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wornish
2nd May 2019, 04:42 PM
Article on Sky news claims the majority of Brits are unwilling to change their lifestyle to fight climate change.

https://news.sky.com/story/majority-of-brits-unwilling-to-cut-back-to-fight-climate-change-poll-finds-11709486

Walti
2nd May 2019, 04:50 PM
Trying to do my bit... I'm doing all of the above! (as well as a little more!)

Jim Ford
2nd May 2019, 04:58 PM
Of course 'Brits' won't take action. Like very other human on the Planet they can only think of the short term.

It's the same with the prediction that insects could die out within a century. If you say that insects are dying out to people, probably 7 out of 10 will say 'good riddance - nasty creepy crawlies', ignoring that insects are at or near the bottom of the pyramid that sustains life, including our own!

I'm _very_ pessimistic about the future of the planet as we know it now.

Jim

TimP
2nd May 2019, 05:30 PM
Same as Walti, doing my bit although I’m not yet ready to cut down on air travel. I’m only here the once and value experiences more than possessions or house, so all the time we can put up with the horrors of long distance air travel then we’re going to do it.
Besides, all the time the experts are jetting off around the world for climate change conferences, no doubt at 1st class rates, then I’m not going to feel any guilt whatsoever.
Gone pretty green around the house, greatly reduced electric and gas consumption. No longer commuting so fuel bill has gone from £30 a week to £30 a month.
If Brits won’t take action to reduce even things like utility bills then more fool them, let alone any effect on the planet

Naughty Nigel
3rd May 2019, 07:53 AM
Most people are inherently selfish and will only do what is in their own interests, or that of immediate family.

Diet is very personal to most of us so asking people to stop eating McDonald's burgers, their Sunday roast or Friday night curry is a non-starter in the short term at least, even though a change of diet might improve our health.

I certainly avoid flying wherever possible; not just for environmental reasons but because the advent of budget airlines, small seats, overcrowded aeroplanes and present security restrictions have made flying a miserable experience for all of us. I really hate it to be honest but sometimes it has to be done.

However I feel there is general resentment to making personal sacrifices when we see massive wastage of corporate energy all around us, for example High Street shops propping doors wide open in winter; and when successive governments have made it their business to get us off of public transport and onto the roads. Having finally realised their mistake government is taxing us for doing what government wanted!

There is also resentment that we were encouraged to buy diesel cars to save the planet and are now being penalised for using them.

Public transport is far too expensive for many people and often doesn't go where we want to. I need to travel to Devizes for a job shortly. Being a reasonable sized town I tried to book a rail ticket there only to see a message saying "Destination not found". Slightly puzzled I Googled 'Devizes Railway Station' and found it was closed to passenger traffic in 1964 but there are plans to reopen it 'at some point'. :rolleyes:

As for the loss of creepy crawlies I think Jim is absolutely right; many people would see this as a good thing. Just look at what happens when a perfectly harmless spider is spotted in the house.

TimP
3rd May 2019, 08:25 AM
Diet. I forgot to rant about that.
How do people, often those with less disposable income, seem to think that somewhere like McDonalds is a place to get a cheap meal?? The cost of a meal in there, including drinks, ought to be enough to feed an entire family for up to a week. That’s not even beginning to cover the crapness of it or the health risks of all that processed ‘food’.
Same with chip shops, I occasionally pick up a small child’s portion for my mum, having just chips myself (I know! But it’s an occasional treat OK ) and am staggered at the cost, yet the chip shop, on a small parade of shops next to social housing, is always packed and it’s not people driving there from more affluent areas either, yet there they are, buying chips at over £2 and paying god knows what for canned drinks. The shop must be an absolute gold mine.
Public transport: appalling if you don’t live in a major city. Over priced and few options. I can imagine those in the DoT scratching their heads about why people complain and then getting chauffeured home in an official car.
My diesel car will be the last I buy, possibly the same with the petrol one too although goodness knows how we’ll travel within the UK with an electric car. The idea of stopping off for a recharge and lunch is all very well but I might not want lunch in a motorway services (unless perhaps it’s those excellent ones at Gloucester) and what if there’s no spare chargers anyway? Do I wait an hour or two or three before I can charge.
I was sold the idea that life would get better! Rubbish!

