeterD

ndl0071
16th February 2008, 10:43 AM
Hi Peter

Welcome back

Obviously I am aware of the thread to which you refer as I was a contributor to it, I have to say that my feelings are much the same as yours, I still do not know if it was a serious attempt at a debate or a stunt. If intended to stimulate a fine art discussion it really should have been stated at the outcome instead of asking for critique on what I certainly saw as a very poor photo which indeed was in need of some serious advice, indeed I could not take it seriously hence my comments at the time. I remember feeling for you having been good enough to take the time to respond more sensibly than I, only to be shot down in flames, I recall thinking that respondents had been led into an ambush and that only one opinion counted therefore rendering the whole exercise completely pointless.

Still, why let one rotten apple spoil the barrel, I believe that an awful lot of photographers have benefited from your sound advice and comment over the last few months and have been grateful for your input so again welcome back and may your advice continue to flow long into the future.

Regards
Neil

PS I am sure you are aware that this thread may once again ignite the pants discussion, my advice would be to simply ignore it and move on to channel your energy into more sane threads.

E-P1 fan
16th February 2008, 11:08 AM
I too was a minor part of that thread.

I don't think it was anything like as bad as you think Peter - a bit unorthodox maybe - but not deliberately vindictive. Don't you think we all pontificate in forums such as this a bit too much for our own good - I know I do - and something like HP's strategic posting maybe has the value of jolting us out of our.. what should I call it.. smugness maybe?

Dunno - can't speak for him, but I doubt if he wanted to actually be unpleasant or disrespectful - let's see if he joins in now and makes his intentions clear.

I actually found the thread very interesting, quite revealing and even amusing - so it did have a value for me.

This forum is big enough for us all to co-habit surely?

Ijay37
16th February 2008, 12:28 PM
Welcome back, I for one am very grateful for your and other members posts as it has made me realise just how much I have to learn.
John

Meogeo
16th February 2008, 12:36 PM
I for one come on this forum for the expertise of the members, and I read the thread that you are relating to. Personally I do not think you should walk away from the forum because of one thread.

I feel you have a lot to offer to people like myself, in which I am just getting back into photograhy after a long break.

I am slowly getting through lots of posts in this forum to help me understand my Oly more.

The forum would be at a loss if you decide to call it a day.

PeterD
16th February 2008, 12:48 PM
Thank you all for your kind words. Under normal circumstances, I do not think I would have reacted as I did except that I was vulnerable as my personal stress level is, and remains, very high. Recognising this I have not acted on impulse.

I am back and pleased to be so. I too have learnt a lot from others on this site and hope this continues.

I think we should draw a line under this experience and move on.

Thank you again

PeterD

art frames
16th February 2008, 01:17 PM
Thank you all for your kind words. Under normal circumstances, I do not think I would have reacted as I did except that I was vulnerable as my personal stress level is, and remains, very high. Recognising this I have not acted on impulse.

I am back and pleased to be so. I too have learnt a lot from others on this site and hope this continues.

I think we should draw a line under this experience and move on.

Thank you again

PeterD

Peter

We have talked about this a little between us but I would like to say two things for more general view.

Firstly, you are amongst a number of people who contribute as much or more than they get here and without that generosity of spirit - clubs, communities and groups don't succeed. Being honest and open means you put yourself at risk to a minority that see life very differently. To all of those that think and behave like you do to us all, thank you. You make this a place to enjoy and feel good. I think of many of you warmly as 'friends'.

Secondly, I am trying to stop posting where there is clearly a game going on. I guess I cannot hope that this site remains absolutely genuine (sad :( ) but I will try and stop giving the oxygen of 'publicity' to game-playing threads and hope that they get bored. Unhappily I have also had to use the filter once or twice to stop seeing the posts that wind me up. I'm pleased that I have nobody filtered at the moment as I think of that as a last resort.

