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wornish
13th November 2018, 10:13 PM
Very disturbing but its the world today.

Puts things in perspective and our MP's are no where ready for this to happen.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-13/its-coming

TimP
14th November 2018, 07:50 AM
Boom and bust, rinse, repeat.

Why does every company expect to increase profit year on year. It can’t continue and ultimately the company risks failing entirely. Surely jobs like Starbucks are low wage, temporary type jobs anyways, no-one surely makes a career there (managers possibly, but some of them are only 10 yet think they ere entitled to god knows what)

Boom, bust, rinse, repeat.

wornish
14th November 2018, 07:53 AM
Boom and bust, rinse, repeat.

Why does every company expect to increase profit year on year. It can’t continue and ultimately the company risks failing entirely. Surely jobs like Starbucks are low wage, temporary type jobs anyways, no-one surely makes a career there (managers possibly, but some of them are only 10 yet think they ere entitled to god knows what)

Boom, bust, rinse, repeat.

Totally agree, the ups and downs seem to be getting bigger in each direction.

Jim Ford
14th November 2018, 09:31 AM
I can't remember where I saw it but it was about a year ago that I saw a prediction that we're heading for another 2008 type crash. I can't understand why because Gordon Brown, who is blamed by many for the crash, is no longer in charge of the economy!

Jim

TimP
14th November 2018, 10:24 AM
Jim, just wait for Corbyns lot to get in. Diane Abbott for chancellor??

To quote the title of another long running thread...... actually I’m sure everyone can guess what it is.

Dewi9
14th November 2018, 06:07 PM
Many moons ago I attended a course run by the DWP intended for jobseekers' to become self employed. All aspects of running a business were covered but the continuous mantra was 'Always Grow Your Business'.


You HAD to increase your 'customer base' through advertising and 'doorstepping' (which was banned as 'cold calling'. You HAD to increase your turnover / profits year on year (a must) and so on.


Well I never managed it but can see that the same mantra is gospel to many companies today.


The result is ever increasing prices for goods, or fares for transportation, or cost of utilities. All of which benefits the Company Owners / Shareholders almost entirely.


As has been suggested earlier, where will it end ? Just how is 'Mr Average' supposed to keep managing to pay his way ?


It is certainly some puzzle.


David

Jim Ford
14th November 2018, 08:54 PM
You HAD to increase your 'customer base' through advertising and 'doorstepping' (which was banned as 'cold calling'. You HAD to increase your turnover / profits year on year (a must) and so on.

Very many years ago there was a dramatised documentary about an American life insurance company. The company was in the process of computerising its accounts, but hadn't completed the process when it needed to publish its latest accounts showing growth in the business. They basically took a guess at the growth, but unfortunately the life insurance business suffered a downturn at that point and the growth figures were far too high.

The following year they again needed to show further growth, and the figures were again 'cooked'. This went on with each year showing non-existent growth on top of the previous year and it became apparent that the company's trading would soon exceed the GDP of the U.S.!

The process descended into farce (you need to see the whole documentary to believe it!) and eventually the FBI stepped in and arrested those responsible. They also 'arrested' the company's computer!

Jim

Bikie John
14th November 2018, 09:58 PM
Very many years ago there was a dramatised documentary about an American life insurance company. The company was in the process of computerising its accounts, but hadn't completed the process when it needed to publish its latest accounts showing growth in the business. They basically took a guess at the growth, but unfortunately the life insurance business suffered a downturn at that point and the growth figures were far too high.

The following year they again needed to show further growth, and the figures were again 'cooked'. This went on with each year showing non-existent growth on top of the previous year and it became apparent that the company's trading would soon exceed the GDP of the U.S.!

The process descended into farce (you need to see the whole documentary to believe it!) and eventually the FBI stepped in and arrested those responsible. They also 'arrested' the company's computer!

Jim

Gosh, that awakened a distant memory. But until I read the Wiki entry I hadn't realised how distant - the film was made in 1976 and i think the original case was in 1974:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Billion_Dollar_Bubble

John

Harold Gough
15th November 2018, 07:38 AM
I have read this book. I suggest everybody should do so:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Growth-Delusion-Wealth-Well-Being-Nations-ebook/dp/B075D77ZR3/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Harold

Harold Gough
15th November 2018, 07:40 AM
Diane Abbott for chancellor??

