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View Full Version : So who's going to enforce it?


Jim Ford
14th May 2019, 01:10 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/14/patience-exhausted-drivers-who-sit-with-engines-idling-could-face-instant-fines

Unless it's enforced (by whom?) it will just be a joke!

Jim

MJ224
14th May 2019, 01:45 PM
The only vague excuse is to keep warm in the winter.

Must admit at traffic light etc, I keep my RX8 engine on, just in case it won't start.....though I have solved that problem (touch wood) with a £3000 engine refurb...:(

In my (cover your ears Nigel) electric car, I dare not put on the heater as it uses my electric power too much...

Seriously, the modern cars do stop the engine at traffic lights, and that system seems to work OK....Who is going to collect the fine, Exhausted Police I guess*chr

OM USer
14th May 2019, 02:10 PM
The only vague excuse is to keep warm in the winter...
Seriously, the modern cars do stop the engine at traffic lights, and that system seems to work....
Who is going to collect the fine, Exhausted Police I guess
And cool in summer.

I don't have a modern enough car but (a) I think you can turn it off, (b) I believe that if you depress the clutch or put it into neutral then it doesn't stop the engine, and (c) it doesn't do it if the engine is cold or the battery is not fully charged.

I like the pun but the council will collect the fine though it might be issued by an exhausted policeman on behalf of the council. If the police do not get the money then it won't be high on their list of priorities.

Tram
14th May 2019, 03:02 PM
Our car has an eco cut out when sat at lights or at a standstill in traffic.
Depress the clutch to restart the engine, bit unnerving when we first had it

Zuiko
14th May 2019, 03:16 PM
I don't think this law is aimed at drivers who are stationary (not parked) at traffic lights. Rather, it is intended to stop couriers (including postmen) leaving their engines running whilst they are making a delivery. And parents on the afternoon school run, poisoning the air their offspring are about to breathe!

But there has to be some common sense; imagine if the bin lorries switched off every time they stopped to collect the waste - there's more than enough chaos now!

wornish
14th May 2019, 03:50 PM
I drive a Diesel with an automatic transmission. The car more than meets the latest emission criteria so no daggers, please. It stops the engine if you are stationary at a junction for a few seconds with your foot on the brake. Then as soon as you lift your foot it restarts and off you go. The technology is not that expensive and could be retrofitted to delivery vehicles etc. If you drive a car with an old pre-alternator electrical system then I agree they wouldnt be able to cope with the constant demand for power.

Naughty Nigel
14th May 2019, 05:38 PM
What about taxi drivers keeping warm?

And what about bus drivers? They seem to be some of the worst offenders.

TimP
14th May 2019, 07:54 PM
My car has stop/start and I use my discretion when I let it do it’s thing. If I’ve just arrived st lights then I might let it, if I’ve arrived and I’ve seen on approach that the lights are likely to turn green within a second or three then I will keep my foot on the clutch, thus preventing its stoppingness. I do think it should be about those that drive company vehicles and simply don’t care. On more then one occasion I’ve seen a British Gas van parked in local Sainsbury’s with engine running and still there when I’ve done my shopping, engine still running. Wuckfit. Anyway, no one to police it, like everything else, so genuine offenders will escape punishment while generally innocent people will get hammered.
Country gone to the dogs? Oh yes.

TimP
14th May 2019, 07:59 PM
If you drive a car with an old pre-alternator electrical system then I agree they wouldnt be able to cope with the constant demand for power.

I donít imagine there are more than a dozen drivers in the whole of the UK driving dynamo fitted cars as their everyday transport! I was replacing diode packs in alternators (as a Ďhomerí) back in the 70s, there wonít be many (any?) k-reg cars commuting today!

Naughty Nigel
14th May 2019, 08:15 PM
What I dislike about these penalties is that like speed cameras, they will only affect those driving legally registered vehicles. They will not affect those driving unregistered vehicles with no tax, insurance or MOT (and probably no driving licence) because the automated systems don't know who to send the paperwork to.

Given the lack of police I doubt that catching them would be a priority unless they 'offended the wrong people on social media'.

We really have got our priorities wrong in my view.

TimP
14th May 2019, 08:26 PM
Agree, totally wrong. But it will get results, results that can influence people and someone will get promoted for making things better. Utter bullshit. Those of us who abide by most rules will be affected, rather than the scumbags who abide by none.

Clockwork Donkey
14th May 2019, 08:30 PM
Cue the formation of yet another group of private company enforcers paid for by you and me from our council tax. They will pounce on anyone leaving their engine running for a millisecond after having stopped. Having a flat battery and therefore unable to re-start will cut no mustard, neither will being cold or needing the engine to clear a misted windscreen Beware, these things will come to pass.

These clowns will of course be paid bonuses for each ticket issued.

Naughty Nigel
14th May 2019, 10:20 PM
Quite a few newer cars are fitted with remote control systems and timers to start the engine and have the car ready warmed up or cooled down for when the driver steps in. What will happen to these?

RobEW
15th May 2019, 07:30 AM
What about taxi drivers keeping warm?

And what about bus drivers? They seem to be some of the worst offenders.

Maybe the taxi drivers should wear a pullover. Most of their customers will be in outdoor clothing and don't really want to be overheated while in a taxi. As for buses, I expect the bus companies make a considered decision on how long a stop should require switching off, based on emissions, fuel costs and effectiveness, and incorporate this into their training. In any case, buses are part of the solution, not the problem, moving far more passenger miles per unit emission than cars.

