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Graham_of_Rainham
8th February 2019, 09:18 PM
I went to the National Gallery and saw a Painting by an “Unknown Artist”

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/EE09A393-6111-4845-A036-CBA522D37F77.jpeg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/101723)

Down in the left hand corner, there are some items on a table

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/37B19A70-E94A-4F51-B834-2B00535A8DB2.jpeg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/101724)

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/EC1A6B66-6449-4676-BB26-DBB89707D5FC.jpeg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/101726)

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/50BC408E-16CB-4E5B-9136-464790DA1CED.jpeg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/101725)

I was amazed by the details and this got me wondering what equivalent resolution would be needed to reproduce something that good.

Otto
8th February 2019, 09:40 PM
It's usually reckoned that 300 ppi on a print is about the limit of the human eye's resolving power so if you multiply the size of the painting in inches by 300 that should give you an idea. For those of us of a certain age, 200ppi might well be enough!

Internaut
8th February 2019, 11:30 PM
Unknown Artist? I guess the the nationality may have been Dutch (or an admirer thereof)... I’m trying to remember where I first saw paintings of similar detail. The Prado, perhaps.

wornish
9th February 2019, 08:52 AM
At first, I thought you were showing the detail captured by the camera.

What are the dimensions of the full painting?

Phill D
9th February 2019, 09:07 AM
That level of detail in a painting is pretty impressive. It must have taken ages to actually paint it. What a shame it's an unknown artist. Is it a painting in a temporary exhibition or is it there all the time Graham?

TimP
9th February 2019, 09:13 AM
At first, I thought you were showing the detail captured by the camera.

What are the dimensions of the full painting?

Me too, so the detail shots are separate photos taken up close rather than crops of the full picture?
I thought it was a bit too good to be true! Or is it?

DerekW
9th February 2019, 09:22 AM
See
https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/flemish-cognoscenti-in-a-room-hung-with-pictures

for more information

wornish
9th February 2019, 09:44 AM
So the full painting is approx 3ft x 4ft in old numbers (thanks for the link DerekW)

That makes the little ruler on the table about 1" long.

The detail achieved by the artist is amazing.

Phill D
9th February 2019, 10:27 AM
I agree Dave the detail in those objects is very impressive. As are the drawing images shown in the open book.

Darkroom
9th February 2019, 12:12 PM
Thanks Graham ! SWMBO wants me to order a large print :mad:

*chr Darkroom

Otto
9th February 2019, 12:33 PM
So the full painting is approx 3ft x 4ft in old numbers (thanks for the link DerekW)


That means at 300ppi 14,400 x 10,800 pixels or about 148MP. A bit much for even an EM1x unless you take a lot of sections and do a bit of pano stitching! The detail is extraordinary, it must have taken the artist months to paint.

Graham_of_Rainham
9th February 2019, 01:04 PM
See
https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/flemish-cognoscenti-in-a-room-hung-with-pictures

for more information

Thank you so much for hunting down that link.

I really like the “photo-realistic” paintings and this one really caught my eyes.

The last time I saw anything this good was in the portrait gallery and at first I thought it was a photograph. Such skills puts my photography to shame, which is why I like to go to galleries for inspiration.

*chr

OM USer
9th February 2019, 01:43 PM
Truly a work of art. Thanks.

Jax
9th February 2019, 02:01 PM
Unknown Artist? I guess the the nationality may have been Dutch (or an admirer thereof)... I’m trying to remember where I first saw paintings of similar detail. The Prado, perhaps.

I feel sure The National Gallery would be grateful for any help you supplied in determining the identity of the artist.


Jax

Darkroom
9th February 2019, 03:03 PM
I have to admit to never previously visiting the National Gallery site.

Having just had a large lounge redecorated and SWMBO deciding the pictures we had on the walls are now in need of replacing, that site provides no end of inspiration and possibilities for purchasing art prints on paper and canvas, at what I assume to be reasonable prices.

Many genuine thanks to Graham for his original post *chr

If anyone has had dealings with or purchased art prints from similar online sites, please feel free to post details, it would be appreciated.

Darkroom

Keith-369
9th February 2019, 03:07 PM
Amazing dedication and skill required to paint a picture with detail like that. Thanks for showing.

shenstone
9th February 2019, 04:42 PM
Amazing dedication and skill required to paint a picture with detail like that. Thanks for showing.