Jim Ford
3rd May 2019, 08:39 AM
Diet. I forgot to rant about that.
<snip>
I was sold the idea that life would get better! Rubbish!

Yes, but apart from that, what's wrong with modern life? ;)

Jim

chorleyjeff
3rd May 2019, 08:56 AM
Of course 'Brits' won't take action. Like very other human on the Planet they can only think of the short term.

It's the same with the prediction that insects could die out within a century. If you say that insects are dying out to people, probably 7 out of 10 will say 'good riddance - nasty creepy crawlies', ignoring that insects are at or near the bottom of the pyramid that sustains life, including our own!

I'm _very_ pessimistic about the future of the planet as we know it now.

Jim

Of course, in the long term, the planet will die regardless of human activity - if any. It is just a question of time.

TimP
3rd May 2019, 09:53 AM
Yes, but apart from that, what's wrong with modern life? ;)

Jim

Mine’s fine, I do love a good moan though. Seems there’s more to moan about nowadays as we’re constantly being told how good stuff is and how much better off we all are. I’m not convinced. Saying that, not having ice on the insides of windows is certainly better than when I was a kid.

TimP
3rd May 2019, 09:54 AM
Of course, in the long term, the planet will die regardless of human activity - if any. It is just a question of time.

Is it something we all should be preparing for, like now?
:D

Jax
3rd May 2019, 10:07 AM
Is it something we all should be preparing for, like now?
:D

Yes, of course ! Just make sure your life insurance covers total planetary destruction :D

Jax

chorleyjeff
3rd May 2019, 10:11 AM
Mine’s fine, I do love a good moan though. Seems there’s more to moan about nowadays as we’re constantly being told how good stuff is and how much better off we all are. I’m not convinced. Saying that, not having ice on the insides of windows is certainly better than when I was a kid.

Depends how old you are.
Remember polio ? Friends with withered legs and in iron lungs ?
Remember smog so thick that we were breathing muck ?
Remember one coal fire to heat a house ?
Remember talking about whether to whitewash house windows for when hydrogen bombs landed ?
Remember talking about how far you had to be from a hydrogen bomb explosion to live.?
Remember being beaten at school for not being able to recite a poem ?
Remember all those men ( mostly) worn out by manual labour who died in their 60s ?
I could go on and on.
Life in the Uk has never been better by any objective measure.
My grandparents thought being tenant farmers milking cows twice a day for 365 days a year and not having mains water, sewers, electricity or gas was just how it was. Maybe if the sun was shining when they had their two hours rest on Sunday afternoon life seemed OK The rest of the time it was just continuous hard work providing just enough money to survive. And that was typical of life for most people before WW1.
Think yourself lucky to be living here now.

Naughty Nigel
3rd May 2019, 10:11 AM
Yes, but apart from that, what's wrong with modern life? ;)

Jim

Quite a lot I would say. The impregnability of big business and incompetence of successive governments has a lot to do with it.

Naughty Nigel
3rd May 2019, 10:16 AM
Life in the Uk has never been better by any objective measure.

Think yourself lucky to be living here now.

Agreed, but there is massive frustration caused by the impregnability of big business and the incompetence of successive governments.

Being expected to wait two hours to speak to a human being who barely understands your language is just one such example.

Jax
3rd May 2019, 10:27 AM
Depends how old you are.
Remember polio ? Friends with withered legs and in iron lungs ?
Remember smog so thick that we were breathing muck ?
Remember one coal fire to heat a house ?
Remember talking about whether to whitewash house windows for when hydrogen bombs landed ?
Remember talking about how far you had to be from a hydrogen bomb explosion to live.?
Remember being beaten at school for not being able to recite a poem ?
Remember all those men ( mostly) worn out by manual labour who died in their 60s ?
I could go on and on.
Life in the Uk has never been better by any objective measure.
My grandparents thought being tenant farmers milking cows twice a day for 365 days a year and not having mains water, sewers, electricity or gas was just how it was. Maybe if the sun was shining when they had their two hours rest on Sunday afternoon life seemed OK The rest of the time it was just continuous hard work providing just enough money to survive. And that was typical of life for most people before WW1.
Think yourself lucky to be living here now.


Nope, sorry, I can't remember any of those, in fact I can't remember life before WW2 let alone WW1. :)


Jax

Bikie John
3rd May 2019, 10:36 AM
Of course, in the long term, the planet will die regardless of human activity - if any. It is just a question of time.

Fair point, but ......

The planet won't die, except in the very very very long term (unless we do something truly apocalyptically stupid and blow it to pieces). Humans, on the other hand, will collectively turn to dust much more quickly. And although we have been doing a pretty good job of wiping out other species I'm pretty sure that enough life will survive in some form to carry on pretty well without us.

John

Naughty Nigel
3rd May 2019, 10:39 AM
Life in the Uk has never been better by any objective measure.
My grandparents thought being tenant farmers milking cows twice a day for 365 days a year and not having mains water, sewers, electricity or gas was just how it was. Maybe if the sun was shining when they had their two hours rest on Sunday afternoon life seemed OK The rest of the time it was just continuous hard work providing just enough money to survive. And that was typical of life for most people before WW1.
Think yourself lucky to be living here now.

Thinking on, there has always been hard work in some industries, and farming in particular.

But I doubt that your grandparents would have endured the frantic pace of work that is now imposed on many people today, often watched by CCTV or tracked by GPS every minute of the day.

Think of your Amazon delivery driver, now delivering your food, who has such an impossible delivery schedule that he has to take a dump in the back of his van!

Think of call centre operatives who are wired to their desks and have to meet targets for the length of calls, number of sales made and so forth.

There was a time when all but emergency services and essential services had Sundays and bank holidays off, but that simple pleasure is long gone for many. And all for what? :(

TimP
3rd May 2019, 11:23 AM
Fair point, but ......

The planet won't die, except in the very very very long term (unless we do something truly apocalyptically stupid and blow it to pieces).


Well, with Trump in the US the chances seem to have massively increased. Him and a combination of other so called world leaders certainly isn’t helping reduce those chances.

TimP
3rd May 2019, 11:31 AM
Depends how old you are.
Remember polio ? Friends with withered legs and in iron lungs ?
Remember smog so thick that we were breathing muck ?
Remember one coal fire to heat a house ?
Remember talking about whether to whitewash house windows for when hydrogen bombs landed ?
Remember talking about how far you had to be from a hydrogen bomb explosion to live.?
Remember being beaten at school for not being able to recite a poem ?
Remember all those men ( mostly) worn out by manual labour who died in their 60s ?
I could go on and on.
Life in the Uk has never been better by any objective measure.
My grandparents thought being tenant farmers milking cows twice a day for 365 days a year and not having mains water, sewers, electricity or gas was just how it was. Maybe if the sun was shining when they had their two hours rest on Sunday afternoon life seemed OK The rest of the time it was just continuous hard work providing just enough money to survive. And that was typical of life for most people before WW1.
Think yourself lucky to be living here now.

Polio gone, but has it not been replaced with other things? HIV for example
Smog gone but environmentalists would have you believe city air is deadly, hence London’s low emission zones etc
1 coal fire? All the rage now, albeit burning a wood form of carbon.
Hydrogen bomb probably a better way to go than a terrorist attack.
Beaten at school? Zero discipline now, gone far too far the other way, bring back the cane.
Instead of manual labour we’ve now got people dying of obesity related issues, I’d prefer the manual labour thanks.

So, I think in general, I stand by my comments.

Naughty Nigel
3rd May 2019, 12:13 PM
Rather than asking the public to change their diets, in the first instance we should tackle the abhorrent amount of corporate food waste; nearly all of which is avoidable.

For example, there is no reason why most perishable foods cannot be frozen on their 'use by' date and then either sold at a discount, given to food banks, the needy or charity.

