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Darkroom
16th March 2019, 02:18 PM
It's worthy of note that after many months, this forum and it's siblings under vBulletin are still suffering from the "Gateway Time Out" problem and seems to be the only ones on the net doing so. It really is time something was done to address the problem. If it can't be done "in house" by Admin then surely it's worth employing someone who can sort the problem. :confused:

It's taken over 10 min to submit this post due to waiting for Gateway Time Out to clear.

Darkroom

MJ224
16th March 2019, 02:34 PM
Agree it has been very slow loading on some occasions, not many tho'

Naughty Nigel
16th March 2019, 03:34 PM
I agree. Sometimes I have spent ten minutes or so composing a well-considered epistle only to lose it when I press the submit button and the site times out. Maybe I am on a blacklist somewhere.

The problem with employing an IT expert is cost. There was a request for donations a few months ago which I and many others responded to but the moneys raised can only last so long.

To be honest the forum is becoming so sterile lately that I am rapidly losing interest. I enjoy a good, honest debate and was a keen member of the debating society at school. There was a time when robust debate was allowed here; encouraged even, but of late threads have been closed mid-debate which creates something of an awkward silence.

If members are to be asked to support the forum it is only reasonable that they are allowed to enjoy it and not be overly censored.

Just my humble opinion.

(See how long this thread lasts.) :rolleyes:

Otto
16th March 2019, 03:42 PM
I haven't had a gateway timeout for ages actually. However experience has taught me that when I'm typing a post to do a ctrl^A ctrl^C now and then to copy it to the clipboard so if something crashes I still have the text. I have also noticed on occasion that when I click submit and subsequently get a timeout, the post has actually been submitted. Usually I find this out just after I've resubmitted it and so have to delete the double post!

DerekW
16th March 2019, 04:37 PM
If I want to write an essay in a forum I write it first in a text editor, polish it and then copy and paste into the forum.

However often the urge to say something is lost and you are saved from my comments.

Darkroom
16th March 2019, 06:59 PM
I agree. Sometimes I have spent ten minutes or so composing a well-considered epistle only to lose it when I press the submit button and the site times out. Maybe I am on a blacklist somewhere.

The problem with employing an IT expert is cost. There was a request for donations a few months ago which I and many others responded to but the moneys raised can only last so long.

To be honest the forum is becoming so sterile lately that I am rapidly losing interest. I enjoy a good, honest debate and was a keen member of the debating society at school. There was a time when robust debate was allowed here; encouraged even, but of late threads have been closed mid-debate which creates something of an awkward silence.

If members are to be asked to support the forum it is only reasonable that they are allowed to enjoy it and not be overly censored.

Just my humble opinion.

(See how long this thread lasts.) :rolleyes:

Agreed totally. The silence resulting from the sterility is obvious from the lack of activity within the lounge from all the usual reprobates, myself included. :)

Regarding the cost of paying to sort the gateway problem, reading through the old posts where the donations were being requested I seem to recall it was suggested they would be used to improve this forum but this doesn't seem to be evident yet.

Would the cost of paying for the problem to be sorted really be so great ? I know very little about servers and other IT concerns but as the Gateway problem and slow running seems to effect the 3 fora, and no others, surely it has something to do with the server or vBulletin software. If the latter, do they not have a responsibility to rectify the problem ? This forum has been running so slow today as to be almost unusable with many time outs and lost posts.

The above ongoing problems together with the level of censorship recently applied to genuine discussions and debate makes me wonder if the forum really does have a future worth contributing to. I still have no idea why the last debate was closed despite reading the posts numerous times. I would also point out the debate was actively contributed to several times by members of the Admin team yet suddenly closed without warning on the grounds of "personal comments made about members". What comments and made by whom ? :confused: Maybe somebody complained in private ? I guess we will never know.

Darkroom

Darkroom
16th March 2019, 07:14 PM
If I want to write an essay in a forum I write it first in a text editor, polish it and then copy and paste into the forum.

However often the urge to say something is lost and you are saved from my comments.

The problem is, it matters not how you compose a post if it's subsequently deleted by a Gateway Timeout when you submit it. Ok as you have a copy, you are saved the effort of re-typing it but it's still very annoying and frustrating.

Being saved from comments just goes to prove every cloud can have a silver lining :D

Darkroom

Jim Ford
16th March 2019, 07:16 PM
I had a 'Gateway Problem'earlier today. This is the only site I ever experience it on!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
16th March 2019, 08:46 PM
I had a 'Gateway Problem'earlier today. This is the only site I ever experience it on!

Jim

I rarely seem to get gateway problems as such but all too often the forum will just stop responding when submitting posts which then disappear into cyberspace.

In my own limited experience such problems are usually caused by incorrect gateway or DNS settings which should not take more than a few minutes to correct.

As for censorship; I accept there are limits to what should be tolerated in the way of 'free speech', but locking or deleting threads simply because a member of Admin doesn't like what is being said is a sign of weakness and insecurity; not strength or maturity. The fact that longstanding members such as John Heating Man have had their accounts terminated in recent times only serves to support this view.

I am happy to contribute to forum funds if reasonable free speech is allowed, but I will not make obsequious posts to win favour from anyone. That is not the way that I work.

Jax
16th March 2019, 09:41 PM
I rarely seem to get gateway problems as such but all too often the forum will just stop responding when submitting posts which then disappear into cyberspace.

In my own limited experience such problems are usually caused by incorrect gateway or DNS settings which should not take more than a few minutes to correct.

As for censorship; I accept there are limits to what should be tolerated in the way of 'free speech', but locking or deleting threads simply because a member of Admin doesn't like what is being said is a sign of weakness and insecurity; not strength or maturity. The fact that longstanding members such as John Heating Man have had their accounts terminated in recent times only serves to support this view.

I am happy to contribute to forum funds if reasonable free speech is allowed, but I will not make obsequious posts to win favour from anyone. That is not the way that I work.

In my limited experience, I've found different web browsers report the Gateway problem in different ways. I've had full page reports headed "Gateway Timeout" other reports stating "The Database has experienced a problem" and sometimes as Nigel reported, post simply vanishing when submitted with no report visible. This has been a problem on here since I first joined. As it is only on the 3 sites and as Jim states, nowhere else, it seems to be a problem local to this fora.

Regarding your comments on the censorship applied on here, I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments and applaud the fact you make them. *yes

We recently had a case of a sexist, mysogynistic comment made by a member of the Admin Team and I acknowledge the person involved apologised for it but nothing was said and no censure applied by any other members of the Admin Team. Had the same comment been made by myself or other members and complained about, I can't help feeling the response may have been different.

