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wornish
18th May 2019, 07:14 AM
If like me you use gmail as your email provider this latest revelation may be of interest.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/17/google-gmail-tracks-purchase-history-how-to-delete-it.html

If you click on the link halfway down the article it will take you to your account:eek:

I am guessing that other providers do the same but have not been found out yet.

Phill D
18th May 2019, 07:47 AM
Hmmm not sure I'm over happy with that, although I've not bought much apparently.
This should be made more obvious and definitely easier to turn off.

Jax
18th May 2019, 09:34 AM
Hmmm not sure I'm over happy with that, although I've not bought much apparently.
This should be made more obvious and definitely easier to turn off.

From the moment anyone buys a computer, pays an ISP to access the internet, their life, activities, likes and dislikes, personal information is an open book.

Gmail is no different from Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Ebay or any other company providing online services. Every one of them harvests as much personal, private information about your activities as technology permits.

How can we really be certain that by "turning off" these options we are not simply turning off our visible access to them and they don't continue to harvest the information anyway ?

The motto is, give as little personal information out online as is humanly possible, use a VPN and think twice before getting involved in any form of Social Media. Big Brother is alive and well and here to stay ! *yes

Jax

Zuiko
18th May 2019, 10:05 AM
Is anyone really surprised by this? After all, life is now one big market place with intense competition for our or $. Perhaps more worrying is the failure of security on so-called private programs such as WhatsApp. On the other hand, do we really want to allow too much anonymity for terrorists and criminals? Perhaps the biggest concern for the ordinary man (sorry, person) on the Web is the potential manipulation of elections by political parties or large corporations.

TimP
18th May 2019, 03:26 PM
To follow on about the WhatsApp hack, again, are we surprised? It’s going to happen more and more as criminals realise they don’t even have to leave the house to commit crime.
Election tampering must surely be going on already, just look at the US for that. Once it goes online then the possibilities are endless, although even the paper system can get abused apparently, although having been involved in aspects of postal voting I can’t see how.
Everyone espouses the benefits (cost savings mainly!) of everything online but I feel we have a big shock coming when some unforeseen (or otherwise) disaster happens.

OM USer
18th May 2019, 05:05 PM
I make sure I am signed out of google and ebay whenever I have finished doing what I want with them. I use a thrid party email app and an email account that is not my gmail or microsoft email account as my everyday email. This is easy on the PC. In fact I even log into a local PC account and rarely log into my microsoft account. Things are not as easy on an android phone as you are always logged into google but I rarely buy things on my phone through my google account.

Harold Gough
19th May 2019, 07:56 PM
If you click on the link halfway down the article it will take you to your account:


I did and it has no records. I use my Outlook account for such matters.

Harold

wornish
19th May 2019, 09:15 PM
I did and it has no records. I use my Outlook account for such matters.

Harold

Do you think Microsoft doesn't track you?

Naughty Nigel
19th May 2019, 09:34 PM
Do you think Microsoft doesn't track you?

I would say that Microsoft is a far more reputable organisation than most of its competitors.

Microsoft's Exchange email server is a heavyweight commercial service which users (including myself) subscribe to. Cost is currently around 40 per year per account with some big businesses having many thousands of such accounts. I very much doubt that Microsoft would want to compromise its position in this commercial market by divulging buying habits to third parties, and I have certainly never experienced any such breaches.

Using a "free" email account, web browser or storage provided by a business which makes its money by providing a leading Search Engine is surely asking for trouble? Likewise using any other online marketplace for "free" storage or indeed any other "free" service.

wornish
19th May 2019, 09:44 PM
I would say that Microsoft is a far more reputable organisation than most of its competitors.

Microsoft's Exchange email server is a heavyweight commercial service which users (including myself) subscribe to. Cost is currently around 40 per year per account with some big businesses having many thousands of such accounts. I very much doubt that Microsoft would want to compromise its position in this commercial market by divulging buying habits to third parties, and I have certainly never experienced any such breaches.

Using a "free" email account, web browser or storage provided by a business which makes its money by providing a leading Search Engine is surely asking for trouble? Likewise using any other online marketplace for "free" storage or indeed any other "free" service.

