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wornish
21st August 2018, 09:40 AM
The topic of Newspapers influencing how people voted in the Referendum has come up in the Brexit thread.

Here is a chance to anonymously share what papers you read.
Please limit it to the top 3 if you read more than one.

TimP
21st August 2018, 09:46 AM
I was joking about Pravda! Really!

Oh, and you spelt the Guardian correctly - they would not approve!

wornish
21st August 2018, 09:50 AM
I was joking about Pravda! Really!

Oh, and you spelt the Guardian correctly - they would not approve!

I know but given some of the comments on the other thread I thought it a good idea to include it. I tried to pick the list from the latest circulation figures.

TimP
21st August 2018, 10:17 AM
Swap it out for The Star then!
Please don’t read anything (!) into that - but yes, I used to look at the pictures when I worked in a large factory following my apprenticeship!

peak4
21st August 2018, 11:46 AM
Struggling to vote in this one, as I stopped buying a daily paper years ago.
I do get The Guardian on Saturday, but rarely get to read it.

On the other hand, I regularly visit both the BBC and Guardian websites for news, and sometimes watch BBC, Sky, and al Jazeera for news on the TV.

Preferred radio tends to be Radio4, though sometimes switch to Radio2, a local commercial station, or Classic FM if I'm driving.

Given my previous comments about media bias, I wonder where that lot leaves me. :D

wornish
21st August 2018, 11:54 AM
Struggling to vote in this one, as I stopped buying a daily paper years ago.
I do get The Guardian on Saturday, but rarely get to read it.

On the other hand, I regularly visit both the BBC and Guardian websites for news, and sometimes watch BBC, Sky, and al Jazeera for news on the TV.

Preferred radio tends to be Radio4, though sometimes switch to Radio2, a local commercial station, or Classic FM if I'm driving.

Given my previous comments about media bias, I wonder where that lot leaves me. :D

I think if you get your news from a newspapers own website then that counts as "reading" that paper. I do the same can't remember the last time I bought an actual newspaper, but I do read their websites.

Perhaps we need another poll to capture what websites people go to for news. Be interesting to come up with a list. I think it might be quite long. I think the article you linked to that talked about the effect of media bias really explains Brexit more than anything else. The income bracket, education and age arguments were not the main drivers.

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 01:04 PM
Are we really to believe that nobody here reads the Mirror, the Express or the Sun? :confused:

I am less surprised about Pravda but Jim probably hasn't voted yet. ;)

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 01:07 PM
I was joking about Pravda! Really!

Oh, and you spelt the Guardian correctly - they would not approve!

No you didn't. The correct spelling is Grauniad.

So who is going to own up to reading the Daily Wail?

TimP
21st August 2018, 01:12 PM
So who is going to own up to reading the Daily Wail?

I’m wondering too. Vile rag.

wornish
21st August 2018, 01:17 PM
No you didn't. The correct spelling is Grauniad.

So who is going to own up to reading the Daily Wail?

That was me I already admitted it. I also read the Guardian to get the alternative view.

Judging by the votes so far I now clearly see where the responses on Brexit are coming from. Yes, I am trying to fight the leave corner but am clearly outnumbered. Perhaps I should just give in and vote to remain:D

TimP
21st August 2018, 03:19 PM
Don’t think of it as the Leave corner, think of it as the democracy corner - Cameron, sorry, Dave called the referendum, said he’d stick with us through whatever happened, the people, rightly or wrongly voted to leave, so if we value our democracy we should just get on and leave and make a proper job of it, not all the faffing about that’s going on. It’ll be the idiot politicians who screw it up, not the actual thing that was voted for.

TimP
21st August 2018, 03:20 PM
Saying that, there’s no excuse to read the Daily Mail, not in a civilized and enlightened society.

Dewi9
21st August 2018, 03:59 PM
Where is the 'i' newspaper ?


David

wornish
21st August 2018, 04:03 PM
Where is the 'i' newspaper ?


David

Read post #3,

CJJE
21st August 2018, 04:17 PM
Read post #3,

But The Independent is only found online, while The i is the one bought in shops??

I read both, so my answer is still valid!

wornish
21st August 2018, 04:55 PM
This about sums it up. You can replace the word aristocracy with establishment to bring it more up to date.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1993/democracy.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/100018)

Keith-369
21st August 2018, 07:40 PM
I haven't bought a newspaper in years. The only time I see one is when I'm waiting for my takeaway to be prepared :)

So, do I tick ' non of these' (this suggests that I do read a newspaper, just not one of these) or do I just not tick anything? *chr

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 09:23 PM
I haven't bought a newspaper in years. The only time I see one is when I'm waiting for my takeaway to be prepared :)

So, do I tick ' non of these' (this suggests that I do read a newspaper, just not one of these) or do I just not tick anything? *chr

Yu don't get fish and chips in newspaper now either. ;)

Jim Ford
21st August 2018, 09:54 PM
Saying that, there’s no excuse to read the Daily Mail, not in a civilized and enlightened society.