Today, censorship has again been applied by Admin in the For Sale section of the forum. It really is beginning to feel more like a junior school than a forum comprised of very mature adult members.

On the other hand, in all these recent instances of censorship it is conceivable they could be the result of a member complaining via PM to the Admin Team. If that is actually the case, it would be far more open, understandable and reasonable if that fact was stated openly, even if the complainants identity was not disclosed. At least we would know it was not simply the single view and opinion of one Administrator.

I for one really enjoyed reading and sometimes contributing to the debates on here, heated or otherwise but recent instances of censure have poured cold water on that enjoyment. I agree with Nigel's comment about the forum becoming sterile and this can't possibly improve the chances of attracting new members.


Jax

pdk42
16th March 2019, 11:09 PM
To be honest the forum is becoming so sterile lately that I am rapidly losing interest. I enjoy a good, honest debate and was a keen member of the debating society at school. There was a time when robust debate was allowed here; encouraged even, but of late threads have been closed mid-debate which creates something of an awkward silence.

If members are to be asked to support the forum it is only reasonable that they are allowed to enjoy it and not be overly censored.

Just my humble opinion.

(See how long this thread lasts.) :rolleyes:

Nigel - I always appreciate your contributions since they are thoughtful and well presented. I've found myself modifying my view on more than one occasion as a result of a post from you. However, what I will say is that ever since the Brexit thread, the tone of discussions here is too often turning nasty and personal. It's a real pity since we used to collectively be (a) more focused on photography, and (b) much more considerate and polite to each other!

In the wake of this it's certainly true that there has been more intervention from the mods of late; but I can't think of any occasion where anyone's views have been censored (in the sense of their opinions being removed or suppressed). Some may have been censured for things said, but I think in the main when that's happened it's been proportionate and handled delicately. We have all been guilty I'm sure of writing things in haste and pressing the submit button without the necessary thought, so I'm not trying to be preachy here - just trying to highlight a trend as I see it.

Does this make the forum sterile? I personally don't think so. There's no reason why we can't discuss things without getting personal or aggressive.

I also think, especially in light of the Brexit thread, that a "no politics" policy should be introduced. It's completely reasonable of course to have places to discuss politics, but I think that a photo forum is not the place for that since it colours members' views of each other and leads to division and hardened positions that then spill over into the photography topics.

pdk42
16th March 2019, 11:10 PM
As to the technical problems - I think it would be worth Ian making some comments as to the situation. I have to say that I've not personally had excessive levels of problems - but maybe I've just been lucky.

Naughty Nigel
16th March 2019, 11:17 PM
Well, it seems we are discussing the weather now. I have no objection to this in principle but do I believe it is indicative of the sterile and benign place that this forum has become of late.

However, I am more concerned that censure is not applied even headedly as there is clear political bias in these decisions. It seems to be acceptable to make racist, sexist and ageist remarks against older white, male Brexiteers for example, but mention 'snowflakes' and the thread is locked.

Naughty Nigel
16th March 2019, 11:26 PM
Nigel - I always appreciate your contributions since they are thoughtful and well presented. I've found myself modifying my view on more than one occasion as a result of a post from you. However, what I will say is that ever since the Brexit thread, the tone of discussions here is too often turning nasty and personal. It's a real pity since we used to collectively be (a) more focused on photography, and (b) much more considerate and polite to each other!

In the wake of this it's certainly true that there has been more intervention from the mods of late; but I can't think of any occasion where anyone's views have been censored (in the sense of their opinions being removed or suppressed). Some may have been censured for things said, but I think in the main when that's happened it's been proportionate and handled delicately. We have all been guilty I'm sure of writing things in haste and pressing the submit button without the necessary thought, so I'm not trying to be preachy here - just trying to highlight a trend as I see it.

Does this make the forum sterile? I personally don't think so. There's no reason why we can't discuss things without getting personal or aggressive.

I also think, especially in light of the Brexit thread, that a "no politics" policy should be introduced. It's completely reasonable of course to have places to discuss politics, but I think that a photo forum is not the place for that since it colours members' views of each other and leads to division and hardened positions that then spill over into the photography topics.

Sorry I missed your post Paul and thank you for your kind comments.

I agree with much of what you say but I do feel that censorship has become too heavy-handed of late, and is not even handed.

I also feel it is a sad day if we cannot discus politics from time to time. Politics affects every one of us in some way and is often not well understood. Indeed I strongly believe that politics and political principles should be discussed more, and not less. The way the country is going at the moment I fear there is a very real risk that large numbers of people will never darken the doors of a polling station again; and I say that as a Remainer.

pdk42
16th March 2019, 11:28 PM
However, I am more concerned that censure is not applied even headedly as there is clear political bias in these decisions. It seems to be acceptable to make racist, sexist and ageist remarks against older white, male Brexiteers for example, but mention 'snowflakes' and the thread is locked.

What evidence do you have for that?

peak4
17th March 2019, 12:16 AM
How on earth did a thread on Gateway Time-out problems become diverted into one complaining about censorship??

I really would urge folks to think carefully before they criticise others, including the site's admin assistants, who are all unpaid volunteers; hopefully trying to keep the place family friendly, whilst still available for off-topic discussion, and free of conflict by encouraging respectful behaviour between contributors.

To keep on-topic for the title of this thread, I don't think I've never experienced any time-out errors at all, even on the Brexit thread, where some of my contributions took well over an hour to compose and review.

For what it's worth, I'm connected via Plusnet, Win10, normally using Opera as a web browser.
The one thing I do have to be careful about is, since I have Mouse Gestures enabled in Opera, it's easy to accidentally go back a page, thus removing my partly completed post. As mentioned above [Control] A - [Control] C helps me regain my composure.

Regarding DNS, I've moved away from the default DNS and use 9.9.9.9 as per Quad9 (https://www.quad9.net/)

Rocknroll59
17th March 2019, 07:43 AM
I've never had a problem but others have, maybe my fingers move a bit faster :D, but i don't have the problems mentioned here.

As to the points about censorship etc, I must agree with Paul here, we all have our own opinions on things be it political or other wise and if it turns into spiteful comments then that's the time to draw a line under it. I haven't missed the 'Brexit' debate at all now as it was becoming a you against me situation and a bit boring TBH, not really why I joined a photography site at all, there are plenty of other places where it can be discussed and argued over.

I like to think that the members on here can retain their sense of humour and knowledge of photography that has prevailed ever since I joined and perhaps leave the heated stuff for other sites.

Peter

Zuiko
17th March 2019, 08:30 AM
I think this Gateway Timeout problem needs flagging to Ian, so I'll do just that.