I have been using Gmail since its initial launch back in 2004 and it has not done me any harm. I use it knowing the risks, so far so good. So 15 x 40 = 600 I have saved to spend on other essential Oly gear :)


I totally understand nothing is free but I certainly don't have your faith in Microsoft or any service provider whatever they claim or charge. They are all looking to make a profit and if they don't then they deserve to go bust!

Naughty Nigel
19th May 2019, 10:10 PM
I have been using Gmail since its initial launch back in 2004 and it has not done me any harm. I use it knowing the risks, so far so good. So 15 x 40 = 600 I have saved to spend on other essential Oly gear :)


I totally understand nothing is free but I certainly don't have your faith in Microsoft or any service provider whatever they claim or charge. They are all looking to make a profit and if they don't then they deserve to go bust!

Exchange is a brilliant service and well worth the money in my view. As a business cost it is negligible especially when compared with Adobe CC at about 50 per month.

I don't trust any organisation 100% but I would rate Microsoft much higher than certain search engine providers and online marketplaces.

throt
19th May 2019, 11:04 PM
We are monitored every way possible. At least around here there are no smart toilets :D
I see some people taping over the laptop camera not thinking that visual is the least threatening, much worse is listening and keyboard record. But yes to think that a lot of people have android phones then there's no privacy anyways - google listens you, tracks your searches, purchases and even where you are - google maps has an automatic places setting aswell. I remember there was issues with Amazon Alexa last year - oh they have updated the news https://nypost.com/2019/04/11/amazon-employees-are-listening-to-you-through-alexa-devices/
A friend of mine joked once that the world is moving this way that when you have a hangover and go to the toilet in the morning, the toilet analyzes what your're dumping and sends the information to the fridge, that cancels the order for beer and beef, instead of that orders some fruits, vegetables and fresh juice. Now if to add some extra to there it would go so that as the content in the toilet was not normal, you get automatically booked a visit to the doctor and when you get dressed to go to the work, the car drives to the hospital instead of office where a bot nurse examines you and makes day worth of different tests trying to find out what's wrong with you.

wornish
20th May 2019, 09:51 AM
More news this morning on Google. It seems they have now blocked Huawei from getting updates to Gmail and google maps!

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/google-blocks-huawei-from-using-apps-on-its-phones-a4146106.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48330310

What does that mean for existing users of the P20 and P30 phones?

Does anyone on here use them and Gmail?

Naughty Nigel
20th May 2019, 09:59 AM
More news this morning on Google. It seems they have now blocked Huawei from getting updates to Gmail and google maps!

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/google-blocks-huawei-from-using-apps-on-its-phones-a4146106.html

What does that mean for existing users of the P20 and P30 phones?

Does anyone on here use them and Gmail?

I don't know but our son had a P20 for a while and was unable to use some banking apps. He was also unable to access his employers scheduling system (Coop) owing to security problems. This did not affect other Android phones.

The camera on the P20 was impressive but the microphone failed after about three months and it was going to take Huawei at least three weeks to fix it. Curry's offered a full refund so he bought an iPhone-X which works perfectly with the Coop system and banking apps.

Jax
20th May 2019, 11:29 AM
A friend of mine joked once that the world is moving this way that when you have a hangover and go to the toilet in the morning, the toilet analyzes what your're dumping and sends the information to the fridge, that cancels the order for beer and beef, instead of that orders some fruits, vegetables and fresh juice. Now if to add some extra to there it would go so that as the content in the toilet was not normal, you get automatically booked a visit to the doctor and when you get dressed to go to the work, the car drives to the hospital instead of office where a bot nurse examines you and makes day worth of different tests trying to find out what's wrong with you.

Such a terrible waste of Smart Technology when all that was needed was a few cups of strong black coffee ! :)

Jax

Jax
20th May 2019, 11:44 AM
I have been using Gmail since its initial launch back in 2004 and it has not done me any harm. I use it knowing the risks, so far so good. So 15 x 40 = 600 I have saved to spend on other essential Oly gear :)


I totally understand nothing is free but I certainly don't have your faith in Microsoft or any service provider whatever they claim or charge. They are all looking to make a profit and if they don't then they deserve to go bust!

Of course any company looks to make a profit :confused:

What IS in question however is the means and methods they adopt to make that profit. In the case of Google and Gmail it is one of the most invasive information harvesters out there. If anyone actually believes they don't pass the harvested info on to 3rd parties then I suggest a reality check is urgently needed.

Jax

Otto
22nd May 2019, 10:55 AM
I use a medieval e-mail app called Eudora. It works, it's more or less immune to attacks, and it stores all my e-mail locally. Web-based e-mail has always seemed like a solution looking for a problem to me. I very rarely log in to Microsoft, Google etc.

Jax
22nd May 2019, 11:22 AM
I use a medieval e-mail app called Eudora. It works, it's more or less immune to attacks, and it stores all my e-mail locally. Web-based e-mail has always seemed like a solution looking for a problem to me. I very rarely log in to Microsoft, Google etc.

If you are a Windows user, surely every time you turn on the PC you are logging into Microsoft, or am I misunderstanding something as usual ? :)

Jax

Harold Gough
22nd May 2019, 11:27 AM
Do you think Microsoft doesn't track you?

Where I go is tracked in many ways but what I do is another matter. Most transactions are via PayPal. They have to be secure or they will go out of business.

Harold

Harold Gough
22nd May 2019, 11:32 AM
We are monitored every way possible. At least around here there are no smart toilets.

I'm convinced there is plenty of ***** technology out there.

Harold

Otto
22nd May 2019, 11:36 AM
If you are a Windows user, surely every time you turn on the PC you are logging into Microsoft, or am I misunderstanding something as usual ? :)

Jax


If you boot into Windows you are logging in to Windows and MS will know you're there. I don't log in to my Windows account though - at least not knowingly. I don't (and won't) use Chrome or Edge in the (possibly mistaken) belief that Mozilla do not harvest personal information via Firefox.


I have also started using private browsing when I visit media websites that refuse to let me browse without accepting cookies so that any tracking cookies are deleted when I close the browser window.

Otto
22nd May 2019, 11:40 AM
Where I go is tracked in many ways but what I do is another matter. Most transactions are via PayPal. They have to be secure or they will go out of business.

Harold


Not wishing to pollute this thread with politics but be aware that PayPal payments in foreign currencies are converted to sterling before being credited to your account. This allows Farage to claim his Brexit Party does not take payments in foreign currencies.

TimP
22nd May 2019, 11:40 AM
The Google purchases thing could come in handy but frankly I don’t care who or what tracks me.
I use Gmail, have done for years, I log in very occasionally to a Microsoft email account. I regularly update a couple of W10 VMs, I make extensive use of a smartphone when out and if travelling abroad.
There are various things I don’t do, mainly around on-line banking, certainly don’t do it or have any apps on any mobile devices. Saying that, I do use Apple Pay! Oops!

wornish
22nd May 2019, 11:45 AM
If you boot into Windows you are logging in to Windows and MS will know you're there. I don't log in to my Windows account though - at least not knowingly. I don't (and won't) use Chrome or Edge in the (possibly mistaken) belief that Mozilla do not harvest personal information via Firefox.


I have also started using private browsing when I visit media websites that refuse to let me browse without accepting cookies so that any tracking cookies are deleted when I close the browser window.

If you use private browsing I think you are correct in saying that cookies are deleted when you close the browser window. BUT Your internet provider has a copy of every site you visited and every page you viewed on that site.

Or maybe even private browsing can be tracked it seems.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2865297/super-cookies-can-track-you-even-in-private-browsing-mode-researcher-says.html

Jax
22nd May 2019, 11:48 AM
I have also started using private browsing when I visit media websites that refuse to let me browse without accepting cookies so that any tracking cookies are deleted when I close the browser window.

At the risk of repeating what I've previously stated, I use a couple of VPN providers, no tracking problems, no spam, no search related advertising, I don't fully understand why this prevents all the above, but I would never use a PC without a VPN now. *yes

Jax

wornish
22nd May 2019, 11:49 AM
At the risk of repeating what I've previously stated, I use a couple of VPN providers, no tracking problems, no spam, no search related advertising, I don't fully understand why this prevents all the above, but I would never use a PC without a VPN now. *yes

Jax

Opera uses VPN as standard.

Jax
22nd May 2019, 11:54 AM
Opera uses VPN as standard.

Indeed it does but the Opera VPN only works within the Opera browser. If you use any other browser it has no effect. Other VPN's cover all your activity no matter where you go or what browser you're using.

Jax

Naughty Nigel
22nd May 2019, 12:11 PM
I use a medieval e-mail app called Eudora. It works, it's more or less immune to attacks, and it stores all my e-mail locally. Web-based e-mail has always seemed like a solution looking for a problem to me. I very rarely log in to Microsoft, Google etc.

Depending on your settings your emails will still remain online in a mail server somewhere. Some email clients provide the option to delete emails after successful download but most do not.

Not wishing to pollute this thread with politics but be aware that PayPal payments in foreign currencies are converted to sterling before being credited to your account. This allows Farage to claim his Brexit Party does not take payments in foreign currencies.

Farage will be enjoying punitive exchange rates then. :(

I tried to transfer a bundle of Euros from PayPal to my Barclays Euro account (in the hope of improved exchange rates) but PayPal insisted on changing them into GBP first. :mad:

Otto
22nd May 2019, 12:41 PM
Depending on your settings your emails will still remain online in a mail server somewhere. Some email clients provide the option to delete emails after successful download but most do not.

Eudora deletes e-mails from the server after download by default. Mailwasher Pro allows me to inspect spam and other potentially unwanted e-mails and delete them without downloading.

I don't suppose Farage is too bothered about an extra percentage point or two of commission on his foreign currency donations if it allows him to hide the source!

TimP
22nd May 2019, 12:53 PM
All this talk of an old email client, anyone remember (fondly, in my case) Turnpike? It was standard from Demon Internet, DOS based but pretty powerful with some useful features I’ve never seen since. I think I might have moved to Eudora once Turnpike became a Windows app, I’ve certainly used it in the past at some point.

Keith-369
22nd May 2019, 01:30 PM
And talking of Google and Gmail tracking, have a read of this -

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/google-tracks-your-purchases-heres-how-to-see-what-gmail-knows/?ftag=CAD-04-10abf6e&bhid=

Otto
22nd May 2019, 02:34 PM
And talking of Google and Gmail tracking, have a read of this -

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/google-tracks-your-purchases-heres-how-to-see-what-gmail-knows/?ftag=CAD-04-10abf6e&bhid=

A little ironic then that "We and our partners use cookies to understand how you use our site, improve your experience and serve you personalized content and advertising. Read about how we use cookies in our cookie policy and how you can control them by clicking "Manage Settings". By continuing to use this site, you accept these cookies." :)

Keith-369
22nd May 2019, 02:53 PM
A little ironic then that "We and our partners use cookies to understand how you use our site, improve your experience and serve you personalized content and advertising. Read about how we use cookies in our cookie policy and how you can control them by clicking "Manage Settings". By continuing to use this site, you accept these cookies." :)

Isn't it just.

Unfortunately, it's the same on pretty much every news site and many others, of course.

You do, however, as it says, get the chance to control them, which is not always a choice Google gives you.

Otto
22nd May 2019, 03:09 PM
True enough. The easiest way though is to use private browsing which deletes the cookies afterwards so they don't persist on your system. It's not a complete fix but it's a start.

Jax
22nd May 2019, 04:10 PM
My concern regarding tracking, history, searches, purchase information etc. collected by 99% of all internet companies via the use of cookies and trackers is:

When we choose to delete this information is it actually removed from the various companies records and servers or does choosing deletion simply remove our access to the information, thereby making it appear it has been deleted ?

Given my sceptical suspicious nature when it comes to online information harvesting, I suspect it's probably the latter.

