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KeithL
17th August 2018, 09:31 AM
Two days ago, Polly Hudson, writing in the Mirror, said that she believes that we are all getting angrier and angrier. She commented that if you say something that someone disagrees with, they start shouting at you, and getting very nasty; make a minor driving mistake, and fists are shaken at you, swearing and retaliatory measures. She was wondering why.

I think she has a point. Could it be the stress of modern living? Could it be the lack of another major war? Is man programmed to fight, and tolerance is a learned reaction?

What do you think?

Walti
17th August 2018, 09:34 AM
It's the heat from the mini heatwave! ;)

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 10:05 AM
Two days ago, Polly Hudson, writing in the Mirror, said that she believes that we are all getting angrier and angrier. She commented that if you say something that someone disagrees with, they start shouting at you, and getting very nasty; make a minor driving mistake, and fists are shaken at you, swearing and retaliatory measures. She was wondering why.

I think she has a point. Could it be the stress of modern living? Could it be the lack of another major war? Is man programmed to fight, and tolerance is a learned reaction?

What do you think?

She does have a point. This something that I have noticed for a good while now.

'Progress' has made our lives much more stressful and complicated, and we seem to have so much more to fit in, including playing with 'essentials' such as Smartphones that we once lived perfectly happily without.

Employers expect more and more in shorter time and at lower cost whilst many people are tracked by GPS or else watched by CCTV or otherwise monitored. Overpopulation and our constant desire to travel means that wherever we go we have to queue, which doesn't fit well with our current need for instant gratification.

At the same time Proletarian Drift has raised personal expectations to unrealistic levels, so many people are left either feeling somehow inadequate, or else in deep debt.

This may be why so many people are now trying to step off of the treadmill and only work enough to support more modest aspirations.

If you are looking to apportion blame I would point to clever marketing, incessant and intrusive advertising and the City's expectations of year on year growth.

Keith-369
17th August 2018, 10:07 AM
Maybe she is just a very annoying person who is also a bad driver ... I don't know ... just guessing. *shrug

I have never had behavior like that directed at me .... so far *eyebrows

Zuiko
17th August 2018, 10:19 AM
I get angry because people make me angry, okay? I mean, it's all these immigrants coming over here stealing our jobs and claiming our benefits while in some of our cities you hardly see a white face these days and this is MY lane, MY lane - bloody cyclists slowing all the traffic up and they don't even pay road tax. I ask you, what is this country coming to? We need to reclaim our country for British people and preserve the British way of life, like 10 pints of lager on a Friday night with a dodgy kebab and a fight on the way home. Do you have a problem with that? Do you?

Ricoh
17th August 2018, 10:28 AM
Sounds good to me Zuiko, apart from the 10 pints and the drunken fighting...

Zuiko
17th August 2018, 10:31 AM
Sounds good to me Zuiko, apart from the 10 pints and the drunken fighting...

Surely those are the best bits? :D

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 10:38 AM
I get angry because people make me angry, okay? I mean, it's all these immigrants coming over here stealing our jobs and claiming our benefits while in some of our cities you hardly see a white face these days and this is MY lane, MY lane - bloody cyclists slowing all the traffic up and they don't even pay road tax. I ask you, what is this country coming to? We need to reclaim our country for British people and preserve the British way of life, like 10 pints of lager on a Friday night with a dodgy kebab and a fight on the way home. Do you have a problem with that? Do you?

You forgot 'one for the road, one for the kerb, and four more for the pavement outside the Chinese takeaway!' :D

You jest John, but I strongly believe there really is a genuine problem. The mental health issues amongst the young in particular and the number of violent road rage incidents would seem to support this view. It seems that ASDA car parks are a particularly dangerous place to be at busy times given the number of violent and even fatal incidents reported.

There is also the matter of regular fatal stabbings which I suspect are not entirely unrelated.

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 11:18 AM
Is man programmed to fight, and tolerance is a learned reaction?

What do you think?

I'm sure tolerance is a learned reaction. People are often fearful of other cultures or groups of people, or even the in-laws! *yes

These fears usually evaporate when opposing groups meet and talk to one-another, and realise that they are all human after all. Northern Ireland is perhaps a good example here. I'm not so sure about Sunderland and Newcastle supporters at a derby match though. :(

The problem is that we no longer talk to one another face to face. Most communication is now virtual, whilst the little glass and metal bubbles that we use to travel around in provide perfect solitary confinement until something goes wrong.

Jim Ford
17th August 2018, 11:25 AM
10 pints of lager on a Friday night

I'd be very angry indeed if I had to drink only one pint of lager!

Jim

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 11:29 AM
I'd be very angry indeed if I had to drink only one pint of lager!

Jim

I would be angry if I had to drink a pint of lager. Disgusting stuff.

(Where is the spewey smiley?)

Ricoh
17th August 2018, 12:01 PM
Surely those are the best bits? :D
And playing cricket no doubt. :D

Jim Ford
17th August 2018, 01:01 PM
I would be angry if I had to drink a pint of lager. Disgusting stuff.

Actually, that's what I meant to say, but it didn't quite come out like that.!

Jim

KeithL
17th August 2018, 01:44 PM
I get angry because people make me angry, okay? I mean, it's all these immigrants coming over here stealing our jobs and claiming our benefits while in some of our cities you hardly see a white face these days and this is MY lane, MY lane - bloody cyclists slowing all the traffic up and they don't even pay road tax. I ask you, what is this country coming to? We need to reclaim our country for British people and preserve the British way of life, like 10 pints of lager on a Friday night with a dodgy kebab and a fight on the way home. Do you have a problem with that? Do you?

Now you're REALLY sounding like my cousin! :D:D

I joke about my cousin, but he's very much like John Z said, especially about specifically Muslims, and he can't drink much because of health issues. Why them? Sure there are some bad 'us, but that's true of all people. When I said I disagreed with his view of them, he simply blocked my emails - an insult in itself, and arguably cowardly. But more importantly, it puts up a barrier, because, like Jack Nicholson said in the film, "You can't handle the truth." With all the anger washing around, people don't want to talk to each other face to face, they would rather yell insults from a distance, where they don't have to face up to anything. Especially reality.