Ian
17th March 2019, 08:51 AM
First of all, the site loads normally most of the time, but I have noticed an increasing number of short outages in the logs and occasionally, when I am on the site - I will seek some advice on this from our hosting company. Thank you for your patience.

Regarding the moderating of the site and in reference to the threads about politics -our decisions are nothing to do with any bias - we simply react when personal abuse and disrespect get out of hand - regardless of the political 'side'.

Ian

Jax
17th March 2019, 02:28 PM
First of all, the site loads normally most of the time, but I have noticed an increasing number of short outages in the logs and occasionally, when I am on the site - I will seek some advice on this from our hosting company. Thank you for your patience.

Regarding the moderating of the site and in reference to the threads about politics -our decisions are nothing to do with any bias - we simply react when personal abuse and disrespect get out of hand - regardless of the political 'side'.

Ian

As previously stated, yesterday this site and the other 2 sites were very badly affected. It's not just when initially loading the site the Timeout occurs, it can be at any point a page refresh or page change is required. In addition, pages were taking between 20 - 30 secs to load on every occasion. This happened till around 10 pm when it suddenly cleared.

Today all is well again with pages loading in less than a second and no Timeout notices.

This was experienced yesterday despite using several different browsers ( Opera, Firefox, MS Edge, Internet Explorer. All cookies and history cleared several times and re-boots performed, all to no avail. Every other site visited worked perfectly with no problems or delay in page changes. Opera, my browser of choice, does have some glitches and weird responses on occasion which is what prompted me to attempt to isolate the problem using other browsers and cookie clearances.

The problem is not a constant one, more intermittent. It has however been occurring on these 3 fora since I joined 6 months ago. Whilst some have never experienced the problems others have, so it is not limited to local setup or usages.

I have no idea if this problem has previously been officially flagged to Ian but I do know several posts have highlighted it over the past months and maybe not picked up by Admin. It's not extremely important or life changing but certainly a very frustrating occurrence when it does happen.

Jax

Gate Keeper
17th March 2019, 03:21 PM
I count my blessings really, as I have not encountered any Gateway problems. Hopefully these issues can be sorted out. In regard to censorship or political discussions, is there any mileage in raising these things in a separate thread?


In my UK car club forum, politics is banned. People's feelings got hurt from nasty acidic personal comments, some members actually left because of it. Since then, the Political Diehards in the club try to resurrect Brexit and each time they do, the discussion is immediately closed. The forum remains successful with new members joining every day. Because we can't discuss politics, this has not put a downer on the forum. I have said my piece, for it is worth ;)

Ian
17th March 2019, 04:01 PM
Our hosting company has been looking into this since the morning but I haven't yet had any feedback. I'll chase them up.

Ian

Naughty Nigel
17th March 2019, 05:00 PM
How on earth did a thread on Gateway Time-out problems become diverted into one complaining about censorship??

.... Because maintaining the site and paying an IT specialist costs money. You may recall an appeal a few months ago for financial contributions which many of us responded to?

That changes things in my view because with payment, even if only a voluntary donation, there comes a reasonable expectation of having some say in what we can and cannot discuss. I believe there is also a reasonable expectation that having made a financial contribution, and having that contribution accepted, that one is not then expelled for making the wrong arguments as has happened in recent times.

As I said yesterday I feel that the Lounge in particular is becoming rather sterile owing to censorship and the fear of saying the wrong thing.


What evidence do you have for that?

Just read the "Millenial Snowflake Burnout" thread. (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50021)

At #3 we had a reference to 'Gammons' courtesy of Tram. To quote:

No worse than outraged Gammons and the entitled "paid in all my life" old flag wavers.

This term is widely considered racist, sexist and ageist yet there was no censure whatsoever; presumably because 'Gammons' also tend to support Brexit which is a dirty word around here.

However, at the end of the thread (#91) we are told that the thread has been locked owing to 'personal comments'. This was immediately followed by a post from Ian making it clear that he dislikes the term 'Snowflake'. To quote:

Plenty of us have children who would be very unhappy at being classified as 'snowflakes'. I, personally, find the term disrespectful at the very least as it is a generalised term that makes no distinctions.

I also have children (aged 20 and 25). They are not 'snowflakes' by an interpretation of the word, but they despair about those who are and who increasingly prevent them from enjoying a normal healthy life owing to the adjustments needed to placate them.

But surely, the fact that Ian himself says the word 'snowflakes' "is a generalised term that makes no distinctions" makes it less offensive than terms which are clearly racist, sexist and ageist and aimed at those with certain voting habits?

Jim Ford
17th March 2019, 06:01 PM
People can call me what they like, as long as it's not too late for breakfast!

Jim

shenstone
17th March 2019, 06:03 PM
I dislike responding publicly to such outbursts as the last but one, but i feel that I have to provide some facts

The moderators are 3/4 volunteers i.e. 3 of the 4 of us are such and we do so out of the want to see this forum successful and a happy and safe place to visit

It was me who closed the thread on snowflakes and it was purely because of the pointed comments directed specifically at other members which were aggressive in nature and out of line with the stated rule for this forum "Just keep it clean and polite!".

I can also tell you that during the "interesting" times (my quotes) that we had multiple postings referred to moderators each day by people on both sides of the arguments requesting that others were censured which was hardly ever done and never without discussion. It was both exhausting trying to keep up and stressful reading the comments that some members were making about others when they PM'd or reported posts. All the moderators have tried to be scrupulously fair in determining when to close something and it sometimes takes a lot of discussion before such is done, and that asking someone to leave is only after an awful lot of effort to bring things to a happier resolution.

In terms of that specific thread, I had not seen the term "gammon's", neither did I understand it as I had never come across it used in that way, neither had I considered Ian's point about the term snowflakes which I now consider valid.

Yes a number of us have contributed to the continuance of this forum, but I do not think that gives any of us carte blanche to be driving other people away from the forum as had definitely happened given some of the private messages sent to the moderators as people leave (none since the calm down some time ago). We want to attract a wide audience of people interested in photography and have them stay and support this forum.


I come here for the pictures!
I come here for the technical help!
I come here for the photography ideas!


Regards
Andy

Jim Ford
17th March 2019, 06:31 PM
Gosh, I never thought that there's been a lot of griping and 'tale telling' PM's to moderators going on behind the scenes!

I've been outspoken and invited brickbats in the past, but it's never occurred to me to complain about it. When I can't stand the heat, I'll get out of the kitchen!

