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Jax
23rd March 2019, 11:26 AM
It is now over 24 hours since the most recent thread closure. Shenstone stated this was only a temporary measure to allow Admin time to debate.

Are we, as members, going to be given the courtesy of being informed what decision has been reached or is it a case of No Comment and the thread simply to remain closed ?

Jax

Graham_of_Rainham
23rd March 2019, 11:44 AM
We have always been concerned about threads that become “personal”.

While the “Lounge” is available for virtually any discussion and opinions, it’s never nice to see the tone turn negative or even nasty...

Saying things that you would likely not say to someone, face to face, has that huge disadvantage of lacking the body language and expressions that often give a remark a very different slant.

*chr

Bengeo
23rd March 2019, 11:44 AM
..... or is it a case of No Comment and the thread simply to remain closed ?


Hopefully .....

Jax
23rd March 2019, 11:52 AM
We have always been concerned about threads that become “personal”.

While the “Lounge” is available for virtually any discussion and opinions, it’s never nice to see the tone turn negative or even nasty...

Saying things that you would likely not say to someone, face to face, has that huge disadvantage of lacking the body language and expressions that often give a remark a very different slant.

*chr

Very valid comment Graham but unfortunately, with the same skill as a seasoned politician, you have managed to totally avoid the question asked. :)

Jax

Graham_of_Rainham
23rd March 2019, 12:00 PM
Very valid comment Graham but unfortunately, with the same skill as a seasoned politician, you have managed to totally avoid the question asked. :)

Jax

I can’t help but wonder if having any skills of politicians is the ultimate insult... ;)

I do accept your point and will bring it back to attention.

*chr

Jax
23rd March 2019, 12:05 PM
I can’t help but wonder if having any skills of politicians is the ultimate insult... ;)

I do accept your point and will bring it back to attention.

*chr

There was no insult intended Graham although I do agree with you that it could have been considered so :)

Thank you for bringing it back to attention. *chr

Jax

Zuiko
23rd March 2019, 12:25 PM
It is now over 24 hours since the most recent thread closure. Shenstone stated this was only a temporary measure to allow Admin time to debate.

Are we, as members, going to be given the courtesy of being informed what decision has been reached or is it a case of No Comment and the thread simply to remain closed ?

Jax

Unfortunately we do have lives outside the forum and it is not always possible for the four of us to consult each other as quickly as we would like. In this instance Ian has been busy with the Photo Show, editing his pod cast and, I believe, attending a certain demonstration in London today, which is perhaps a more appropriate platform for expressing views on the most topical current affair than a photo forum.

Graham has only just returned from holiday and needs time to get up to date with what's been happening. My 92 year old Mum had a heart operation on Thursday and my wife and son continue to suffer ill health, requiring regular hospital appointments. Oh, and then there is my Parkinson's, which quickly gets out of control when I get any stress. Despite all this Andy, Ian and I have had preliminary discussions on the options available to us, including some form of restricted forum page that would be less strictly moderated but available only on application.

Of course, we could simply tire of all the hassle that political topics cause us and the constant criticism of the way we moderate these threads and adopt a No Politics policy like many other photo forums. So, are you going to allow us time to review our policy in a measured, thoughtful way or not?

Jax
23rd March 2019, 12:37 PM
Unfortunately we do have lives outside the forum and it is not always possible for the four of us to consult each other as quickly as we would like. In this instance Ian has been busy with the Photo Show, editing his pod cast and, I believe, attending a certain demonstration in London today, which is perhaps a more appropriate platform for expressing views on the most topical current affair than a photo forum.

Graham has only just returned from holiday and needs time to get up to date with what's been happening. My 92 year old Mum had a heart operation on Thursday and my wife and son continue to suffer ill health, requiring regular hospital appointments. Oh, and then there is my Parkinson's, which quickly gets out of control when I get any stress. Despite all this Andy, Ian and I have had preliminary discussions on the options available to us, including some form of restricted forum page that would be less strictly moderated but available only on application.

Of course, we could simply tire of all the hassle that political topics cause us and the constant criticism of the way we moderate these threads and adopt a No Politics policy like many other photo forums. So, are you going to allow us time to review our policy in a measured, thoughtful way or not?

Jeeez ! Calm down, take a deep breath ! I only asked :D


Jax

Zuiko
23rd March 2019, 12:46 PM
Jeeez ! Calm down, take a deep breath ! I only asked :D


Jax

Thank you for your advice

Bengeo
23rd March 2019, 12:47 PM
.... adopt a No Politics policy like many other photo forums.