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 02:59 PM
Now you're REALLY sounding like my cousin! :D:D

I joke about my cousin, but he's very much like John Z said, especially about specifically Muslims, and he can't drink much because of health issues. Why them? Sure there are some bad 'us, but that's true of all people. When I said I disagreed with his view of them, he simply blocked my emails - an insult in itself, and arguably cowardly. But more importantly, it puts up a barrier, because, like Jack Nicholson said in the film, "You can't handle the truth." With all the anger washing around, people don't want to talk to each other face to face, they would rather yell insults from a distance, where they don't have to face up to anything. Especially reality.

But handling the truth and reality works both ways Keith.

Did you watch the BBC News item last night about the Manchester Bomber and Didsbury Mosque? The opinions expressed were not mine but those of the BBC team responsible; so probably on the liberal side of the centreline.

Like it or not this is a reality that we have to face up to. We cannot pretend that it doesn't exist.

Some people are more eloquent than others when it comes to expressing opinions, and some cannot accept any opinion but their own, which sounds like your uncle; but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is wrong, any more than it means he is right.

The longer we try to hide these problems under the carpet and pretend they don't exist the more difficult they will be to resolve.

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 03:07 PM
Muslims again ? I'm beginning to think your cousin isn't the only one with a problem.

John

Maybe Keith is an under cover Imam seeking out infidels? *yes

Crazy Dave
17th August 2018, 03:25 PM
Two days ago, Polly Hudson, writing in the Mirror, said that she believes that we are all getting angrier and angrier. She commented that if you say something that someone disagrees with, they start shouting at you, and getting very nasty; make a minor driving mistake, and fists are shaken at you, swearing and retaliatory measures. She was wondering why.

I think she has a point. Could it be the stress of modern living? Could it be the lack of another major war? Is man programmed to fight, and tolerance is a learned reaction?

What do you think?

For angrier and angrier, read nastier and nastier. Just got back from a week in France taking the A26 out of Calais. It’s a two lane motorway with a 130 kph limit. Most of the inane driving I saw was by Audis, BMWs and Range Rovers sporting GB plates. Well in excess of the speed limit, they drove within a few feet of slower vehicles that were themselves overtaking in the outside lane. Not only nasty but highly dangerous and arrogant as if an easing off the accelerator was an affront to their self importance. Ugly.

David

KeithL
17th August 2018, 03:40 PM
But handling the truth and reality works both ways Keith.

Did you watch the BBC News item last night about the Manchester Bomber and Didsbury Mosque? The opinions expressed were not mine but those of the BBC team responsible; so probably on the liberal side of the centreline.

Like it or not this is a reality that we have to face up to. We cannot pretend that it doesn't exist.

Some people are more eloquent than others when it comes to expressing opinions, and some cannot accept any opinion but their own, which sounds like your uncle; but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is wrong, any more than it means he is right.

The longer we try to hide these problems under the carpet and pretend they don't exist the more difficult they will be to resolve.

Yes, I did; and yes, it is a problem. But that doesn't make it right to tar all Muslims (or indeed all of any group) with the same brush. Demonizing all Muslims will simply drive more into the arms of the extremists/radicals/whatever you like to call them.

KeithL
17th August 2018, 03:49 PM
Muslims again ? I'm beginning to think your cousin isn't the only one with a problem.

John

That sounds a bit insulting, John. Point is, I've had to work with all sorts of people over the years, including many Asian peoples, Russians, Americans, South Africans, etc., etc. You have to treat them as they treat you, not as stereotypes, otherwise you don't get very far! Now many of those people were our customers; would you think it right to have, for instance, insulted any of them then? Consequently, I am not anti any of them in principle; but if, as with anyone else, one or more treat me badly, then obviously, I react to them as I would to one of our own people if they treat me likewise.

Overall, immigration and immigrants is another issue, and a complex one. And not an issue I'm particularly keen to get into here.

wornish
17th August 2018, 03:57 PM
Bringing back national service might help.*yes

KeithL
17th August 2018, 04:01 PM
Bringing back national service might help.*yes

Greece still has national service. And islands like Lesvos are the sort of places they have to do most of it.

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 04:16 PM
I get angry because people make me angry, okay? I mean, it's all these immigrants coming over here stealing our jobs and claiming our benefits while in some of our cities you hardly see a white face these days and this is MY lane, MY lane - bloody cyclists slowing all the traffic up and they don't even pay road tax. I ask you, what is this country coming to? We need to reclaim our country for British people and preserve the British way of life, like 10 pints of lager on a Friday night with a dodgy kebab and a fight on the way home. Do you have a problem with that? Do you?

A mate with a severe physical disability and mental illness was sent to the Scrubs for 10 days last year for using the K word. It was his word against 3 Jehovah witnesses, who made the case against him over a parking space disagreement at a supermarket in London. He said he got angry with them shouting Sodom and Gomorrah. He couldnt recall saying the bad word.
The K word is similar to the N word, popularised by Alf Garnett and because of this racist word, he was sent down.

Jim Ford
17th August 2018, 04:24 PM
A mate with a severe physical disability and mental illness was sent to the Scrubs for 10 days last year for using the K word. It was his word against 3 Jehovah witnesses, who made the case against him over a parking space disagreement at a supermarket in London. He said he got angry with them shouting Sodom and Gomorrah. He couldnt recall saying the bad word.
The K word is similar to the N word, popularised by Alf Garnett and because of this racist word, he was sent down.

I'm very surprised that they were actually sent to prison just for using an offensive word. There must have been more to it.

Jim

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 04:26 PM
Is that word spelled with a "K" or a "C" Phil ? If it refers to a furry USA critter it's a "C" :D:D:D

John

The word ends in N and not T

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 04:29 PM
I'm very surprised that they were actually sent to prison just for using an offensive word. There must have been more to it.

Jim

He was sent to prison for 10 days soley for using that word. I was in court at the time. I have nothing to gain here by lying about it.

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 04:30 PM
Yes, I did; and yes, it is a problem. But that doesn't make it right to tar all Muslims (or indeed all of any group) with the same brush. Demonizing all Muslims will simply drive more into the arms of the extremists/radicals/whatever you like to call them.

Nobody is tarring any group with the same brush Keith. But you, as an Engineer should know better than anyone that pretending a problem doesn't exist never makes it go away.

Worse still, this kind of denial angers those who feel ignored by the liberal elite in Westminster and helps to justify the actions of nationalists and other extremists.

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 04:31 PM
Exactly Phil ! And begins with C.

