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meach
15th March 2010, 07:57 AM
I use a variety of software packages to convert my raw files to jpeg depending on circumstances. I recently acquired an E-600 and after I converted the first batch of photos to jpeg using Paint Shop Pro I noticed some (but not all) of them had some pink patches and were noticeably darker. I've converted them twice now and it happened to the same photos each time, however if I convert them using Faststone they come out fine. Here are a couple of examples from the same raw file:

Converted using Faststone

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Faststone.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21998)

Converted using Paint Shop Pro

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Paintshop.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21999)

I just wondered if anyone else had experienced this or knows what causes it?

shenstone
15th March 2010, 08:10 AM
I've had it before and on specific files with a variety of outcomes as well

In the end I found 2 root causes

1. The file was corrupt - this does happen and I've found like you that some programes are more likely to cope than others (not always the same way around on different files). It's been rare over the years and fauly flash cards needing to be reformatted may have been partly to blame.

2. I did once report a bug with E-500 files to Imatch ( http://ptforum.photoolsweb.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=43101&page=1 )that came back as a problem with their image proessing libraries - now long resolved. The interesting information I got out of that was that Oly don't publish documentation on their RAW processing to any software developers to everyone has to get a file and reverse engineer it every time there is a new version and all the Oly cameras tend to have different ORF versions. This is obviously going to mean differences.

Bottom line is as long as you can get what you need out it's OK, and it's unlikely to be anything you did

meach
15th March 2010, 08:50 AM
I know there's a problem with the E-600 in that Adobe Camera Raw in doesn't even recognise its raw files so I guessed it might be something to do with that (but it's strange that it's only some images - and the same ones each time). If it happens again I'll try reformatting the card and see if that stops it happening.

meach
15th March 2010, 08:52 AM
I've had it before and on specific files with a variety of outcomes as well

In the end I found 2 root causes

1. The file was corrupt - this does happen and I've found like you that some programes are more likely to cope than others (not always the same way around on different files). It's been rare over the years and fauly flash cards needing to be reformatted may have been partly to blame.

2. I did once report a bug with E-500 files to Imatch ( http://ptforum.photoolsweb.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=43101&page=1 )that came back as a problem with their image proessing libraries - now long resolved. The interesting information I got out of that was that Oly don't publish documentation on their RAW processing to any software developers to everyone has to get a file and reverse engineer it every time there is a new version and all the Oly cameras tend to have different ORF versions. This is obviously going to mean differences.

Bottom line is as long as you can get what you need out it's OK, and it's unlikely to be anything you did

Oh yes - and I'm glad you recommended Faststone to me - otherwise I'd be stuck with the pink ones!!! Thanks again Andy

shenstone
15th March 2010, 09:11 AM
I know there's a problem with the E-600 in that Adobe Camera Raw in doesn't even recognise its raw files so I guessed it might be something to do with that (but it's strange that it's only some images - and the same ones each time). If it happens again I'll try reformatting the card and see if that stops it happening.

That's to do with Adobe's upgrade cycle - they do not provide patches to add cameras to prior versions of their software and they have cut-offs for various pieces and versions of software in their release process in. What it means is you have to buy the upgraded versions to get your camera supported. Which of course we all like to do just to keep them in profit anyway :rolleyes:

Regards
Andy

Rawcoll
15th March 2010, 09:27 AM
Paul, I might be well off-beam here but given that the sky is totally white, could it be that the pink is a result of the way Paint Shop Pro recovers clipped channels? I haven't used PSP so I am not familiar with it.

Wrotniak has looked at a number of Raw converters vis-ŗ-vis the E-30 (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/e30-hirec.html). Picture Window Pro rendered clipped channels as yellow!

Regards
Ian

OlyPaul
15th March 2010, 09:59 AM
Its not the files but the raw converter and how it is reading the files that is causing the problem, Paintshop Pro is not the sharpest knife in the draw as far as raw converters go. ACDsee had this problem for a short while with a former ORF file ( I think it was the E-510) untill they put a software patch out, I would not hold my breath waiting for PSP to do it.

meach
15th March 2010, 01:37 PM
Paul, I might be well off-beam here but given that the sky is totally white, could it be that the pink is a result of the way Paint Shop Pro recovers clipped channels? I haven't used PSP so I am not familiar with it.

Wrotniak has looked at a number of Raw converters vis-ŗ-vis the E-30 (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/e30-hirec.html). Picture Window Pro rendered clipped channels as yellow!

Regards
Ian

It could well be but I really just don't know. What's strange (though you can't really see it in these small shots) is that the sky showing through the trees (as opposed to above the trees) is white - the pink is only above the treeline (you can see this better in the gallery photos).

Rawcoll
15th March 2010, 02:11 PM
From what I understand a raw converter has to interpret what the colour should be if one or more RGB channels is saturated. Clearly, if only one channel has clipped that is a much easier task, and one more likely to give a reasonable rendition, than if two or all three channels have clipped. The abilities of different raw converters to do this well does vary I believe, and I guess it also will depend on the file type. Are you able to see if any or some of the channels are clipped in the pink region, and if this differs according to whether the region is high in the sky or in the tree-line? If so, that could explain the difference in rendition between the two regions. But I agree with Shenstone in that I suspect it is nothing that you have done, and so long as you have a raw converter which works OK that is what matters.

Incidentally, I had a quick look at the PSP website and didn't see a link to a 'supported cameras' page. Is the E-600 officially supported?

Regards
Ian

meach
16th March 2010, 08:22 AM
Are you able to see if any or some of the channels are clipped in the pink region, and if this differs according to whether the region is high in the sky or in the tree-line?

Regards
Ian

I'm not sure how to check this but I'll have a look. I doubt if the E-600 is officially supported as it was released long after I bought the software.

meach
16th March 2010, 08:55 AM
I've just revisited these shots and PSP displays the pink bits even when just viewing the raw files. So it's not the conversion process it's the way PSP sees them. It may well be caused by clipping but I'm afraid that's beyond my expertise. As mentioned earlier this isn't causing me any problem as I have alternatives but I wondered if anyone else had experience of the phenomenon.

Rawcoll
16th March 2010, 09:26 AM
Paul

Ah, I see you've posted before I could get this out!

Anyway, I suspect then that your camera not being supported by the software is the cause of your problem. Raw converters need to be optimised for each camera that they support, which is why you see these bits of software regularly updated.

So where do you go from here? One option might be to convert the Oly raw file to dng format, assuming that your software also supports dng. Adobe have a free bit of software available for download to do that, although having just checked I donít think that supports the E-600 yet! Alternatively, are there any updates available for Paint Shop Pro to include support for the E-600? Failing that, I guess the answer is to use any other raw converter that you have access to and does the job OK. At the moment it doesnít look like Silkypix or Lightroom 2 support the E-600. I wonder what others use for this camera?

To check whether the pink areas correspond to blown out parts of the image, it should be possible to get a readout of the RGB values at different parts of the original image. I donít know how this is done in PSP, but is some software you just need to put your cursor at the place of interest and the RGB values are shown in a box somewhere on the screen. If one of the RGB values is 255, then it is likely that channel is clipped. The question is, is there any difference in the number of channels that are clipped between the pink and the white parts of the image? In other words, is it perhaps only when all three channels are clipped that you get the pink colour.

Is it possible to 'recover' the highlights by turning down the 'exposure' setting in your software, or is there is a 'highlight recovery' control that could be used? If so, worth giving that a try.

Anyway, the reason for it happening is really rather a moot point, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. As you've observed, it would seem to be the conversion process. If you can convert your images using other software which doesnít cause the problem, and there isnít an update for your existing software, then use that instead. Thatís the only way youíd be able to get around it I think. Other than that, ensure that the exposure is such that blowing out the highlights doesnít occur, but obviously that isnít always possible.

Regards
Ian

meach
16th March 2010, 09:51 AM
Now we're getting somewhere perhaps. In the pink areas the red has a value of 255 (but neither of the others is anywhere close).

Rawcoll
16th March 2010, 10:57 AM
Well that could be it. I am assuming that the sky was an overcast grey, but actually a lot brighter than your subject. I find that this is always very testing, and it's easy to blow out the sky. Have you tried reducing the level of the exposure control on your PSP converter to see what happens? This may let you recover the channel if it's not too blown out. If you have a histogram view, then you should see the curve shift to the left, away from the top end, as you do this. Ideally, none of the curve should be hard up against the right hand end. It would be interesting to see if you can get it to a point where the pink colouration disappears. Of course, the whole image will darken and you would probably need to counteract this using other PSP controls. This is one way to idle away a few happy hours :rolleyes:.

Ian

meach
16th March 2010, 02:03 PM
Well you live and learn - my first attempt at using curves:

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Curves.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22040)

Perhaps a bit over done compared with the faststone image - but then again maybe not!!

Thank you so much for your advice Ian - I might now try this with other images in future. Someone really needs to write an idiots guide to post processing - as someone else said on here - it's not knowing how to do things that's the problem it's knowing what you need to do!!

Rawcoll
16th March 2010, 03:40 PM
You're more than welcome, Paul. Pleased to be of use :). I think your recovered pic is the best of the lot; I wouldn't say it's overdone. Of course, once you start playing with curves you can end up with so many possibilities that the problem becomes one of choosing the best :D.

It's unfortunate that Paint Shop Pro behaved in such an unruly fashion with what is a common problem. Going back to what was said earlier, it could well be that your camera is not really supported, in which case this may be an ongoing issue. Maybe it would be worth investing in more up-to-date software: perhaps it'd be worth starting another thread to see what others use for the E-600.

Regards
Ian

meach
16th March 2010, 03:58 PM
You're more than welcome, Paul. Pleased to be of use :). Of course, once you start playing with curves you can end up with so many possibilities that the problem becomes one of choosing the best :D.

How right you are - I've already found so many different end results that there is no longer a correct one - just some you like better than others!!

Maybe it would be worth investing in more up-to-date software: perhaps it'd be worth starting another thread to see what others use for the E-600.



Regards
Ian

There is already a smilar thread on the E-600 which is how I know Adobe Camera Raw can't even read my files - but I'll now put my tuppence worth in. Thanks again.

Dave_T
28th March 2010, 09:04 PM
FYI I also have an E600 and I import my ORF's into Lightroom 2.5. I also occasionally see the pink bits in the preview thumbnails, but once opened fully in Lightroom the files are rendered correctly.

meach
29th March 2010, 11:18 AM
FYI I also have an E600 and I import my ORF's into Lightroom 2.5. I also occasionally see the pink bits in the preview thumbnails, but once opened fully in Lightroom the files are rendered correctly.

At least I'm not alone then. Hopefully in the fullness of time when these things get updated the pinks will no longer appear