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blu-by-u
28th November 2009, 08:38 AM
After struggling to get it right with the E-620, I finally gave up. I dumped the E-620. Think I started on the wrong foot with the E-620 and it has been a pain since.

The first day I got my E-620, I was horrified by the shots. It was all grainy and noise was everywhere. Even at ISO 200, i was seeing noise. Compare that to my E-330, the images were just horrifying. My first thought was maybe my setting was wrong. But then it was factory default. on checking that Gradation was on AUTO.

So after careful check here and in many other sites, I found the E-620 is noisy. Proof is in the DPreview. Tried to do my best to adapt and shoot it right. I had the camera set to center weighted and still over blown whites and wrong EV. The EV is so erratic that I thought I was the cause. Shooting with it side by side with my older E-330 it's confirm that the sensor is very sensitive and easily blows the highlight but then nothing gave me the confidence to use the camera. Noise was in every picture. Red dots appear in dark/black areas and whites were just overblown.

On checking some mention that sharpness couple with the small 4/3 sensor, the sharpness was the cause. I reduced the sharpness..the results were the same. My confidence grew less and less as I tried to coup with the E-620.

The final straw was at a catwalk. 3/4 way thru the shoot, I ran out of battery. The shots that came out were all noisy. I had to use a noise cleaner (noiseware community) on every single picture. This is one thing I never had to do with the E-330. Whites were over blown, the blacks came out with red dots.

OUT goes that E-620. I have since picked up a E-30 as a replacement and what a joy. I have relative clean pictures even at ISO2000. A thing I can never achieve with both the E-620 and E-330.

Now my question is, Was I unfortunate that the E-620 that I got was a lemon? Or was I expecting too much when I switch from a very much older E-330 to it?

crimbo
28th November 2009, 08:47 AM
I am just getting used to my 620 and it is certainly a big leap up on the 400...
You say the 30 is better than the 620 but I thought they had the same sensor and image processing engine...so I am a little confused...

snaarman
28th November 2009, 10:00 AM
I had a struggle getting the settings on my E620 right. To start with the results were slightly noisy, but with some fine tweaking I can match the images from my E510 in back to back shots. The E620 is no cleaner than the E510 unless you get to ISO1600 and even then there isn't much improvement.

I set up the 620 using the hints on the Biofos site. Using "Natural" I set sharpness to -2. I always use raw files, so I set centre weighting exposure offset to +3/6 (so it always over exposes by half a stop). This means the highlights look a bit blown sometimes, but I pull them back in ACR and usually get the desired result. This approach minimises the noise in the shadow areas.

So - don't expect the E620 to be dramatically better than the E400/510 family. With care you can get similar results. That said, it is a nicer camera to use IMHO.

Pete

OlyPaul
28th November 2009, 10:17 AM
Now my question is, Was I unfortunate that the E-620 that I got was a lemon? Or was I expecting too much when I switch from a very much older E-330 to it?


Well as the E-30 and E-620 have the same sensor and processing engine and as I have both the E-30 and E-620 and the image quality out of both of them are identical then I would say that something was wrong. :)

blu-by-u
28th November 2009, 10:24 AM
That's the thing. I picked up the E-30 and I do not have the same problems I faced with the E-620. If it's the same engine and sensor, I seriously think that E-620 was a lemon.

I have more confidence using the E-30 than that E-620. As for Live view, nothing beats the E-330 Mode A.

E30 at ISO2000
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/4134896593_c104eb5b17.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/4134896593_c104eb5b17.jpg)

crimbo
28th November 2009, 11:52 AM
..... Using "Natural" I set sharpness to -2. I always use raw files,...

Pete

Pete, if you are using raw files dont those settings have no effect??

blu-by-u
28th November 2009, 12:50 PM
Pete, if you are using raw files dont those settings have no effect??

It will have if you are using not using Olympus Master or Olympus Studio. I found out when Gradation was set to Auto, Lightroom showed all those horrible dots.

theMusicMan
28th November 2009, 12:57 PM
It will have if you are using not using Olympus Master or Olympus Studio. I found out when Gradation was set to Auto, Lightroom showed all those horrible dots.Are you sure...? I use Lightroom and RAW, and none of the presets have any effect when the images are imported into LR.

EH1
28th November 2009, 01:15 PM
It must have been a dud camera, as the sensors are the same.............there is no other explanation!

Zuiko
28th November 2009, 05:18 PM
That's the thing. I picked up the E-30 and I do not have the same problems I faced with the E-620. If it's the same engine and sensor, I seriously think that E-620 was a lemon.


Have you contacted Olympus? I'd be inclined to get it checked!

jonsey
28th November 2009, 08:20 PM
Have you contacted Olympus? I'd be inclined to get it checked!

same here, :)

shenstone
29th November 2009, 09:01 PM
I find this an interesting and yet disturbing thread as I'm starting to have very similar worries about my E-30 to the ones you've had with your E-620

I found Auto gradiation to be an absolute No No as it simply puts massive amounts of Noise in the darker areas. All the pictures I've taken using Auto I've had to reprocess.

But I'm also finding it in other areas and comparing images to my 510 I'm happier with the 510. I've liked the images in very dark places from my e-30, but it seems to be poor in overcast skies

These are 100% crops from some very similar shots the noisy one being the E-30 and yes that is at a slightly higher ISO (640 vs 400), but otherwise the shots have very similar settings e.g. they are both 1/20 Graduation Normal and Noise filter Standard

E-30 sample
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/3-30.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/19557)

E-500 sample
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/E500.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/19558)

So am I doing someing wrong or do I have a dud as well?