Abbreviation of Raccoon by any chance? or am I barking up the wrong tree ? :D

John

Correct sir! :)

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 04:33 PM
Anger Management

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/GateKeeper_/GIF%20Maker/FFC73FBA-3A47-451E-93AA-A99951F81702.gif (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/GateKeeper_/media/GIF%20Maker/FFC73FBA-3A47-451E-93AA-A99951F81702.gif.html)

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 04:36 PM
Anger Management

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/GateKeeper_/GIF%20Maker/FFC73FBA-3A47-451E-93AA-A99951F81702.gif (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/GateKeeper_/media/GIF%20Maker/FFC73FBA-3A47-451E-93AA-A99951F81702.gif.html)

I like it!

For balance there has to be one that works the other way though? *yes

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 04:37 PM
I also hope that wasn't a leather football that Jeremy (who is a Veggie) was kicking? *yes

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 05:20 PM
Anger Management

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/GateKeeper_/GIF%20Maker/FC244FD2-98DC-4B47-B49A-67BF4EF1C4C3.gif (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/GateKeeper_/media/GIF%20Maker/FC244FD2-98DC-4B47-B49A-67BF4EF1C4C3.gif.html)

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 05:45 PM
There was a superb, and real video of John Prescott giving a protester a fine left hook. :D

Found it. (https://youtu.be/w_GLHsq_8KU)

TimP
17th August 2018, 06:01 PM
..... Sadly we have bred a generation of greedy yobs who believe they have a right to have whatever they want. No morals or consideration for others, no respect for the rule of law and it's nothing to do with social deprivation or poverty. You only have to look at the number of highly paid footballers charged with drink driving, affray, assault and worse. All perpetuated by a useless legal system, no deterrent to crime, and a country populated by too many "Do Gooders" and "Politically Correct" brigades.


John

This!

Sums it up very well.

TimP
17th August 2018, 06:12 PM
Correct sir! :)
I got there just before I scrolled down and saw the longer word. I must admit I struggled to get there, although to be fair the letter K threw me completely!

TimP
17th August 2018, 06:19 PM
Is it just me or are our current politicians a bunch of useless wastes of time, all of them, not picking on any party but all of them? Tories are in total disarray and yet Labour are utterly failing to capitalise on it, they should be surging ahead and wiping the floor with the Tories. They all seem to be a bunch of ineffectual lightweights.

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 06:49 PM
Is it just me or are our current politicians a bunch of useless wastes of time, all of them, not picking on any party but all of them? Tories are in total disarray and yet Labour are utterly failing to capitalise on it, they should be surging ahead and wiping the floor with the Tories. They all seem to be a bunch of ineffectual lightweights.

Yes. And yes. :(

KeithL
17th August 2018, 06:56 PM
Nobody is tarring any group with the same brush Keith. But you, as an Engineer should know better than anyone that pretending a problem doesn't exist never makes it go away.

Worse still, this kind of denial angers those who feel ignored by the liberal elite in Westminster and helps to justify the actions of nationalists and other extremists.

So who is pretending that a problem doesn't exist? I certainly am not; however, my cousin does tar all with the same brush. You don't get anywhere by doing that - except make a bad situation worse. Perhaps that\'s what some people want to do.

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 09:40 PM
There was a superb, and real video of John Prescott giving a protester a fine left hook. :D

Found it. (https://youtu.be/w_GLHsq_8KU)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/GateKeeper_/GIF%20Maker/DAC86CCA-3F1F-438C-89CF-DDC46B91CCFA.gif (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/GateKeeper_/media/GIF%20Maker/DAC86CCA-3F1F-438C-89CF-DDC46B91CCFA.gif.html)

Gate Keeper
17th August 2018, 09:58 PM
I got there just before I scrolled down and saw the longer word. I must admit I struggled to get there, although to be fair the letter K threw me completely!

Thanks for reading the account. I was trying at one level, to be discreet and at another level, careful not to be too obvious, given this is a family forum. In essence, he pleaded not guilty and I reckon he paid a high price for saying it. I think the sentence was harsh, as it was his first offence and he was made an example. He had a barrister to represent him and despite this, he lost the case, all from a moment of anger. Had he been a famous cricketeer ;)

Naughty Nigel
17th August 2018, 11:03 PM
Thanks for reading the account. I was trying at one level, to be discreet and at another level, careful not to be too obvious, given this is a family forum. In essence, he pleaded not guilty and I reckon he paid a high price for saying it. I think the sentence was harsh, as it was his first offence and he was made an example. He had a barrister to represent him and despite this, he lost the case, all from a moment of anger. Had he been a famous cricketeer ;)

If true it seems that words and speeding are now seen as being more serious than violent offences. We really have lost the plot. :(

G'night.

TimP
18th August 2018, 07:16 AM
It’s interesting reading the ‘who’s been before the courts this week’ section of the local rag (are all local papers using the same, utterly crap websites??); generally the fines / sentencing dished out to the thieves, burglars and violent affray types are all much, much lower than those handed down to motorists. There’s a feeling that shoplifters won’t get prosecuted for a first offence or a low value theft, just what sort of message does this send to people?? I really do despair for what this country is becoming. I won’t get started on the whole subject of the moped gangs seemingly being able to get away with murder in that London! I think I’d better go and lie down for an hour or two now!

Zuiko
18th August 2018, 09:47 AM
Thanks for reading the account. I was trying at one level, to be discreet and at another level, careful not to be too obvious, given this is a family forum. In essence, he pleaded not guilty and I reckon he paid a high price for saying it. I think the sentence was harsh, as it was his first offence and he was made an example. He had a barrister to represent him and despite this, he lost the case, all from a moment of anger. Had he been a famous cricketeer ;)

It isn't a nice word by any means and not one I would use, but prison does seem harsh in the circumstances you describe. It's interesting that Pink Floyd used this word with impunity in the lyrics of "In The Flesh," from "The Wall" album, although in this case it was clearly satire aimed at the far right racist mindset.

KeithL
18th August 2018, 10:02 AM
Thanks for reading the account. I was trying at one level, to be discreet and at another level, careful not to be too obvious, given this is a family forum. In essence, he pleaded not guilty and I reckon he paid a high price for saying it. I think the sentence was harsh, as it was his first offence and he was made an example. He had a barrister to represent him and despite this, he lost the case, all from a moment of anger. Had he been a famous cricketeer ;)

You might even be tempted to think that being hanged for stealing a silk handkerchief (therefore a wealthy person's handkerchief) or sent to Oz for having a meeting unapproved by Parliament might be on their way back! But hang on - if motoring offences and insulting words attract tougher penalties, would the penalty be hanging, drawing and quartering? :D:D:D

MJ224
18th August 2018, 10:07 AM
If true it seems that words and speeding are now seen as being more serious than violent offences. We really have lost the plot. :(

G'night.