She has promised to double her calculating ability by remaining barefoot when in office.

Harold

TimP
15th November 2018, 08:08 AM
She has promised to double her calculating ability by remaining barefoot when in office.

Harold

Excellent!

I doubt she’d have got the bit about it doubling though, too complex a calc.

Naughty Nigel
15th November 2018, 09:26 AM
Very many years ago there was a dramatised documentary about an American life insurance company. The company was in the process of computerising its accounts, but hadn't completed the process when it needed to publish its latest accounts showing growth in the business. They basically took a guess at the growth, but unfortunately the life insurance business suffered a downturn at that point and the growth figures were far too high.

The following year they again needed to show further growth, and the figures were again 'cooked'. This went on with each year showing non-existent growth on top of the previous year and it became apparent that the company's trading would soon exceed the GDP of the U.S.!

The process descended into farce (you need to see the whole documentary to believe it!) and eventually the FBI stepped in and arrested those responsible. They also 'arrested' the company's computer!

Jim

That is not too far from the truth.

I worked for a big corporate and every year we had to assess our potential liabilities (with regard to customer complaints) so accounts could decide whether to post them against this year's or next year's accounts.

The amounts involved were seemingly trivial, (£hundreds of thousands rather than £millions) but we were told that 'the city analysts liked to see consistency rather than peaks and troughs' and so the farce continued.

I was made redundant in 1993 along with technical support staff all around Europe - because our division had only made a profit of £213 million against a projected profit of £220 million. This was due in part to a minor recession but more because of unrealistic forecasting to please the same city analysts.

Their logic was that Technical Service was not a profit generating operation so the costs of running it would be saved. In the event I made damned sure that it cost them far more than they saved! :D

Some years later I was at the Guinness stand at Southampton Boat Show when I was accosted by one of their directors. We had both had a couple by this stage when he slurred "have you any idea how much money you have cost my company [in lost sales]?" "No" I replied, "but just think how much money you saved by making me redundant". :D

TimP
15th November 2018, 11:15 AM
Without decent technical support (and in my case, field service engineers) the sales people would sell next to nothing yet who got all the huge bonuses (boni?) and foreign trips, it certainly wasn’t us lowly engineers.

Naughty Nigel
15th November 2018, 11:56 AM
Without decent technical support (and in my case, field service engineers) the sales people would sell next to nothing yet who got all the huge bonuses (boni?) and foreign trips, it certainly wasn’t us lowly engineers.

This was a highly technical business built on excellent technical service across the board. But of course the city analysts didn't let that inconvenient fact get in the way, even assuming they had looked that closely at the spreadsheet in the first place.

Even if the business didn't want to retain a high level of technical service those staff who were displaced could have been offered roles elsewhere and their expertise retained, but that was never an option.

Courtaulds de-recruitment process was legendary. They always made staff redundant in small numbers on a Thursday afternoon so that nobody would realise who was missing until the next week, and so that the locals newspapers didn't report anything. (Large scale redundancies always attract negative publicity.)

I was basically told that I was on the scrapheap, that after my three-months notice period I was free to do whatever I wanted and that I was so insignificant that nothing I could do would ever affect the company. I took this as a personal challenge! :D

I asked whether I would have use of my company car for the three month notice period. Personnel asked why I would want it? What a dumb question. :confused:

I was then frisked, my pockets emptied of anything that could be sensitive and was escorted off site by two security staff. :mad:

In hindsight they did me an enormous favour but I remain angry to this day about the way I and others were treated on that Thursday afternoon. :(

Jim Ford
15th November 2018, 01:13 PM
Rolls-Royce leased the Leavesden site from the MOD. It made small gas turbine engines for helicopters. In 1992 the managing director called everybody (about 2000 people) into the canteen and announced that they were closing the site, and in the same breath stated that they had bought the site (£5 million IIRC). There was literally laughter - from those that had been told they were losing their jobs - at the unashamed asset stripping!