Abandoning the senseless mantra of year-on-year growth would also help the environment whilst improving the quality of life for the majority of the workforce. That way there would be less need for big business to bleed consumers dry at every possible opportunity.

chorleyjeff
10th May 2019, 07:46 AM
Agreed, but there is massive frustration caused by the impregnability of big business and the incompetence of successive governments.

Being expected to wait two hours to speak to a human being who barely understands your language is just one such example.

Sorry for late reply.
First world problems are annoying but hardly critical to life.
Don't you remember life here before phones were not in most peoples' homes ?
There was no problem waiting for someone in India to tell you how to make your technology work.

chorleyjeff
10th May 2019, 07:48 AM
Nope, sorry, I can't remember any of those, in fact I can't remember life before WW2 let alone WW1. :)


Jax
Neither can I
Silly response
It was how life was after WW2.
Try reading some recent history.

Naughty Nigel
10th May 2019, 07:58 AM
Sorry for late reply.
First world problems are annoying but hardly critical to life.
Don't you remember life here before phones were not in most peoples' homes ?

It is critical for life when the people you are trying to contact have your bank details and are emptying your bank account to pay for something that you didn't ask for and have no way of telling them you don't want.

Phoning is futile: they keep you on hold for hours and charge 25 pence per minute to listen to piped music with regular announcements telling you to visit the website. Letters and faxes go unanswered whilst emails bounce back.

Cancelling the direct debit is easy enough but you then receive a notice of intended legal proceedings to recover the outstanding amount. So you try to contact them again ........... :mad:

Otto
10th May 2019, 08:45 AM
It was how life was after WW2.
Try reading some recent history.

I can certainly remember most of your list, having grown up in the 1950s and I don't miss most of them! I can also remember personal service in shops, being able to travel by road without sitting in jams for hours, by rail in carriages with comfortable seats next to windows you could see out of, and being able to play outside with my friends in relative safety and freedom so I learned a few life skills, being able to fix my own car when it went wrong, and having to have an arrangement with my bank to withdraw cash over the counter when I went to uni.

The problem is we cannot see into the future. Remember there were people around at the turn of the 20th century predicting that London would be so many feet deep in horse dung in the future if something wasn't done about the rising number of horses in the city!


That said our present lifestyle is obviously unsustainable. However I don't appreciate being told that by people who have more than two kids, drive Range Rovers etc. etc! Almost all our problems today are caused mostly by overpopulation. That is still a taboo subject with many people, but it is an inconvenient truth.

MJ224
10th May 2019, 08:51 AM
Anyway, problem is solved......or a solution has been found.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48069663

*chr

Otto
10th May 2019, 09:14 AM
All of that is treating the symptom and not the cause, like sticking a plaster on a weeping sore.

MJ224
10th May 2019, 09:36 AM
All of that is treating the symptom and not the cause, like sticking a plaster on a weeping sore.

Agreed, but it might help a bit...……..*chr

Jax
10th May 2019, 09:59 AM
Agreed, but it might help a bit...……..*chr


Suitable comment for a headstone: "The Medication Helped A Bit"

Jax

Naughty Nigel
10th May 2019, 10:27 AM
Anyway, problem is solved......or a solution has been found.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48069663

*chr

What could possibly go wrong? :)

Naughty Nigel
10th May 2019, 10:33 AM
All of that is treating the symptom and not the cause, like sticking a plaster on a weeping sore.

Indeed. And the whole idea that we can easily capture carbon and spray snow onto the polar ice caps leads the masses to believe that we can just carry on as normal.

Ricoh
10th May 2019, 11:09 AM
Let's assume for one minute the UK becomes carbon neutral by 2050, do you think the US and China are going to copy us. But what about the methane problem? Little is said about the extreme danger this presents, being approx 80x time more effective in increasing the greenhouse effect.

Otto
10th May 2019, 11:15 AM
There's no harm in the UK setting an example and doing what we can. Somebody has to be first, and since we invented the Industrial Revolution perhaps we have some responsibility to start clearing up the fallout.