Jim

pdk42
17th March 2019, 08:23 PM
I dislike responding publicly to such outbursts as the last but one, but i feel that I have to provide some facts

The moderators are 3/4 volunteers i.e. 3 of the 4 of us are such and we do so out of the want to see this forum successful and a happy and safe place to visit

It was me who closed the thread on snowflakes and it was purely because of the pointed comments directed specifically at other members which were aggressive in nature and out of line with the stated rule for this forum "Just keep it clean and polite!".

I can also tell you that during the "interesting" times (my quotes) that we had multiple postings referred to moderators each day by people on both sides of the arguments requesting that others were censured which was hardly ever done and never without discussion. It was both exhausting trying to keep up and stressful reading the comments that some members were making about others when they PM'd or reported posts. All the moderators have tried to be scrupulously fair in determining when to close something and it sometimes takes a lot of discussion before such is done, and that asking someone to leave is only after an awful lot of effort to bring things to a happier resolution.

In terms of that specific thread, I had not seen the term "gammon's", neither did I understand it as I had never come across it used in that way, neither had I considered Ian's point about the term snowflakes which I now consider valid.

Yes a number of us have contributed to the continuance of this forum, but I do not think that gives any of us carte blanche to be driving other people away from the forum as had definitely happened given some of the private messages sent to the moderators as people leave (none since the calm down some time ago). We want to attract a wide audience of people interested in photography and have them stay and support this forum.


I come here for the pictures!
I come here for the technical help!
I come here for the photography ideas!


Regards
Andy

Andy - I'm sure that you and the other mods do the best job you can and I for one have no issue with your interventions. Thanks for you ongoing commitment to the forum.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I really think that a policy of no politics would make life a lot easier for us all. Maybe some will think that makes things a bit anodyne, but I'd rather we coalesce on what brings us to this forum (photography) than find division in the wider political scene. I'm not averse to robust debate, but I think if robust debate is what people want then it's best done elsewhere.

Jax
17th March 2019, 08:46 PM
I feel obliged to state I fully support every word of Nigel's latest post and opinions. He always makes a perfectly reasoned, polite argument or explanation of any topic raised on here, in a well thought out, considerate, coherent manner and without bias. I only wish I had his expertise and skills but sadly I'm more aligned to the "Call A Spade A Shovel" brigade. Hence, my time on here as a member is no doubt limited.

Shenstone's post in response is quite an eye opener for me. I've always noticed only certain members ever get involved or make comments in the Lounge especially when there is a cut and thrust debate taking place. In my post yesterday I suggested the recent censorship could be the result of complaints from members and it now seems I was correct in that assumption. What has amazed me is the level of the complaints made in PM's and behind other members backs indicated by Shenstone in his post.

Nobody is forced to read any comments or posts made in the Lounge or anywhere else for that matter within this forum. It seems however that members can't resist reading and then having done so, feel a moral obligation to complain in private to Admin. I wont put my membership at risk at this point by stating my opinion about said members.

Given the recent censorship, Shentone's revealing post, and the constant cries that this is a photo forum, IMHO the best way forward now is to close the Lounge and remove it from the forum. I also suggest that Admin need to be more observant when logging on and nip any developing problems in the bud before they mutate into something worse. By this I don't mean closing threads but censuring the individuals concerned in what ever manner deemed appropriate. It seems very unfair to censure all involved within any debate photographic or otherwise, by closure, rather than the persons actually committing the offence. Kind of reminds me of my school days when the whole class was placed on detention because Little Johnny thwacked the teacher with an elastic band. *yes

By closing the Lounge, the forum would then be restricted to posts of a photographic nature only. This will solve the current problem and no doubt make many members, including those who feel obliged to complain in private and or place "likes" on every cry about this being a photo forum, very happy people indeed. Sparks will still no doubt erupt occasionally, as they did in the For Sale section but hopefully not to the same extent.

This is only my honest opinion with no critisism of Admin intended as that would definitely not be tolerated. Admin, feel free to remove this post if it's felt my comments are inappropriate.


Jax.

Ian
17th March 2019, 08:49 PM
According to the hosting technicians, the server was using much more memory than it needed and was occasionally running out. This is not unusual and so there are measures to deal with such situations and these have now been enabled.

I hope there will be some improvement in reliability as a result.

If you notice the same problems happening again, please (once the problem has gone) let me know via PM so I can build a picture of what is happenning so I can relay it back to the techs.

Thanks,

Ian

Jax
17th March 2019, 08:59 PM
According to the hosting technicians, the server was using much more memory than it needed and was occasionally running out. This is not unusual and so there are measures to deal with such situations and these have now been enabled.

I hope there will be some improvement in reliability as a result.

If you notice the same problems happening again, please (once the problem has gone) let me know via PM so I can build a picture of what is happenning so I can relay it back to the techs.

Thanks,

Ian

That is good news Ian and much appreciated. My experience of the forum today is that it has been running like a swiss watch with no page lags or timeouts.

Jax

Ian
17th March 2019, 09:02 PM
Some of the language being quoted here as being racist or otherwise offensive is right over my head, sorry. For example, I have never heard of the term 'gammons' before. I have just looked it up and there seems to be some debate as to whether it's racist or not.

The context and the implications are probably more important.

Myself and the moderators can't read and vet every single word that gets input into the forum. We rely on the reporting of posts. If anyone, no matter of which side of a debate or argument, feels someone has acted in an a maliciously insulting or otherwise disrespectful way, then we will do our best, without 'bias' to sort it out.

Sometimes, though, the disrespect is very obvious. I did find the reference to 'snowflakes' insulting, personally (which I emphasised at the time), but there was more than the patronising 'snowflake' jibe in that thread and that is why I wholeheartedly supported the decision to deal with it.

As I believe we have explained before, this online community is focused on Olympus and related photography. We don't need an off-topic area. If anyone feels they are dependent on it to the point that it might dictate whether or not they continue to enjoy the e-group, then I respectfully suggest that there are other sites that might be better suited for this type of discussion.

I can see that the off topic board's presence could DEVALUE the core ideals of the site. But... its absence would not.

I don't want to get rid of it, but it will be closed if continued dissatisfaction about its content persists.

Ian

Naughty Nigel
17th March 2019, 10:15 PM
Gosh, I never thought that there's been a lot of griping and 'tale telling' PM's to moderators going on behind the scenes!

I've been outspoken and invited brickbats in the past, but it's never occurred to me to complain about it. When I can't stand the heat, I'll get out of the kitchen!

Jim

Me neither Jim. If large numbers of people feel the need to contact Admin by PM I would suggest that either something is seriously wrong, or that they have a problem.

I think I have reported two posts in my time here, both of which were clearly out of order (trolling or seriously offensive), and which were swiftly removed.