Easy meat...……….*chr

TimP
18th August 2018, 12:01 PM
Funny how both the N and the C word (not that one, the one from this thread!) both appeared in mainstream children’s book from my childhood. Is it any wonder people like my mother seem to see it as normal? Actually I’ve never heard her use either word but I’m sure we’ve had conversations about it and she’s expressed surprise that it’s now frowned upon. Dread to think what she’d think of someone bieng imprisoned. Still, good to see the powers that be have got their priorities sorted and our best interests at heart.

Jim Ford
18th August 2018, 12:24 PM
A school friend in the 60s had a black cat they called the 'N' word. They used to go out in the garden and call it in the evening. I can remember at the time feeling that it somehow wasn't right!

Jim

TimP
18th August 2018, 12:27 PM
It wasn’t Guy Gibson was it?

Oh, wait, that was a dog.

Gate Keeper
18th August 2018, 03:01 PM
It isn't a nice word by any means and not one I would use, but prison does seem harsh in the circumstances you describe. It's interesting that Pink Floyd used this word with impunity in the lyrics of "In The Flesh," from "The Wall" album, although in this case it was clearly satire aimed at the far right racist mindset.

A couple of posters have insinuated that this case might not be true or there is more to it.

The whole incident was bizarre. He has been terminally ill since 2003 with a fatal heart and lung condition, The condition causes clouding of consciousness when his oxygen levels drop as a result of not being able to inhale normally. It was argued in court, that at the time of the incident, he was confused and did not know what he was saying. Normally, he is one of those chaps who never uses any profanity, not even an f word. Swearing for him was out of character, but who knows what happens when any of us lose our rag. Okay, he broke the law and paid the price.

Last October, I was a passenger in the front seat of the car he was driving. We were proceeding along the A.40 Western Avenue going towards London, when we came across an RTA. The police had closed off most of the road. I shouted, "slow down' there is an accident ahead. But no! his brakes failed and we careered through a gap in the RTA of cars and trucks. I couldn't believe it. His car came to a stop about 2 miles further on near the Polish Memorial. The police chased us, believing we were 'hit n run'..... His brake pipes had corroded. He then collapsed with shock and was rushed off to hospital in an ambulance. The police decided not to prosecute. I was unhurt and flew out to Kenya 3 days later.

Here is a photo from that awful night. It is a shame I can't validate the court case with photos for the doubters ;)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4478/37069365094_55992a89ae_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YtGbLo)IMG_0547 (https://flic.kr/p/YtGbLo) by philip Gate Keeper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/gatekeeperphil/), on Flickr

Zuiko
18th August 2018, 03:39 PM
A couple of posters have insinuated that this case might not be true or there is more to it.

The whole incident was bizarre. He has been terminally ill since 2003 with a fatal heart and lung condition, The condition causes clouding of consciousness when his oxygen levels drop as a result of not being able to inhale normally. It was argued in court, that at the time of the incident, he was confused and did not know what he was saying. Normally, he is one of those chaps who never uses any profanity, not even an f word. Swearing for him was out of character, but who knows what happens when any of us lose our rag. Okay, he broke the law and paid the price.

Last October, I was a passenger in the front seat of the car he was driving. We were proceeding along the A.40 Western Avenue going towards London, when we came across an RTA. The police had closed off most of the road. I shouted, "slow down' there is an accident ahead. But no! his brakes failed and we careered through a gap in the RTA of cars and trucks. I couldn't believe it. His car came to a stop about 2 miles further on near the Polish Memorial. The police chased us, believing we were 'hit n run'..... His brake pipes had corroded. He then collapsed with shock and was rushed off to hospital in an ambulance. The police decided not to prosecute. I was unhurt and flew out to Kenya 3 days later.

Here is a photo from that awful night. It is a shame I can't validate the court case with photos for the doubters ;)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4478/37069365094_55992a89ae_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YtGbLo)IMG_0547 (https://flic.kr/p/YtGbLo) by philip Gate Keeper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/gatekeeperphil/), on Flickr

I was certainly not insinuating that this case might not be true or there is more to it, but I can think of cases where prison might be appropriate for provocative language. for example Tommy Robinson.

Gate Keeper
18th August 2018, 04:07 PM
I was certainly not insinuating that this case might not be true or there is more to it, but I can think of cases where prison might be appropriate for provocative language. for example Tommy Robinson.

Oh, my comment was not aimed at you. I am only here for the banter, for the friendly discussion and any camera talk :) Tomorrow, I am meeting up with a group of enthusiasts from another photography forum in Malden. Do any of the members in e-group ever meet up? I do not know what to say about TR. I see he is in court again on 4 September.

Jim Ford
18th August 2018, 05:18 PM
I do not know what to say about TR. I see he is in court again on 4 September.

I know what to say about him - he's a foul piece of excrement!

Jim

TimP
18th August 2018, 05:56 PM
I know what to say about him - he's a foul piece of excrement!

Jim

Yep, the man and his like are all complete POS. I hope he gets banged up when back in court.

Gate Keeper
18th August 2018, 08:12 PM
I know what to say about him - he's a foul piece of excrement!

Jim

I had to look him up on google as I had never heard of him.

Harold Gough
19th August 2018, 07:48 AM
It's the heat from the mini heatwave! ;)

I confirm that I have noted, in recent years, that, for many drivers, driving standards and patience degrade with rise in temperature.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
19th August 2018, 03:27 PM
I confirm that I have noted, in recent years, that, for many drivers, driving standards and patience degrade with rise in temperature.

Harold.



That is why we have air conditioning in most cars nowadays, but the cost of fixing it when it goes wrong does nothing to calm frayed tempers.

Interestingly, those who drive old 'executive' cars seem to suffer more with anger management issues than he average.

Jim Ford
19th August 2018, 03:33 PM
That is why we have air conditioning in most cars nowadays, but the cost of fixing it when it goes wrong does nothing to calm frayed tempers.

I had the climate control re-gassed in the spring. It was a godsend in the recent hot spell. I just wanted to drive around all day!

