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Ijay37
5th January 2008, 01:14 PM
I have just finished reading APs review of the E-3 and overall it isn't a good review,:( but, and it's a big but they are comparing it with the Nikon D3 & Canon EOS-1D Mk111 does anyone think this is a fair comparison? I certainly don't, I think it will be a while before I buy AP again.
John

Scapula Memory
5th January 2008, 01:56 PM
The sad thing about this review is that it almost certainly can affect someones decision on whether to buy the E3. A friend of mine is looking for his first DSLR and I have highlighted to him the benefits of 4/3 and the Olympus range.

He actually rang me earlier today to tell me about APs review of E3 and that it had put him off. He appreciated the fact that it had gone up against some much more expensive competition, and has looked elsewhere and seen more favourable reviews, but he has now said the E510 is now the likely candidate. I do not know for certain but I think maybe if he had not seen the AP review he would have opted for E3.

I personally do not read AP so have not seen it, I think much of it has been quoted on line to get the jest of what was written and on the FTF forum the reviewer Angela ( cant remember surname ) actually replied with a defensive text book answer.

Certainly I think if you are going to review something then balance/impartiality/ and fairness should be important if not vital considerations to form a reasonable opinion. Not much to ask for is it in this politically corrected world?

regards

John

dlinney
5th January 2008, 02:19 PM
Actually, the review itself is quite reasonable and mentions things like weatherproofing and effective IS system. BUT in then focuses on the very high ISO performance (unfavourably against the latest Canon/Nikon cameras). And then judges the camera as a professional tool, and guess what, it doesn't really compete for sports photographers' needs with the EOS 1D III or Nikon D3 - what a surprise!

It doesn't seem to be a balanced review in the sense that IS is far more useful to most photographers in most situations than ISO3200 performance. Reviewers seem to be falling into the trap of assuming that ISO1600 and ISO3200 noise is THE MOST IMPORTANT feature of a camera. Unfortunately too many readers then assume this is what matters for them!

For me, as a Canon and E-3 shooter, I have to agree that if I want to shoot very high ISO I will choose my Canon 5D. But for the majority of what I shoot the E-3 gives me a great camera with weathersealing that I would have to pay 2.5 to 3 times as much for from Canon or Nikon.

theMusicMan
5th January 2008, 02:33 PM
I haven't read the full article, as I haven't purchased AP this month. I might do yet as I have some considerable traveling to do... we'll see.

I do think though that Ian summed up all forms of review very nicely in his response to a similar thread on his FTU site... and I quote:

But I think that the whole issue of camera reviewing is undergoing a great deal of scrutiny. It's something that is at the back of my mind every time I write a review. Reviewers normally only get to test a camera for 2-3 weeks before having to put pen to paper. Cameras are such complicated products these days that I doubt anyone can become intimately acquainted with a DSLR in just 2-3 weeks. I've had an E-3 to use for two months and I'm still learning new things about it now. I don't mean to say that reviews are a waste of time, but that they shouldn't be seen as the final judgment of a product. I'd also appeal to the cynics to cut most reviewers a bit of slack too - we have a very difficult job to do!These are words from an experienced, and very well informed journalist... and very true they are too.

Having said that, when we all read such daft comments as those below (from Angela's AP review of the E-3), I wonder if it isn't just words for words sake and it sort of turns me off:

BUILD & HANDLING
FOR:Articulated LCD screen with Live View, camera settings visible at a glance in Super Control Panel

AGAINST:Some adjustments require extensive button pressingBut the thing is; isn't this the case with ALL high specification DSLR cameras...? of course it is, so what's the point of saying it and attempting to make it come across as a negative, it's just non-beneficial and could easily be perceived by many people as bias!!??

It is so obvious that where there is a combination of extensive features together with an intuitive menu system (which are both common to the other cameras compared with in the review)... that there has to be some 'extensive button pressing' to get to those features. Why this is presented as an AGAINST is well... just daft.

The other thing I might ask Angela on FTU is in regard to her comment thus:
Can I take this opportunity to thank those who have defended AP's honour with respect to manufacturer bias. We take this issue very seriously.What does 'very seriously' actually mean...? What will you do, what will you change, how will you take on board this type of feedback...?

Ray Shotter
5th January 2008, 03:25 PM
I have just finished reading APs review of the E-3 and overall it isn't a good review,:( but, and it's a big but they are comparing it with the Nikon D3 & Canon EOS-1D Mk111 does anyone think this is a fair comparison? I certainly don't, I think it will be a while before I buy AP again.
John

I agree that to compare the E-3 with the much more expensive Nikon D3 and the Canon EOS-1D Mk111 is unreasonable when considering price; but I also agree with Angela that the E-3 is probably more appropriately named as an "enthusiast's" camera which has many features which even "professionals" would value. In my opinion it's "value for money" is one of its strongest features especially when the price and quality of the 4/3rds lenses are taken into account and the fact that "image stabilisation" in the camera body is proven. I would have thought that there must be many professionals who would definitely take that into account. Angela defends her comparison with the Nikon D3 by writing "The new Nikon D3 may cost three times the price of the E-3 but that can be wiped out by a single shot by a front page-image". I wonder how many professional photographers manage to get that "front page-image".

I read all the AP reviews as they come out week by week and have found them very helpful. I suspect that Angela has some prejudice against the 4/3rds system since I did not feel that she did justice to the E-510. In my opinion the E-510 is the best value DSLR on the market when taken in conjunction with the prices and quality of the 4/3rds lenses.

Overall I thought her review of the E-3 was much more balanced despite one or two disparaging remarks.

DerekW
5th January 2008, 04:03 PM
Front page images are put on the front page because they have news worthy content - not because they are taken with a Canon whatsit.

My E1 has taken several pics that have got into the dailies as well as numerous local papers and magazines - because of the subject matter.

art frames
5th January 2008, 04:11 PM
I have a copy which I bought it because when I skim read it in the shop I agreed with many of the comments Angela makes. I think she is being more objective than given credit for. I think some of the wilder talk on other forums like AP's forum is just silly.

I believe this is an enthusiasts camera (rather than top pro) and that it has a number of pro-like features that mean it is probably in a niche it has yet to establish. But Olympus didn't say that and I feel will be judged on such claims.

On handling at the moment I feel it is not the ergonomic marvel that the E1 was, but that in time I will get it to deliver what I want. I personally would rather have had an E1 with a number of improvements rather than the major changes which were untried (like the AF system). I really do think there are too many buttons and menus and that the build quality isn't as rugged as I had hoped. I've already seen a number of early problems reported with buttons and doors.

Finally, I'm far from convinced of the quality control when we all had items (like handbooks and power leads) missing from the boxes, and with concerns over the focus/usability.

I realise I might be unpopular on this but I believe AP is a sound and credible magazine staffed by some good journalists rather than Olympus marketeers. Not a bad thing.

Peter

Ray Shotter
5th January 2008, 04:35 PM
Front page images are put on the front page because they have news worthy content - not because they are taken with a Canon whatsit.

My E1 has taken several pics that have got into the dailies as well as numerous local papers and magazines - because of the subject matter.

Glad to read that your E-1's photos have been published as "front page-images". I agree with you that it's the subject matter which counts. However, there are many photographers, I suspect, who have managed to get their images published on the front pages but I wonder how many have received 4,500 - 6,000 for one image. That is, to say, the cost of the Nikon D3 with a reasonably good lens. That was the point I was trying to make. If many of you photographers have received such rewards - then it is about time that I made the attempt to upgrade my status from "amateur enthusiast".

On a different subject altogether - I should say that I have been very pleased with my E-1 and the photos I have taken with it and am still reluctant to dispose of it simply because I now have an E-3. Many years ago I sold a Leica M2 (that I had owned from new and had used for 17 years as my only camera) to fund some Hi-Fi for my teenage children and have regretted it ever since. So, I am in no hurry to sell my E-1 since, I suspect, I might well come to regret it subsequently.

Jim Ford
5th January 2008, 07:49 PM
I have just finished reading APs review of the E-3 and overall it isn't a good review,:( but, and it's a big but they are comparing it with the Nikon D3 & Canon EOS-1D Mk111 does anyone think this is a fair comparison? I certainly don't, I think it will be a while before I buy AP again.
John

Extraordinary! What would you make of a car magazine that said that the VW Golf compared unfavourably with a BMW M3?