Regards
Andy

Nick Temple-Fry
29th November 2009, 11:45 PM
I find this an interesting and yet disturbing thread as I'm starting to have very similar worries about my E-30 to the ones you've had with your E-620

I found Auto gradiation to be an absolute No No as it simply puts massive amounts of Noise in the darker areas. All the pictures I've taken using Auto I've had to reprocess.

But I'm also finding it in other areas and comparing images to my 510 I'm happier with the 510. I've liked the images in very dark places from my e-30, but it seems to be poor in overcast skies

These are 100% crops from some very similar shots the noisy one being the E-30 and yes that is at a slightly higher ISO (640 vs 400), but otherwise the shots have very similar settings e.g. they are both 1/20 Graduation Normal and Noise filter Standard


So am I doing someing wrong or do I have a dud as well?

Regards
Andy

Well there are a couple of other difference the E-30 is at F4.0 exp 0 whilst the E-510 is F5.1 exp -1.

It's difficult to tell but I suspect that 'standard' on the E-30 is less aggressive than 'standard' on the 510. Might be worth seeing what Wrotniak has to say on the various settings.

Nick

blu-by-u
30th November 2009, 01:33 AM
Too late. I already dumped that E-620. I can;t do any more comparison or test to it.

shenstone, try a manual side by side shoot. then compare the results.

themusicman, I tried the E-620 RAW files with Adobe Photoshop using that ACR (Maybe name is wrong) All the dots were shown and there is no setting on Photoshop to turn that gradation auto/normal/hi/low. I gave up on Photoshop and used only Olympus Master. The converted files then if necessary edited in photoshop. but all the pictures had to be noise reduced with the noisware community software.

OlyPaul
30th November 2009, 07:25 AM
Shenstone those look about right for 100%crops bearing in mind from the exif its not a level playing field, the E-30 is a higher ISO and at normal sharpning while the E-510 is a lower iso and soft sharpening ( sharpening as a direct effect on noise).

My own personel opinion is that I do find that the noise in the E-30 has a softer grain pattern than the E-510 .

Raw image ( I never shoot jpeg) both ISO 400 with the same treatment in LR and a 100% crop in a plain out of focus area (good for showing up noise patterns)

E-510
http://www.pbase.com/paulsilkphotography/image/119857016.jpg
E-30
http://www.pbase.com/paulsilkphotography/image/119857014.jpg

I have some ISO 800 20 x 16 framed prints hanging on the wall that are superb with no intrusive noise even looking close up .

Bear in mind when 100% pixel peeping that for a given print size E-30 files will need less magnifacation and therefore be more noise free in the print where it counts not obsessive pixel peeping which I stopped doing years ago.;)*chr

snaarman
30th November 2009, 08:41 AM
Pete, if you are using raw files dont those settings {natural and sharpness} have no effect??


Yes, I suspect they don't actually change the raw file, but I haven't got round to testing that.

What I have also done (and this is more critical) is ensure that my ACR setup has been educated to add no sharpening to E620 images. I do allow it to sharpen E510 raw files very slightly, but it seems a bad idea with E620 files.

Furthermore I have set the 620 to over-expose 1/2 EV as an experiment to see if this helps. You need to be careful with your highlights, but I feel its better to down-gain a bright image that up-gain a dark one.

It will be interesting to see if the E620 gets a firmware tweak from Olympus at some stage...

Pete

davidsa
30th November 2009, 10:51 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "100% crop"?

Would have thought that if you cropped out 100% of a picture you would have nothing left at all! :)

David

OlyPaul
30th November 2009, 10:55 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "100% crop"?

Would have thought that if you cropped out 100% of a picture you would have nothing left at all! :)

David


100% crop mean veiwing the image at actual pixel size (pixel peeeping) then cropping a section of it for information purpouses.:)

crimbo
30th November 2009, 07:07 PM
...

Furthermore I have set the 620 to over-expose 1/2 EV as an experiment to see if this helps. You need to be careful with your highlights, but I feel its better to down-gain a bright image that up-gain a dark one.

...

Pete

Yes I have set mine to 1/2 stop over expose and then in C1 4 use a linear conversion...brings back the highlights nicely...I have also noticed that with 'Legacy' lenses I dont have to underexpose by 1 stop

alanj
15th December 2009, 05:07 PM
I have recently changed my E410 for a 620. Comparing similar shots of Christmas lights taken just before I changed cameras I have found the E620 images far superior, crisper with less apparent noise. I think the E620 is way above the E400 series in image quality.

Alan_UK
19th May 2010, 09:24 PM
So after careful check here and in many other sites, I found the E-620 is noisy. Proof is in the DPreview.

The only 'proof' on show there is that dpreview test cameras at default settings.
I'll bet a state dinner that they (and you) had gradation turned on.
So it's not the camera's fault, bit it's user error.
Sorry - but thats the truth.

jonsey
27th May 2010, 12:20 PM
The only 'proof' on show there is that dpreview test cameras at default settings.
I'll bet a state dinner that they (and you) had gradation turned on.
So it's not the camera's fault, bit it's user error.
Sorry - but thats the truth.

alan, by `turned on` do you mean `normal`...? :rolleyes: