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jdal
7th March 2009, 03:55 PM
This (http://dofmaster.com/dofjs.html) website looks really good for working out the Hyperfocal Distance, so I made up a card with focal lengths and f-stops I commonly use for landscape work and had a try out, but something isn't right. Here's an example with the E1 and the 12-60.

Exif: 24mm, F9, so according to the chart the hyperfocal distance should be 4.5 metres.

The rock in the lower left is about 5 metres away so I focussed on it.
510

Here's a 100% crop of the rock:
512
Not pin sharp, but ok

Here's the village in the distance:
511

Looks pretty OOF to me, but my understanding is if I focus on the hyperfocal distance, everything from closer than that to infinity should be in focus. Does anyone have any tips/advice/clues?

snaarman
7th March 2009, 04:53 PM
Fair comment.. doesn't quite seem to do it - as you say, slightly out at infinity.

However this site

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/DOF-calculator.htm

has a more rigid dof calculator, and if you set it for a 20 inch print viewed from 50cm with 20/20 vision (and maybe that is more like the situation when pixel peeking on a big monitor) then it looks like like the hyperfocal distance would be further away..

Pete

jdal
7th March 2009, 05:08 PM
Thanks Pete, that's a better site, I clearly need to do some experimenting with what is acceptable sharpness, the figures I got are a long way out.

That 20/20 vision bit is interesting. A sensitive perfectionist may insist on you having an eye test before letting you see his photos. If you're 20/20 you aren't allowed to see them because you'll think they're OOF ;)

sapper
23rd April 2011, 02:32 PM
Just been watching a David Noton DVD, very inspiring it is. He has a hyperfocal distance chart on his site, davidnoton.com but it is for full frame lenses.
Would it be the same for 4/3 lenses? If not, anyone know of where I can get a chart for 4/3 lenses?
I have searched the forum and there is some stuff about DOF but I couldn't find a chart.
Just a shame that there is not a scale on each lens as there used to be in the olden days.

Ian
23rd April 2011, 02:42 PM
Just been watching a David Noton DVD, very inspiring it is. He has a hyperfocal distance chart on his site, davidnoton.com but it is for full frame lenses.
Would it be the same for 4/3 lenses? If not, anyone know of where I can get a chart for 4/3 lenses?
I have searched the forum and there is some stuff about DOF but I couldn't find a chart.
Just a shame that there is not a scale on each lens as there used to be in the olden days.

Hyperfocal distance basically means focusing on the nearest point where the dof beyond the subject just makes infinity. My articles on Four Thirds and apertures:

http://fourthirds-user.com/2011/04/apertures_and_micro_four_thirds.php

..shows that compared to full frame, you will get equivalent full frame DOF by halving the full frame focal length and halving the f-number.

So you should be able to use that to ready reckon from a full frame chart.

By the way, what you see as in focus and not in focus is all relative. If you crop severely, and you have enough resolution, what originally looked sharp will look blurred depending on how you view it. This is demonstrated in my latest article all about lens apertures:

http://dpnow.com/7975.html

These two illustrations from the article serve the point:

http://dpnow.com/images2/7975/uncropped.JPG

Depth of field is all relative. Everything above looks to be sharp, but zoom in on the same image...

http://dpnow.com/images2/7975/cropped.JPG

..and you can see that the background is actually fairly blurry, while the foreground is sharp.

Hope that helps,

Ian

sapper
23rd April 2011, 03:00 PM
Hyperfocal distance basically means focusing on the nearest point where the dof beyond the subject just makes infinity. My articles on Four Thirds and apertures:

http://fourthirds-user.com/2011/04/apertures_and_micro_four_thirds.php

..shows that compared to full frame, you will get equivalent full frame DOF by halving the full frame focal length and halving the f-number.

So you should be able to use that to ready reckon from a full frame chart.


Hope that helps,

Ian

Not sure if it does.
If the chart for FF says 24mm lens @ f8 gives a hyperfocal distance of 2.4m would a 4/3 lens at 12mm need f16 give the same hyperfocal distance?

Daveart
23rd April 2011, 03:35 PM
This (http://dofmaster.com/dofjs.html) website looks really good for working out the Hyperfocal Distance, so I made up a card with focal lengths and f-stops I commonly use for landscape work and had a try out, but something isn't right. Here's an example with the E1 and the 12-60.

Exif: 24mm, F9, so according to the chart the hyperfocal distance should be 4.5 metres.

The rock in the lower left is about 5 metres away so I focussed on it.
510

Here's a 100% crop of the rock:
512
Not pin sharp, but ok

Here's the village in the distance:
511

Looks pretty OOF to me, but my understanding is if I focus on the hyperfocal distance, everything from closer than that to infinity should be in focus. Does anyone have any tips/advice/clues?


Hi John the distant houses could very well be soften by heat haze, couldn't say really about the rock not being in focus though. At f9 with a 24mm lens should have given you most in focus I would say.

Dave

Ian
23rd April 2011, 05:10 PM
Not sure if it does.
If the chart for FF says 24mm lens @ f8 gives a hyperfocal distance of 2.4m would a 4/3 lens at 12mm need f16 give the same hyperfocal distance?

Halve the focal length and the f-number (not the aperture size) so that gives 12mm @f/4. The hyperfocal distance is about ten and half feet.

Ian

ozzie
23rd April 2011, 09:38 PM
I have been focusing one third of the way into the scene with all lenses.Will Hyperfocal Distance focus improve the sharpness in my landscapes ?
Thanks
John

Ian
23rd April 2011, 11:04 PM
II have been focusing one third of the way into the scene with all lenses.Will Hyperfocal Distance focus improve the sharpness in my landscapes ?
Thanks
John

It depends on what focal length and aperture you are using.

Ian

ozzie
24th April 2011, 12:24 AM
I find most of my shots are between F11 and F16 on the 12-60 and mostly F11 on 7-14 and I have always pre focused one third into the scene
Thanks John

Ian
24th April 2011, 08:42 AM
I find most of my shots are between F11 and F16 on the 12-60 and mostly F11 on 7-14 and I have always pre focused one third into the scene
Thanks John

By f/8 you are starting to lose resolution through diffraction softening. f/8 is like f/16 on full frame - do you need more depth of field than that? At a moderate wide angle of 18mm, at f/8, the hyperfocal distance is down to 9 feet. At 12mm it's down to 4 feet.

Ian

snaarman
24th April 2011, 11:56 AM
By f/8 you are starting to lose resolution through diffraction softening. f/8 is like f/16 on full frame - do you need more depth of field than that? At a moderate wide angle of 18mm, at f/8, the hyperfocal distance is down to 9 feet. At 12mm it's down to 4 feet.

Ian

Checking with exposureplot I find I am a f8 maniac. The vast majority of my snaps are done at f8 +- 1 stop.

Creature of habit?

Pete

Graham_of_Rainham
24th April 2011, 02:49 PM
<snip> I made up a card with focal lengths and f-stops I commonly use for landscape work and had a try out, but something isn't right. <snip>

I put togeather an XL sheet that produces a chart, by entering the lens details, CofC etc...

If you want a copy send an e-mail and I'll send you it.

*chr

David M
24th April 2011, 04:05 PM
Checking with exposureplot I find I am a f8 maniac. The vast majority of my snaps are done at f8 +- 1 stop.

Creature of habit?

Pete

Not really, I suspect you're trying to get the best out of your lenses, even if you're doing it subconsciously.

Checking Lightroom the vast majority of mine are f5.6 to f8.

jamie allan
24th April 2011, 06:58 PM
Checking with exposureplot I find I am a f8 maniac. The vast majority of my snaps are done at f8 +- 1 stop.

Creature of habit?

Pete

I just tried this for the first time and found that by far I'm
Focal Length approx 30mm
Iso 100
Aperture f6
Shutter speed 1/80

Makes you think why we buy all this kit doesn't it?

ozzie
24th April 2011, 11:20 PM
By f/8 you are starting to lose resolution through diffraction softening. f/8 is like f/16 on full frame - do you need more depth of field than that? At a moderate wide angle of 18mm, at f/8, the hyperfocal distance is down to 9 feet. At 12mm it's down to 4 feet.

Ian
Thanks Ian
Sounds like I am not even the same ball park. I will start using lower fstop and
see if things get better. I must admit that I have been happy so far with my images although some are a bit soft and I think you have answered that question for me.
Thanks again
John

maccabeej
25th April 2011, 09:33 AM
Interestingly the DOFMaster calculator on their site shows 7.91 ft as the hyperfocal distance for 12mm at F4. If you change the camera to an FF like the C****n 1D etc and enter 24mm and F8 you get 7.95ft which is marginally different. I presume, without doing the research and resorting to pythagaros that the diagonals of FF are not exactly 2x 4/3rds or the calculator is internally inconsistent. I have the DOFMaster app on my iphone which I have not yet used in anger so it is worth knowing that it may not be accurate.
Jim

Ian
25th April 2011, 12:05 PM
Interestingly the DOFMaster calculator on their site shows 7.91 ft as the hyperfocal distance for 12mm at F4. If you change the camera to an FF like the C****n 1D etc and enter 24mm and F8 you get 7.95ft which is marginally different. I presume, without doing the research and resorting to pythagaros that the diagonals of FF are not exactly 2x 4/3rds or the calculator is internally inconsistent. I have the DOFMaster app on my iphone which I have not yet used in anger so it is worth knowing that it may not be accurate.
Jim

There are a lot of approximations in photography arithmetic, so I think this is within the margin of error - it's less than half an inch :)

Ian

Ian
25th April 2011, 12:07 PM
Not really, I suspect you're trying to get the best out of your lenses, even if you're doing it subconsciously.

Checking Lightroom the vast majority of mine are f5.6 to f8.

Yes, that's a very sensible range :)

Ian