You and I have disagreed many times on political matters, but I would hope that we are able to remain objective on technical and photographic matters?

Unfortunately there is a general problem in our society that far to many people are unable to disagree with each other without falling out, and I daresay this forum is no different.

I have no wish to see anyone leave because they feel unwelcome, and I certainly hope that nobody has ever left because of anything I have posted; but my point remains: if the forum is reliant on donations requested from members then I believe it is only reasonable that the membership as a whole (not just those who have contributed) should be afforded some freedom of speech.

Naughty Nigel
17th March 2019, 11:49 PM
I can see that the off topic board's presence could DEVALUE the core ideals of the site. But... its absence would not.

I don't want to get rid of it, but it will be closed if continued dissatisfaction about its content persists.

Ian

If the forum is reliant on voluntary contributions surely it is not unreasonable that contributors should be able to discuss what they value and enjoy, or is that discussion to be suppressed as well?

TimP
18th March 2019, 07:02 AM
Gosh, I never thought that there's been a lot of griping and 'tale telling' PM's to moderators going on behind the scenes!

I've been outspoken and invited brickbats in the past, but it's never occurred to me to complain about it. When I can't stand the heat, I'll get out of the kitchen!

Jim

Exactly! Have there really been members complaining privately to the mods? Really? Pathetic.
Maybe this snowflake thing isnít just for the very young after all.
I must try it sometime.

Ian
18th March 2019, 07:49 AM
If the forum is reliant on voluntary contributions surely it is not unreasonable that contributors should be able to discuss what they value and enjoy, or is that discussion to be suppressed as well?

If you feel that the voluntary contributions (which are most welcome of course and it continues to astound me how generous members can be) guarantee a right for rude and unpleasant behaviour on the forum, then you are mistaken.

That is the entire focus of the moderation - not for political bias but to keep the peace no matter where the intrusion comes from.

While the contributions are, as I said, amazing - they only cover a fraction of the basic costs of running this site.

And I remind you once again, this is a photography forum, not a political or social debate forum.

Ian

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 08:22 AM
I am a member here,

http://forum.mflenses.com/

where this is offered:

"Dive bar

Use this forum to discuss politics, religion, or anything else you think may be disturbing to other members' sensitivity. If you want to participate, ask for entry from administrators".

I have not taken it up.

Harold

TimP
18th March 2019, 08:33 AM
I am a member here,

http://forum.mflenses.com/

where this is offered:

"Dive bar

Use this forum to discuss politics, religion, or anything else you think may be disturbing to other members' sensitivity. If you want to participate, ask for entry from administrators".

I have not taken it up.

Harold

I was going to suggest something along those lines, surely as weíre (nearly) all adults we could make something like this work? The popularity of the lounge must indicate a desire for it to continue but also comments on this thread shows that censorship doesnít go down so well either.

RobEW
18th March 2019, 10:00 AM
Nigel .... topics.

The voice of reason and common sense as usual.

RobEW
18th March 2019, 10:04 AM
Personally I think there are plenty of places online to air and argue views on political matters. I sometimes have that sort of discussion on FaceBook. I value this as a place for discussing photography (and specifically Olympus) matters, without the clutter, distraction or pollution of other more confrontational stuff.

TimP
18th March 2019, 10:19 AM
Personally I think there are plenty of places online to air and argue views on political matters. I sometimes have that sort of discussion on FaceBook. I value this as a place for discussing photography (and specifically Olympus) matters, without the clutter, distraction or pollution of other more confrontational stuff.

Surely the point is that the lounge is for all the non-photo stuff. You donít have to visit that lounge and itís presence shouldnít detract from the quality photo chat either. It puts those people into one place, people who probably only have Olympus in common but whose views and comments can be enjoyed on other matters too.

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 10:21 AM
I was going to suggest something along those lines, surely as weíre (nearly) all adults we could make something like this work? The popularity of the lounge must indicate a desire for it to continue but also comments on this thread shows that censorship doesnít go down so well either.

Yes, the Lounge is a very popular board and censorship is rarely welcome in society. However, I feel Shenstone's post has finally exposed the true, previously hidden problem, behind any lively debates on this forum.

It seems we have a number of self righteous members with such delicate sensitivities and lack of confidence that instead of complaining about something themselves by posting in the open forum, they feel it more appropriate to go behind fellow member's backs and complain about the debate via PM to the Admin team.

This being the case as Shenstone's post now confirms, there is no future for any genuine lively debates in the Lounge. Therefore, IMHO, as previously suggested and threatened, it may as well be closed permanently.

Darkroom

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 10:30 AM
I value this as a place for discussing photography (and specifically Olympus) matters, without the clutter, distraction or pollution of other more confrontational stuff.

Why do you allow it to distract you from photography, seeing that it is in a separate place?

It has nothing to do with my photography or anything else in my life.

Harold

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 10:33 AM
This being the case as Shenstone's post now confirms, there is no future for any genuine lively debates in the Lounge. Therefore, IMHO, as previously suggested and threatened, it may as well be closed permanently.

I don't see that that follows. It isn't as if the majority of threads are political.

Harold

Ian
18th March 2019, 10:42 AM
I don't see that that follows. It isn't as if the majority of threads are political.

Harold

Harold is right and might I add, I have no problems with political or any other discussions as long as they are polite and respectful. It seems the definition of what is polite and respectful might be the problem here.

Anyway, I'm now off to the Olympus stand...

Ian

RobEW
18th March 2019, 10:45 AM
Why do you allow it to distract you from photography, seeing that it is in a separate place?

It has nothing to do with my photography or anything else in my life.

Harold

Depends what "views" you use to navigate the forum.

Quite often I look at the "recent posts" view. That shows up off topic as well as on topic stuff . Sometimes I look at an individual's posting history (cunningly hidden under their "statistics") and again that view dilutes the on topic stuff with off topic stuff.

If you navigate purely based on the forum structure then the lounge is easily ignored, I agree.

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 10:59 AM
I don't see that that follows. It isn't as if the majority of threads are political.

Harold

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50077&page=2

No mention of politics here but extreme censorship applied by closing the thread. One post selected by Admin to admonish despite others just as bad. Did somebody complain via PM ?

Darkroom

TimP
18th March 2019, 11:08 AM
http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50077&page=2

No mention of politics here but extreme censorship applied by closing the thread. One post selected by Admin to admonish despite others just as bad. Did somebody complain via PM ?

Darkroom

Phew! Not a thread I was involved in. I live to post another day!

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 11:12 AM
Phew! Not a thread I was involved in. I live to post another day!

