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Harold Gough
19th December 2018, 11:40 AM
I was assaulted om my own doorstep by one of these thugs on Monday evening (after dark).

https://www.safelocaltrades.com/consumers/advice/doorstep-pedlars

This individual flashed one of the rehabilitation documents at the start, which I took to be genuine. He kept complaining about always having doors slammed in his face and pleading with me not to dismiss him as “not my problem”.

The individual would not take “no” and kept ringing the bell every time I shut the door. Finally, he spat at me, only my slamming the door saving me. I then stepped just outside to point up our drive and tell him, once more, to leave. He then took up a boxer’s sparing stance and threatened me and then grabbed me. There was a tussle, although no blows were exchanged, my wife appearing just then, to outnumber him.

I am 73 years old, as is my wife. He was clearly surprised that I was as strong as him, I might not have been. I am on blood pressure pills, or the outcome might have been serious for me. He eventually left and we called the police. It seems that they were already in the area due to another report of the same individual active in nearby Micklands Road.

This is third such individual to bother us over the past two or three years. The first one was about 18 stone of the most bulging muscles I have seen on any fully clothed man! My wife thought that the one here on Monday was one she had seen before. I believe they have been a problem recently in Henley.

There needs to be specific legislation to protect us from this threat in our own homes. This can only be effective via a mandatory minimum custodial sentence.

My actual concern was not fear. I was an instructor in the martial arts in the 1980s. It was that I could end up arrested for assaulting him when trying to defend myself, my family and my home.

Here are a few links to indicate that you are not safe anywhere from these:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17293452.scam-warning-after-nottingham-knocker-spotted-selling-door-to-door-near-romsey/

https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/17281616.dorset-police-issue-warning-after-nottingham-knockers-target-residents/

https://interests.me/org/deachy/story/19222


Harold

Jim Ford
19th December 2018, 12:16 PM
Police? Ah yes, I remember them! Didn't they used to go round keeping law and order? I wonder what happened to them - I thought that they were rather a good idea!

Jim

Darkroom
19th December 2018, 12:21 PM
I can fully appreciate your anger and frustration Harold plus your concern of being treated as the guilty party if you had needed to defend yourself further. The possibility of these offenses receiving a custodial sentence is extremely slim even if you had been injured. For an assault to be treated seriously by police there has to be obvious signs of injury such as serious cuts or bruising otherwise they state it is a Civil Matter.

Police in this area no longer even attend incidents of car theft or house burglary, simply providing a crime number over the phone for insurance purposes. Interestingly, a few weeks later, a letter arrives asking if you would like to attend a counselling session due to your unfortunate experience. :confused:

We are considering installing a video speaker device on the front door so there is no need to open it unless the caller is known.

The situation won't improve any time soon.

Darkroom

Harold Gough
19th December 2018, 12:27 PM
Police? Ah yes, I remember them! Didn't they used to go round keeping law and order? I wonder what happened to them - I thought that they were rather a good idea!

Jim

Yes, they brought back childhood memories. Our son was 7 years old before he saw a PC on the beat.

Harold

Harold Gough
19th December 2018, 12:30 PM
I can fully appreciate your anger and frustration Harold plus your concern of being treated as the guilty party if you had needed to defend yourself further. The possibility of these offenses receiving a custodial sentence is extremely slim even if you had been injured. For an assault to be treated seriously by police there has to be obvious signs of injury such as serious cuts or bruising otherwise they state it is a Civil Matter.

I'm not interested in my case so much as getting these vermin (the correct term) off the streets.

Harold

Phill D
19th December 2018, 01:08 PM
Nasty business, glad you are ok Harold.

Naughty Nigel
19th December 2018, 01:32 PM
We suffered a similar incident about two years ago when a bunch of these characters knocked on doors using similar tactics, trying to sell overpriced car washing cloths and similar.

They introduced themselves as 'ex-offenders' and were clearly using this tactic to intimidate. They also claimed that as they were on probation they were on government business and did not have to abode by our clearly displayed 'No Cold Caller' signs.

I made it clear from the outset that I wasn't interested but the caller insisted on emptying his bag of tat onto our doorstep. When I told him that I had no cash and didn't want to buy anything I received a mouthful of abuse from the young thug who seemed to have something of a tantrum as he walked along our drive to meet up with three or four comrades who had been doing business along the street.

I called the police, who it seems had already been called by a neighbour. The caller there had pretended to be attacked by their dog, a Golden Retriever, and was writhing around in agony on their front lawn threatening to phone the police unless he was given money. Our neighbour saved him a job and called the police himself, whereupon the toerag made a miraculous recovery from his injuries and 'legged it'!

Other neighbours had also called the police owing to their threatening and abusive behaviour.