The site was subsequently sold to Warner Studios, also for offices and housing developments - obviously at a huge profit for RR, making far more than could be made making aircraft engines, and without the nuisance of employing people.

It was an evil place and I was glad to see the back of it!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
15th November 2018, 01:17 PM
Rolls-Royce leased the Leavesden site from the MOD. It made small gas turbine engines for helicopters. In 1992 the managing director called everybody (about 2000 people) into the canteen and announced that they were closing the site, and in the same breath stated that they had bought the site (£5 million IIRC). There was literally laughter - from those that had been told they were losing their jobs - at the unashamed asset stripping!

The site was subsequently sold to Warner Studios, also for offices and housing developments - obviously at a huge profit for RR, making far more than could be made making aircraft engines, and without the nuisance of employing people.

It was an evil place and I was glad to see the back of it!

Jim

Doesn't surprise me in the least. :(

Jim Ford
15th November 2018, 02:49 PM
Gosh, that awakened a distant memory. But until I read the Wiki entry I hadn't realised how distant - the film was made in 1976 and i think the original case was in 1974:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Billion_Dollar_Bubble


Thanks for remembering it and the link. It's on YouTube and you can download it for viewing offline with youtube-dl, which is a python script and may be available for OS'es other than Linux.

Jim

Naughty Nigel
15th November 2018, 04:08 PM
Many moons ago I attended a course run by the DWP intended for jobseekers' to become self employed. All aspects of running a business were covered but the continuous mantra was 'Always Grow Your Business'.

You HAD to increase your 'customer base' through advertising and 'doorstepping' (which was banned as 'cold calling'. You HAD to increase your turnover / profits year on year (a must) and so on.

Well I never managed it but can see that the same mantra is gospel to many companies today.

The result is ever increasing prices for goods, or fares for transportation, or cost of utilities. All of which benefits the Company Owners / Shareholders almost entirely.

As has been suggested earlier, where will it end ? Just how is 'Mr Average' supposed to keep managing to pay his way ?

It is certainly some puzzle.

David

Problems started in the 1980's if I remember when businesses adopted the practice of charging 'what the market would stand' rather than what the product or service was actually worth.

Individually you may well think that an iPhone X is worth your hard earned £1,200 even though the factory gate cost is probably less than $50 USD. Unfortunately the same principle applies to almost every product and service going nowadays, including cars, cameras, houses and hotel rooms which is why the cost of living has become so high in this country, and why the rich are becoming obscenely rich on the proceeds!

If you don't believe this please explain why the exact same products are often available much more cheaply in other countries? (The price differences cannot be explained by local taxes.)

Also, why do tech and software companies feel the need to lock their products so they cannot be purchased more cheaply abroad and then brought back to the UK?

Jim Ford
15th November 2018, 04:49 PM
In the 80's I helped to run a youth group in the hall of a local school. The headteacher and governing body considered that we were doing a useful community service and charged us a concessionary rate.

The government decided that schools should charge a market rate. It was far more than we could afford on the kids 50p subscription - so we moved premises!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
15th November 2018, 05:02 PM
In the 80's I helped to run a youth group in the hall of a local school. The headteacher and governing body considered that we were doing a useful community service and charged us a concessionary rate.

The government decided that schools should charge a market rate. It was far more than we could afford on the kids 50p subscription - so we moved premises!

Jim

I have heard the same from elsewhere, but I think Schools are allowed to let outside organisations use facilities FOC. Likewise charities are not allowed to let out rooms to other charities for less than a commercial rate even if they share the same objectives. Something to do with EU competition rules I believe.

drmarkf
15th November 2018, 07:27 PM
Interesting.

The charity the local branch of which I chair gets the use of a really nice nearby school hall gratis a few times a year. We hold fundraising events like quizzes and lectures there.

This is a fee-paying school, and they say they are encouraged to support local charities as part of their charitable status.

For several reasons I do have serious issues about fee-paying schools having charitable status (with the result that public money benefits the already privileged and potentially dim, rather than helping to educate the underprivileged and bright for their and the UK's benefit), but when they are helpful and generous like this it does help the community.