Jim

TimP
19th August 2018, 03:36 PM
Makes you wonder how we managed without aircon in the past. I remember driving with the sunroof open and strategically positioning a hand to deflect the airflow onto my forehead. Worked a treat when only one hand was required (yes, I know, don’t need reminding thanks)

Harold Gough
19th August 2018, 03:41 PM
Sounds good to me Zuiko, apart from the 10 pints and the drunken fighting...

The men are just as bad! :D

Harold

Harold Gough
19th August 2018, 03:43 PM
Interestingly, those who drive old 'executive' cars seem to suffer more with anger management issues than he average.

It is absorbed by the furnishings and let out when psychically stimulated, a form of poltergeist.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
19th August 2018, 04:04 PM
It's simply evolution, you reap what you sow. Sadly we have bred a generation of greedy yobs who believe they have a right to have whatever they want. No morals or consideration for others, no respect for the rule of law and it's nothing to do with social deprivation or poverty. You only have to look at the number of highly paid footballers charged with drink driving, affray, assault and worse. All perpetuated by a useless legal system, no deterrent to crime, and a country populated by too many "Do Gooders" and "Politically Correct" brigades.

John

Got it in one John.

Again I wonder whether marketing and advertising is partly to blame?

It is well known that 'pester power' by children is far more effective than advertising to adults, hence the adverts aimed at children and sweets and children's magazines displayed around supermarket checkouts.

It was only a matter of time before these 'entitled' spoiled brats grew up and took over the world.

I think they call it 'assertiveness'. :(


For angrier and angrier, read nastier and nastier. Just got back from a week in France taking the A26 out of Calais. It’s a two lane motorway with a 130 kph limit. Most of the inane driving I saw was by Audis, BMWs and Range Rovers sporting GB plates. Well in excess of the speed limit, they drove within a few feet of slower vehicles that were themselves overtaking in the outside lane. Not only nasty but highly dangerous and arrogant as if an easing off the accelerator was an affront to their self importance. Ugly.

David

Once again I suspect this is a learned behaviour.

I have driven BMW's on a couple of occasions and have to say I was disappointed, and actually left wondering what all the fuss was about. They were competent enough but soulless and certainly nothing special. Audi's likewise.

Equally, there was nothing about these cars that made me want to drive like a bonehead, so why is that their usual driving style?

For reasons that I cannot fathom, BMW, Audi and Range Rover vehicles are associated with wealth and success. Thanks to the power of Proletarian Drift those of a certain demographic like to buy (or more often lease) these vehicles to impress others. The fact that they are arrogant dicks may well influence their driving style, but I suspect it is more that they see other arrogant dicks behaving like boneheads and simply follow suit.

Once they become second-hand the process is repeated at a lower demographic level, often with dire consequences.

However, the boneheadedness of BMW/Audi/Range Rover pilots seems to depend a lot on what you are driving yourself, and whether they feel the need or opportunity to assert themselves.

We have four different cars in our household. If I am driving our little Corsa, which I really enjoy, I can predict that if I venture into the overtaking lane even pushing the motorway speed limit there will be an Audi/BMW/Range Rover within a couple of metres of the rear bumper, often flashing its lights, although they rarely make much progress once they push past. I vary rarely experience the same behaviour when driving the Jag. If fact it is often the other way round with the Cabbage Crates in particular pulling over to make way. ;)

Harold Gough
19th August 2018, 04:31 PM
If true it seems that words and speeding are now seen as being more serious than violent offences. We really have lost the plot. :(

Today I heard another mention of speeding bringing a prosecution if only 1mph above the limit.

Remember, when driving, do not be distracted by what is happening on the road, keep your eyes on the speedometer, it's what the police want.

Harold

Harold Gough
19th August 2018, 06:44 PM
I would never buy or lease a BMW or Audi. The requirement to have a Frontal Lobotomy performed prior to collecting the vehicle would definitely put me off owning one.

John

I had an Audi in the 1970s. The local dealer's knuckle-draggers could never get the timing right on the ignition so I did it myself.

Harold

TimP
19th August 2018, 07:53 PM
Had a gen 1 Audi TT, great little car, regret getting rid of it. Dealers were a bit up themselves though!

Naughty Nigel
19th August 2018, 08:15 PM
Today I heard another mention of speeding bringing a prosecution if only 1mph above the limit.

Remember, when driving, do not be distracted by what is happening on the road, keep your eyes on the speedometer, it's what the police want.

Harold

My view exactly.

Maybe if we had a blanket 30 MPH limit we could do away with driving tests, MOT's, insurance, airbags and seat belts because accidents would never happen. :rolleyes:

I actually think that rigid adherence to speed limits causes more problems than it solves owing to dangerous bunching on motorways, but the authorities cannot see that.

The authorities also seem to have lost sight of why people drive in the first place; to get from A to B as quickly and efficiently as possible. If we all got on the trains or buses as they seem to want the country would grind to a halt on the first day!

Jim Ford
19th August 2018, 08:29 PM
Had a gen 1 Audi TT, great little car, regret getting rid of it. Dealers were a bit up themselves though!

I've got the same engine in my Skoda VRs - it goes like stink. I drove for 50 years with an unblemished driving record. Within 6 months of getting the VRs I was 3 points from a ban!

By far the best car I've ever owned.

Jim

Naughty Nigel
19th August 2018, 08:40 PM
I've got the same engine in my Skoda VRs - it goes like stink. I drove for 50 years with an unblemished driving record. Within 6 months of getting the VRs I was 3 points from a ban!

By far the best car I've ever owned.

Jim

You rebel Jim. :D :D :D

TimP
20th August 2018, 07:18 AM
My TT* got me into huge trouble in France, got done for speeding and was marched to the cash dispenser for cash to pay the fine, couldn’t withdraw enough so had to stay in local hotel and get more in morning (after phoning bank for limit increase). Banned from driving in France, so wifey had to drive my precious TT back to ferry port, first time driving on ‘wrong’ side. Boy, that was a frosty couple of hundred miles, that’s for sure. As soon as we entered the ferry port gates we swapped back, much to my relief.

* I suspect it was my driving rather than the car itself!

Naughty Nigel
20th August 2018, 07:35 AM
My TT* got me into huge trouble in France, got done for speeding and was marched to the cash dispenser for cash to pay the fine, couldn’t withdraw enough so had to stay in local hotel and get more in morning (after phoning bank for limit increase). Banned from driving in France, so wifey had to drive my precious TT back to ferry port, first time driving on ‘wrong’ side. Boy, that was a frosty couple of hundred miles, that’s for sure. As soon as we entered the ferry port gates we swapped back, much to my relief.

* I suspect it was my driving rather than the car itself!

I know that feeling all too well. :rolleyes:

The first time SWMBO took over driving the current Jag we were on the M6, which was thankfully quiet at the time. We had cruise control set at 70-ish, but she didn't like passing other cars slowly so booted it. 'Aww I like the feel of this' she said with a big grin. 'Now I know why you like driving it so much'. 'Yes' I replied, 'but have you any idea how fast you are driving!' :eek:

TimP
20th August 2018, 08:41 AM
My wife loved the TT and I’ve never heard the last of letting it go. My episode in France was a simple money making exercise I’m convinced. Yes I was ‘making progress’ but the roads were clear, visibility was perfect and conditions were ideal. I reckon I must have paid for one hell of a Christmas party that year in that particular station!

DerekW
20th August 2018, 09:05 AM
It was the GB sticker that identified you as a cash donor

TimP
20th August 2018, 09:13 AM
It was the GB sticker that identified you as a cash donor

Not the distance they spotted me from it wasn’t! They had radar and were probably a good mile away down a long straight, I realised what was up pretty quick but it was too late, as I sailed by, bang on the limit one of the cops was lazily getting on his motorbike, in his shirt sleeves ready to catch me and signal me into the conveniently positioned services / police station exit.

Naughty Nigel
20th August 2018, 10:00 AM
My wife loved the TT and I’ve never heard the last of letting it go. My episode in France was a simple money making exercise I’m convinced. Yes I was ‘making progress’ but the roads were clear, visibility was perfect and conditions were ideal. I reckon I must have paid for one hell of a Christmas party that year in that particular station!

By the same token I think Newbury Police Station must have had a good Christmas bash after they caught me on the A34 late one night. It was an unmarked car too which I thought was very unsporting. I don't know whether they get a bonus based on the number of points awarded, but six points plus three that I already had meant that I had to be extremely, ultra careful for the next two years. :rolleyes:

To add insult to injury, my rigid adherence to the speed limit resulted in me being deliberately rammed by a 17 year old toerag driving an unregistered, untaxed, uninsured Fiesta late on night on the Newcastle Western Bypass. It also transpired that the driver was still serving a driving ban from when he was 15 having been caught joy riding in a stolen car.

He was only caught a few weeks later after having tried to run over a foot patrol officer, after which a police chase followed and he crashed.

His penalty was just £70. :mad:

TimP
20th August 2018, 10:11 AM
That is so wrong! The message that young idiot will take away from that is that getting caught doing what he did isn’t so bad after all and probably worth doing again. You see so many similar cases where young, impressionable, immature drivers seem to get away with virtual murder. The justice system is way out of kilter in so many cases.
A bit like the ‘won’t be prosecuted for shoplifting less than £200 worth’. What on earth does that tell people?? Won’t be posting for a hour or two, just off to Curry’s to get my first free £199 worth, if that goes well I’ll go another time until I get caught, then I’ll only get a warning so it’ll be a safe time to stop!
Madness.

Naughty Nigel
20th August 2018, 10:15 AM
That is so wrong! The message that young idiot will take away from that is that getting caught doing what he did isn’t so bad after all and probably worth doing again. You see so many similar cases where young, impressionable, immature drivers seem to get away with virtual murder. The justice system is way out of kilter in so many cases.
A bit like the ‘won’t be prosecuted for shoplifting less than £200 worth’. What on earth does that tell people?? Won’t be posting for a hour or two, just off to Curry’s to get my first free £199 worth, if that goes well I’ll go another time until I get caught, then I’ll only get a warning so it’ll be a safe time to stop!
Madness.

Its a way of life for some people Tim. :(

TimP
20th August 2018, 10:34 AM
Bang ‘em up! Worthless little scrotes!

Naughty Nigel
20th August 2018, 12:12 PM
Bang ‘em up! Worthless little scrotes!

I'm sure it would be like a family get together for the little dears. :mad:

Jim Ford
20th August 2018, 06:42 PM
It also transpired that the driver was still serving a driving ban from when he was 15 having been caught joy riding in a stolen car.

I can never understand how that works.

You're automatically banned from driving at 15, by virtue of your age. Surely you can only get banned from doing some activity if you are normally
authorised to do, but committed some misdemeanour. Would (say) a 10 year old get a driving ban if they were caught driving their dad's car?

Jim

Harold Gough
20th August 2018, 06:45 PM
I can never understand how that works.

You're automatically banned from driving at 15, by virtue of your age. Surely you can only get banned from doing some activity if you are normally
authorised to do, but committed some misdemeanour. Would (say) a 10 year old get a driving ban if they were caught driving their dad's car?

Jim

Jim,

The ban starts when he reaches the age to drive legally.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
20th August 2018, 07:25 PM
I can never understand how that works.

You're automatically banned from driving at 15, by virtue of your age. Surely you can only get banned from doing some activity if you are normally
authorised to do, but committed some misdemeanour. Would (say) a 10 year old get a driving ban if they were caught driving their dad's car?

Jim

I think the ban serves two purposes. Firstly it stops the driver from driving once he or she reaches the legal age. Secondly it increases the severity of the offence if caught driving, although I agree it doesn't seem to make sense.

In my case the penalty of £70 handed down was less than a quarter of what I had paid just a few weeks earlier for a bit of speeding (well, quite a lot of speeding actually) in a fully road legal vehicle. :mad:

Keith-369
20th August 2018, 07:33 PM
Firstly it stops the driver from driving once he or she reaches the legal age.

Would be nice if it did.

TimP
21st August 2018, 09:27 AM
Presumably in cases where someone goes to prison for causing a death by dangerous driving and who gets, say, a 5 year sentence (yes I know, ridiculous laws let them out at half time, grrrrr) and a 5 year driving ban then the ban only starts on their release from prison?
If it doesn’t then the law truly is an ass!

Harold Gough
21st August 2018, 09:30 AM
Presumably in cases where someone goes to prison for causing a death by dangerous driving and who gets, say, a 5 year sentence (yes I know, ridiculous laws let them out at half time, grrrrr) and a 5 year driving ban then the ban only starts on their release from prison?

It does and if they subsequently ignore the ban they go back to prison with an extended ban.

By the way, anyone who is banned has their licence cancelled and have to apply for a new one after the ban.