Welcome back. I look forward to more shots of the rare 'red breasted' and other exotic birds. I hope that your stress levels and quality of life returns to better levels now as well.

best regards

Peter

PeterD
16th February 2008, 01:23 PM
Thank you Peter. Your friendship and that of many others is very important to me.

Kind regards to all

PeterD

BigD
16th February 2008, 01:54 PM
i havent been on the forums for a few days or so as ive been tierd/busy so didnt realise the goings on.


im glad to see you've decided to stay (for now) peter, you've given some great crit, and your help is always apreciated :) so you leaving would be a great loss .


i hope these games do stop as id hate to see this forum turn out like others :(.



regards

dave.

Scapula Memory
16th February 2008, 02:17 PM
Peter,

Glad to have you back. I think most people here who read that rather bizarre thread would look at your contribution there as genuine and favourable. I know I did. As someone has mentioned we probably will get a few problems here from time to time as the membership rises, best to ignore them. Like monkeys at the zoo if nobody is watching they do not act up.

Invicta
16th February 2008, 02:33 PM
Hi PeterD

Hope you decide to stay with the forum. We need good guys such as yourself here.

The World Wide Web is used by all aspects of humankind. Below is a humorous web site about the character types sometimes found on forums.

Only to be taken in a humorous way :)

Recently we have had sightings of

Enfant Provocateur

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/enfantprovocateur.htm

and

Troller

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm

on these forums.

theMusicMan
16th February 2008, 02:44 PM
Hey Peter

It's great that you took time out and have decided to come back, that's great to read. Sorry to read of your stress levels, I do hope all comes good for you.

Please just ignore those who come here to cause trouble and strife. I did spot that the person you allude to was up to trouble within a few posts and reported it accordingly. There are a few of these childish troublemakers about, there's no getting away from them unfortunately as they will just keep coming back with their inane drivel.

You're a good person Peter, and your contributions on here always add value, are fun and good humored. Don't let them get to you Pater.

John

PeterD
16th February 2008, 02:52 PM
Hi PeterD

Hope you decide to stay with the forum. We need good guys such as yourself here.

The World Wide Web is used by all aspects of humankind. Below is a humorous web site about the character types sometimes found on forums.

Only to be taken in a humorous way :)

Recently we have had sightings of

Enfant Provocateur

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/enfantprovocateur.htm

and

Troller

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm

on these forums.

Thanks Invicta, gave me a good laugh.

Thanks to both Johns and Dave too.

I have learnt a lesson from this (which in a way is what the site is about) and I shall not be looking backward - only forward. As I said before, I want to draw a line under this and move on.

Kind Regards

PeterD

Barr1e
16th February 2008, 02:59 PM
Hi Peter -

Sorry to have read what has happened and perhaps after so many members here have commented you feel this is where you belong.

It's pleasing to see we have not been infiltrated in such a way as other sites.

I'm happy you made the decision to return.


Regards. Barr1e

Sam M
16th February 2008, 05:36 PM
Peter and all,

As a new visitor to this site I skimmed through the 'Pants' post with bemusement and amusement and to be honest didn't know what to make of it.

This thread has certainly cleared up any uncertainty and I don't think Peter should give it anymore thought. Any honest contribution is valuable and humour has it's place too, but not at the expense of others...

Sam

PeterD
16th February 2008, 05:44 PM
Thanks Barrie and Sam. I appreciate the support I have been given which reminds why it is I liked this place so much.

PeterD

andym
16th February 2008, 06:33 PM
Peter

I to was completely bemused by that thread,just remember dont let them get you down.

Glad your back on ,keep up the good work.

Solar
16th February 2008, 07:47 PM
The main thing that attracted me to this forum is the level-headedness of the users here. If I want trolls I will go to DP ....

Thank you for deciding to stay. You would have empowered the troll had you left.