We do of course have no possible means of being certain either way. Neither Google, Microsoft, or any other company is going to admit to such devious underhanded behaviour unless an employee in the know, blows the whistle. *yes


Jax

wornish
22nd May 2019, 04:35 PM
I think you are correct.

It simply gets moved to the Trash Bin. That's still there somewhere.

Naughty Nigel
22nd May 2019, 09:11 PM
My concern regarding tracking, history, searches, purchase information etc. collected by 99% of all internet companies via the use of cookies and trackers is:

When we choose to delete this information is it actually removed from the various companies records and servers or does choosing deletion simply remove our access to the information, thereby making it appear it has been deleted ?

Given my sceptical suspicious nature when it comes to online information harvesting, I suspect it's probably the latter.

We do of course have no possible means of being certain either way. Neither Google, Microsoft, or any other company is going to admit to such devious underhanded behaviour unless an employee in the know, blows the whistle. *yes


Jax

There are two ways of looking at it. If your data is useful to the hosting company they will keep it. If it has no value they will delete it.

If you stop paying for iCloud or MS OneDrive you are given so many days before the data is permanently deleted. Once it has gone it has gone.

iCloud and OneDrive data is encrypted but I doubt that most users' data would be of much interest to anyone else anyway.

The real problem seems to involve social media, search engine and online sales platforms such as Facebook, Google and Amazon. All of these allow and encourage users to upload all sorts of data for no charge at all. Whichever way you look at it storing billions of holiday snaps, photographs of meals and people throwing up at parties must be an expensive business so why do they do it? This data is also stored for indefinite periods it seems, but why?

There can be little doubt that this trivia has significant commercial value to someone, even after you have supposedly 'deleted' your account, so having enticed you to upload it I can see why they would not want to delete it whilst there is some value. Even deleted accounts provide valuable data about spending habits and so forth. I would imagine that randomly deleting images from a massive relational database would cause all manner of problems too, so it is easier for the hosting company to leave it be.

Jax
22nd May 2019, 10:25 PM
True enough. The easiest way though is to use private browsing which deletes the cookies afterwards so they don't persist on your system. It's not a complete fix but it's a start.

It's correct that using private browsing deletes cookies etc. once the browsing session has closed but, is that not akin to closing the door after the horse has bolted ? The cookies may have already passed on the details of your browsing session, purchases made, sites visited etc. etc. etc. Deleting them only removes them from your system until your next visit. Agreed, the use of private browsing is a start but hardly anywhere close to a viable solution to the insidious information harvesters.

Jax

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 08:01 AM
It's correct that using private browsing deletes cookies etc. once the browsing session has closed but, is that not akin to closing the door after the horse has bolted ? The cookies may have already passed on the details of your browsing session, purchases made, sites visited etc. etc. etc. Deleting them only removes them from your system until your next visit. Agreed, the use of private browsing is a start but hardly anywhere close to a viable solution to the insidious information harvesters.

Jax

My understanding is that using In Private browsing effectively makes you invisible to the web servers in question, so you can request data but no other information is divulged.

I often book train tickets online and will look at several different journey options before booking, including buying two or more tickets for the same journey. (It is often much cheaper if you split a journey.)

If you try to do this simultaneously using two or more tabs in IE, Edge or Chrome the cookies mess everything up, even if you search using different train companies websites! In fact I have a sneaking suspicion that the cookies nudge prices up if you make too many searches.

But it you use different browsers or IP browsing you can look up as many journeys as you like. The same applies to airline websites.

Harold Gough
23rd May 2019, 08:08 AM
Google Chrome

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=2959

Otto
23rd May 2019, 12:16 PM
Chrome might not save your browsing history to your computer or other browsing device but I wouldn't trust one of the world's largest data harvesting companies not to save it to their servers!

I don't (and won't) use Chrome; Firefox has a similar private mode plus other ways of limiting data gathering and tracking technologies. The Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit organisation unlike Google.

blu-by-u
28th May 2019, 02:13 AM
To remove those tracking, remove all the email confirmations of purchase and delivery. That removes all history of the purchases. :D

Anyone not using Gmails, can you check if that the history of purchases still shows. Thanks