Good idea. Simple to moderate too, just delete anything that breaks the rule.

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 01:28 PM
Good idea. Simple to moderate too, just delete anything that breaks the rule.

As the member who made the original complaint, I think that having a No Politics rule may go some way towards reducing friction but not entirely.

Certain members seem to delight in making aggressive, inconsiderate posts and have a history of doing so, whether the subject is politics or not.

I appreciate as Graham pointed out, in a textual medium instead of face to face, these comments are sometimes mis-interpreted so we can possibly all be guilty occasionally. However, until the members who DO enjoy making aggressive and unsavoury comments either learn restraint or are dealt with by Admin, IMHO the problem will continue.

Maybe as opposed to a closed, application only, political thread, we should create "The Boxing Ring" where these members can vent their spleen, argue, fight, be agressive, just be their normal selves with no restrictions. :)

Darkroom

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 01:50 PM
Unfortunately we do have lives outside the forum and it is not always possible for the four of us to consult each other as quickly as we would like. In this instance Ian has been busy with the Photo Show, editing his pod cast and, I believe, attending a certain demonstration in London today, which is perhaps a more appropriate platform for expressing views on the most topical current affair than a photo forum.

Graham has only just returned from holiday and needs time to get up to date with what's been happening. My 92 year old Mum had a heart operation on Thursday and my wife and son continue to suffer ill health, requiring regular hospital appointments. Oh, and then there is my Parkinson's, which quickly gets out of control when I get any stress. Despite all this Andy, Ian and I have had preliminary discussions on the options available to us, including some form of restricted forum page that would be less strictly moderated but available only on application.

Of course, we could simply tire of all the hassle that political topics cause us and the constant criticism of the way we moderate these threads and adopt a No Politics policy like many other photo forums. So, are you going to allow us time to review our policy in a measured, thoughtful way or not?

This seems to be a rather unnecessary over reaction by an Administrator to what is a genuine polite basic question from a forum member. :confused:

Darkroom

Graham_of_Rainham
23rd March 2019, 01:53 PM
No where near comparison with John, but I was also in hospital yesterday having an operation on my nose...

Now it’s much better looking and shorter so as not to activate the touchscreen :D

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 02:02 PM
No where near comparison with John, but I was also in hospital yesterday having an operation on my nose...

Now it’s much better looking and shorter so as not to activate the touchscreen :D

That's good news Graham *chr I sincerely hope the operation was not due to an attack of Pinocchioitus :D:D:D

Darkroom

Tram
23rd March 2019, 02:15 PM
From my point of view its all harmless handbags at ten paces type stuff.
Happy to repeat anything I've ever written face to face, hardly vile abuse.

By their own admission the vast majority on here are getting on in years a bit.
Bit ironic that some take offense very quickly yet would condemn the younger generation for being over sensitive.

Why not just let things run. what's the worst outcome?
Someone flounces off or gets the sulks, not exactly the end of the world.
After all you can just choose to not look at a particular section or thread

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 02:27 PM
From my point of view its all harmless handbags at ten paces type stuff.
Happy to repeat anything I've ever written face to face, hardly vile abuse.

By their own admission the vast majority on here are getting on in years a bit.
Bit ironic that some take offense very quickly yet would condemn the younger generation for being over sensitive.

Why not just let things run. what's the worst outcome?
Someone flounces off or gets the sulks, not exactly the end of the world.
After all you can just choose to not look at a particular section or thread

Had a wander over to the Olympics stand, but didn't think too many, on here would be pleased to see me.
No point making anyone feel uncomfortable, know some of my views are not over popular
Saw a small group with the forum name badges on (three men and a woman) but thought better of it.

I rest my case Mi Lud :D

Darkroom

Tram
23rd March 2019, 02:36 PM
I rest my case Mi Lud :D

Darkroom
Proved what?
I didn't feel the need to make anyone feel uncomfortable if someone was there who had disagreed with me on a forum.
Did you go?

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 02:48 PM
Proved what?
I didn't feel the need to make anyone feel uncomfortable if someone was there who had disagreed with me on a forum.
Did you go?

I often disagree with people both in fora and in person, and visa versa. At no time would this ever stop me from enjoying their company over a coffee or a pint. Had the disagreement been aggressive, confrontational or obnoxious then I may feel differently but probably still say Hello.