It's only 11.10am , the day is not over yet Tim :D

Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 11:37 AM
http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50077&page=2

No mention of politics here but extreme censorship applied by closing the thread. One post selected by Admin to admonish despite others just as bad. Did somebody complain via PM ?

Darkroom

Nothing to do with me either for once, but there do seem to be some common denominators. ;)

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 11:51 AM
It's only 11.10am , the day is not over yet Tim :D



Chronologist! *nono

Harold

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 11:59 AM
there do seem to be some common denominators. ;)

Indeed there are ! Another deja vu experience :)

Darkroom

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 12:15 PM
Another deja vu experience :)

deja vu isn't what it used to be. :)

Harold

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 12:15 PM
Chronologist! *nono

Harold

My clock is still ticking Harold despite the case looking shabby now, the mainspring becoming weak and the pendulum just a shadow of it's former efficiency :D

Darkroom

TimP
18th March 2019, 12:20 PM
It's only 11.10am , the day is not over yet Tim :D

Darkroom

Once you get to my age, any part of a day is a bonus!

TimP
18th March 2019, 12:21 PM
deja vu isn't what it used to be. :)


I know, I seem to get it again and again....

TimP
18th March 2019, 12:22 PM
My clock is still ticking Harold despite the case looking shabby now, the mainspring becoming weak and the pendulum just a shadow of it's former efficiency :D

Darkroom

Just as long as you can keep Ďwindingí it, you should be fine.

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 12:33 PM
http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50077&page=2

No mention of politics here but extreme censorship applied by closing the thread. One post selected by Admin to admonish despite others just as bad. Did somebody complain via PM ?

Darkroom

That thread started out as a "For Sale" thread and, quite rightly, a member used the Report button to flag up to Admin that there was a problem with the description of the item for sale. The wording was amended with the cooperation of the vendor, which seemed to satisfy the complainant and several others who had commented and I assumed that would be the end of the matter. But no, the comments continued and some started to be personal and disrespectful to other members, such as this:-

"As usual you seemed to miss the point entirely but it matters not. At least it's given you the opportunity to make a post. As long as you are happy with your lens which wasn't purchased from a forum member and therefore the purchase is totally irrelevant to the current point in question, thats fine Otto. I'm very pleased for you and wish you many happy hours using the lens"

By this stage the thread was getting off topic in any case and my judgment was to close it before it descended into the type of free for all we are nowadays accustomed to seeing in the Lounge.

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 12:38 PM
My clock is still ticking Harold despite the case looking shabby now, the mainspring becoming weak and the pendulum just a shadow of it's former efficiency :D

As we slow down it's because our pendulums have lengthened. :)

Harold

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 01:02 PM
That thread started out as a "For Sale" thread and, quite rightly, a member used the Report button to flag up to Admin that there was a problem with the description of the item for sale. The wording was amended with the cooperation of the vendor, which seemed to satisfy the complainant and several others who had commented and I assumed that would be the end of the matter. But no, the comments continued and some started to be personal and disrespectful to other members, such as this:-

"As usual you seemed to miss the point entirely but it matters not. At least it's given you the opportunity to make a post. As long as you are happy with your lens which wasn't purchased from a forum member and therefore the purchase is totally irrelevant to the current point in question, thats fine Otto. I'm very pleased for you and wish you many happy hours using the lens"

By this stage the thread was getting off topic in any case and my judgment was to close it before it descended into the type of free for all we are nowadays accustomed to seeing in the Lounge.

I would suggest the comment quoted (mine), was not so much personal and disrespectful but made with sarcasm and a hint of tongue in cheek and in response to the comment "This seems to me like a lot of quibbling for no good reason."

If the other person concerned or someone else complained about my comment in PM, thats fine and I accept your criticism and admonishment of my post. If not, IMHO it was a case of heavy handed needless moderation and censorship. Closing the thread was also IMHO not necessary but as a member of the Admin Team it is of course your decision and perogative to do so.

Darkroom

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 01:04 PM
As we slow down it's because our pendulums have lengthened. :)

Harold

Ha! I should be soooo lucky ! :D

Darkroom

Otto
18th March 2019, 01:23 PM
If the other person concerned or someone else complained about my comment in PM, thats fine and I accept your criticism and admonishment of my post. If not, IMHO it was a case of heavy handed needless moderation and censorship.


Since you're wondering, I did not make any complaint.

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 01:28 PM
Since you're wondering, I did not make any complaint.

I was sure you hadn't Otto but had to state it as a possibility :) You're actually quite a nice guy really and perfectly able to fight your own battles. *chr

Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 01:29 PM
As we slow down it's because our pendulums have lengthened. :)

Harold

There are pills to help with that, so I'm told. :D

RobEW
18th March 2019, 01:30 PM
(1) If there's one thing likely to lose moderators from forums, it's people constantly quibbling about their decisions. (Even greater risk on this forum which seems to be vastly subsidised of losing the whole thing)

(2) Paying a voluntary donation doesn't give anyone the right to dictate or modify the rules or to change the nature of the place. If someone joined our croquet club, gave us a sub and then said they wanted to also use our courts for football, we'd advise them to join a football club. this thread would be better sticking to issues about gateway problems rather than deviating into freedom of speech digressions.

(3) It's difficult for anyone (including moderators) to discern "tone of voice" in a textual medium with absolute certainty, so it's wise to try not to write in a way which could be (mis)construed as unnecessarily combative.

(4) I'm pleased to say that I've not had any problems with Gateway type messages.

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 01:38 PM
I wonder; is there any way of showing some kind of 'traffic light' status on a thread?

An amber light or 'Yellow Card' means everyone is on warning that the thread will be locked. That would at least reduce the bad feeling caused when the 'Red Card' is shown without warning.

Better still, a bathtub icon would warn of an early bath! *yes

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 01:49 PM
Better still, a bathtub icon would warn of an early bath! *yes

Nigel ! Are you suggesting I need a bath ? If so, I find the suggestion very personal, insulting and confrontational and hope the Moderators take suitable action immediately ! 20 lashes with a wet Canikon camera strap seems appropriate.


Hang on....................... you may enjoy that too much :D:D:D

Darkroom

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 01:55 PM
I wonder; is there any way of showing some kind of 'traffic light' status on a thread?

An amber light or 'Yellow Card' means everyone is on warning that the thread will be locked. That would at least reduce the bad feeling caused when the 'Red Card' is shown without warning.

Better still, a bathtub icon would warn of an early bath! *yes

That's an interesting notion; I'm not sure whether it is possible. Problems I can anticipate are a rush of comments not tempered by restraint, designed to have the last word as the thread is closing anyway, and complaints that the moderators have yellow carded the thread too early or not given enough notice!