I've probably posted it elsewhere:

I trod on a Daily Mail the other day and had to find some dog poo to wipe it off!

Jim

badlywornroy
22nd August 2018, 06:55 AM
Another one here who reads ihe daily ‘i’ but not listed.

TimP
22nd August 2018, 11:12 AM
Yu don't get fish and chips in newspaper now either. ;)

An early effective form of recycling, sadly now missed. F&C locally comes in dreadful plastic tray things, then wrapped in numerous sheets of clean white paper. The waste is truly scary. No wonder the planet is Donald Ducked.

wornish
22nd August 2018, 09:14 PM
Another one here who reads ihe daily ‘i’ but not listed.

Thats because it didn't register on the top circulation list 2017. At least you made it clear what you read - thanks.

Jim Ford
22nd August 2018, 10:02 PM
Hello - I see we've got another Daily Mail reader furtively scuttling into the stats.!

;)

Jim

TimP
23rd August 2018, 07:32 AM
Thats because it didn't register on the top circulation list 1917. At least you made it clear what you read - thanks.

1917? I’m younger that I thought!

TimP
23rd August 2018, 07:33 AM
Hello - I see we've got another Daily Mail reader furtively scuttling into the stats.!

;)

Jim

Hunt them down!

(Maybe it’s an on-line reader who likes to moan about the ‘sidebar of shame’!)

wornish
23rd August 2018, 07:35 AM
1917? I’m younger that I thought!

Shows how time flies when your having fun.

TimP
23rd August 2018, 08:20 AM
Shows how time flies when your having fun.

Oh I dunno, the fun seemed to stop long before I hit 100!

TimP
23rd August 2018, 08:21 AM
Thinking about it, has there ever been an age (or year of birth) poll on here?

Jim Ford
23rd August 2018, 09:13 AM
Thinking about it, has there ever been an age (or year of birth) poll on here?

Yeah - go for it.

There could even be a box 'Methuselah's My Younger Brother'!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 09:16 AM
Yeah - go for it.

There could even be a box 'Methuselah's My Younger Brother'!

Jim

I met Methuselah on the X20 to Durham not so long ago. He saw me looking at my watch and said "I was a clean shaven young man when I got on this bus at Sunderland. Now look at me." :D

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 09:31 AM
Locking or deleting threads may well satisfy the need to feel in control but it denies the right to reply and allows indefensible comments to go unchallenged.

In my view one of the reasons this country is in such a mess is that we don't discuss politics enough. Censoring political discussion on public fora does nothing to help.

I think it is also telling that administrators are able to make inflammatory comments after threads have been locked, safe in the knowledge that no reply is possible.

wornish
23rd August 2018, 09:35 AM
Thinking about it, has there ever been an age (or year of birth) poll on here?

go on then set one up.

Jim Ford
23rd August 2018, 09:49 AM
Locking or deleting threads may well satisfy the need to feel in control but it denies the right to reply and allows indefensible comments to go unchallenged.

I think it's disappointing that posters whose 'nose have been put out of joint' feel the need to make complaints to the mods.. For myself, if I feel I can't 'take it on the chin' anymore, I'd simply ignore the thread - but it's never arisen. Perhaps my working class background has equipped me with a tougher skin!

Jim

Gate Keeper
23rd August 2018, 09:49 AM
Socialist Worker anyone? https://socialistworker.co.uk

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer :) Seriously I have to get my news on line.

Gate Keeper
23rd August 2018, 09:51 AM
I think it's disappointing that posters whose 'nose have been put out of joint' feel the need to make complaints to the mods.. For myself, if I feel I can't 'take it on the chin' anymore, I'd simply ignore the thread - but it's never arisen. Perhaps my working class background has equipped me with a tougher skin!

Jim

I made no complaints to the mods.... so there :p

Jim Ford
23rd August 2018, 09:57 AM
Socialist Worker anyone? https://socialistworker.co.uk

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer :) Seriously I have to get my news on line.

I'm not a Socialist Worker reader, but have occasionally dipped into it - like in the link about.

I quite like their direct, robust style with no pussy-footing around - unlike much of our effete newspapers.

Jim

Gate Keeper
23rd August 2018, 10:01 AM
I'm not a Socialist Worker reader, but have occasionally dipped into it - like in the link about.

I quite like their direct, robust style with no pussy-footing around - unlike much of our effete newspapers.

Jim

Fair comment sir!