No I didn't go to the exhibition so you were spared that torment :)

Darkroom

Tram
23rd March 2019, 03:08 PM
I often disagree with people both in fora and in person, and visa versa. At no time would this ever stop me from enjoying their company over a coffee or a pint. Had the disagreement been aggressive, confrontational or obnoxious then I may feel differently but probably still say Hello.

No I didn't go to the exhibition so you were spared that torment :)

Darkroom

Exactly my point, how do you know they enjoyed your company though?
Maybe if you're lucky you can enjoy my company one day :)

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 03:22 PM
Exactly my point, how do you know they enjoyed your company though?

What's not to like about being in the company of an old, paid in all my life, flag waver and gammon such as myself ? Besides, I'd no doubt end up buying the drinks.

Darkroom

Phill D
23rd March 2019, 03:59 PM
If only there was a way to put a tone of voice intonation into typed comments on the internet then all the hassle would be avoided and moderation would be easy and stress free.

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 05:22 PM
As I have suggested previously, I am increasingly coming to the view that we need an image of Zuiko showing a red or yellow card to offenders on the forum. That way everything would be open and transparent, and there would be fair warning of impending thread closures and sendings off. Anyone whining to the Referee trying to get others sent off should be sent for an early bath themselves.

In the meantime honourable members need to learn to play the ball, not each other. That way politics and other sensitive subjects can be discussed without them getting personal. As above, anyone who cannot abide by this rule should either receive a few hours in the 'sin bin' or treated to an early bath.

As in society, it is offenders who should be made to face justice. Taking away the freedoms of one and all is never a satisfactory solution and will always cause bad feeling.

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 06:52 PM
As I have suggested previously, I am increasingly coming to the view that we need an image of Zuiko showing a red or yellow card to offenders on the forum. That way everything would be open and transparent, and there would be fair warning of impending thread closures and sendings off. Anyone whining to the Referee trying to get others sent off should be sent for an early bath themselves.

In the meantime honourable members need to learn to play the ball, not each other. That way politics and other sensitive subjects can be discussed without them getting personal. As above, anyone who cannot abide by this rule should either receive a few hours in the 'sin bin' or treated to an early bath.

As in society, it is offenders who should be made to face justice. Taking away the freedoms of one and all is never a satisfactory solution and will always cause bad feeling.

The problem is when Admin do visit, for whatever reason they don't always see or recognise offensive posts. In that case, whining to the referee is the only alternative other than taking things into your own hands. Experience proves this only ends up in a slanging match between the complainant, offending member concerned and their Fan Boys.

Just for the record, at least I whined to the referee in the open playing field for all to see as opposed to sneaking behind members backs and using PM's. Am I still relegated to an early bath in your opinion :)

Your final comment is one I have made myself in here with not a hope in hell of ever seeing it put into practice. Closing a thread is obviously far easier and less stressful and confrontational than having to deal with the offending member concerned who simply waits a while for things to cool down and the saga begins again.

As always just my personal opinion which as a member ( for now anyway ) I believe i'm entitled to express.

Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 07:42 PM
Just for the record, at least I whined to the referee in the open playing field for all to see as opposed to sneaking behind members backs and using PM's. Am I still relegated to an early bath in your opinion :)

No; because you complained to the Referee during play, in full public view and not in the changing rooms.

TimP
23rd March 2019, 07:45 PM
I think we need a league table of naughtiness and our position on it.

Darkroom
23rd March 2019, 07:54 PM
No; because you complained to the Referee during play, in full public view and not in the changing rooms.

Hmmm seems a bit harsh ! I'm always very careful in those changing rooms. I buy Soap On A Rope and hang it round my neck. Dropping soap in the shower is anything but advisable. :)

Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 08:20 PM
I think we need a league table of naughtiness and our position on it.

Oh yes please! :D

sapper
23rd March 2019, 08:49 PM
Oh dear, missed all this.

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 08:51 PM
I buy Soap On A Rope and hang it round my neck. Dropping soap in the shower is anything but advisable. :)

Darkroom

Why does this remind me of school? :D

MJ224
23rd March 2019, 09:36 PM
Ignore list is quite active at the moment, not saying who,...………...*chr

"Deleted". I apologised for this outburst...……...

Reducing my enjoyment of the forum FOR CERTAIN...………..*smash

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 10:09 PM
Ignore list is quite active at the moment, not saying who,...………...*chr

Silly *uck*** just wanna argue about black being white...……..

**st**rds:mad:

Reducing my enjoyment of the forum FOR CERTAIN...………..*smash

Fair point Mark, but the question is; should forum discussion topics be dictated my a small minority of members with large chips on their shoulders?

Jim Ford
23rd March 2019, 10:13 PM
From my point of view its all harmless handbags at ten paces type stuff.
Happy to repeat anything I've ever written face to face, hardly vile abuse.

By their own admission the vast majority on here are getting on in years a bit.
Bit ironic that some take offense very quickly yet would condemn the younger generation for being over sensitive.

Why not just let things run. what's the worst outcome?
Someone flounces off or gets the sulks, not exactly the end of the world.
After all you can just choose to not look at a particular section or thread

Exactly my feelings on the matter! *yes

Jim

wornish
23rd March 2019, 10:38 PM
I also seem to have missed all the excitement! Who said what to whom?
What thread was closed:confused:

My contributions, for what they are worth, have dropped off and will probably stop if the forum becomes an online version of a "photography club" with admins who decide what is allowed to be said and what is not:(

Perhaps others prefer a photographic club style where "expert" royal photographic society approved judges know best *ohwell

Not for me, I actually enjoy the banter more so than the dry technical or any perceived "artistic" feedback that is given*chatty

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 11:21 PM
If only there was a way to put a tone of voice intonation into typed comments on the internet then all the hassle would be avoided and moderation would be easy and stress free.

Unfortunately there are one or two members who cannot help but try to score cynical and sarcastic political points when contributing to each and every discussion on almost any subject. At the present rate those threads will be closed too.

Naughty Nigel
23rd March 2019, 11:29 PM
I also seem to have missed all the excitement! Who said what to whom?
What thread was closed :confused:

If you look through the Lounge you will see that several threads have been locked over the last week or two. There was also a thread in the For Sale section that was locked owing to differences of opinion over the strict definition of 'Brand New in Box' or BNIB.

I think the final conclusion was that a brand new lens which had been taken out of its box, fitted to a camera and had a few test shots taken before being returned to said box could no longer be described as BNIB. :rolleyes:

pdk42
23rd March 2019, 11:37 PM
I honestly can't understand why we've been afflicted with all this durmst and strang recently. I'd suggest that we adopt what my old granny used to say - "if you can't find something nice to say about someone, say nothing". It might help us to cool things down if we practiced it for a few weeks.

Crazy Dave
23rd March 2019, 11:49 PM
It seems to me that there are members here who reflect the general tendency in society which places a great deal of emphasis on the right to say what they want, when they want with total freedom regardless of the impact. Maybe it’s the Trump effect, he who has been slagging off John McCain in his grave to shore up his following regardless of the impact on McCain’s Family. These days everything is about the rights of the individual, nowhere recently have I heard or read anything about the responsibility of the individual.

I’m appalled by the darts aimed at the administrators. They spend a great deal of time trying to keep this forum balanced and sane and if it’s too anodyne for some, a trip over to DP Review or heaven forebid the BBC football topics, should demonstrate just how good this forum is. There is more than enough bile out there, if it’s time-wasting vitriol that’s wanted, go ahead but not here please.

David

peak4
24th March 2019, 12:07 AM
I honestly can't understand why we've been afflicted with all this durmst and strang recently. I'd suggest that we adopt what my old granny used to say - "if you can't find something nice to say about someone, say nothing". It might help us to cool things down if we practiced it for a few weeks.

This was once one of the most friendly and helpful forums of which I'm a member, but seems to have been faced with some issues since late last summer/autumn.

I've seen a similar situation on my local city forum, where a small number of comparatively new members, posting deliberately confrontational comments, have lead to a sadly necessary higher level of moderation; a much lighter touch was adequate previously.

This aggrieved some of the old school members as well, understandably, as they knew and respected the limits of responsible social discourse.
They then found their own threads being moderated where it earlier wasn't required, as most folks treated each other well, and respected their differences; there was previously much lively debate, but little degeneration into insults; mods just didn't need to get that heavily involved, just like it used to be here.

Regretfully, it's lead to the near demise of one of the best local forums in the country, as most the old guard have largely just given up contributing.
I sincerely hope is doesn't happen here, and urge the "Old Guard" to remain, and not be drawn into what may sometimes seem to be deliberate provocation.

dcbrookes
24th March 2019, 12:13 AM
I for one would be very happy to see political subjects barred from the forum (not that I am disinterested - I am passionate about politics). Political discussions on the forum create more heat than light and are of no relevance to photography.


David

Gate Keeper
24th March 2019, 05:12 AM
Ignore list is quite active at the moment, not saying who,...………...*chr

Silly *uck*** just wanna argue about black being white...……..

**st**rds:mad:

Reducing my enjoyment of the forum FOR CERTAIN...………..*smash

Ah yes, but at the end of the day, you have wit, sailing and photography to fall back on. By the way, how did you get into organising the photo challenges?? a question I forgot to ask you at Westonbirt. Your belting out some fantastic photos/images. Recently my health has gone down the tubes, despite this it’s the camera and photography which has been keeping me going. Life is too short to get involved in those petty disputes on the forum, the ignore feature certainly is useful. I have never written to any of the moderators here to complain about a post. On another forum, I did put in a complaint about an anti-Semitic post and the thread was closed. Mark, take a break and don’t let it get to you. All that happens to the dissenters posts is no big deal. If the threads are not closed and allowed to run/pan out, the offending posts end up being archived or deleted. Its the moderators role to be able to dish it out, when needed. It’s no good banning anyone, as we know they will be back under another disguise ;) A little photography is much more enjoyable and you are rather good at it *chr

MJ224
24th March 2019, 08:33 AM
Thanks Phil.

Maybe its me that should take that break. I am sorry for my outburst, I rose to the bait I guess...………..:(

Anyway the ignore list is working, and I shall go and find that cityscape in the local village..:)

Jax
24th March 2019, 09:02 AM
This is totally amazing. I simply asked the following simple question in a polite manner:


It is now over 24 hours since the most recent thread closure. Shenstone stated this was only a temporary measure to allow Admin time to debate.

Are we, as members, going to be given the courtesy of being informed what decision has been reached or is it a case of No Comment and the thread simply to remain closed ?

Jax


Now over 40 posts later members are still getting hot under the collar, debating the rights and wrongs of political debates with one or two of the most self righteous seemingly approaching melt down.

As stated earlier, calm down, take a deep breath guys, it's an online forum not life and death.

If things continue as they currently are, this thread will join the other closed ones but the problem will remain.


Jax

Phill D
24th March 2019, 09:02 AM
Don't take a break Mark just go and take some photographs as Phil said.
I too have broken my own rule not to get drawn in and posted to a couple of inflammatory threads lately. I don't use the ignore feature on the forum just rely on my inbuilt one which is usually pretty good. I personally would like the lounge to continue and for politics to be debated as and when it was wished. Moderation in my view is really good on this forum and should continue at the level it has been. I feel it should be a condition of forum participation that the moderators actions and their joint moral compass is accepted as final arbiter in disputes. It is in all our interests to make this forum as interesting and useful to everyone, in that way it will flourish. I don't see how having a go at anyone is going to help that. If there are members who just want to get their entertainment from stirring up angst then there are other places they can go. If they don't then maybe even I will start to resort to the ignore function. I certainly don't intend to bale out and I hope others don't either. Just count to 3 (or more if you have to) before posting anything.

Jax
24th March 2019, 09:14 AM
Excellent comment Phill. The only things I would point out is the ignore function is virtually useless as somebody invariably quotes the ignored users comments :)

Additionally as has been said so many times in the past, members are not under any obligation to visit the debates in the Lounge or anywhere else for that matter.


Jax

Jim Ford
24th March 2019, 09:14 AM
Anyway the ignore list is working

Yes, I've got a couple on my 'Ignore List' and as a consequence see very little posting that I'd class as offensive, except where they're quoted.

Jim

MJ224
24th March 2019, 09:34 AM
By the way, how did you get into organising the photo challenges?? a question I forgot to ask you at Westonbirt.

A volunteer...……...*chr

Rocknroll59
24th March 2019, 09:37 AM
The title of the forum gives it away actually ...'The Lounge'...whilst I love a bit of banter etc it is usually face to face and between people I know. The problem with all the arms length stuff is that people then can say what they want without too much recourse... AKA FarceBook, Twitter etc etc, and quite frankly I don't post on Twitter and very very little on FB...the 'Lounge' is what it should be really, I'm not that interested in other peoples opinion on 'Br****t, I have my own and that's where it stays arguing over matters on here is not what i joined for, there has been some calling others various names etc which is not good, yes debate of course and healthy debate, but when it turns unsavory then its time to call a halt.


For those who wish to debate it further i'm happy to meet up anywhere local to me and put my point of view over, but in all honesty there is far too much lately and i'm sick and tired of it. I have better things to do.

Peter *chr

Rebecca
24th March 2019, 10:00 AM
Yes, I've got a couple on my 'Ignore List' and as a consequence see very little posting that I'd class as offensive, except where they're quoted.

Jim

Sunday morning, not going to church so popped in here to have a quick look round and found your post Jim. Did you really say that ? What planet are you on Sweetie ? :confused:

I was only a member for a very short while before being in receipt of your acidic comments. On a scale of 1 to 10 of offensive comments yours would rank 11+. :eek:

Correct me if i'm wrong Jim but is it not your post that kicked all this mess off ?

Just saying......

Anyway, bacon and eggs are calling and the sun is shining so .............................. *chr

Rebecca

Tram
24th March 2019, 10:12 AM
No more posts in this forum after this from me, but please indulge me with this one.

I found a local photography club which stated it welcomed new members.
Went along to the first available night and apart from a couple of people didn't get spoken to. Went the next week and same again, tried to socialise at the half time break alas to no avail.
It became apparent that the current members wanted it exactly as it was with no outside interference. Fine, but given their advancing years it could only end up in eventual extinction.

This forum has the same feel, not particularly with the unfriendly side, but definitely the old guard and their club.
It appears to the outsider that the views expressed are that of the older generation and more modern thinking is to be discouraged.
I am also a member of another camera brand specific forum and the vibe is much more enlightened.

The above is not a criticism, just an observation and this brings to a close my involvement in non photography related discussion.

Graham_of_Rainham
24th March 2019, 10:27 AM
This is totally amazing. I simply asked the following simple question in a polite manner:





Now over 40 posts later members are still getting hot under the collar, debating the rights and wrongs of political debates with one or two of the most self righteous seemingly approaching melt down.

As stated earlier, calm down, take a deep breath guys, it's an online forum not life and death.

If things continue as they currently are, this thread will join the other closed ones but the problem will remain.


Jax

We are still communicating with each other one this, but it’s not done in “real time”...

When something happenes like this we have to read though the many posts and try to make sense of the issue. It takes a lot of time, and re-reading to form my opinions of what has been happening.

This may differ from what the others have “read into” the wording etc..

Please rest assured that I want this Forum to be, as others have said, the friendliest of Photography Forums available on the web. Equally I would not want it to be another “club” style site that has strict rules of etiquette and controls.

*chr

TimP
24th March 2019, 01:41 PM
.......but given their advancing years it could only end up in eventual extinction.


I could be wrong but I don’t think this is the first time you’ve given the impression you have ‘issues’ with ‘people of advancing years’.
Is there an actual age above which you start to become ageist?

If you consider yourself young then perhaps reflect on the fact that you will be old before you know it, it doesn’t creep up on you it rushes at you with increasing speed.

I’m sorry you didn’t manage to break into the clique at the camera club, good for trying though.

Harold Gough
24th March 2019, 02:38 PM
I think we need a league table of naughtiness and our position on it.

That could get very competitive. ;)

Harold

Harold Gough
24th March 2019, 02:40 PM
Fair point Mark, but the question is; should forum discussion topics be dictated my a small minority of members with large chips on their shoulders?

It's not how big it it, it's how you use it! :)

Harold

Harold Gough
24th March 2019, 02:47 PM
I for one would be very happy to see political subjects barred from the forum (not that I am disinterested - I am passionate about politics). Political discussions on the forum create more heat than light and are of no relevance to photography.

Just a thought:

I don't attend a camera club. Is all conversation restricted to photographic matters? If it were what would the atmosphere be like?

Harold

Naughty Nigel
24th March 2019, 04:43 PM
Just a thought:

I don't attend a camera club. Is all conversation restricted to photographic matters? If it were what would the atmosphere be like?

Harold

Pretty boring I should imagine; a bit like a huddle of train spotters at the end of the platform taking down numbers of modern EMU's and DMU's. :(

Oh dear, that's a bit of a giveaway isn't it? :o

Naughty Nigel
24th March 2019, 11:15 PM
This forum has the same feel, not particularly with the unfriendly side, but definitely the old guard and their club.
It appears to the outsider that the views expressed are that of the older generation and more modern thinking is to be discouraged.
I am also a member of another camera brand specific forum and the vibe is much more enlightened.