Susan
16th February 2008, 08:04 PM
Peter

Glad to hear that your staying, your advice and contributions on here are valued and appreciated.
As others have said, don't let one bad egg ruin things on here for you.

Look forward to reading more of your posts and seeing more of your shots :)

Susan :)

Hiding_Pup
16th February 2008, 09:56 PM
Well, before the conspiracy theories get even more out of hand, first off, let me just say that, Peter, I never, ever meant to upset anyone and if I upset you I'm really sorry about it, particularly if I've contributed to your already high stress levels. I'd also like to respectfully point out - one more time - that it's never been my intention to trick or make fun of anybody and there nothing in my posts to suggest that there is. In fact, the very idea that the original thread was some kind of stunt was an idea that was created and perpetuated by your good friend, ArtFrames, the only poster on that entire thread who needlessly descended to personal attack.

It's one thing to say, 'This image doesn't work for me' or 'I can't agree with you that it is your best work' but quite another to say 'I don't like this image and the only reason you're posting it is because you're a smart alec who's having a laugh because you think you're so superior to the rest of us'. The former is an acceptable position to take (though it'd be more constructive if you explained why you took it) but the latter is just malicious personal attack, not to mention slanderous, unwarranted and unkind. Personally, I'm surprised that kind of behaviour is tolerated here at all and rather it wasn't. But, still, this forum isn't a school playground where we're accustomed to go crying to Teacher and we're all adults at the end of the day...

I don't think I'll ever understand the resistance displayed by some members when it comes to even considering ideas or forms of representation different from those we, as photography enthusiasts, commonly practice. It's a sobering thought that, in the last 150 years, every idea, subject or approach that we might think of has already been done and probably done better. To be unwilling to even consider that massive body of work seems a little odd, but to resort to personally attacking and insulting those who'd like to take an interest just seems unconscionably and unpardonably arrogant.

PeterD
16th February 2008, 10:26 PM
Well, before the conspiracy theories get even more out of hand, first off, let me just say that, Peter, I never, ever meant to upset anyone and if I upset you I'm really sorry about it, particularly if I've contributed to your already high stress levels. I'd also like to respectfully point out - one more time - that it's never been my intention to trick or make fun of anybody and there nothing in my posts to suggest that there is. In fact, the very idea that the original thread was some kind of stunt was an idea that was created and perpetuated by your good friend, ArtFrames, the only poster on that entire thread who needlessly descended to personal attack.

It's one thing to say, 'This image doesn't work for me' or 'I can't agree with you that it is your best work' but quite another to say 'I don't like this image and the only reason you're posting it is because you're a smart alec who's having a laugh because you think you're so superior to the rest of us'. The former is an acceptable position to take (though it'd be more constructive if you explained why you took it) but the latter is just malicious personal attack, not to mention slanderous, unwarranted and unkind. Personally, I'm surprised that kind of behaviour is tolerated here at all and rather it wasn't. But, still, this forum isn't a school playground where we're accustomed to go crying to Teacher and we're all adults at the end of the day...

I don't think I'll ever understand the resistance displayed by some members when it comes to even considering ideas or forms of representation different from those we, as photography enthusiasts, commonly practice. It's a sobering thought that, in the last 150 years, every idea, subject or approach that we might think of has already been done and probably done better. To be unwilling to even consider that massive body of work seems a little odd, but to resort to personally attacking and insulting those who'd like to take an interest just seems unconscionably and unpardonably arrogant.

Dear HP

Let me say first of all that I am pleased that you have replied to this thread and thank you for that.

As I said at the start of all this I am under a great deal of stress due to family health problems and now a bereavement. You had no idea of this of course and how could you.

The way things played out seemed to me that I was the subject of much fun and it was this that caused me to feel, perhaps to you unreasonably, as being taken for a fool.

Until your post there had been little anonimosity between members. In fact it had the feeling of a family community. Its one of the great strengths of this site which ultimately led me to return.