Gate Keeper
23rd August 2018, 10:04 AM
Okay guys, must dash as I am setting off, driving to North Wales. Have fun :D

Jim Ford
23rd August 2018, 10:06 AM
I made no complaints to the mods.... so there :p

So is it a 'cunning plan' by the mods., saying that there have been complaints, in order to have an excuse* to close the thread? I think we should be told!

*Yeah, OK - I know the mods don't need an excuse, but it would look better if they had one.

;)

Jim

Jim Ford
23rd August 2018, 10:09 AM
Okay guys, must dash as I am setting off, driving to North Wales. Have fun :D

What, from Nairobi? Have a safe journey!

;)

Jim

Gate Keeper
23rd August 2018, 10:12 AM
So is it a 'cunning plan' by the mods., saying that there have been complaints, in order to have an excuse* to close the thread? I think we should be told!

*Yeah, OK - I know the mods don't need an excuse, but it would look better if they had one.

;)

Jim

Before I sign out, opportunity permitting, can a mod please affirm I made no complaints about the club or any of the members. Yesterday was banter, had it been a different time after 9pm, I would have told certain members to off themselves to blouse land. Ha! Have fun :D

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 10:31 AM
I think it's disappointing that posters whose 'nose have been put out of joint' feel the need to make complaints to the mods.. For myself, if I feel I can't 'take it on the chin' anymore, I'd simply ignore the thread - but it's never arisen. Perhaps my working class background has equipped me with a tougher skin!

Jim

A few years working in shipyards has equipped me well. Snowflakes need not apply! :D

The oddest places I have worked for politics have been laboratories. There are all manner of academics in there with seriously skewed ideas of the world, but who never see the light of day!

My definition of a laboratory is; a safe haven where academics are protected from the realities of the outside world. Also see 'University'. :D

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 10:39 AM
Socialist Worker anyone? https://socialistworker.co.uk

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer :) Seriously I have to get my news on line.

A group of Socialist Workers used to meet every Saturday morning under the Tunsgate in Guildford High Street when I was a lad. But you had to get there before 11.00 am because that was pub opening time in those days. :D

TimP
23rd August 2018, 12:04 PM
Seriously? People have complained? Snowflakes!!

TimP
23rd August 2018, 12:11 PM
go on then set one up.

Just tried and can’t see what I’m missing! The only mention of poll is at the bottom of ‘Additional Options’ but that’s just a selection, nothing obvious for creating the actual poll, or does that appear when you ‘submit’ the message??

I must be too old for this kind of thing, how ironic.

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 12:11 PM
Mind I'm surprised nobody here reads The Sun for the photographic content. :confused:

Graham_of_Rainham
23rd August 2018, 12:26 PM
Mind I'm surprised nobody here reads The Sun for the photographic content. :confused:

Back in the days of "Page Three", as apprentices we were all skint most of the time, so we raided the bin at the end of the day and stuck the pictures on the locker room wall...


My favourite was "The Perishers" cartoon in the Mirror, and one of the older workers would let me read his copy at the end of the shift.

*chr

wornish
23rd August 2018, 12:32 PM
Just tried and can’t see what I’m missing! The only mention of poll is at the bottom of ‘Additional Options’ but that’s just a selection, nothing obvious for creating the actual poll, or does that appear when you ‘submit’ the message??

I must be too old for this kind of thing, how ironic.

You have to do it by starting a new thread.

So go to Forum Index and select The Lounge
Then click Post New Thread

Enter a Title and the First message usually something describing what its about.

Then further down Click Post a Poll box and also enter the number of options I.e. possible answers you want to show.

Then when you click Submit New Thread it takes you to a new window that allows you to enter all the choices.

Zuiko
23rd August 2018, 01:11 PM
Before I sign out, opportunity permitting, can a mod please affirm I made no complaints about the club or any of the members. Yesterday was banter, had it been a different time after 9pm, I would have told certain members to off themselves to blouse land. Ha! Have fun :D

Happy to oblige, I can confirm that neither you or any other member complained. It was me who was unhappy about the increasingly hostile and personal comments - I have enough experience to know when a thread is about to boil over with the potential to affect the whole site. It can cause a lot of bitterness and also create an impression that we do not want to people who are browsing the site looking for photographic content. Alarm bells were ringing!

I am well aware that some members resent moderation of this type of thread and would prefer it if we permitted a no holds barred free for all, but that would not be in keeping with the main ethos of this forum. If anyone is still unhappy I suggest they start a political discussion on, say, Mu-43.com and see how long it lasts! By comparison, I believe we have a more relaxed and tolerant policy here, but we do reserve the right to intervene when we consider it appropriate, even if we don't always get it right according to some. I make no apologies for that because we act in good faith and it isn't always an easy job.

Ricoh
23rd August 2018, 01:17 PM
Mind I'm surprised nobody here reads The Sun for the photographic content. :confused:
It was a sad day when the Sport and the Sunday Sport went tits-up. :)

Zuiko
23rd August 2018, 01:41 PM
Locking or deleting threads may well satisfy the need to feel in control but it denies the right to reply and allows indefensible comments to go unchallenged.

In my view one of the reasons this country is in such a mess is that we don't discuss politics enough. Censoring political discussion on public fora does nothing to help.

I think it is also telling that administrators are able to make inflammatory comments after threads have been locked, safe in the knowledge that no reply is possible.

When has this happened?

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 02:07 PM
When has this happened?

Last night, after 'Lights Out'. :)

As a more general point I do not think it is right that an Administrator, with administrative privileges and responsibilities should make any political comment on a political thread which has already been closed; whether temporally or permanently. To do so refutes any claims of neutrality.

I have no problem with administrators contributing to a political debate, but they should allow the right to reply and challenge, not to hit ordinary members on the head with a hammer if they disagree with them.

I fully accept the need for moderation, but it should not stifle free speech or prevent robust discussion of political topics provided this is done without hostility.

Zuiko
23rd August 2018, 04:37 PM
Last night, after 'Lights Out'. :)

As a more general point I do not think it is right that an Administrator, with administrative privileges and responsibilities should make any political comment on a political thread which has already been closed; whether temporally or permanently. To do so refutes any claims of neutrality.

I have no problem with administrators contributing to a political debate, but they should allow the right to reply and challenge, not to hit ordinary members on the head with a hammer if they disagree with them.

I fully accept the need for moderation, but it should not stifle free speech or prevent robust discussion of political topics provided this is done without hostility.

Oh, you mean this comment by Graham on the Political thread?

"Something the majority of people seem to agree with is that this “government” is making a complete hash of the process.

The number of “Brexitometers” that show this, is a very clear indication of people’s expectations of failure of the “government”.


I agree it is unfortunate that this was posted after the thread was closed and can only think that Graham did not realise it was closed. I assume that having mod status allows one to do this, I've never tried it myself. Even so, I cannot imagine this post is so controversial that there were members feeling a burning sense of frustration at not being able to reply. Indeed, I'm not aware that anyone has commented on his post, despite the thread being open for most of the day. I certainly think it is a bit strong to liken this incident to "to [mods] hitting ordinary members on the head with a hammer if they disagree with them."

Personally I have always enjoyed constructive debate with you and many others on a range of issues but am feeling less inclined to participate in the current discussion because the thread is causing me so much concern as a mod. Similarly, I've avoided participation in the speeding motorist discussion because 24 years ago my wife was badly injured by a reckless driver careering through our village on the wrong side of the road at twice the speed limit. It's a subject about which I have such strong feelings that I consider it best to hold my tongue. I can't say I'm enjoying the forum at the moment but hey, I do have a job to do and will strive to do it as best I can.

wornish
23rd August 2018, 04:55 PM
In a quality "web based newspaper" - not on the list.

This is so depressing.

https://spectator.us/2018/08/venezuelas-great-socialist-experiment-has-brought-a-country-to-its-knees/

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 05:39 PM
Oh, you mean this comment by Graham on the Political thread?

"Something the majority of people seem to agree with is that this “government” is making a complete hash of the process.

The number of “Brexitometers” that show this, is a very clear indication of people’s expectations of failure of the “government”.


I agree it is unfortunate that this was posted after the thread was closed and can only think that Graham did not realise it was closed. I assume that having mod status allows one to do this, I've never tried it myself. Even so, I cannot imagine this post is so controversial that there were members feeling a burning sense of frustration at not being able to reply. Indeed, I'm not aware that anyone has commented on his post, despite the thread being open for most of the day. I certainly think it is a bit strong to liken this incident to "to [mods] hitting ordinary members on the head with a hammer if they disagree with them."

Personally I have always enjoyed constructive debate with you and many others on a range of issues but am feeling less inclined to participate in the current discussion because the thread is causing me so much concern as a mod. Similarly, I've avoided participation in the speeding motorist discussion because 24 years ago my wife was badly injured by a reckless driver careering through our village on the wrong side of the road at twice the speed limit. It's a subject about which I have such strong feelings that I consider it best to hold my tongue. I can't say I'm enjoying the forum at the moment but hey, I do have a job to do and will strive to do it as best I can.

Thank you John for your thoughts.

Actually I would have replied to Graham's post had I been able to as I disagree with it, but I really couldn't be bothered by the time the thread reopened today. I am actually more surprised that John Heating Man didn't reply to it.

However, I stand by my point that it is wrong for administrators to make political comments on closed threads which ordinary members are unable to respond to.

With regard to speeding, I am very sorry to hear about the accident involving your wife. Incidents like that really bring home how dangerous motor cars are in the wrong hands.

I would never advocate allowing any form of dangerous driving, whether within or outwith the speed limits. However, there is such a thing as 'safe speed', whilst as I am sure you are aware there are some slow drivers who should never be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle!

I also believe passionately that as a driver my eyes are by far the most powerful tools I have for driving safely and avoiding dangerous situations; however, they are useless if permanently focused on the speedometer, which is what the current regime is encouraging.

Rigid adherence to speed limits also causes dangerous bunching on motorways and dual carriageways, even though in most cases drivers' true speed is significantly slower than the limit allows. I have also witnessed dangerous overtaking incidents where it would seem that drivers are more concerned with exceeding the speed limit than avoiding a head on collision.

I think I would agree with you that the Brexit thread has probably run its course. Indeed I am getting rather bored with it now, but it will not die out whilst so many provocative comments are being made by the Remain camp in particular (but not exclusively I accept).

Perhaps the greatest challenge right now is that there doesn't seem to be anything much else to discuss, as evidenced by the eerie quietness after Lights Out in the Brexit thread.

We shall have to find something. :)

Zuiko
23rd August 2018, 06:17 PM
Thank you John for your thoughts.

Actually I would have replied to Graham's post had I been able to as I disagree with it, but I really couldn't be bothered by the time the thread reopened today. I am actually more surprised that John Heating Man didn't reply to it.

However, I stand by my point that it is wrong for administrators to make political comments on closed threads which ordinary members are unable to respond to.

With regard to speeding, I am very sorry to hear about the accident involving your wife. Incidents like that really bring home how dangerous motor cars are in the wrong hands.

I would never advocate allowing any form of dangerous driving, whether within or outwith the speed limits. However, there is such a thing as 'safe speed', whilst as I am sure you are aware there are some slow drivers who should never be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle!

I also believe passionately that as a driver my eyes are by far the most powerful tools I have for driving safely and avoiding dangerous situations; however, they are useless if permanently focused on the speedometer, which is what the current regime is encouraging.

Rigid adherence to speed limits also causes dangerous bunching on motorways and dual carriageways, even though in most cases drivers' true speed is significantly slower than the limit allows. I have also witnessed dangerous overtaking incidents where it would seem that drivers are more concerned with exceeding the speed limit than avoiding a head on collision.

I think I would agree with you that the Brexit thread has probably run its course. Indeed I am getting rather bored with it now, but it will not die out whilst so many provocative comments are being made by the Remain camp in particular (but not exclusively I accept).

Perhaps the greatest challenge right now is that there doesn't seem to be anything much else to discuss, as evidenced by the eerie quietness after Lights Out in the Brexit thread.

We shall have to find something. :)

I accept that the timing of Graham's post was unfortunate but am equally convinced it was unintentional and I have drawn your concerns to his attention.

I know what you mean about motorists who drive too slow, usually the type who have never had an accident but have seen plenty!

Wally
23rd August 2018, 06:52 PM
:D OK! Am i going to be the first to admit, that although I never bought a newspaper, I did find them most useful?

Even at such a tender age, I considered getting rid of two loads of crap with one flush was very eco-friendly. *yes

Harold Gough
28th August 2018, 02:26 PM
Perhaps my working class background has equipped me with a tougher skin!

If you want to develop a really thick skin, become active in a macro forum.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
28th August 2018, 03:25 PM
If you want to develop a really thick skin, become active in a macro forum.

Harold

You should try a 5.00 am 'Blast Inspection' at Camel Laird in the early 1980's.

They would try literally anything, and I mean anything, to stop you from inspecting the steelwork in double bottoms, cofferdams and other confined void spaces.

Maybe they were too thick to realise that crapping inside the access hatches amounted to an automatic rejection, or maybe they really wanted another shift working in the dark confines of one of Her Majesty's warships, but the abuse and threats to supervisors were real!

As it happens, this is one of the reasons why the old Severn Bridge suffered premature corrosion and weakening, but that had more to do with the lack of 'facilities' than deliberate obstruction.

TimP
28th August 2018, 04:41 PM
.......

As it happens, this is one of the reasons why the old Severn Bridge suffered premature corrosion and weakening, but that had more to do with the lack of 'facilities' than deliberate obstruction.

Seriously? Could that explain the recent bridge collapse in Italy?

Naughty Nigel
28th August 2018, 06:44 PM
Seriously? Could that explain the recent bridge collapse in Italy?

Yes, seriously. As I understand the situation there were no 'facilities' at all on the Severn Bridge itself, and as the bridge took shape it was a long and precarious walk in sometimes foul weather conditions to land.

Many of those working in construction are paid on piecework as it were, so why would you spend an hour walking to land?

Ureic acid and other bodily products are known to be corrosive to most commonly used metals including stainless steel, especially if contamination occurs before anticorrosive primers are applied.

Similar problems affect street lighting columns owing to canines leaving their calling cards, but on a much smaller scale.

I don't know much about the Morandi Bridge in Italy but it appears to be more of a modular reinforced concrete construction. As I understand it the theory at present is that steel reinforcement had corroded inside the concrete, and the consequent expansion of rust had fractured the concrete, weakening it. In such structures steel provides tensile strength whilst concrete provides strength in compression. However, the design is such that most of the strength is compressive, and that would have been compromised by fractures.

The bridge is in an elevated position close to the sea so it is highly exposed. There was also a large steelworks in Genoa until very recently on the seaward side which would have provided a corrosive atmosphere. I am counting my blessings on that score because I have crossed that bridge more times than I care to remember, in all sorts of weather throughout the year. (The Morandi Bridge is located on the main coastal route between Genoa and Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport.)

TimP
28th August 2018, 08:12 PM
Father in law worked on the first Severn Bridge. I found a couple of old photos of some precarious looking construction work.

Jim Ford
28th August 2018, 09:46 PM
As I understand it the theory at present is that steel reinforcement had corroded inside the concrete, and the consequent expansion of rust had fractured the concrete, weakening it.

Concrete fence posts go the same way. A couple of ours shed the concrete over about a 250mm section, exposing the rusted steel reinforcing. Once moisture penetrates the concrete, failure is inevitable.

Jim

Naughty Nigel
29th August 2018, 08:09 AM
Concrete fence posts go the same way. A couple of ours shed the concrete over about a 250mm section, exposing the rusted steel reinforcing. Once moisture penetrates the concrete, failure is inevitable.

Jim

Indeed. The usual 'repair' method is to cut out the cracked concrete and to replace it; often cladding the structure with an additional layer of reinforced concrete. We often see motorway bridge supports repaired in this way.

This may work well where the load is almost entirely compressive, (as in motorway bridge supports), but any bending moment will weaken an already weakened structure.

The problem with much of the Morandi Bridge was that it was at a high elevation and overhead, which would have made any such repairs very difficult. I believe it was also principally of concrete construction, whereas similar structures in the UK tend to use more steel.

TimP
29th August 2018, 09:30 AM
Don’t forget all the bodies of Mafia victims added to the mix, that can’t help the strength of concrete!

Harold Gough
29th August 2018, 09:39 AM
Don’t forget all the bodies of Mafia victims added to the mix, that can’t help the strength of concrete!

You have just become a grass! :eek:

Can you swim (with the fishes)?

Harold

TimP
29th August 2018, 10:45 AM
It might explain the extremely messy remnant of Dobbin I guess!

Naughty Nigel
29th August 2018, 11:47 AM
Don’t forget all the bodies of Mafia victims added to the mix, that can’t help the strength of concrete!

Well this is true. The Mafia are said to be heavily involved in the Italian concrete industry!

Equally there are concerns about the Chiswick Flyover in London, where fractures have also been found. X-Ray imaging suggests that there are human body sized cavities in some of the supports, which were cast when the Kray Twins still ruled much of East London.

TimP
29th August 2018, 12:25 PM
But Chiswicks in West London so it couldn’t possibly have been them!

Naughty Nigel
29th August 2018, 12:55 PM
But Chiswicks in West London so it couldn’t possibly have been them!

Well they wouldn't want the bodies on their turf!

TimP
29th August 2018, 01:15 PM
I didn’t know the Chiswick flyover was laid to lawn?

Wally
29th August 2018, 04:51 PM
When I was a lot younger and got out more, I have to confess I read many, many different newspapers.

These day's, I tend to come on here to catch-up with all the latest 'real' news and not the fake stuff. that is so proific.

I do miss reading the various newspapers... almost as much as I miss a fish & chip supper on the way home from the pub. ;)

Naughty Nigel
30th August 2018, 07:12 AM
When I was a lot younger and got out more, I have to confess I read many, many different newspapers.

These day's, I tend to come on here to catch-up with all the latest 'real' news and not the fake stuff. that is so proific.

I do miss reading the various newspapers... almost as much as I miss a fish & chip supper on the way home from the pub. ;)

When I travelled around the UK more I often stopped at a Little Chef and took advantage of a 'free' newspaper there. I could become totally engrossed in a newspaper; any newspaper really for an hour or so until I needed to get moving.

Maybe newspapers were different then?

I still do it on the train if there is a free paper, but rarely seem to get time at home.

wornish
9th December 2018, 08:05 AM
In todays Guardian

" A reader noted that our recipe called “Spaghetti with radicchio, fennel and rosemary” didn’t include spaghetti, fennel or rosemary. The ingredients and method were right, but it should have been titled: Strozzapreti with radicchio and balsamic (1 December, page 9, Feast)."