The above is not a criticism, just an observation and this brings to a close my involvement in non photography related discussion.

I don't think any of us here are against 'modern thinking' per se. I am certainly not.

However, one of the few benefits of age is hindsight and the ability to see where things have gone wrong in the past. Many of us have also seen the younger generation try to reinvent the wheel several times over during our lifetimes. Some of us have even been made redundant my smart new graduates fresh out of business school who were much better at playing with spreadsheets than they were at actually managing a business.

Notwithstanding the above, I think it would be fair to say that the younger generation doesn't have all the answers any more than 'we' did when we were the younger generation; but it is only with the benefit of hindsight that we begin to realise how little we understood at the time and how obvious things would become later. As to whether 'modern thinking has made life better'; I will let others decide.

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 08:58 AM
I see yet another thread has been terminated. What is wrong with this forum? :(

I came here over ten years ago from a forum aimed at 'Amateur Photographers', where the Mods behaved like junkyard Rottweilers and savaged anyone who didn't give reverence to Nikon, and Canon in particular on a daily basis. I cannot remember which company took the outside back cover of the magazine at the time.

Members of the Olympus forum came in for particular ridicule with regular mortar attacks launched from the Canikon fora. I was suspended for daring to suggest (from the sanctuary of the Olympus forum) that the lack of dust control systems in Canikon cameras was a serious oversight, so I sought a better place. Until recently this has been a much better and friendlier place, but of late it seems that even the most benign subjects are at risk of descending into civil unrest.

Are we all becoming a bunch of grumpy old men?

(Apologies to Rebecca who is not a man but is entitled to identify as grumpy if she wishes.) :)

wornish
25th March 2019, 09:07 AM
Maybe we are grumpy because of the depressing weather we have suffered. I have spotted some strange blue stuff in the sky in the last few days and intend to get out from hibernating for the last few months:)

Phill D
25th March 2019, 09:15 AM
I'd say that was a pretty grumpy post Nigel or maybe that was what you intended can't tell from here. Anyway to answer your question I don't think there is anything wrong with the forum that as Dave suggests getting out in the sun wont fix.

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 09:33 AM
Maybe we are grumpy because of the depressing weather we have suffered. I have spotted some strange blue stuff in the sky in the last few days and intend to get out from hibernating for the last few months:)

Me too. I have a nice 'new to me' wide angle lens to play with. Arrived from Japan on Saturday just in time for spring. *yes

https://www.teamworkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/C5990-2-Ed.jpg

MJ224
25th March 2019, 09:48 AM
Are we all becoming a bunch of grumpy old men?


We might be, but we all just need to be nice to each other. 99% comply anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of banter, and humour (ish)*chr

Harold Gough
25th March 2019, 10:53 AM
Me too. I have a nice 'new to me' wide angle lens to play with. Arrived from Japan on Saturday just in time for spring. *yes


50mm wide angle?

Harold

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 11:05 AM
50mm wide angle?

Harold

Yes; the lens is for my RZ67 where a 50 mm optic provides an equivalent focal length of about 23 - 24 millimetres.

The RZ uses bellows focusing rather than a ring on the lens so the elements don't move. This lens has a so-called 'floating' low-dispersion element or group used to obtain maximum sharpness and freedom from aberrations. This is set separately after focusing. The Seiko shutter is built into the lens and allows flash synchronisation at any shutter speed.

The maximum aperture is f4.5 which may seem slow but the camera is usually mounted on a tripod. I any case the depth of field when wide open is very shallow so most of the time you stop down to f11 or above.

Jax
25th March 2019, 11:13 AM
Yes; the lens is for my RZ67 where a 50 mm optic provides an equivalent focal length of about 23 - 24 millimetres.

The RZ uses bellows focusing rather than a ring on the lens so the elements don't move. This lens has a so-called 'floating' low-dispersion element or group used to obtain maximum sharpness and freedom from aberrations. This is set separately after focusing. The Seiko shutter is built into the lens and allows flash synchronisation at any shutter speed.

The maximum aperture is f4.5 which may seem slow but the camera is usually mounted on a tripod. I any case the depth of field when wide open is very shallow so most of the time you stop down to f11 or above.

Just goes to show how much I know ! I had to ask Google what an RZ67 was.