I accept your point that you were not having a laugh etc but please learn from this experience as I have tried to do. There is no advantage is starting a debate in the manner you had. It only ends in unnecessary acrimony. If you wish to have a debate then post a new thread which states the objectives. Those who wish to may then join you in a discussion. Be sensitive, I was to you thinking that perhaps you had a problem understanding through no fault of your own. Do not believe for one moment that the way I approached replying to you was me being dogmatic and with fixed ideas.

You will note that I have not blocked you and have no intention of doing so. Please, in the spirit of this community, learn from this experience and let us move on. There are far more important issues to discuss, share and help.

PeterD

PS
I forgot to mention that your attack on Art-Frames is completely without justification. He felt, like me, that the thread was not what it seemed to be. It was contrary to good etiquette and this was the point he made.

Zuiko
16th February 2008, 11:53 PM
Hi,

I'm reletively new to this Forum and I must admit to being rather bewildered by the strength of feeling almost universally expressed about the "Pants" thread.

Maybe I'm a little naive but I took the comments by Hiding Pup at face value and, after carefully re-reading the whole thread, I'm still convinced his motives in encouraging debate were honourable and well-intentioned, despite a slightly unconventional way of starting that debate. But surely that served perfectly to illustrate the point; many of us revolve within a world of conventional photography and that is echoed by the conventional manner in which most forum threads are started.

I would have said that Hiding Pup's approach was both creative and condusive to purposeful debate and I was glad of the opportunity to contribute to that debate. In doing so, I was prompted to ask questions of myself and my photography, and to re-evaluate what I thought I had achieved so far. I was hoping the debate would broaden, with others relating their experiences and feelings on the subject. I was hoping to learn how others perceive "fine art," learn what it means to them and to identify what distinguishes fine art photography from the type of work typically produced by proficient enthusiasts.

This could have led on to other questions such as:-

Is fine art photography relevant to enthusiast photographers?

Is "fine art" a label that recognises true creative genius or is it indicative of pretentious nonsense?

If it is over rated and over hyped, how come some artists and photographers who subscribe to this category are able to command such high fees for their work?

Alas, this was not to be as everyone seems to have taken great offense for reasons I don't understand and what could have been a really meaningful and challenging debate has turned instead into an inquest. :confused:

Zuiko

Photocracy
17th February 2008, 12:21 AM
...Is fine art photography relevant to enthusiast photographers?

Is "fine art" a label that recognises true creative genius or is it indicative of pretentious nonsense?

If it is over rated and over hyped, how come some artists and photographers who subscribe to this category are able to command such high fees for their work?

Alas, this was not to be as everyone seems to have taken great offense for reasons I don't understand and what could have been a really meaningful and challenging debate has turned instead into an inquest. :confused:

Zuiko

I think if you start a new thread with these questions, people will happily explore the answers. I think it was the way in which the thread unfolded which appears to have caused problems and happily an understanding seems to have been reached now.

So, why not start a fresh thread with your valid questions above? Doing so would remove the need for this thread to continue which is evidently desired.

Jim Ford
17th February 2008, 03:41 PM
Well, before the conspiracy theories get even more out of hand

<SNIP>

Yeah, well it has to be said - your 'Cat Picture' was still pants (IMHO of course)!
;^)

Jim

Hiding_Pup
20th February 2008, 06:25 PM
Jim, I find your opinion beneath contempt when you post comments as disgusting as this:



I usually carry a carbon fibre trekking pole when walking. If I'm ever attacked by a dog I wouldn't hesitate to thread it on the pole, from its oesaphagus to its rectum!

Jim

Scapula Memory
20th February 2008, 07:20 PM
Jim, I find your opinion beneath contempt when you post comments as disgusting as this:

I think you quoted Jim in the wrong thread.

Garrie
20th February 2008, 07:35 PM
Jim, I find your opinion beneath contempt when you post comments as disgusting as this:

:rolleyes::rolleyes: