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wornish
10th October 2018, 10:22 AM
Politicians of all major parties claim our NHS is the envy of the world.

This is obviously not true. The UK has just dropped 14 places from 21 to number 35 in world rankings of Health Care efficiency scores. The US is near the bottom.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-19/u-s-near-bottom-of-health-index-hong-kong-and-singapore-at-top

Walti
10th October 2018, 10:42 AM
I think the model of the NHS is still the best - however hard our politicians try to F*** it up...

The constant sniping at the NHS by our politicians is verging on the obscene!

Zuiko
10th October 2018, 10:43 AM
The data used for this ranking relies mainly upon spending as a percentage of GDP, linked to life expectancy. It takes no account of how accessible the healthcare is to all, or if it is based upon individual ability to pay. As such it is deeply flawed and other, more relevant measures would undoubtedly place the NHS much higher.

Zuiko
10th October 2018, 10:48 AM
I think the model of the NHS is still the best - however hard our politicians try to F*** it up...

The constant sniping at the NHS by our politicians is verging on the obscene!

I agree, although I must say I have a tiny bit of cautious optimism that Matt Hancock will prove to be a better Health Secretary than Jeremy Hunt was ever likely to be.

pdk42
10th October 2018, 01:59 PM
It's mostly about cash. Given how much we spend per head of capita, we get way more than we deserve.

RobEW
10th October 2018, 07:36 PM
The NHS is very effective at directing resources to those who need them most, rather than pandering to the "worried well", or doing more for those with insurance than those without. It is also very good at negotiating good deals with drug companies etc, due to its considerable financial muscle. As a result the NHS does very well indeed in some forms of international comparison, depending on the exact measures used.

This report https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-international-comparisons mentions of few of the complexities of making international comparisons. For instance the low number of MRI scanners per head might be thought to be a bad sign for the UK, but if people who really need scans get them done quickly enough then that would be a more useful measure. But harder to measure.

TimP
10th October 2018, 07:54 PM
It is also very good at negotiating good deals with drug companies etc, due to its considerable financial muscle.



Seriously?? Not according to anecdotal evidence about the cost of common drugs it ainít. And if itís anything like the rest of procurement in the public sector itís seriously f***ed. The people in buying positions donít really have a clue what things cost and the suppliers take full advantage of this and line their pockets accordingly.
Good deals with drug companies? I wish.
Donít even get me started on the huge waste of money that is NHS IT procurement. Utterly hopeless and wasting millions.

RobEW
10th October 2018, 08:12 PM
Sure you can pick out things to critique, based on anecdotal observations amplified by those who hate socialised medicine, but the bigger picture on overall effectiveness favours the NHS. https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Procurement and delivery of huge IT projects seems to be problematical whoever commissions them, but public sector failures hit the headlines more than private companies (except when people bank accounts won't work).

NHS gets lots of drugs and other goods and services at a fraction of the price paid by the USA.

wornish
10th October 2018, 08:38 PM
Interesting article I read today(won't say where) It says epipens cost the NHS approx £50 for a pack of two. In the US the cost is $750 for exactly the same.

Jim Ford
11th October 2018, 07:34 AM
Interesting article I read today(won't say where) It says epipens cost the NHS approx £50 for a pack of two. In the US the cost is $750 for exactly the same.

You've obviously not seen Michael Moore's 'Sicko' - it's full of the same sort of thing and many much worse!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
11th October 2018, 09:02 AM
It's mostly about cash. Given how much we spend per head of capita, we get way more than we deserve.

We probably do, but there is still a lot of scope for improving efficiency and cutting waste.

As an example, my niece, who is a SRN specialising in dementia care is unable to take bloods from patients because in all her years of training and university has never been trained to do it.

She has consistently requested the training but this has been refused owing to her speciality. She therefore has to request a doctor or nurse from another part of the hospital to take bloods from an often confused or anxious patient.

Meanwhile, our daughter, who is at Veterinary college was taught how to take bloods in her first term at Uni and has already had to put this into practice in her work placement. :confused:

Homer Simpson
18th October 2018, 10:58 AM
We have friends who moved to USA about 25 years ago. He had a very good job which naturally included excellent health insurance cover for the whole family.

Over the years they have "suffered" from a variety of illnesses (and have had costly treatment) that strangely are non existent in the UK.

My wife (a nurse practitioner) finds it all rather amusing.

TimP
18th October 2018, 11:25 AM
Isn’t one of the problems with most work related health insurance in the US that it stops upon retirement? Some jobs will let it continue but possibly only the more senior positions?
We’ve got US friends who sometimes join us on trips and have one medium size holdall literally full of various meds. Unbelievable really.

Jim Ford
18th October 2018, 12:00 PM
Isnít one of the problems with most work related health insurance in the US that it stops upon retirement?

The other problems is that if you become too ill to work, or you're sacked because of a chronic illness, you can't get cover again because you've got a pre-existing condition.

Jim

TimP
18th October 2018, 01:04 PM
The other problems is that if you become too ill to work, or you're sacked because of a chronic illness, you can't get cover again because you've got a pre-existing condition.

Jim

Talk about a no win situation.

Wally
18th October 2018, 03:13 PM
Isn’t one of the problems with most work related health insurance in the US that it stops upon retirement? Some jobs will let it continue but possibly only the more senior positions? ... Unbelievable really.

Apparently, it can also apply here in the UK.

A friend, here in Durham, in mid Sepember, almost died due to coughing and choking at his birthday party meal. A complete stranger, having a meal at another table in the restaurant, saved his life. He has since been diagnosed he has cancer of the oesophagus and will require surgery etc. At the end of this month he will be retired and the company private medical care will end and informed he will revert back to be treated under the NHS.


In fairness to the NHS, he was given 'embargo appointments' and has been through the hoops and now awaits results etc., prior to beginning treatment / surgery.

TimP
18th October 2018, 03:27 PM
It might be possible to continue with the private care, certainly worth him checking with both his employer and the provider, or even a union if he’s a member. Obviously it will cost but worth considering perhaps, given the circumstances.

pandora
27th October 2018, 07:39 PM
According to a US based study, Australia comes in second after UK.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/australian-healthcare-ranked-second-best-in-developed-world/8716326
Oddly enough, WHO doesn't give us a mention - so much for WHO ... :shrug:
Other studies rank France #1.
I can't complain, as an age pensioner, free hearing aids and service, free dental, all Australian citizens are entitled to free medical and public hospital care where you may not be on the books for too long! :D (private health cover provides members with a private hospital care and choice of doctor, etc.}

Gate Keeper
28th October 2018, 08:34 AM
Apparently, it can also apply here in the UK.

A friend, here in Durham, in mid Sepember, almost died due to coughing and choking at his birthday party meal. A complete stranger, having a meal at another table in the restaurant, saved his life. He has since been diagnosed he has cancer of the oesophagus and will require surgery etc. At the end of this month he will be retired and the company private medical care will end and informed he will revert back to be treated under the NHS.


In fairness to the NHS, he was given 'embargo appointments' and has been through the hoops and now awaits results etc., prior to beginning treatment / surgery.

I would like the NHS to be a model envied throughout the world.

Your friend......Cancer diagnosis and treatment is a priority in the NHS and it is fast tracked. I realise it is a difficult and very stressful time for him, but if he wants to keep his private health cover.

He should make the change now and inform the insurance company before they terminate the policy. He can ring them or if he is too ill, a nominated relative can do this for him.

His premiums could go up according to his age and medical history. If he has a break from the insurance, he could find it difficult to get the cover he needs. Insurance companies don’t like breaks, they like continuity. They can charge high premiums for taking the risk with age and history.

I write from experience. I am 63 and living abroad in a 3rd world country, I have to pay a well known private health care scheme for the past 10+ years and so I have some insight into how they work. It’s all about getting the right cover and there are various levels of cover and ways of reducing premiums he can discuss with them. What shocking news he has Cancer of the Oesophagus, a difficult time for everyone.

The thing with private health care, one has no cancellations and treatment is with top consultants, some treatments and drugs are available to subscribers and not available to NHS users. Some companies will pay for experimental treatments and some won’t.

On Tuesday, I am seeing a vascular surgeon privately in an NHS London hospital. Half the fee will go to him and the other half will go to the NHS. In August I would have liked to have bought a Panasonic 100-400, but I had pay a health insurance premium of mega bucks instead and as health comes first, I have had to put the Panasonic on a wish list.

Getting back to your friend, let’s hope the cancer has not spread, the diagnosis has been caught in time for him to start treatment and that he does well.