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Zuiko
21st December 2009, 12:06 AM
I haven't got a clue, except that it seems you need to shell out about a grand to get anything half decent! :eek:

However, I may need one soon and need to find out a bit more. For that sort of money I can expect to get a 1920 x 1080 HD resolution machine such as the Epson TW2900 or the Sanyo PLV2700, both of which have attracted excellent reviews.

However, those reviews are based on watching movies on Blu-ray and I wonder if the quality be the same for still images, bearing in mind I will either hook up direct to a lap top or a normal DVD player using a disk downloaded from my PC. For all I know it could be complete overkill, meaning a much cheaper machine would suffice, or woefully inadequate, meaning a much greater outlay is neccessary - and beyond my reach.

If it turns out I need a Blu-ray player to match the quality of the projector, can you record to Blu-ray disks from the PC? Or am I completely misunderstanding the whole concept?

Regarding connectivity, can you play a side show sequence of still images from a DVD player, or do you need to do it with specialist software on a computer? I don't need any fancy tricks (at this stage), just the ability to manually change slides when required as I deliver a commentry.

Any other thoughts? I'm so confused I don't even know what questions I should be asking! :o

Life was much easier in the days of film projectors! Any help will be most appreciated.

Graham_of_Rainham
21st December 2009, 12:50 AM
I haven't got a clue, except that it seems you need to shell out about a grand to get anything half decent! :eek:

However, I may need one soon and need to find out a bit more. For that sort of money I can expect to get a 1920 x 1080 HD resolution machine such as the Epson TW2900 or the Sanyo PLV2700, both of which have attracted excellent reviews.

However, those reviews are based on watching movies on Blu-ray and I wonder if the quality be the same for still images, bearing in mind I will either hook up direct to a lap top or a normal DVD player using a disk downloaded from my PC. For all I know it could be complete overkill, meaning a much cheaper machine would suffice, or woefully inadequate, meaning a much greater outlay is neccessary - and beyond my reach.

If it turns out I need a Blu-ray player to match the quality of the projector, can you record to Blu-ray disks from the PC? Or am I completely misunderstanding the whole concept?

Regarding connectivity, can you play a side show sequence of still images from a DVD player, or do you need to do it with specialist software on a computer? I don't need any fancy tricks (at this stage), just the ability to manually change slides when required as I deliver a commentry.

Any other thoughts? I'm so confused I don't even know what questions I should be asking! :o

Life was much easier in the days of film projectors! Any help will be most appreciated.

At the moment the "standard" for Digital Projected Images in competitions is 1024 x 768 (which nicely matches the 4/3rds format). So if all you want to do is project stills on a screen 4ft x 3ft, then something at a modest price will do.

However (don't you just hate that word) As with all technology we are moving to more and more resolution (same as chasing the pixel count) and it won't be long before 21:9 format becomes popular and the 1920 x 1080 (19:6 format) becomes obsolecent...

If you do go for a 1080 projector, you will have to send a 1080 HD video signal to it, or 1920 x 1080 from your computer. Sending sub optimum or miss matched resolution images to projectors, really produces degraded image quality as the processor "interpolates" what the pixels are from what it is given.

There are some very good "Test Card" images that can be downloaded, that show the effects very well, and it becomes very obvious when you see it, in the same way as viewing miss matched resolutions on your monitor.

As for fancy software for "slide" shows, we use Faststone http://www.faststone.org/ at our club and have even paid our donation :eek:

Hope this helps, and good luck with whatever it is - Do tell !

*chr

Zuiko
21st December 2009, 01:51 AM
At the moment the "standard" for Digital Projected Images in competitions is 1024 x 768 (which nicely matches the 4/3rds format). So if all you want to do is project stills on a screen 4ft x 3ft, then something at a modest price will do.

However (don't you just hate that word) As with all technology we are moving to more and more resolution (same as chasing the pixel count) and it won't be long before 21:9 format becomes popular and the 1920 x 1080 (19:6 format) becomes obsolecent...

If you do go for a 1080 projector, you will have to send a 1080 HD video signal to it, or 1920 x 1080 from your computer. Sending sub optimum or miss matched resolution images to projectors, really produces degraded image quality as the processor "interpolates" what the pixels are from what it is given.

There are some very good "Test Card" images that can be downloaded, that show the effects very well, and it becomes very obvious when you see it, in the same way as viewing miss matched resolutions on your monitor.

As for fancy software for "slide" shows, we use Faststone http://www.faststone.org/ at our club and have even paid our donation :eek:

Hope this helps, and good luck with whatever it is - Do tell !

*chr

Thanks Graham, that certainly does help.

If I do go for a 1080 projector, the ratio will not suit my pictures. Instead of 1920 x 1080 images I would be using mainly 1440 x 1080 (i.e. 4:3 ratio), with just a few maybe cropped to, say, 2:1 - or 1920 x 960 projected onto a 6ft screen. Would this work? Or does the aspect ratio of the image have to match that of the projector?

The "standard" projected images of 1024 x 768 - how would you say quality compares to projected 35mm transparencies?

Is a 4ft screen the limit, or would 6ft be possible without too much degradation?

Thanks again,

John

theMusicMan
21st December 2009, 04:28 AM
Hi John

Of course, the higher the resolution, the better quality... but then again you knew that already didn't you :)

I regularly use digital projectors for presentations in work, and have to select 1024 x 768 on my work laptop... the images I have on my desktop always seem to look fine at that resolution. I am not sure of the make or model of the projectors, but they are mounted in the ceiling and project onto large(ish) screens that I'd say are easily between 5' to 7' in width.

As has already been mentioned, don't use a resolution in-between as the images is interpolated and looks awful, but 1024x768 is fine.

j.baker
21st December 2009, 06:23 AM
Another thing to look out for is colour. On most projectors that I have used or seend, the colours you see on your screen are not what you see on the projector.

If you use a DVD to display images or video, your source resolution will be very low. NTSC or PAL (480/576 lines). Bluray players will output from 480 to 1080.

Most modern (1-2 yrs old) PCs can be setup to output 1920x1080 via the VGA port. DVI or HDMI would be give a better image (but not as large as most people think).

40" LCD screens are faily light, and fairly cheap. Plasma tend to weigh more.

LCD projectors 1080P are fairly rare and cost a bit, where as 720p DLP projectors are easily found and cheap(ish).

You also need to factor in the cost of a screen for the projector.....or have a painted wall (special light gray paint gives the berst results).

BTW, I use a large 1080p LCD TV for viewing images and movies @ home. Bluray, freesat, and a media streamer are my sources

Jim Ford
21st December 2009, 10:59 AM
I seem to recall that replacement bulbs are a fearsome price - hundreds of quid!

Jim

benvendetta
21st December 2009, 12:30 PM
The standard that the Welsh Photographic Federation has adopted is a maximum width of 1400 pixels and a maximum height of 1050 pixels. This is used for all WDF affiliated competitions and the Salon.

gphemy
21st December 2009, 01:45 PM
Another thing to look out for is colour. On most projectors that I have used or seend, the colours you see on your screen are not what you see on the projector.

Couldn't agree more - it strikes me that judging by screen resolution alone is not the most obvious approach for an Olympus forum!

And not just colour - look out also for contrast ratio (the digital projector equivalent of dynamic range on a camera) and the projector capability in lumens (how bright the image is).

Another way of looking at the problem is to avoid the projectors designed for markets which have different needs. For example, you probably don't want a projector optimised for business presentations, which is all about maximum saturation of Powerpoint presentations for projection in daylight.

Graham_of_Rainham
21st December 2009, 03:54 PM
<snip>

The "standard" projected images of 1024 x 768 - how would you say quality compares to projected 35mm transparencies?

Is a 4ft screen the limit, or would 6ft be possible without too much degradation?

Thanks again,

John

John,

As with slides, be they 35mm or 6x7, viewing distance has a lot to do with percieved quality of the image. We regularly project on a screen of 6ft x 6ft and occasionally a wall with the 1024 x 768 pixels covering 8ft x 6ft. Get up close you can see the individual pixels but they soon become indiscernible when you move a few feet away. Much like when you could see the grain on fast slide film.

You always have to keep in mind the inverse square law and while we can comfortably view 6ft x 6ft images in a darkened room with the projector running in "ECO" mode, go to 8ft x 6ft for presentations in room with daylight and the brightness has to be turned right up.

Viewed from 10 or 12 feet away the 1024 x 768 on a 6ft x 6ft screen is acceptable and while the "warmth" and saturation of colours is, for me, not as good as Kodachrome K25/64 the latest DLPs and 3LED projectors are really very good.

*chr


PS - I have sent you an e-mail

Zuiko
21st December 2009, 07:18 PM
John,

As with slides, be they 35mm or 6x7, viewing distance has a lot to do with percieved quality of the image. We regularly project on a screen of 6ft x 6ft and occasionally a wall with the 1024 x 768 pixels covering 8ft x 6ft. Get up close you can see the individual pixels but they soon become indiscernible when you move a few feet away. Much like when you could see the grain on fast slide film.

You always have to keep in mind the inverse square law and while we can comfortably view 6ft x 6ft images in a darkened room with the projector running in "ECO" mode, go to 8ft x 6ft for presentations in room with daylight and the brightness has to be turned right up.

Viewed from 10 or 12 feet away the 1024 x 768 on a 6ft x 6ft screen is acceptable and while the "warmth" and saturation of colours is, for me, not as good as Kodachrome K25/64 the latest DLPs and 3LED projectors are really very good.

*chr


PS - I have sent you an e-mail

Thanks Graham, reply sent. :)

Zuiko
21st December 2009, 07:22 PM
From info that I'm slowly gleaning I'm starting to lean towards a 1080 HD projector. Not only do they have significantly better (on paper, anyway) resolution but also much higher contrast and prices of newer models are only slightly more than some of the better XGA projectors. Epson assure me that projecting 4:3 ratio images on a 16:9 format machine won't cause any problems (although,of course, I'll get a 1080 x 1440 image instead of the native 1080 x 1920). However, one practical advantage of some XGA models is the ability to plug in a USB memory stick rather than a lap-top, which seems to be lacking on 1080 models. (just means more to lug around, plus I need to factor in the cost of a lap-top, which I currently don't have).

Thanks for all the replies so far, some very pertinent comments about colour, contrast, brightness and resolution. I'll have to give it all some serious though and hopefully arrange a demo of several different models before I buy.