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 01:59 PM
That's an interesting notion; I'm not sure whether it is possible. Problems I can anticipate are a rush of comments not tempered by restraint, designed to have the last word as the thread is closing anyway, and complaints that the moderators have yellow carded the thread too early or not given enough notice!

I should have said that "An amber light or 'Yellow Card' means everyone is on warning that the thread will be locked if unruly behaviour continues".

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 01:59 PM
Nigel ! Are you suggesting I need a bath ? If so, I find the suggestion very personal, insulting and confrontational and hope the Moderators take suitable action immediately ! 20 lashes with a wet Canikon camera strap seems appropriate.


Hang on....................... you may enjoy that too much :D:D:D

Darkroom

Oh yes please! Can it be a leather strap though? :D :D :D

TimP
18th March 2019, 02:05 PM
Oh yes please! Can it be a leather strap though? :D :D :D

Fussy sod!

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 02:10 PM
I would suggest the comment quoted (mine), was not so much personal and disrespectful but made with sarcasm and a hint of tongue in cheek and in response to the comment "This seems to me like a lot of quibbling for no good reason."

If the other person concerned or someone else complained about my comment in PM, thats fine and I accept your criticism and admonishment of my post. If not, IMHO it was a case of heavy handed needless moderation and censorship. Closing the thread was also IMHO not necessary but as a member of the Admin Team it is of course your decision and perogative to do so.

Darkroom

I can confirm that no complaint was received but in my judgement the post was unacceptable. Of course, I could have simply deleted your post and let the thread continue, but also in my judgement the thread was dragging out a situation that had already been resolved and was drifting off topic. You may not like my judgement but as you say, it is my prerogative.

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 02:20 PM
I should have said that "An amber light or 'Yellow Card' means everyone is on warning that the thread will be locked if unruly behaviour continues".

And I should have said, "as the thread is in danger of closing anyway." :)

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 02:36 PM
In my judgement the thread was dragging out a situation that had already been resolved and was drifting off topic.

Does any thread in the Lounge ever stay on topic ? So far this thread began with Gateway problems then forum donations, censorship, politics, gammon, moderators, for sale thread, clocks, Nigel being lashed, Nigel enjoying being lashed, traffic lights, yellow cards etc etc etc :D

Time to get your coats on folks........ :)


Darkroom

Gate Keeper
18th March 2019, 02:46 PM
Does any thread in the Lounge ever stay on topic ? So far this thread began with Gateway problems then forum donations, censorship, politics, gammon, moderators, for sale thread, clocks, Nigel being lashed, Nigel enjoying being lashed, traffic lights, yellow cards etc etc etc :D

Time to get your coats on folks........ :)


Darkroom

Are you leaving the darkroom?

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 02:47 PM
Does any thread in the Lounge ever stay on topic ? So far this thread began with Gateway problems then forum donations, censorship, politics, gammon, moderators, for sale thread, clocks, Nigel being lashed, Nigel enjoying being lashed, traffic lights, yellow cards etc etc etc :D

Time to get your coats on folks........ :)


Darkroom

That is the nature of threads in the Lounge and to a certain extent we have to expect it, but the thread that you and I are discussing is in the For Sale section.

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 02:52 PM
That is the nature of threads in the Lounge and to a certain extent we have to expect it, but the thread that you and I are discussing is in the For Sale section.

Damn! You're right ! :D

I blame the pendulum !


Darkroom

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 03:09 PM
Are you leaving the darkroom?

No Phil, I prefer being in the dark but there is always a chance I may turn up on here one day and find the door locked :D

Darkroom

Gate Keeper
18th March 2019, 03:18 PM
No Phil, I prefer being in the dark but there is always a chance I may turn up on here one day and find the door locked :D

Darkroom

I am glad to hear you are sticking around, be lucky! :)

TimP
18th March 2019, 03:47 PM
Does any thread in the Lounge ever stay on topic ? So far this thread began with Gateway problems then forum donations, censorship, politics, gammon, moderators, for sale thread, clocks, Nigel being lashed, Nigel enjoying being lashed, traffic lights, yellow cards etc etc etc :D

Time to get your coats on folks........ :)


Darkroom

Leather coats?

Rocknroll59
18th March 2019, 04:08 PM
Wow....!! Isn't it amazing that a thread that started off as a Gateway problem can end up in a mire of debate again? Then dropping into leather straps and coats whats going on?? I imagine posting a for sale item in the future and ending up buying it back myself in all the confusion...:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Peter

;)

Zuiko
18th March 2019, 04:37 PM
Wow....!! Isn't it amazing that a thread that started off as a Gateway problem can end up in a mire of debate again? Then dropping into leather straps and coats whats going on?? I imagine posting a for sale item in the future and ending up buying it back myself in all the confusion...:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Peter

;)

Yes, and some think there should be less moderation! :D

The irony is that with so many contributors to this thread going off piste in different directions, we are in danger of losing focus on the original issue. :rolleyes:

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 05:12 PM
Yes, and some think there should be less moderation! :D

The irony is that with so many contributors to this thread going off piste in different directions, we are in danger of losing focus on the original issue. :rolleyes:

Ahhh butttt.......... hopefully the original issue is now sorted thanks to Ian's efforts. Which maybe why the thread is going off topic ?

We could of course always start a new thread related to Nigel and his preferences. We already know he has very weird taste when it comes to choosing trousers :D

Darkroom

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 05:16 PM
We could of course always start a new thread related to Nigel and his preferences. We already know he has very weird taste when it comes to choosing trousers :D

You mean, it's pants?

Harold

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 05:21 PM
You mean, it's pants?

Harold

He actually has worse taste than Michael Portillo !! :D

Darkroom

Harold Gough
18th March 2019, 05:22 PM
He actually has worse taste than Michael Portillo !! :D

Not possible!

Harold

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 05:26 PM
Not possible!

Harold

Good point, you could be right.... but bright red trousers ? He must be almost as bad :)


Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 05:59 PM
We could of course always start a new thread related to Nigel and his preferences. We already know he has very weird taste when it comes to choosing trousers :D

Darkroom

Well to be honest, I know we are not supposed to discuss politics here, but I am thinking of becoming a, well, you know, a politician. :o

Now, if you have finished oiling my leather strap I am looking forward to a good thrashing! :D

TimP
18th March 2019, 06:18 PM
If you’ve got some mustard coloured trousers then surely you’ve got a shoe in to the Tory party.

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 06:57 PM
If youíve got some mustard coloured trousers then surely youíve got a shoe in to the Tory party.