Harold

TimP
21st August 2018, 09:32 AM
Didn’t know that, can you apply before ban ends to make sure you can drive from day 1 or is it effectively punishing you more by however long the application system takes?

Harold Gough
21st August 2018, 10:34 AM
Didn’t know that, can you apply before ban ends to make sure you can drive from day 1 or is it effectively punishing you more by however long the application system takes?

Presumably you could apply shortly before the ban ends, such that you receive the new licence after the end of the ban, I suspect that they all have a start date (my three-year vintage person one does, and an end date). I suspect that you can't own a valid licence at a time when you are not entitled.

Harold

DerekW
21st August 2018, 11:01 AM
I thought that after a ban the person had to pass a driving test before returning to the road.

TimP
21st August 2018, 12:31 PM
That would depend on whether that was specified at sentencing time, I don’t think it happens in all cases (speeding for example)

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 12:58 PM
On a completely different subject, there was an interesting item on the BBC News programme on Saturday morning concerning a High Court test case which I presume was heard some time last week. (I cannot find a link at the moment.)

Basically, the parents of a disruptive child took his school to court for excluding him for a few days, claiming that the exclusion infringed his human rights. This went all the way to the High Court, which ruled that excluding disruptive and violent children from school did indeed infringe their human rights. Clearly this sets an important precedent as to how schools can discipline disruptive and violent children in all schools in England and Wales (where English Law applies).

However, there was no mention of teacher's human rights being infringed by disruptive or violent behaviour, or the human rights of those children who go to school to learn something. :mad:

I suspect this action might have been motivated by the parents having to take time off work to mind their disruptive offspring. :(

TimP
21st August 2018, 01:10 PM
No doubt the little dear will be diagnosed with something and the family will be able to get some kind of disability allowance along with a Motability car for him and the rest of us will be lumbered with paying for it for the rest of his life.

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 01:13 PM
No doubt the little dear will be diagnosed with something and the family will be able to get some kind of disability allowance along with a Motability car for him and the rest of us will be lumbered with paying for it for the rest of his life.

Yep. And a free laptop at school. :rolleyes:

There seems to be a whole industry in finding previously undiscovered conditions that result in children behaving like little thugs and disrupting the education of the majority.

It doesn't help that far too many parents seem to want to find something wrong with their offspring to make them unique. :rolleyes:

TimP
21st August 2018, 03:13 PM
Retrospective birth control would help too.

All these found ailments are so the parents (often just the one) needn’t feel like they’ve done a bad job (which in most cases they have) but little Kanye was always going to be a bad ‘un cos he has <insert latest niche ailment here>

TimP
21st August 2018, 03:16 PM
Yep. And a free laptop at school. :rolleyes:



There was a time when they’d get track days after twoc’ing a car and free holidays to some exotic places for all other crimes.

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 03:19 PM
All these found ailments are so the parents (often just the one) needn’t feel like they’ve done a bad job (which in most cases they have) but little Kanye was always going to be a bad ‘un cos he has <insert latest niche ailment here>

It might have something to do with the 'low genetic diversity' of the parents; sorry, of the mother and her partner. :rolleyes:

TimP
21st August 2018, 03:21 PM
This is going to get me started on iPhones and tattoos at this rate!

Naughty Nigel
21st August 2018, 03:27 PM
This is going to get me started on iPhones and tattoos at this rate!

What about Sky TV subscriptions?

Harold Gough
21st August 2018, 04:54 PM
I thought that after a ban the person had to pass a driving test before returning to the road.

I think that is so. I wasn't sure about that.

Harold

TimP
22nd August 2018, 08:07 AM
What about Sky TV subscriptions?

Fair point, a TV with Freeview should give enough channels if you’re on a budget.

Naughty Nigel
22nd August 2018, 11:14 AM
Fair point, a TV with Freeview should give enough channels if you’re on a budget.

Frankly I don't consider any television to be a necessity. I would far rather listen to the wireless. Other than Chris Evens I find radio broadcasting to be considerably more intelligent.

TimP
22nd August 2018, 11:18 AM
I don’t think your average younger ‘person’ has the concentration to listen to a radio for more than a few minutes at a time.

Naughty Nigel
22nd August 2018, 11:29 AM
On a separate but related subject, browsing the newspapers in the Co-op this morning (I didn't buy any of them) I see the Torygraph leads with "Ex-Criminal magistrates would boost diversity" reporting the comments of John Bache, Chairman of the Magistrates Association.

Meanwhile the Wail is asking "what does it take to get locked up", criticising "appalling soft justice meted out by courts".

(I can answer that question: speeding! Just one instance of driving at 120 MPH + on a deserted motorway is far more likely to result in a jail term than burglary or violent offending.)

Elsewhere there are stories of black and dark skinned people using dangerous skin lighting products, whilst at the same time some white people feel the need to use fake tans and dangerous sun beds.

We really have lost the plot. :(

Naughty Nigel
22nd August 2018, 11:31 AM
I don’t think your average younger ‘person’ has the concentration to listen to a radio for more than a few minutes at a time.

But why is that?

I don't disagree with you but why is it that 'younger people' lack the attention span needed to listen to a radio programme? We used to be glued to the wireless for hours!

TimP
22nd August 2018, 11:53 AM
Yes, I think Johns right, low attention span due to social media distractions etc. I find it difficult to put down my iPad most evenings and find myself doing exactly what was mentioned, dipping in and out of TV while distracted by things like this forum!

TimP
22nd August 2018, 11:55 AM
On a separate but related subject, browsing the newspapers in the Co-op this morning (I didn't buy any of them)

It’s not a bl@@dy library you know!!!! Occasionally buy a magazine in WH Smiths and have to fight my way past the wuckfits who think it’s a library, none of ‘em ever buy anything........

Gate Keeper
22nd August 2018, 11:56 AM
On a separate but related subject, browsing the newspapers in the Co-op this morning (I didn't buy any of them) I see the Torygraph leads with "Ex-Criminal magistrates would boost diversity" reporting the comments of John Bache, Chairman of the Magistrates Association.

Meanwhile the Wail is asking "what does it take to get locked up", criticising "appalling soft justice meted out by courts".

(I can answer that question: speeding! Just one instance of driving at 120 MPH + on a deserted motorway is far more likely to result in a jail term than burglary or violent offending.)

Elsewhere there are stories of black and dark skinned people using dangerous skin lighting products, whilst at the same time some white people feel the need to use fake tans and dangerous sun beds.