In fairness the police did come out quite promptly and trawled around the streets for an hour or two. They didn't catch anyone but they did say that the villains are known to them from surrounding areas. Thankfully they haven't been back since.

More recently there has been a spate of car thefts and attempted car thefts around the village. These have involved breaking into properties for keys, and in two cases the thieves stole keys to move other vehicles to get to those they wanted!

These thefts were followed by some suspicions characters walking the streets who appeared to be spraying weedkiller - at around 7 am on a frosty December morning! One of our neighbours, who is a keen Gardner, challenged one of the group who didn't reply, but left the scene very quickly. Their van, a blue Ford Transit, had not been registered with the DVLA for some time apparently.

They are still at large but the police reckon they were trying to 'frostjack' cars left running on driveways.

Harold Gough
19th December 2018, 02:22 PM
Nasty business, glad you are ok Harold.

Thanks. My MP is going to try to find some Parliamentary time for the issue.

Harold

Otto
19th December 2018, 02:29 PM
Makes me grateful for living in a rural area with minimal crime apart from the occasional quad bike theft. Glad you're OK Harold.

Gate Keeper
19th December 2018, 02:51 PM
A shocking and traumatic experience. Thank goodness Harold you weren’t hurt. Several years ago, whilst working in a rehab unit in Hackney, I was set upon by 2 ex-offenders who had gotten into an argument over their supper, both turned on me when I tried to break up it up. Just one other member of staff was on duty. I defended myself and managed to put one down onto the floor. I had done Judo. I shouted to the staff to call the police, an ambulance and to lock herself in the office. I was given a thorough beating, punched in the face and kicked in the stomach. The emergency services came quick. The attack was over in about 15 minutes but it seemed a lifetime and took it out of me, physically and mentally. The attackers didn’t run away or put up a fight when police came. One of the attackers, got 18 months inside and the other was sent to a secure unit. I was not prosecuted for defending myself.

These events when they happen without any warning are quite stressful and not long after the attack I was diagnosed with an abdominal aortic aneurysm. For that reason I decided it was too risky to continue working in that environment and ultimately I left. I was having flashbacks about what happened, whereby I replayed the attack over and over. I received a great deal of support from my employers and the police were sympathetic. If you experience flashbacks, it’s quite normal and being able to talk about it does help. Having a CCTV system installed around the outside of your house is a visual deterrent. I had one professionally fitted to my former London home 2 years ago, a WiFi system with a 500GB hard drive £600 to give you an idea about the costs. I am really sorry this has happened to you.

art frames
19th December 2018, 04:19 PM
Harold you have my sympathy and best wishes. I am glad you did not get hurt by this individual.

Thank you for the warning, I never engage with people at the door, or on the phone. I will warn my wife who is less direct with callers.

Naughty Nigel
19th December 2018, 04:19 PM
The even more worrying aspect of these household events is that the offenders often use such opportunities to 'case a joint' and may well return to burgle a property or worse.

We later learned that someone in the next street, a retired Social Worker, 'felt sorry for the boy' and gave him £10. I think he soon realised his mistake when the young thug returned later the same day with one of his comrades to demand more. :(

Darkroom
19th December 2018, 04:32 PM
We used to have a photo of our cross Rottweiler Mastiff on the front door with a statement below "He Can Reach The Front Gate In 3 Seconds... Can You ? "

It seemed effective. *yes

Darkroom

NickLeon
19th December 2018, 06:00 PM
Horrible tale, glad that you got through it OK. Something is wrong with police priorities these days - protecting people from this sort of thing should me near the top of the list.

DavyG
19th December 2018, 07:52 PM
I was assaulted om my own doorstep by one of these thugs on Monday evening (after dark).

https://www.safelocaltrades.com/consumers/advice/doorstep-pedlars

This individual flashed one of the rehabilitation documents at the start, which I took to be genuine. He kept complaining about always having doors slammed in his face and pleading with me not to dismiss him as “not my problem”.

The individual would not take “no” and kept ringing the bell every time I shut the door. Finally, he spat at me, only my slamming the door saving me. I then stepped just outside to point up our drive and tell him, once more, to leave. He then took up a boxer’s sparing stance and threatened me and then grabbed me. There was a tussle, although no blows were exchanged, my wife appearing just then, to outnumber him.

I am 73 years old, as is my wife. He was clearly surprised that I was as strong as him, I might not have been. I am on blood pressure pills, or the outcome might have been serious for me. He eventually left and we called the police. It seems that they were already in the area due to another report of the same individual active in nearby Micklands Road.

This is third such individual to bother us over the past two or three years. The first one was about 18 stone of the most bulging muscles I have seen on any fully clothed man! My wife thought that the one here on Monday was one she had seen before. I believe they have been a problem recently in Henley.

There needs to be specific legislation to protect us from this threat in our own homes. This can only be effective via a mandatory minimum custodial sentence.

My actual concern was not fear. I was an instructor in the martial arts in the 1980s. It was that I could end up arrested for assaulting him when trying to defend myself, my family and my home.

Here are a few links to indicate that you are not safe anywhere from these:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17293452.scam-warning-after-nottingham-knocker-spotted-selling-door-to-door-near-romsey/

https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/17281616.dorset-police-issue-warning-after-nottingham-knockers-target-residents/

https://interests.me/org/deachy/story/19222


Harold

Sorry to hear of this disturbing event Harold, I’m glad you’re okay.

Dave

DavyG
19th December 2018, 08:01 PM
Horrible tale, glad that you got through it OK. Something is wrong with police priorities these days - protecting people from this sort of thing should me near the top of the list.

I think you should have said: Something is wrong with policing these days.

You would be correct as the number of police officers in England and Wales has fallen by over 20,000 between March 2010 and March 2018.

Between dealing with individuals who go missing on a regular basis and having to act in lieu of a decent mental health care system, the few Police officers we have are stretched beyond belief.

Having recently spoken with serving Police officers, they would dearly love to be out patrolling and dealing with matters such as Harold encountered however, when they find themselves spending a full shift on constant watch over an individual with mental health issues, that leaves one less officer on the ground every time.

Dave

Naughty Nigel
19th December 2018, 08:02 PM
Horrible tale, glad that you got through it OK. Something is wrong with police priorities these days - protecting people from this sort of thing should me near the top of the list.

Issuing speeding tickets raises more revenue.

DavyG
19th December 2018, 08:03 PM
Issuing speeding tickets raises more revenue.

And potentially saves lives.

Dave

Naughty Nigel
19th December 2018, 08:08 PM
And potentially saves lives.

Dave

Potentially.

There are far more dangerous driving offences which are rarely prosecuted because it is difficult to harvest them on an industrial scale.

DavyG
19th December 2018, 08:23 PM
Potentially.

There are far more dangerous driving offences which are rarely prosecuted because it is difficult to harvest them on an industrial scale.

Agreed however, those who man the static vans equipped with speed cameras are civilians, not Police officers.

Traffic officers do stop people who are speeding but usually give some leeway unless in a restricted zone.

I regularly see the Police being criticised for dealing with traffic offences however, while I agree that there are more serious crimes, traffic Police usually deal with traffic offences, that's their job.

As I understand it, if you're insured, taxed, have a current MOT where required, stick to the speed limit, don't drink or take drugs while driving and drive as required by the law, it's unlikely you would receive a ticket for a traffic offence.

Dave

Jim Ford
19th December 2018, 09:07 PM
I'm starting to feel that if the police won't or can't protect to public, then the public ought to be allowed to protect themselves!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
19th December 2018, 11:08 PM
Agreed however, those who man the static vans equipped with speed cameras are civilians, not Police officers.

Traffic officers do stop people who are speeding but usually give some leeway unless in a restricted zone.

I regularly see the Police being criticised for dealing with traffic offences however, while I agree that there are more serious crimes, traffic Police usually deal with traffic offences, that's their job.

As I understand it, if you're insured, taxed, have a current MOT where required, stick to the speed limit, don't drink or take drugs while driving and drive as required by the law, it's unlikely you would receive a ticket for a traffic offence.

Dave

Fair comment, but excess speed is about the only 'offence' not guaranteed to cause an accident at some point. It all comes down to the skill and ability of the driver.

I have no issue with speed limits in built up areas; they are there for a good reason. But the fixed national speed limits on main roads and motorways serve little purpose in unfavourable weather conditions, and hinder drivers in good conditions when better progress could be made.

My gripe with the current inflexible enforcement of motorway speed limits in particular is that the majority of drivers are now terrified to drive at 71 or 72 MPH, (even though their true speed may be less than 65 MPH). This in turn results in dangerous 'bunching', frustration and aggressive undertaking, which is far more likely to result in a collision than the overtakers travelling at an indicated 80 MPH (=72 ~ 74 MPH true speed) for half a mile so that they can break up the bunch and get back into lane one or two.

The Spanish have a law which allows an extra 10 KM/Hr (IIRC) for overtakes, which seems a very sensible idea to me. The less time spent in the wrong lane, or on the wrong side of the road the better.

The continentals also have higher motorway speed limits better suited to modern vehicles than those of 1967 when the present 70 MPH limit was introduced.

DavyG
19th December 2018, 11:13 PM
Fair comment, but excess speed is about the only 'offence' not guaranteed to cause an accident at some point. It all comes down to the skill and ability of the driver.

I have no issue with speed limits in built up areas; they are there for a good reason. But the fixed national speed limits on main roads and motorways serve little purpose in unfavourable weather conditions, and hinder drivers in good conditions when better progress could be made.