As for who's going to enforce, it, it's true that the police are overstretched. However maybe even the possibility of a fine may improve some people's behaviour. The effectiveness of a financial deterrent depends partly on the sum involved, partly on the perceived likelihood of being caught, and partly ono the wealth of the individual. (The latter could be reduced in a way which arguably is more just, if fines were more dependent on wealth and affordability).

Naughty Nigel
15th May 2019, 07:49 AM
As for buses, I expect the bus companies make a considered decision on how long a stop should require switching off, based on emissions, fuel costs and effectiveness, and incorporate this into their training.


Not in my experience. I have often seen and hear buses, and particularity long distance coaches with engines left running for hours, quite literally. Likewise some lorries It is almost as if the sound of the engine provides comfort to the driver.

(I once had the joy of a long distance tour bus with its engine running outside my hotel room from 5.30 am. It didn't leave with its party of Japanese tourists until 07.40 am.)

In any case, buses are part of the solution, not the problem, moving far more passenger miles per unit emission than cars.

Buses are only the solution if they go where passengers want to go, and when, and are used. A 52 seater bus with four passengers on board is more polluting than four cars.

The problem with many rural buses is that they take such slow and circuitous routes, and run so infrequently that few people with a choice will use them. Railway branch lines were much more direct and efficient, but expensive to run.

sapper
15th May 2019, 09:07 AM
The only vague excuse is to keep warm in the winter.

Must admit at traffic light etc, I keep my RX8 engine on, just in case it won't start.....though I have solved that problem (touch wood) with a £3000 engine refurb...:(

*chr

I had an RX8, lovely motor, although juicy. I had problems starting it a few times, £300 a pop for a man to come and change the plugs! Then an engineer told me to keep the revs high when switching off, which used to annoy my wife when i came home late at night:) But cured the starting problem.
Got a boring, but cheap to run, Astra now, wish I had just but the bullet and kept the RX8:(

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 08:32 AM
Well it seems there could be a solution.

BBC Report - Drone flying at 9,000 feet (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48352513)

If, as reported, drones can fly at 9,000 feet plus, and 29 miles from land we will all have our own personal air transport, all powered by a small Li-ion battery. :rolleyes:

TimP
23rd May 2019, 08:36 AM
Ideal! What could possibly go wrong.

I’m dreading the day the damn noisy things are used for deliveries, can you imagine the noise, all sodding day long I expect.

MJ224
23rd May 2019, 08:38 AM
I am amazed that the pilot could actually see the drone as he must have been flying at 200 mph plus.........

The techies will build their own drones, so there is no inbuilt flying height limit, as there is in mine. But it does not take a genius to get round that limitation. ( I have not got there yet, and have no desire to do so):)

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 08:39 AM
Ideal! What could possibly go wrong.

Iím dreading the day the damn noisy things are used for deliveries, can you imagine the noise, all sodding day long I expect.

It'll be like Sunday afternoons when the lawnmower symphony starts, with solo parts by strimmers, hedge cutters electric drills and pressure washers. :(

Regarding the drone report, I think somebody need to do some homework as I doubt there are any civilian drones with that sort of range or altitude capability.

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 08:41 AM
I am amazed that the pilot could actually see the drone as he must have been flying at 200 mph plus.........

I wonder whether the Pilot had been visiting one of those funny 'cake' shops they have in Amsterdam?

MJ224
23rd May 2019, 08:42 AM
It'll be like Sunday afternoons when the lawnmower symphony starts, with solo parts by strimmers, hedge cutters electric drills and pressure washers. :(

Regarding the drone report, I think somebody need to do some homework as I doubt there are any civilian drones with that sort of range or altitude capability.

Drone Reaches 33,00ft Which Is As High As Most Planes - YouTube

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 08:44 AM
The altitude may well be possible, but at least nine miles from land?

MJ224
23rd May 2019, 08:46 AM
The altitude may well be possible, but at least nine miles from land?

Aaah, not done the maths on that............

More likely a very high flying bird then (Not the trolley dolly)...*chr

TimP
23rd May 2019, 09:31 AM
It'll be like Sunday afternoons when the lawnmower symphony starts, with solo parts by strimmers, hedge cutters electric drills and pressure washers. :(


At least thatís mainly only Sunday (unless youíre my neighbour who seems to pamper his lawn every couple of days). Delivery drones could potentially be 8+ hours a day, on and off and then in the evenings itíll be the ones delivering crap food to poor people. A bit later itíll be alcohol deliveries. Fingers crossed it never happens.

Naughty Nigel
23rd May 2019, 02:22 PM
At least that’s mainly only Sunday (unless you’re my neighbour who seems to pamper his lawn every couple of days). Delivery drones could potentially be 8+ hours a day, on and off and then in the evenings it’ll be the ones delivering crap food to poor people. A bit later it’ll be alcohol deliveries. Fingers crossed it never happens.

I would love to see the drones negotiate the overhead electricity cables in our village.

At least the McDonald's meal deal wouldn't be delivered cold. :D

TimP
23rd May 2019, 02:34 PM
I would love to see the drones negotiate the overhead electricity cables in our village.


Now that should make for some interesting photography!