Jax

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 11:17 AM
Just goes to show how much I know ! I had to ask Google what an RZ67 was.

Jax

The RZ is a big, heavy beast, but it is a real joy to use. *yes

The lens weighs about the same as my OM-D E-M1 with 12 ~ 40 zoom attached. :)

Harold Gough
25th March 2019, 11:22 AM
Yes; the lens is for my RZ67 where a 50 mm optic provides an equivalent focal length of about 23 - 24 millimetres.

Oh, one of those "Look, I'm a proper photographer." cameras. :)

Harold

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 12:27 PM
Oh, one of those "Look, I'm a proper photographer." cameras. :)

Harold

Not really. I just enjoy using it a lot more than usual 35 mm style cameras. The waist level finder is much better for composition in my humble opinion.

Taking photographs on medium format cameras is a much slower process but the end result is well worthwhile in my view.

Otto
25th March 2019, 04:41 PM
Yes, medium format demands more thought and consideration. And a tripod and a Sherpa! I had an RB67 for a while, even heavier than the RZ I think. Far to much to go wrong, from forgetting about the dark slide to whether the back was set to portrait or landscape. I did get a few great shots from it but sold it when I decided a Mamiya 6 was more to my taste. And physique :D.

Naughty Nigel
25th March 2019, 11:09 PM
The RZ67, like the Mamiya 645 Pro has plenty of interlocks to stop things from going wrong, so even the most bumbling wedding or school tog should be protected from their ineptitude!

In fact the RZ probably has too many interlocks. There is a red light and a beep to warn that you are doing something wrong, but sometimes it takes a little while to work out exactly what. Brilliant camera though.

Wally
26th March 2019, 10:19 AM
What are peoples thoughts on starting a thread discussing camera's of old, when togging knights were bold? ;)

As a few members seem to dabbling with film etc., and, after reading a few of the above posts would, I think be interesting to both see and hear others views on the elderly / antique camera systems.

Unfortunately, my oldest, and only 35mm film camera still in my possession dates back to the mid 60's, so it would hardly qualify.

Harold Gough
26th March 2019, 10:29 AM
What are peoples thoughts on starting a thread discussing camera's of old, when togging knights were bold? ;)

As a few members seem to dabbling with film etc., and, after reading a few of the above posts would, I think be interesting to both see and hear others views on the elderly / antique camera systems.

Unfortunately, my oldest, and only 35mm film camera still in my possession dates back to the mid 60's, so it would hardly qualify.

Isn't that what Nostalgia Nexus is for?

Harold

Naughty Nigel
26th March 2019, 11:04 AM
Isn't that what Nostalgia Nexus is for?

Harold

It is indeed, and is quite lively on occasions in a gentle sort of way.

I need to scan some more negs to put on there. :)

Why not go and have a look? (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=62)

Wally
26th March 2019, 12:29 PM
:tup @ NN. The post from cariadus puts into perspective as to why a B & W effort can still cut the mustard. That post - which I couldn't find - was another reason why I raised the question in my previous post. It might also be interesting to see what others have by way of vintage cameras. Having had a Steki 111 with various lens and a Minolta miniature like James Bond, once passed on, I realised too late what I had.

Nostalgia Nexus doesn't necessarily mean living in the past, but should the past be forgotten, it would be a loss. At the end of the day, it's not the gear that counts but the minds eye behind the lens.

Naughty Nigel
26th March 2019, 12:38 PM
Nostalgia Nexus doesn't necessarily mean living in the past, but should the past be forgotten, it would be a loss. At the end of the day, it's not the gear that counts but the minds eye behind the lens.

That is all true Wally, but in my experience using a film camera, and especially a medium format film camera, forces the mind and eye to work very differently to when using anything digital.

But there is also an element of nostalgia involved. Going thought the family shoebox of old photographs, as you do, I found some 127 negatives that my late father had exposed back in the 1930's. Somehow the fact that my father had exposed those actual films on his travels and had then developed them himself in the cupboard under the stairs means a lot more to me than finding an SD card with some Jpegs on.

Wally
26th March 2019, 12:49 PM
*yo Seems I'm a bit behind the times??? Have just noticed a forum area called Nostalgia Nexus. :o

:o Apologies also to Harold... had misinterppreted the hint. :o


t-dwn A triple whammy = having a very bad day

:eek: Must also remember to pay a visit to Spekkysaviours. *yes