My gripe with the current inflexible enforcement of motorway speed limits in particular is that the majority of drivers are now terrified to drive at 71 or 72 MPH, (even though their true speed may be less than 65 MPH). This in turn results in dangerous 'bunching', frustration and aggressive undertaking, which is far more likely to result in a collision than the overtakers travelling at an indicated 80 MPH (=72 ~ 74 MPH true speed) for half a mile so that they can break up the bunch and get back into lane one or two.

The Spanish have a law which allows an extra 10 KM/Hr (IIRC) for overtakes, which seems a very sensible idea to me. The less time spent in the wrong lane, or on the wrong side of the road the better.

The continentals also have higher motorway speed limits better suited to modern vehicles than those of 1967 when the present 70 MPH limit was introduced.

Have you been given a speeding fine/points lately Nigel?

Dave

MJ224
19th December 2018, 11:20 PM
As sAid sorry to hear of the incident, and very pleased you have come through it. Just hope the shock of it does not linger too long...mark j

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 12:03 AM
Have you been given a speeding fine/points lately Nigel?

Dave

Not since 1987 touch wood.

However, my wife received a ticket for driving at 35 MPH in a temporary 30 MPH limit on a three-lane motorway which was clearly a revenue generating exercise. The problem was that the car was being MOT'd at the time but the police were not interested in that fact even though the evidence was overwhelming. Instead they threatened her with a £1,000 fine and six points if she didn't pay up (£60) and hand over her licence for three points.

We even went to the office where the films were kept and viewed the exposures. The weather was very poor at the time (it was mid December) but all three exposures clearly showed the driver and a passenger wearing Evans Halshaw overalls, although their faces could not be identified. The driver was also wearing a red and white woolly hat (Middlesbrough colours). My wife is a Geordie so that was a totally unforgivable insult! :mad:

Crucially, the time was 10.20 am, more than an hour and a half after we had dropped the car off for its service and MOT.

It is a long story but the police really didn't gave a ***** who was driving. They took the attitude that we were responsible for the car at all times, even though the law requires that you hand your car over for an annual MOT test have no control or say over who drives it. Frankly it was all about the money and the stats, which makes a total nonsense of the occasional high-profile cases in which MP's are sent to prison for "perverting the course of justice" over such matters.

Interestingly, the Chief Constable of the same force (Cleveland) had had his own speeding charge dropped a few weeks previously because (in his own words) 'he couldn't remember who was driving the car at the time'. :mad:

Apparently this didn't set a precedent for members of the public who pay the Chief Constable's salary.

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 10:00 AM
Have you been given a speeding fine/points lately Nigel?

Dave

Actually I should clarify.

I was awarded six points at Newbury Magistrates Court for speeding on the southbound A34 late one night. The road was deserted at the time apart from me and an unmarked police car. I had seen a car approaching at high speed from behind and thought to myself 'he deserves to get his collar felt for driving that that speed'. Then it lit up blue, prompting one of those 'awshit' moments. :o

I already had three points for a minor speeding offence so I had to be ultra careful for the next two years. :rolleyes:

drmarkf
20th December 2018, 10:32 AM
I’m sorry to hear of your appalling experience, Harold. I hope you feel better soon: I’m sure any of us here would be knocked sideways by something like that.

I opened the door to what turned out to be one of these a couple of years ago. He was persistent and argumentative, but did scarper immediately I put my phone to my ear having said I was calling the police. I might have been visually assisted by the mole wrench that happened to be in my hand as I opened the door (I was in the middle of some DIY plumbing in the hall).

You can get some very effective and not too expensive video monitoring systems these days that can be used inside and/or outside, and we’re probably going to get one for the front garden & path. Different systems suit different people’s layouts, but even a dummy camera would enable you to point out they were being recorded. Whatever you go for has to be mounted out of reach so it can’t be inactivated, and it’s much more difficult if your front door opens directly on to the road in a town since you can only film your own property.

Harold Gough
20th December 2018, 10:47 AM
I’m sorry to hear of your appalling experience, Harold. I hope you feel better soon: I’m sure any of us here would be knocked sideways by something like that.

I opened the door to what turned out to be one of these a couple of years ago. He was persistent and argumentative, but did scarper immediately I put my phone to my ear having said I was calling the police. I might have been visually assisted by the mole wrench that happened to be in my hand as I opened the door (I was in the middle of some DIY plumbing in the hall).

You can get some very effective and not too expensive video monitoring systems these days that can be used inside and/or outside, and we’re probably going to get one for the front garden & path. Different systems suit different people’s layouts, but even a dummy camera would enable you to point out they were being recorded. Whatever you go for has to be mounted out of reach so it can’t be inactivated, and it’s much more difficult if your front door opens directly on to the road in a town since you can only film your own property.

Mark,

Thanks for your good wishes but, apart from being very angry, I was unaffected by it.

It was just unfortunate that we were expecting our adult son home. (He returned when the police were here). The porch light was on for him, otherwise nextdoor's security light would have come on. When I saw the shape through the obscure glass of the door, I thought our son was struggling with his keys, possibly due to holding a huge present for me. So I was off-guard for a second or two. (Double disappointment).

Had the doorbell rung a couple of seconds later, I would have held the beer glass I had been reaching for in my hand, giving me more options!

Harold

Jim Ford
20th December 2018, 10:54 AM
The police may maintain that the ubiquity of CCTV cameras is a deterrence to criminals, but all they have to do is to put their hoods up and they're anonymous and can commit their crimes in broad daylight with impunity. They don't even need lookouts anymore - who would they be looking out for? The possibility of a policeman on patrol appearing round the corner and fingering their collar with a "You're nicked, my beauty!" is a far greater deterrence than CCTV cameras!

Jim

Harold Gough
20th December 2018, 11:05 AM
The police may maintain that the ubiquity of CCTV cameras is a deterrence to criminals, but all they have to do is to put their hoods up and they're anonymous and can commit their crimes in broad daylight with impunity. They don't even need lookouts anymore - who would they be looking out for? The possibility of a policeman on patrol appearing round the corner and fingering their collar with a "You're nicked, my beauty!" is a far greater deterrence than CCTV cameras!

Yes, this one had his hood up but I was able to describe him.

I can't remember when I last saw a patrol car in our road without its blue lights on. That is, apart from the occasional "mother's meeting" gathering at speed traps where they are parked.

Harold

DavyG
20th December 2018, 11:28 AM
Not since 1987 touch wood.

However, my wife received a ticket for driving at 35 MPH in a temporary 30 MPH limit on a three-lane motorway which was clearly a revenue generating exercise. The problem was that the car was being MOT'd at the time but the police were not interested in that fact even though the evidence was overwhelming. Instead they threatened her with a £1,000 fine and six points if she didn't pay up (£60) and hand over her licence for three points.

We even went to the office where the films were kept and viewed the exposures. The weather was very poor at the time (it was mid December) but all three exposures clearly showed the driver and a passenger wearing Evans Halshaw overalls, although their faces could not be identified. The driver was also wearing a red and white woolly hat (Middlesbrough colours). My wife is a Geordie so that was a totally unforgivable insult! :mad:

Crucially, the time was 10.20 am, more than an hour and a half after we had dropped the car off for its service and MOT.

It is a long story but the police really didn't gave a ***** who was driving. They took the attitude that we were responsible for the car at all times, even though the law requires that you hand your car over for an annual MOT test have no control or say over who drives it. Frankly it was all about the money and the stats, which makes a total nonsense of the occasional high-profile cases in which MP's are sent to prison for "perverting the course of justice" over such matters.

Interestingly, the Chief Constable of the same force (Cleveland) had had his own speeding charge dropped a few weeks previously because (in his own words) 'he couldn't remember who was driving the car at the time'. :mad:

Apparently this didn't set a precedent for members of the public who pay the Chief Constable's salary.

I can understand your frustration Nigel, your wife’s experience would appear to be a clear example of abuse of the justice system.

I suspect the threat of a £1000 fine and six points would be enough to deter most people from taking the issue further.

Dave

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 11:40 AM
I can understand your frustration Nigel, your wife’s experience would appear to be a clear example of abuse of the justice system.

I suspect the threat of a £1000 fine and six points would be enough to deter most people from taking the issue further.

Dave

But if speeding is as dangerous as claimed by the authorities who seek to make money out of it why was the Chief Constable allowed to escape a speeding fine when driving his own car?

To the best of my knowledge the Chief was never a Traffic Officer so he could hardly claim to be a 'highly trained police officer' which is their usual line.

Personally I was all for going to Court but my wife said she would rather take the points and pay up. But isn't that itself actually an offence (to knowingly accept the blame on behalf of another person)?

Jax
20th December 2018, 11:50 AM
Personally I was all for going to Court but my wife said she would rather take the points and pay up. But isn't that itself actually an offence (to knowingly accept the blame on behalf of another person)?

Indeed it is Nigel. She should be shackled in irons and dragged before the "beak". But then you would have nobody to cook your meals and make endless drinks. As we all do in such circumstances, best to let her have her own way in the blissful interests of peace and harmony :D

Jax

DavyG
20th December 2018, 11:58 AM
But if speeding is as dangerous as claimed by the authorities who seek to make money out of it why was the Chief Constable allowed to escape a speeding fine when driving his own car?

To the best of my knowledge the Chief was never a Traffic Officer so he could hardly claim to be a 'highly trained police officer' which is their usual line.

Personally I was all for going to Court but my wife said she would rather take the points and pay up. But isn't that itself actually an offence (to knowingly accept the blame on behalf of another person)?

I can’t answer your, very valid, question regarding why the CC was allowed to escape from a speeding fine when driving his own car. The law should apply to everyone even the CC.

Like you, I think I would have taken your wife’s case to court, especially if they had clear photographic evidence that your wife wasn’t the driver and you could prove that your car was being MOT’d at the time the offence was committed.

With regard to driver training, I understand that any Police officer who will be driving a response vehicle and using the lights/sirens would be required to undergo response driver training, I understand that this is currently a three week intensive training course.

Regardless of the standard of training or position, if anyone is caught speeding they should expect to be dealt with fairly and equally, imho.

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with you that speeding isn’t dangerous, I think the numbers of people dying in accidents in which excessive speed is involved speak for themselves, if accurate.

Having driven on German roads and autobahns for a number of years, I would agree that the speed limits on our motorways should be reviewed however, until this happens the current laws still apply.

Apologies to Harold for taking his thread off track from the original subject.

Dave

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 12:00 PM
Indeed it is Nigel. She should be shackled in irons...

I like the sound of that. :D :D :D

Jax
20th December 2018, 12:08 PM
I like the sound of that. :D :D :D

Naughty, naughty Nigel ! *yes

Jax

Harold Gough
20th December 2018, 12:11 PM
Regardless of the standard of training or position, if anyone is caught speeding they should expect to be dealt with fairly and equally,

Not so. In our local paper a few years ago, there was a report of the case of an elderly lady caught on a speed camera. She was found guilty but, because she was actively engaged in lots of charitable work she was let off.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 12:18 PM
Not so. In our local paper a few years ago, there was a report of the case of an elderly lady caught on a speed camera. She was found guilty but, because she was actively engaged in lots of charitable work she was let off.

Harold

Was her elderly husband a member of the same Lodge as the Chief Constable I wonder?

Otto
20th December 2018, 12:30 PM
Speed itself is not dangerous. It's inappropriate speed that's the problem and that can mean too slow as well as too fast. My late cousin was a police traffic officer and thought nothing of driving home from the pub after five pints of Guinness ...

MJ224
20th December 2018, 02:29 PM
Speed itself is not dangerous. It's inappropriate speed that's the problem and that can mean too slow as well as too fast. My late cousin was a police traffic officer and thought nothing of driving home from the pub after five pints of Guinness ...

Agreed.. Road conditions re weather and traffic volume and speed are the deterimates in speed. I am happy ay 120 on the motorway if there is no traffic on the road. (RX8 that is!) sometimes motorways are only safe at 60mph if the volume is huge. Also speed difference between traffic lanes on the motorway is a major factor. if the middle lane doing 60-70, and some twit doing 100 in the third lane, leaves no margin for error. As with crowded town streets, the legal limit is usually 30, but again in many circumstances 30 would be far to fast.

But as with all things, the law can only go so far, the rest is up to common sense...…….(wasat)...*chr

I like Guinness too, but 5 pints would be well over my self imposed limit. But would like to think I am safe with maybe two or three pints, but of course it's not my driving that is the problem, it's that I may not be able to react fast enough for some other road incident...so stick to the limit I reckon..

And Christmas is when the cops are on heat...………...*party.

Not a problem with me.,.,.,.,.

Otto
20th December 2018, 02:39 PM
But would like to think I am safe with maybe two or three pints, but of course it's not my driving that is the problem, it's that I may not be able to react fast enough for some other road incident...so stick to the limit I reckon..


Clarkson once said he reckoned the reaction time of a 21yo with three pints of lager inside him would still be faster than the average sober pensioner!

Jim Ford
20th December 2018, 02:45 PM
I like Guinness too, but 5 pints would be well over my self imposed limit. But would like to think I am safe with maybe two or three pints, but of course it's not my driving that is the problem, it's that I may not be able to react fast enough for some other road incident...so stick to the limit I reckon.

I don't drink a drop if I'm going to drive. If I'm stopped by the cops for any reason and they ask me when I last had an alcoholic drink, I want to be able to say 'I can't remember - maybe a couple of days ago'.

Jim

Harold Gough
20th December 2018, 03:05 PM
I've noted that a number of members feel at home in this thread about criminals and undesirables! :D:D:D

Harold

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 03:36 PM
Clarkson once said he reckoned the reaction time of a 21yo with three pints of lager inside him would still be faster than the average sober pensioner!

We bought our son a Scalextrix set for Christmas when he was about ten years old. We set it up in the Lounge as you do and raced each other round the track.

After Christmas dinner and a bottle of bubbly shared with SWMBO I had great difficulty keeping my car on the track. I wasn't exactly Brahms & Liszt but it demonstrated very clearly the effects of alcohol on judgement and senses.

MJ224
20th December 2018, 03:51 PM
I think was my point, reaction times slow down. Thus I stick to the limit, one pint...………...*chr

Keith-369
20th December 2018, 05:04 PM
Just back from 3 weeks in the sun and trying to catch up on all the threads.

May I ask Nigel -

After the speeding event where your wife got fined etc., did you get copies of the pictures and have a word with the Evans Halshaw management about his workers speeding in someone else's car. You should have got some compensation at least.

Also, nowadays, the car doesn't normally have to be taken on the road for an MOT so either they were using your car for garage business or the event happened a long time ago when brake meters were set on the floor of the car and tested on-road.

*chr
Keith

MJ224
20th December 2018, 09:11 PM
Do Nottingham knickers come into this equation?????????????//

Beginning to sound as if they are penetrated by Keith???...………….

Keith-369
20th December 2018, 09:24 PM
Do Nottingham knickers come into this equation?????????????//

Beginning to sound as if they are penetrated by Keith???...………….

Not penetrated anything for years *cry *ohwell .... so it can't have been me.

Then again, according to SWMBO, it's always me, so .........

MJ224
20th December 2018, 09:27 PM
Sorry Mate, did not want to remind you................*chr

Naughty Nigel
20th December 2018, 09:55 PM
Just back from 3 weeks in the sun and trying to catch up on all the threads.

May I ask Nigel -

After the speeding event where your wife got fined etc., did you get copies of the pictures and have a word with the Evans Halshaw management about his workers speeding in someone else's car. You should have got some compensation at least.

Also, nowadays, the car doesn't normally have to be taken on the road for an MOT so either they were using your car for garage business or the event happened a long time ago when brake meters were set on the floor of the car and tested on-road.

*chr
Keith

This was about ten years ago now Keith, but I am still annoyed by it. :mad:

Apparently the police visited Evans Halshaw themselves, but the staff there denied all knowledge so the police took the easy route and reverted to us, telling us that it was our responsibility.

There should have been no need to take the vehicle off site as all of the necessary equipment was available there; however, it seems that if there is a malfunction, or if they are very busy, the staff will drive to another EH garage for the MOT test. Or, it could have been as simple as staff using a customer's car to go out for a packet of cigarettes or a bacon roll.

When I broached the subject with the Dealer Principle he became stroppy and walked away. We have never been back since.

Interestingly, EH Vauxhall Middlesbrough have been prosecuted by Trading Standards at least twice to my knowledge. The newspaper reports can be found online.

We had problems ourselves with clutch judder on an Astra. (This is a well known problem and is only resolved by fitting different clutch and pressure plates.)

EH told us they had replaced the clutch under warranty during a routine service when they hadn't, and by the time we realised they hadn't replaced it the car had gone over 18,000 miles so Vauxhall UK refused to repair it on the grounds that clutches are a 'wear and tear item'. Only the threat of court proceedings after more than a year of hassle brought them to heel. :mad:

(EH is part of the Pendragon Group which includes Stratstones, Quicks and several others.)

Keith-369
21st December 2018, 11:18 AM
Sorry Mate, did not want to remind you................*chr

Nah ... you weren't to know. *sob *sob *cry *cry

Keith-369
21st December 2018, 11:28 AM
This was about ten years ago now Keith, but I am still annoyed by it. :mad:

Apparently the police visited Evans Halshaw themselves, but the staff there denied all knowledge so the police took the easy route and reverted to us, telling us that it was our responsibility.

There should have been no need to take the vehicle off site as all of the necessary equipment was available there; however, it seems that if there is a malfunction, or if they are very busy, the staff will drive to another EH garage for the MOT test. Or, it could have been as simple as staff using a customer's car to go out for a packet of cigarettes or a bacon roll.

When I broached the subject with the Dealer Principle he became stroppy and walked away. We have never been back since.

Interestingly, EH Vauxhall Middlesbrough have been prosecuted by Trading Standards at least twice to my knowledge. The newspaper reports can be found online.

We had problems ourselves with clutch judder on an Astra. (This is a well known problem and is only resolved by fitting different clutch and pressure plates.)

EH told us they had replaced the clutch under warranty during a routine service when they hadn't, and by the time we realised they hadn't replaced it the car had gone over 18,000 miles so Vauxhall UK refused to repair it on the grounds that clutches are a 'wear and tear item'. Only the threat of court proceedings after more than a year of hassle brought them to heel. :mad:

(EH is part of the Pendragon Group which includes Stratstones, Quicks and several others.)


Thanks for the extra info, Nigel, it puts things into perspective now. I can see why you are still annoyed.

I have heard rumours about EH. Someone once told me that the best way to use EH is, when not knowing which car to buy, go to them and test drive every car you fancy then, when you have made your final choice, walk away and buy from someone else.

Naughty Nigel
21st December 2018, 11:49 AM
Thanks for the extra info, Nigel, it puts things into perspective now. I can see why you are still annoyed.

I have heard rumours about EH. Someone once told me that the best way to use EH is, when not knowing which car to buy, go to them and test drive every car you fancy then, when you have made your final choice, walk away and buy from someone else.

Like so many such organisations Evans Halshaw is warm and cuddly until they get your money. From that point forward they treat customers with utter contempt until it is time to buy another car.

This is one of the reasons that we only renew our cars about once every ten years, and then only if absolutely necessary!

This seems to be a growing trend amongst mass market industries including energy, telecoms and housebuilding.

Darkroom
21st December 2018, 12:04 PM
Like so many such organisations Evans Halshaw is warm and cuddly until they get your money. From that point forward they treat customers with utter contempt until it is time to buy another car.

This is one of the reasons that we only renew our cars about once every ten years, and then only if absolutely necessary!

This seems to be a growing trend amongst mass market industries including energy, telecoms and housebuilding.

It's only going to get worse Nigel, once the big boys have knocked all the smaller firms out of business. Some years ago, we bought a brand new Mitsubishi from a small local dealership, The vehicle had a £1200 cash back offer from Mitsubishi. For some unknown reason Mitsubishi were refusing to honor the cash back for several weeks after the purchase. The private dealer paid us the £1200 from his own funds *yes

Somehow I can't imagine Evans Halshaw doing the same :D


Darkroom

Naughty Nigel
21st December 2018, 12:12 PM
It's only going to get worse Nigel, once the big boys have knocked all the smaller firms out of business.



This is one of the reasons I refuse to use Amazon unless all else fails. After all they are hardly likely to contribute to high street shop workers' unemployment benefits through UK Corporation Tax.

Ricoh
21st December 2018, 12:45 PM
Back to the theme of the OP, if I may. We're now coming to the begging season again (Hloween begging has been and gone, thankfully) and the begging-by-song usually starts after dark for some strange reason (parents sending or allowing their kids out after dark but won't let them walk home from school - amazing logic). Is it best to keep the door locked or open and pay the ransom to make them bugger off?

Otto
21st December 2018, 12:48 PM
I would ignore them, same as I do at Hallowe'en. Fortunately living where I do means that hardly any of them bother to come here anyway!

Darkroom
21st December 2018, 12:55 PM
Back to the theme of the OP, if I may. We're now coming to the begging season again (Hloween begging has been and gone, thankfully) and the begging-by-song usually starts after dark for some strange reason (parents sending or allowing their kids out after dark but won't let them walk home from school - amazing logic). Is it best to keep the door locked or open and pay the ransom to make them bugger off?

If you keep the door locked, make sure your car isn't on the drive. Same applies if you keep it open but fail to meet the expected ransom fee. At least last year it was only raw eggs all over the windows. :mad:

Darkroom

Harold Gough
21st December 2018, 01:04 PM
Back to the theme of the OP, if I may.

You rebel!



We're now coming to the begging season again

It's all the year round here by the shops. Waitrose has some Eastern European looking man, with a very Crufts-qualifying dog, on the path to/from the car park.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
21st December 2018, 01:11 PM
We're now coming to the begging season again (Hloween begging has been and gone, thankfully) and the begging-by-song usually starts after dark for some strange reason (parents sending or allowing their kids out after dark but won't let them walk home from school - amazing logic). Is it best to keep the door locked or open and pay the ransom to make them bugger off?

I have a better idea. *yes

Try to recruit them for the choir. That way we'll never see them again. ;)

TimP
21st December 2018, 05:09 PM
(parents sending or allowing their kids out after dark but won't let them walk home from school - amazing logic).

I think that’s cos of all the 4x4 women drivers on the school run.....oh! wait........

Naughty Nigel
21st December 2018, 05:18 PM
I think that’s cos of all the 4x4 women drivers on the school run.....oh! wait........

Ahh but they don't drive to school for their children's benefit; it is to show off their 4x4's to the other mothers driving 4x4's. :rolleyes:

Jax
21st December 2018, 05:38 PM
You must live in posh areas. The equivalent to a 4x4 on the school run round here is a pedal tricycle towing a 2 seater kiddie carrier.

Jax

TimP
21st December 2018, 07:55 PM
You must live in posh areas. The equivalent to a 4x4 on the school run round here is a pedal tricycle towing a 2 seater kiddie carrier.

Jax

Really? How far ‘ooop north’ do you live for goodness sake?

Jax
21st December 2018, 10:03 PM
Really? How far ‘ooop north’ do you live for goodness sake?

Who mentioned up north ? :)

Jax