It put's those who consider an "unmade bed" to be art to shame doesn't it *chr

Darkroom
9th February 2019, 05:00 PM
It put's those who consider an "unmade bed" to be art to shame doesn't it *chr

Last time we visited the Tate in Liverpool, people were enthusing and commenting about the artistic merits of a washing machine sliced in half with an angle grinder, also on another exhibit a coil of ships rope. We didn't stay long.



Darkroom

Keith-369
9th February 2019, 05:26 PM
Last time we visited the Tate in Liverpool, people were enthusing and commenting about the artistic merits of a washing machine sliced in half with an angle grinder, also on another exhibit a coil of ships rope. We didn't stay long.Darkroom

And someone's actually being paid for this load of *&^%$£" ...... and thinking about that, with whose money?

MikeOxon
9th February 2019, 05:53 PM
For me, the zenith of the style of painting minute details and in representing the effects of natural light on various surfaces occurs in the work of Jan van Eyck.



I often call in at the National Gallery just to marvel again at his Arnolfini Portrait (https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jan-van-eyck-the-arnolfini-portrait). It seems that the artist himself knew he'd achieved something special, since he wrote on the wall in the background: 'Jan van Eyck was here 1434' That's about 400 years before the first photograph was taken! How on earth did he do it?

DerekW
9th February 2019, 06:10 PM
Thank you so much for hunting down that link.


*chr

I have to confess that I used the Image search option in Firefox. I select the image on the screen then RM click and select the appropriate action Search Google for Image

Graham_of_Rainham
9th February 2019, 09:06 PM
I also liked the way this artist put the shadow of her hat across her face.

Such a clever observation, especially in a self portrait.

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/elisabeth-louise-vigee-le-brun-self-portrait-in-a-straw-hat

drmarkf
10th February 2019, 10:57 AM
Depends whether you want ‘art’ or ‘reproductions’ and what your budget is (tens or hundreds of quid, or more), and whether you like modernist stuff and Britart. However, I’ve found these people a good source of sensibly-priced art prints (by the current market’s definition of ‘sensible’ anyway!), and in my experience they’re well described and often come with some provenance. They respond promptly to enquiries as well, and I believe they are happy to do a bit of negotiating if you’re buying more than one.

Some of the artists are extremely well known & trendy (Francis Bacon, Henry Moore etc) and priced accordingly, but there are also some less well known artists with good work here for under a thousand quid.

https://www.modernprints.co.uk

Internaut
10th February 2019, 01:36 PM
I feel sure The National Gallery would be grateful for any help you supplied in determining the identity of the artist.


Jax

Assuming one of the Dutch Masters (or a fan thereof), then ID is unlikely. The painting is sublime but not terribly unusual for the period.

drmarkf
10th February 2019, 02:42 PM
There’s a perennial and entertaining debate to be had between ‘art’ and ‘craft’: so, for everyone laughing at piles of bricks and Tracey’s unmade bed, there are people who say the ‘perfect’ representation of the real world in hyperreality art is just sterile reproduction, so lots of craft, but derivative, unoriginal and no detectable art at all.

Nothing sterile about Tracey’s sheets of course :D

However, the number signing up to like post #17 above show that the piece amply satisfies on of the best definition of ‘art’ I’m aware of, which broadly is “something that moves you”. It doesn’t matter how or in what way, of course, and ridicule and hatred are just fine *chr

Anyway, I do recommend this little book to anyone who’d like to look up non-pretentious descriptions of what modern artists meant by their often-strange creations. There’s also one in the same series on photography, which is similarly good.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/9533029/Why-Your-Five-Year-Old-Could-Not-Have-Done-That-by-Susie-Hodge-review.html

DerekW
10th February 2019, 03:32 PM
The only comments one can make about art is either

I do not like it

or Yes I do like it - I like it because....


If you do not like something then do not spend effort in understanding the work. Do not waste your time on it, thus leaving space and time for people that do enjoy the work to get to the front of the queue and see and enjoy the work.

drmarkf
10th February 2019, 04:02 PM
The only comments one can make about art is either

I do not like it

or Yes I do like it - I like it because....


If you do not like something then do not spend effort in understanding the work. Do not waste your time on it, thus leaving space and time for people that do enjoy the work to get to the front of the queue and see and enjoy the work.

Seems very self-limiting to me, Derek.
Havn't you ever learned to appreciate something by learning more about it?
Anyway, it's the individual's choice.

Otto
10th February 2019, 04:45 PM
This young lady produces the most amazingly intricate drawings of wildlife and landscapes, some of which are almost indistinguishable from photographs:

https://www.staceymooreart.com/

Gate Keeper
10th February 2019, 05:33 PM
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/1101497

The Awakening of Galitea

Here is a thing. A medical student lodging at my Grandmother's house in Bridgend, after the war left the above print with her after he moved out. Why? It was a goodbye gift. Because of the nude content, the print was confined to the loft where it remained and was handed down though the family from one generation to the next, always hidden out of view.

In 1998, I posted it up on google to try and find out about the artist and the history of the print. A collector in the USA, made contact and told me he just had to have it. But I had to let him down and tell him, for sentimental reasons, it was not for sale.

DerekW
10th February 2019, 06:34 PM
Seems very self-limiting to me, Derek.
Havn't you ever learned to appreciate something by learning more about it?
Anyway, it's the individual's choice.

The things I mentioned were to help people get to appreciate art without getting prescriptive about things like Emin's Bed. I went to an Emin show at Tate Britain which included the bed, I was not unhappy about it, I was glad that I went to the show.

I have a reasonably wide appreciation of art including a collection of South Western (AZ and NM) original art that has been collected over the last 18 years or so.

Subject to physical capability we go to the various exhibitions in London and other places and enjoy them.

Darkroom
10th February 2019, 06:45 PM
The things I mentioned were to help people get to appreciate art without getting prescriptive about things like Emin's Bed. I went to an Emin show at Tate Britain which included the bed, I was not unhappy about it, I was glad that I went to the show.

I have a reasonably wide appreciation of art including a collection of South Western (AZ and NM) original art that has been collected over the last 18 years or so.

Subject to physical capability we go to the various exhibitions in London and other places and enjoy them.

As drmarkf stated, it's the individual's choice. As an owner of several angle grinders I just wish I could get the Tate to purchase chopped up washing machines from me :D

Darkroom

DerekW
10th February 2019, 07:00 PM
Yoou have to start small, set up a story and then get some PR and you are set for a career as a creative angle grinder artist. After all some peope make a living creating carvings from tree trunks with a chain saw.

shenstone
10th February 2019, 07:04 PM
Sorry for distracting this thread with my comment ... why don't we get back to discussing the quality of workmanship in that painting which I consider to be 100% superb

Regards
Andy

Darkroom
10th February 2019, 07:37 PM
Sorry for distracting this thread with my comment ... why don't we get back to discussing the quality of workmanship in that painting which I consider to be 100% superb

Regards
Andy

Personally Andy I don't consider your comment was a distraction. The quality of the workmanship in the painting is obviously beyond dispute but as all threads do, the conversation has developed into other lines of thought and considerations in this case, relating to art.

So far, the comments have all been valid and constructive opinions, albeit some slightly tongue in cheek. Some posts have included some valuable interesting links. Everyone has different opinions and perceptions on what a fine painting or other item of art should be and expressing those opinions, as you and others have, within the forum, in a polite manner, is surely the whole point of the thread. :confused:

As always, I could be wrong *yes

Darkroom

Jim Ford
10th February 2019, 08:44 PM
My partner's late father is a listed artist and there are several of his paintings hanging in the house. He was born in Koenigsberg, East Prussia (now Kaliningrad, Russia). He served in the Wehrmacht on the Eastern front and some of his sketches are quite harrowing (eg. bodies being tipped from a cart into a mass grave!) Much of his work was lost when my partner's mother and her, her sister and brother had to flee from the advancing Russians.

The 'artistic gene' carried through to my partner and late sister who were both graphic designers, and her younger brother who's a stone mason. My partner's middle daughter is an art teacher and a granddaughter is a medical scientist, who's started producing artwork. Some of it is a bit macabre - see halfway down this page:

https://www.charlotte-poppy-illustration.com/bio

When my partner had a pacemaker fitted, we used the 'heart with poppies' one on a 'thank you' card to the ward staff!