We really have lost the plot. :(

We had a magistrate on the Car forum I belong to. He was caught using more than one I.D to sign in. He was making counter arguments with his multiple personalities. He wasn’t the brightest of sparks and his behavior led to a permanent ban from the forum.

TimP
22nd August 2018, 11:58 AM
On a separate but related subject, browsing the newspapers in the Co-op this morning (I didn't buy any of them) I see the Torygraph leads with "Ex-Criminal magistrates would boost diversity" reporting the comments of John Bache, Chairman of the Magistrates Association.

Meanwhile the Wail is asking "what does it take to get locked up", criticising "appalling soft justice meted out by courts".

(I can answer that question: speeding! Just one instance of driving at 120 MPH + on a deserted motorway is far more likely to result in a jail term than burglary or violent offending.)

Elsewhere there are stories of black and dark skinned people using dangerous skin lighting products, whilst at the same time some white people feel the need to use fake tans and dangerous sun beds.

We really have lost the plot. :(

The speeding / burglary thing is so true but why? Like you said, deserted motorway, safe conditions, only likely to kill yourself yet it’s somehow seen as worse than a burglary which can totally mess up people’s lives for good.
Something is completely out of balance somewhere, priorities all wrong it would seem.

Harold Gough
22nd August 2018, 12:34 PM
Frankly I don't consider any television to be a necessity. I would far rather listen to the wireless. Other than Chris Evens I find radio broadcasting to be considerably more intelligent.

Most evenings of the week I find nothing worth watching on TV (terrestrial/freeview). I would have agreed with you about the radio but it has gone downhill recently and there is a current debate about why Radio 4 "Today" is losing listeners. It's quite simple, interviewers are deeply in love with the sound of their own voice and drown out what interviewees are trying to say. Most of the Radio 4 comedy is now dire, unfunny and infantile.

Harold

Harold Gough
22nd August 2018, 12:38 PM
The speeding / burglary thing is so true but why? Like you said, deserted motorway, safe conditions, only likely to kill yourself yet it’s somehow seen as worse than a burglary which can totally mess up people’s lives for good.
Something is completely out of balance somewhere, priorities all wrong it would seem.

The traffic police love good chase! If your car is better than they can afford personally you are in deep trouble.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
22nd August 2018, 02:06 PM
The traffic police love good chase! If your car is better than they can afford personally you are in deep trouble.

Harold

The police used to enjoy a good chase, especially the motorcycle police. The more enlightened officers would point out how you could improve your riding style, road positioning and so forth. The worst you could usually expect was a good 'finger wagging' at the roadside in view of your friends but it all seems to be about targets and quotas now. :(

Naughty Nigel
22nd August 2018, 02:09 PM
I would have agreed with you about the radio but it has gone downhill recently and there is a current debate about why Radio 4 "Today" is losing listeners. It's quite simple, interviewers are deeply in love with the sound of their own voice and drown out what interviewees are trying to say. Most of the Radio 4 comedy is now dire, unfunny and infantile.

Harold

Yes, I have noticed that. I think it is the Paxo effect where interviewers seem to think they are cross examining interviewees, often whilst trying to put their own views across.

Radio 3 is good though if you pick the right time. *yes

TimP
22nd August 2018, 02:29 PM
The traffic police love good chase! If your car is better than they can afford personally you are in deep trouble.

Harold
Probably true but it’s a pretty poor show when’s ones fate is determined by envy! Bring back Dixon of Dock Green! I’m convinced times were better in some ways then. Others less so.

Jim Ford
22nd August 2018, 10:06 PM
Just one instance of driving at 120 MPH + on a deserted motorway is far more likely to result in a jail term than burglary or violent offending.

Gulp! :o

Jim

TimP
23rd August 2018, 07:31 AM
Gulp indeed!
Something is badly screwed / skewed when motoring offences get prioritised over burglary and violent crime. Reading in the news today about delays affecting ambulance arriving at patient (many hours and exactly this affected my mother who broke her leg in a fall recently). The same news described a new traffic camera which has pulled in a million pounds worth of fines in a few weeks. Yes, I realise we’re talking about an automated system compared with a system manned by people but FFS, it feels like the whole country is getting more broken by the day. Still, looking on the bright side, MPs can still get their £400 / month food allowance, so all’s well where it matters!

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 08:14 AM
Durham and Cleveland County Councils recently spent £3.2 million on four new speed camera vans equipped with infrared cameras allowing them to persecute drivers during the hours of darkness. All in the interests of road safety of course.

However, during the bad weather earlier this year there were numerous traffic accidents on the A19 trunk road because the road had not been salted. The council blamed government cuts for the lack of cash to spend on road grit (and filling potholes).

Even if the camera vans were effective they do nothing to deter people driving whilst unlicensed, or in stolen, uninsured and untaxed vehicles, which in my view are far more likely to cause accidents than a Rep pushing the speed limit on his way home late at night. Added to which, the Rep is far more likely to be contributing to society than the toerags described above.

We really do seem to have a two-tier justice system in this country. Get caught speeding in a taxed and insured vehicle and they will throw the book at you. Meanwhile, if you get caught speeding whilst banned and driving a vehicle without tax, insurance or MOT they will tell you nicely not to do it again. :mad:

Dewi9
23rd August 2018, 05:34 PM
Regarding 'toe rags' and 'disruptive pupils' we used to have 'Approved Schools' and 'Borstals', didn't we ?


What happened to them ?


I remember an 'Approved School' near where I lived and our school a football match against theirs. They came from all over the country, none were local.


David

Naughty Nigel
23rd August 2018, 05:49 PM
Regarding 'toe rags' and 'disruptive pupils' we used to have 'Approved Schools' and 'Borstals', didn't we ?


What happened to them ?


I remember an 'Approved School' near where I lived and our school a football match against theirs. They came from all over the country, none were local.


David

I think they closed years ago, with those involved 'integrated' into mainstream education. There are still a number of Young Offenders Institutions but you only get sent to one of those if remanded or on the orders of a court.

Borstals and 'approved schools' were effectively boarding schools for naughty boys, but I think students were allowed some freedom so it would make sense for them to be located well away from home. I also suspect that in many cases 'home' was the problem.

OM USer
30th August 2018, 08:08 PM
If you have money then you will be fined; if you have a job or a family life then you will be jailed; if you have neither then these are not punishments but an infringment of your personal welfare and will not stop you re-offending anyway. Thats how it works I think.