Naughty Nigel
10th May 2019, 11:20 AM
Let's assume for one minute the UK becomes carbon neutral by 2050, do you think the US and China are going to copy us. But what about the methane problem? Little is said about the extreme danger this presents, being approx 80x time more effective in increasing the greenhouse effect.

Perhaps then we should be capturing methane gas and using it rather than fracking for it?

Jax
10th May 2019, 11:25 AM
But what about the methane problem? Little is said about the extreme danger this presents, being approx 80x time more effective in increasing the greenhouse effect.

I seem to recall reading that jet engines play a part in gobbling up methane gas. In which case all the holiday makers, football teams, celebs, politicians etc. etc. etc. jetting all over the world, will relax and feel justified in the knowledge they are doing their bit in the fight against Global Warming. :D

Jax

Naughty Nigel
10th May 2019, 11:31 AM
I seem to recall reading that jet engines play a part in gobbling up methane gas. In which case all the holiday makers, football teams, celebs, politicians etc. etc. etc. jetting all over the world, will relax and feel justified in the knowledge they are doing their bit in the fight against Global Warming. :D

Jax

Yes I believe this is true. I don't know how efficient jet aircraft are at burning methane, what the concentration of methane is in the atmosphere or whether there are concentrations at specific altitudes.

Concorde was claimed to damage the ozone layer owing to its cruising altitude. Perhaps if jet aircraft were to cruise at a certain altitude it would help to clean up methane.

MJ224
10th May 2019, 11:43 AM
Anyway, problem is solved......or a solution has been found.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48069663

*chr

Just in case you thought so, I was not being too serious.....*chr*chr

Ricoh
10th May 2019, 11:46 AM
There's no harm in the UK setting an example and doing what we can. Somebody has to be first, and since we invented the Industrial Revolution perhaps we have some responsibility to start clearing up the fallout.
I quote Brian Cox (in spirit, not word for word you understand). More should be spent on nuclear fusion R&D. It would solve the world’s energy crisis, and the water / and thus food issues awaiting us. 2.5% of GDP spent per country world-wide and used effectively we could prevent thermal run-away.

Ricoh
10th May 2019, 11:51 AM
Yes I believe this is true. I don't know how efficient jet aircraft are at burning methane, what the concentration of methane is in the atmosphere or whether there are concentrations at specific altitudes.

Concorde was claimed to damage the ozone layer owing to its cruising altitude. Perhaps if jet aircraft were to cruise at a certain altitude it would help to clean up methane.
What about aircraft contrails adding to cloud cover, providing a thermal blanket.

chorleyjeff
10th May 2019, 11:54 AM
Nope, sorry, I can't remember any of those, in fact I can't remember life before WW2 let alone WW1. :)


Jax

Neither can I remember WW2 being born at the end of 1945.
Try speaking to people who lived during the real austerity of post WW2 Europe or read some accounts of life as lead by people who were not well off or articulate.
Day to day life for most people was much more difficult than it is today but the rosy glow of nostalgia seems to rub out that reality.

chorleyjeff
10th May 2019, 12:00 PM
There's no harm in the UK setting an example and doing what we can. Somebody has to be first, and since we invented the Industrial Revolution perhaps we have some responsibility to start clearing up the fallout.

Would certainly do no harm but globally would be insignificant. I can't imagine that our actions would influence the governments and dictatorships of Africa, Asia or the Americas who all want more of what we have.

Jax
10th May 2019, 12:13 PM
Neither can I remember WW2 being born at the end of 1945.
Try speaking to people who lived during the real austerity of post WW2 Europe or read some accounts of life as lead by people who were not well off or articulate.
Day to day life for most people was much more difficult than it is today but the rosy glow of nostalgia seems to rub out that reality.

I appreciate threads always drift off topic but i'm struggling to find the relevance in respect of Climate Change or anything else for that matter :confused:

Jax

Wally
11th May 2019, 07:53 AM
With all this gloom & doom it might be of interest to know that 'Mother Nature' would appear to be on top of things... forward planning. Something we humans appear from a recent and ongoing fiasco, just one, out of the many, haven't a clue what it's about.

Back from extinction: Been there, done it and back again... and again. --> https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-discover-bird-that-came-back-from-the-dead-11715532

TimP
11th May 2019, 09:39 AM
Yes, of course ! Just make sure your life insurance covers total planetary destruction :D

Jax

Life insurance? Don’t actually think I have any.

Ricoh
11th May 2019, 12:18 PM
Back on climate change...
Are we to expect electric 50T lorries on the road, and 300 passenger electric aircraft flying.
If these are exempt after 2050, it’s going to pile a load of pressure elsewhere.

Electric container ships, or back to sails I wonder.

TimP
11th May 2019, 02:37 PM
Back to shipping freight on the railways would be a start.

Wally
11th May 2019, 04:26 PM
Back to shipping freight on the railways would be a start.

:tup It worked well... until Mr. Beeching fixed it.:t-dwn Can see no reason for it not to work again.

Ditch the HS2 vanity vanity type of project and spend the dosh getting freight back on the rails. Might even create jobs in areas that need them.

The further afield from the Londom centric mindset the better.

Jim Ford
11th May 2019, 04:31 PM
Back to shipping freight on the railways would be a start.

The road transport lobby is politically very powerful - so it isn't going to happen!

Jim

Otto
11th May 2019, 04:36 PM
The trouble with putting freight on the railways is you still need lorries to load and unload the trains! I suspect that's the main reason freight left the railways in the first place, the extra transhipment takes more time and costs more money. Also, during the day at least the rails are pretty much full with passenger traffic.

Wally
11th May 2019, 04:57 PM
Perhaps, if we can catch them young enough when they stilll think outside the box, the future generation can change things around?

Food for thought: --> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/environment/i-know-exactly-how-we-can-solve-our-environmental-crisis-%E2%80%93-we-just-need-to-pass-this-one-simple-law/ar-AAB4AYc?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

As for man's best friend etc., causing climate damage... --> https://www.greenmatters.com/news/2018/02/19/2m3wBf/border-collies-forest

Naughty Nigel
11th May 2019, 08:32 PM
The trouble with putting freight on the railways is you still need lorries to load and unload the trains! I suspect that's the main reason freight left the railways in the first place, the extra transhipment takes more time and costs more money. Also, during the day at least the rails are pretty much full with passenger traffic.

No; the reason rail freight failed was that it became too slow, expensive and inefficient with increasing numbers of strikes leaving freight stranded in marshalling yards around the country, which in the case of perishable goods was disastrous.

Until the 1960's mixed freight and passenger traffic was commonplace, but that became incompatible with higher speed passenger trains. Loading and unloading goods at stations also took time which would probably be unacceptable in today's fast paced world.

Interestingly, the most expensive element of freight transportation was distributing goods the final few miles from the railway station to the customer. Back in the day Rougeline, sorry, Roadline was set up to handle this freight but road hauliers started dropping their loads at local railway stations for local distribution which effectively bankrupted the operation.

Ricoh
11th May 2019, 09:59 PM
What can the British do (broaden this to the whole of the UK) to reduce climate change due to the effects of shipping? Reduce imports / exports? Use sailing galleons? Battery powered ships? None of those in fact, we're not an island when it comes to international trade, we rely on goods and raw materials from around the world.

Graham_of_Rainham
12th May 2019, 06:38 AM
Start with non essentials...

Ban all exercise. Simple conservation of energy...

*chr

Otto
12th May 2019, 08:40 AM
Start with non essentials...

Ban all exercise. Simple conservation of energy...

*chr


Following my recent eye operation I was told to avoid heavy lifting, strenuous exercise and contact sports. This was not an onerous requirement ;).

Naughty Nigel
12th May 2019, 07:03 PM
What can the British do (broaden this to the whole of the UK) to reduce climate change due to the effects of shipping? Reduce imports / exports? Use sailing galleons? Battery powered ships?

The Swedes and Norwegians are in fact building and using battery powered ships for 'internal' routes, but then both Sweden and Norway have plentiful supplies of hydro-electricity.

This is something that may well work for some of Scotland's shorter ferry routes given the amount of wind power generated north of the border.