Jim

Graham_of_Rainham
10th February 2019, 09:07 PM
I enquired about installing a perspective breaking piece (I would never call it art) in the turbine hall of Tate Modern.

They were interested, right up to the point where they asked about my “artists credentials”...

Jim Ford
10th February 2019, 09:08 PM
Sorry for distracting this thread with my comment ... why don't we get back to discussing the quality of workmanship in that painting which I consider to be 100% superb

I'd give it 90% - the poses of the standing figures are stiff and unnatural, but then it was pretty much the style in those times.

My own taste is mainly for Turner, Pre-Raphaelites, Glasgow Boys and various others. I don't like a lot of modern stuff, especially abstract and conceptual art.

I've been in the Tate Modern once. I felt like saying at the enquiries counter 'I understand that there's an art gallery nearby, I wonder if you could direct me to it', and walk out laughing when they tell me that I was in it!

Jim

drmarkf
10th February 2019, 10:51 PM
Personally Andy I don't consider your comment was a distraction. The quality of the workmanship in the painting is obviously beyond dispute but as all threads do, the conversation has developed into other lines of thought and considerations in this case, relating to art.

So far, the comments have all been valid and constructive opinions, albeit some slightly tongue in cheek. Some posts have included some valuable interesting links. Everyone has different opinions and perceptions on what a fine painting or other item of art should be and expressing those opinions, as you and others have, within the forum, in a polite manner, is surely the whole point of the thread. :confused:

As always, I could be wrong *yes

Darkroom

Yes, I agree. This sort of thread is surely the bread and butter of the Lounge here.

Over the years I’ve learned all sorts of things from people on here that have nothing to do with photography (never mind those that do), and it’s also in my view valuable to be reminded that not all perfectly reasonable people think alike.

My wife and I go to a lot of gallery exhibitions and shows, including many ‘modern’ art ones. Overall I’d say I like about 25% works in the average modern gallery, and perhaps another 25% are ‘interesting’ in some way or other.

Not that different from ‘classical’ art galleries overall, where maybe 50% works I find dull.

I’d say it’s well worth keeping an eye on what’s on at the Tate Modern - they have some wonderful photography exhibitions. Elton John’s fantastic collection last year, where I went on a curator’s tour, and Martin Parr, to name but two.

Gate Keeper
12th February 2019, 02:17 PM
Sorry for distracting this thread with my comment ... why don't we get back to discussing the quality of workmanship in that painting which I consider to be 100% superb

Regards
Andy

Indeed it is a superb painting. Some artists did works of art under different names, in this case, anonymous. There will be an expert who will recognise the style, the strokes, the detailing, the play on light and will have an inkling as to who the artist is.

shenstone
12th February 2019, 02:34 PM
Indeed it is a superb painting. Some artists did works of art under different names, in this case, anonymous. There will be an expert who will recognise the style, the strokes, the detailing, the play on light and will have an inkling as to who the artist is.


And sometimes you don't even need to be an expert ... through my historical researches I was able to put an artist name to this picture which was previously listed as "unknown"

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/mrs-viriami-jones-159297/view_as/grid/search/keyword:haycraft-1921233/page/1

regards
Andy

Gate Keeper
13th February 2019, 04:03 PM
And sometimes you don't even need to be an expert ... through my historical researches I was able to put an artist name to this picture which was previously listed as "unknown"

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/mrs-viriami-jones-159297/view_as/grid/search/keyword:haycraft-1921233/page/1

regards
Andy

Andy, you must have felt quite chuffed. In your place, I would have been *chr Behind every photo there is a story. I think the same can apply to a painting or to caricature. Over the years we have collected various oil paintings, including caricatures done by Thomas Rowlandson. An aunt in South Africa said she needed a whack of money to buy herself a new Range cooker and some other things for her kitchen. She had a Rowlandson, we had always wanted. We did her a good deal and bought it off her for £3,000. I brought it back to Kenya on the plane. I realise the caricatures don’t appeal to everyone and you might wonder what the artist was trying to say in his/her highly detailed photographic quality painting in the original post of this thread. It is certainly appreciated for the artistic skills.