I think they need to be pink, which is rather ironic don't you think? ;)

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 07:12 PM
I think they need to be pink, which is rather ironic don't you think? ;)

Aw ! That rhymes ! Sweet ;)

Anyway...... save some cash, just bleach a few pairs of those bright red ones :D


Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
18th March 2019, 07:14 PM
Aw ! That rhymes ! Sweet ;)

Anyway...... save some cash, just bleach a few pairs of those bright red ones :D


Darkroom

No need. I can claim on MP's expenses. ;)

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 07:22 PM
Now I KNOW i'm old ! I started this thread 2 days ago, must have looked 100's of times, just realised I've made a typo on the 2nd word of the heading :mad:

A nice Admin may spot it and decide to put the "t" in :)

On the other hand..........................................

Darkroom

TimP
18th March 2019, 07:25 PM
Now I KNOW i'm old ! I started this thread 2 days ago, must have looked 100's of times, just realised I've made a typo on the 2nd word of the heading :mad:

A nice Admin may spot it and decide to put the "t" in :)

On the other hand..........................................

Darkroom

Itís been annoying me for all this time.

peak4
18th March 2019, 08:34 PM
Itís been annoying me for all this time.

Silly me, I though Darkroom was referring to the Windows Sill ;)

Darkroom
18th March 2019, 09:06 PM
Looks like a "Nice Admin" did spot it and has kindly made a correction. Many thanks *chr


Darkroom

Wee man
19th March 2019, 09:45 AM
As usual no thought for the colour blind amongst us; and it should be pointed out other camera straps are available both wet and dry! As for baths what happens in the summer (?) when the are water shortages do we let threads run on ( see what I did there) which would have been closed.

People wanting to go into politics should come over to Northern Ireland were you can get the job not go to work and still get paid + expenses BUT more attention needs to be paid to the colour of clothes worn so as not to send out the wrong message.

Tongue in cheek message.

Ed

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Naughty Nigel
19th March 2019, 09:53 AM
As usual no thought for the colour blind amongst us; and it should be pointed out other camera straps are available both wet and dry! As for baths what happens in the summer (?) when the are water shortages do we let threads run on ( see what I did there) which would have been closed.

People wanting to go into politics should come over to Northern Ireland where you can get the job not go to work and still get paid + expenses BUT more attention needs to be paid to the colour of clothes worn so as not to send out the wrong message.

Tongue in cheek message.

Ed

:D :D :D

I would imagine orange could be either popular or unpopular in some quarters. ;)

Naughty Nigel
19th March 2019, 10:02 AM
As for baths what happens in the summer (?) when the are water shortages do we let threads run on ( see what I did there) which would have been closed.

Ed

If we have water shortages we could have an image of Zuiko holding up a red or yellow card accordingly. That way we can be sent for an early bath without wasting any water. *yes

https://www.rugbydump.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/91c2a74c7a0044e02a05735e141569fe.jpg


Or maybe this photograph would be more appropriate for the Lounge. :D


https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/03/try-630x420.jpg

Zuiko
19th March 2019, 10:06 AM
If we have water shortages we could have an image of Zuiko holding up a red or yellow card accordingly. That way we can be sent for an early bath without wasting any water. *yes

https://www.rugbydump.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/91c2a74c7a0044e02a05735e141569fe.jpg

He he, I really hope I don't need to hold up many cards of either colour! :D

Wee man
19th March 2019, 10:33 AM
Please write the colour name on the cards for the colour blind I just hope we do not have colour blind dyslexic people on board!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Naughty Nigel
19th March 2019, 11:21 AM
Please write the colour name on the cards for the colour blind I just hope we do not have colour blind dyslexic people on board!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

We could have numbers instead, so a No 1 for minor incursions, or No 2 for a Big Jobbie!

Or as one of my Irish friends says, 'that's a mortaler'. :D

Harold Gough
19th March 2019, 11:25 AM
A nice Admin

Mods pet!

Harold

TimP
19th March 2019, 11:37 AM
Or as one of my Irish friends says, 'that's a mortaler'. :D

Iíve tried an Oirish accent and canít get that phrase... run it past us again please.

Naughty Nigel
19th March 2019, 11:47 AM
Iíve tried an Oirish accent and canít get that phrase... run it past us again please.

Try "Dat's a mortaler" ; as in an unforgivable forum post, or 'that money was just resting in my account Dougal. ;)

Do you need any more clues?

TimP
19th March 2019, 12:38 PM
Try "Dat's a mortaler" ; as in an unforgivable forum post, or 'that money was just resting in my account Dougal. ;)

Do you need any more clues?

Sadly yes! Shall I just quietly go away and ponder over a music player.....

Otto
19th March 2019, 01:04 PM
Sadly yes! Shall I just quietly go away and ponder over a music player.....


Go via the Urban Dictionary (https://www.urbandictionary.com/), you'll find an answer there :).

Harold Gough
19th March 2019, 02:55 PM
Iíve tried an Oirish accent and canít get that phrase... run it past us again please.

Try rolling your r's?

Harold

TimP
19th March 2019, 06:57 PM
Try rolling your r's?

Harold

Just done it, no help Iím afraid. Iím off to the urban dictionary, but like Rogers Profanisaurus Iíll probably end up down a rabbit hole there, stuck for hours, giggling.

TimP
19th March 2019, 06:59 PM
Well, I’ve been and I’m kinda none the wiser really! I didn’t get side tracked, although ‘anal carpet bombing’ very nearly got a click.

Naughty Nigel
19th March 2019, 07:43 PM
Just done it, no help Iím afraid. Iím off to the urban dictionary, but like Rogers Profanisaurus Iíll probably end up down a rabbit hole there, stuck for hours, giggling.

Nothing as exciting or kinky as anal carpet bombing I'm afraid, although that particular practice may fall into this category.

A 'mortler' or 'mortaler' is a mortal or unforgivable sin, so no amount of Hail Mary's or Our Father's will save you from eternal damnation; but Bishop Brennan might just give you absolution of you mention his girlfriend and children. :D

Ian
20th March 2019, 08:40 AM
Another time out just now - I'm discussing with the techs right now.

Ian

Ian
21st March 2019, 09:58 AM
So we have made more changes to the server configuration - let's see if this fixes the problem.

Ian

Darkroom
21st March 2019, 10:18 AM
So we have made more changes to the server configuration - let's see if this fixes the problem.

Ian


It's still running fine here with no problems experienced since you did the first "tweak".

Darkroom

Ian
22nd March 2019, 11:23 AM
There was a problem since the original tweak but you were fortunate enough to have missed it :)

Ian