Jim

R MacE
5th January 2008, 08:37 PM
Extraordinary! What would you make of a car magazine that said that the VW Golf compared unfavourably with a BMW M3?

Jim


I'd wonder what was the point of the comparison.

I doubt if a car mag would make such a comparison and if they did they'd be unlikely to claim that they done so as VW had designated the model, Golf Sport and as such had to be compared with an M3 which is also a Sport model.

It's extremely unlikely that they would choose this excuse if they'd only a few weeks previously decided not to compare a BMW M5 against a Ferrari F599 GTB Fiorano on the basis that the Ferrari had a larger capacity engine was significantly more expensive and therefore the comparison would be unfair.

Not if they didn't want to look stupid at best and biased at worst :rolleyes:

shenstone
5th January 2008, 09:41 PM
Is it a fair comparison or not ??

Well it depends on what Olympus are selling it as. If they are marketing it as a fully Pro camera (and they are) then in some ways that is the competition.

I agree that it's not sensible in practical terms to directly compare a 1K camera to a 2.5K camera. We can see the difference and if you're talking value for money the E3 is way ahead. However there are people out there in the market who are not interested in the money and who'm just want/need to be pushing those limits and need to know the difference.

Such a comparison is really only sensible for those people who are willing to spend 2.5 K once or twice a year as the latest thing comes out. I know some People do, but is that a mass market?

I do think that this review is out of line the Magazine is called "Amateur Photographer" and the review / comparison is not aimed at or useful to most people reading it. That in my mind is just bad journalism.


I have to say to Scapula Memory that I think that your friend considering the E3 as a 1st DSLR is one hell of a bold leap into this world and I think he's been sensible that would have been an expense 1st step. I hope he'll enjoy the 510 as much as I do - I think it's a great place to start

Regards
Andy

Haisbro
6th January 2008, 08:43 AM
What concerns me most is that Nikon promote the D300 as a professional camera but can choose the competition against which it is judged in AP ie. not the professional camera test. If you advertise it as pro then test it as a pro, otherwise the consumer is being misled.

David

Scapula Memory
6th January 2008, 02:12 PM
Is it a fair comparison or not ??

I have to say to Scapula Memory that I think that your friend considering the E3 as a 1st DSLR is one hell of a bold leap into this world and I think he's been sensible that would have been an expense 1st step. I hope he'll enjoy the 510 as much as I do - I think it's a great place to start

Regards
Andy

Andy,

I agree, and I think my friend would as well, but he was particularly fond of the E3s build quality and weather resistance, he plans to travel soon quite extensively and in some less than hospitable places hence the leaning towards the E3. Interesting though as he asked me what Olympus has between the 510 and E3, so maybe the market is ready for a 610, 710 etc? He is still undecided but my instinct is he will favor the 510.

John.

shenstone
6th January 2008, 07:04 PM
Andy,

I agree, and I think my friend would as well, but he was particularly fond of the E3s build quality and weather resistance, he plans to travel soon quite extensively and in some less than hospitable places hence the leaning towards the E3. Interesting though as he asked me what Olympus has between the 510 and E3, so maybe the market is ready for a 610, 710 etc? He is still undecided but my instinct is he will favor the 510.

John.

Hi John

Sounds like your friend is looking for the sort of places that interest me. I decided that the E500 met my initial needs in this area. Although having upgraded to have the E510 as well now I still consider it a good investment.

When I take my cameras travelling or caving the water is easy to protect against. Above ground I simply tuck an umbrella in an armpit/shirt pocket or between my back and rucksack. Underground then a Pelibox is the thing. I've never had trouble with the wet.

Mud & dust on the other hand!!!!!!. There is something about a lens that's been subjected to finely ground siltstone !

Something else that is worth considering is that an E500/510 with the 14-42 fits inside a hat - this is an easy & fast way to make your camera dissapear in some circumstances that I've used at times - shoulder strap wrapped around one wrist and hat held in the other. You can get from covered to shooting and back again in a couple of seconds.

Regards
Andy

Barr1e
6th January 2008, 08:19 PM
Andy -

I take my hat off to you for that tip. Thanks.

Regards. barr1e