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/07/corrections-and-clarifications

Jim Ford
9th December 2018, 10:32 AM
In todays Guardian

" A reader noted that our recipe called “Spaghetti with radicchio, fennel and rosemary” didn’t include spaghetti, fennel or rosemary. The ingredients and method were right, but it should have been titled: Strozzapreti with radicchio and balsamic (1 December, page 9, Feast)."

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/07/corrections-and-clarifications

Yeah - a real 'howler'. Fortunately they get the important things right, like Brexit! ;)

Jim

wornish
9th December 2018, 10:50 AM
You believe Carole Cadwalladr *ohwell

She has made three corrections to her story on Brexit data breach and counting.

Tram
9th December 2018, 11:54 AM
Guardian most days, newpaper very rarely on Sunday, but picked up the Observer today when I went out to get a few bits

Jim Ford
9th December 2018, 04:57 PM
You believe Carole Cadwalladr *ohwell

She has made three corrections to her story on Brexit data breach and counting.

She got an award for her journalism recently:

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/journalist/carole-cadwalladr-2/

".... deserves high praise for the quality of her research"

I don't know how many Daily Mail journalists were shortlisted, I don't recognise any of the names. Perhaps you can check.

Jim

TimP
9th December 2018, 04:59 PM
Daily Mail journalists

Warning!

Oxymoron alert!!;)

Jim Ford
9th December 2018, 07:45 PM
Warning!

Oxymoron alert!!;)

At least the Mail doesn't employ a notorious serial liar to write for them, unlike the Telegraph. Boris Johnson - for whom lying is part of his stock in trade.

A couple of years ago Mathew Parris wrote an excoriating article in The Times about Boris Johnson. Here's an excerpt quoted by The Guardian (the original is behind a Times paywall):

Parris, a former aide to Margaret Thatcher, denounced Johnson for alleged dishonesty, vacuity, sexual impropriety and veiled homophobia.

“Somebody has to call a halt to the gathering pretence that if only you’re sufficiently comical in politics you can laugh everything off,” he wrote.

“Incompetence is not funny. Policy vacuum is not funny. A careless disregard for the truth is not funny. Advising old mates planning to beat someone up is not funny. Abortions and gagging orders are not funny. Creeping ambition in a jester’s cap is not funny. Vacuity posing as merriment, cynicism posing as savviness, a wink and a smile covering for betrayal … these things are not funny.”

Parris went on to detail Johnson’s sexual adventures and broken promises, as well as his dismissal from the Times as a correspondent for allegedly making up quotes.

He described the mayor as a “lacklustre” politician, and claims that Johnson was unable to defend his recent claims about the European Union in front of the Treasury select committee.

Referring to that performance, he wrote: “Watch a portrait in miniature of Johnson the politician: underprepared, jolly, sly, dishonest and unapologetic but (and this is the worrying part) horrifyingly vulnerable.

Parris added: “But there’s a pattern to Boris’s life, and it isn’t the lust for office, or for applause, or for susceptible women, that mark out this pattern in red warning ink. It’s the casual dishonesty, the cruelty, the betrayal; and, beneath the betrayal, the emptiness of real ambition: the ambition to do anything useful with office once it is attained.”

And this vile person is poising himself to make a leadership bid when TM goes!

Jim

TimP
9th December 2018, 08:04 PM
Johnson is a complete tosser, the Dail Mail is a vile rag. Sorted!

Naughty Nigel
9th December 2018, 08:23 PM
Johnson is a complete tosser, the Dail Mail is a vile rag. Sorted!

Agreed; but neither Boris Johnson or the Daily Mail are alone in their opprobrium.

These comments would have much more validity if members here were to cast the net a little wider than the Conservative party and the gutter press when venting their vitriolic opinions.

Just a few days ago a member here was highly critical of comments made about Dianne Abbott on the grounds that she has Type 2 Diabetes.

Once again, she is not alone. Teresa May has type 1 Diabetes, but I don't see anyone rushing to her defence.

A broken record soon becomes boring, but sometimes balancing the turntable helps prevent the needle from being stuck in the same groove all the time

TimP
9th December 2018, 08:37 PM
But...but...but.... Corbyn might be a nice, principled man but he couldn’t even lead the horse to the water. Liberals? Who? UKIP?.... ‘nuff said. If any other politician was worth their salt they’d be helping to sort the mess that is Brexit not scoring petty political points.
I’ve said it before ( sorry Rebecca!) but we really do get the politicians we deserve. If the Sun is the best selling newspaper then god help us.

Naughty Nigel
9th December 2018, 09:00 PM
But...but...but.... Corbyn might be a nice, principled man but he couldn’t even lead the horse to the water. Liberals? Who? UKIP?.... ‘nuff said. If any other politician was worth their salt they’d be helping to sort the mess that is Brexit not scoring petty political points.
I’ve said it before ( sorry Rebecca!) but we really do get the politicians we deserve. If the Sun is the best selling newspaper then god help us.

I agree. Right now Labour and the SNP are more interested in forcing a General Election than trying to resolve the Brexit issue in the best interests of the country. Likewise some members of the Conservative party are more interested in mounting a leadership challenge whilst seemingly oblivious to the difficulty of the PM's job right now, and the fact that it is a poisoned chalice.

But where was Jeremy Corbyn in the run up to the Referendum? He has been openly hostile about the EU and has made no secret of the fact that he would rather the UK be out than in. Other Labour MP's have been equally critical of the EU in the past including the late Sir Anthony Wedgwood Benn; but I have yet to see the same sort of vitriol aimed at them by certain members of this forum as Boris and Theresa et al.

Jax
9th December 2018, 09:46 PM
A broken record soon becomes boring, but sometimes balancing the turntable helps prevent the needle from being stuck in the same groove all the time


Rebecca seems to be doing her best to prevent needles being stuck in the same groove :)

Jax

Naughty Nigel
9th December 2018, 09:49 PM
If the Sun is the best selling newspaper then god help us.

To be fair though, how many people buy The Sun to read the news?

The Sun is no more a newspaper than Greggs is a baker's shop nowadays. The Sun is more about entertainment with a bit of scandal and titillation thrown in. (Do they still have Page Three?)

You could make the same argument about people watching Coronation Street or Brookside to keep up to date with current affairs. Or if you want a really unbiased insight into the running of the NHS you could watch Casualty. :rolleyes:

The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that most people buy 'newspapers' to read what they want to hear rather than hard, clinical facts. Members here are justifiably critical of the Mail, Express and Torygraph, but the Mirror and Grauniad are just as biased in the opposite direction, if not more.

wornish
9th December 2018, 09:57 PM
The majority of our MP's from all parties are "jobs worths" riding the politics gravy train.
If we are to survive as a democratic country we need better, but it is not looking good right now.

Jim Ford
9th December 2018, 09:57 PM
. If the Sun is the best selling newspaper then god help us.

There was a 'sea of Suns' at tea break on the workshop floor in Rolls-Royce where I worked!

Jim

wornish
9th December 2018, 10:02 PM
There was a 'sea of Suns' at tea break on the workshop floor in Rolls-Royce where I worked!

Jim

And therefore your point is ? Please expand.:confused:
Should they have all been reading the Guardian ?

Jax
9th December 2018, 10:07 PM
You can't beat The Beano. *chr

And, Gregg's may not be a traditional baker but.... their steak slices are yummy *chr

Jax

Jim Ford
9th December 2018, 10:12 PM
And therefore your point is ? Please expand.:confused:
Should they have all been reading the Guardian ?

I was responding to TimP's comment "If the Sun is the best selling newspaper then god help us." I'm sure he understands the point.

I would have though that it was self-evident! *yes

Jim

Jax
9th December 2018, 10:13 PM
And therefore your point is ? Please expand.:confused:
Should they have all been reading the Guardian ?

I doubt they were actually reading, most likely just looking at the pictures :D

Jax

Naughty Nigel
9th December 2018, 10:34 PM
Gregg's may not be a traditional baker but.... their steak slices are yummy *chr

Jax


I really enjoy their Bacon Rolls from time to time, but my point is that Greggs is no more a baker's shop than the Sun is a newspaper. Both have evolved to fulfil their particular market niche.

Jax
9th December 2018, 10:58 PM
I really enjoy their Bacon Rolls form time to time, but my point is that Greggs is no more a baker's shop than the Sun is a newspaper. Both have evolved to fulfil their particular market niche.

I did actually manage to get your point Nigel *chr

Jax

Graham_of_Rainham
9th December 2018, 11:13 PM
I found this somewhat interesting:

http://www.humantruth.info/uk_newspapers_comparison.html

TimP
10th December 2018, 07:07 AM
There was a 'sea of Suns' at tea break on the workshop floor in Rolls-Royce where I worked!

Jim

Pretty sure I would have ‘read’ the Sun back then along with the newly released Star, but that was 40+ years ago and topless women were far more interesting than any actual news (well, to me they were).

Harold Gough
10th December 2018, 07:15 AM
Pretty sure I would have ‘read’ the Sun back then along with the newly released Star, but that was 40+ years ago and topless women were far more interesting than any actual news (well, to me they were).

As the current news is mostly about Theresa May, be careful what you wish for!

Harold

TimP
10th December 2018, 07:25 AM
As the current news is mostly about Theresa May, be careful what you wish for!

Harold

<shudder>



.

Tram
10th December 2018, 08:02 AM
I like Greggs, all those little horrors have to shut up when mum stuffs a sausage roll dummy in their mouths