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Jonesgj
3rd February 2009, 07:41 PM
Hi,

I am now a proud owner of an FL36R flash. I have put it on my E520 and have taken some (for me anyway) good shots.

However, one of the main reasons I bought this was to trigger the flash remotely - to experiment with.

Now I researched this before buying it and found that this is possible: the E-520 has wireless capability and the FL36R is designed for wireless use. I didn't go it the deep "how-to", as I thought I'd leave it until I had a manual in my hand.

Well, having read the manual i can only get it to work by triggering it using the E-520 flash - that is, two flashes fire, defeating the object of excercise.

:(

Despite being blinded on several ocasions, I am going to continue fiddling with the settings (I might even try to read the manual again) and do another search on the web.

Alternatively I hope someone can give me a friendly point in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance

Graydon

Rod Souter
3rd February 2009, 09:14 PM
If the set up is similar to E3/FL50R.

1. Put flash in range.
2. Turn flash on.
3. Press MODE button on flash and set it to RC mode.
4. Set the channel and group of the flash.
5. Set the RC mode on the camera to ON.
6. Use the 'super control panel' to set the flash mode and other settings for each group.
7. Select a flash mode.
8. Raise built in flash.
9. Snap away. (the built in flash is not producing much light but is communicating with the remote flash.)

HTH


Rod

photo_owl
3rd February 2009, 09:49 PM
when the R flash is in RC mode the 520's pop up is in controller mode and the actual flash output is minimal.

the actual level of the controller mode output is selectable in the flash control menu on the camera - select from 3 modes.

if the R flash sensor is pretty close and direct sight then you can easily use the lowest setting. Reflected control, long range and in direct sunlight are reasons you might need to increase the setting - and obviouslyin all of these modes the increased power won't show on your exposure either.

if you are really really paranoid just use the camera in FP mode with a fast shutter speed and the controller flash won't get a look in (but you really don't need to)

if you want to test it's impact on your exposure then try one with FP and one with normal at exactly the same exposure and use a dropper in your PP program to test the levels in a possibly affected area. Unless you have the main flash behind the subject and the subject within 3 feet of the camera I bet you won't find anything.

Jonesgj
5th February 2009, 11:40 PM
Thanks Guys.

I did eventually find the line in the manual which shows wireless is by using the pop-up to control it.

I will be trying what you suggest this weekend.

One side effect I was trying to work around was that when using the 14-54 on fully wide, I get a shadow from the pop-up.

Not noticeable using the FL36r in the hotshoe (unless directed very low) but using it remote the shadow caused by the controller flash appears again.

I will do what you suggest - experiment with turning down the controller output.

Makonde
7th February 2009, 01:01 PM
One side effect I was trying to work around was that when using the 14-54 on fully wide, I get a shadow from the pop-up.

Not noticeable using the FL36r in the hotshoe (unless directed very low) but using it remote the shadow caused by the controller flash appears again.


You must be using it as a slave i.e. triggered by the popup flash.

If you use it as a wireless remote in RC mode, there is no flash from the popup so no lens shadow - assuming your off-camera FLR is well placed.

Jonesgj
7th February 2009, 04:16 PM
Keith,

That's the thing: I want to use it on its own. That is I only want the FL36r to fire. Reading the manual I don't think I can. It suggests that it only works remotely by using the pop-up flash as a trigger (as you say this seems to be how you would expect a third party RC flash to work: as a slave)

- I'm going to have another look now. I can see it has a Slave mode, an FP mode a TTL mode and another mode where it seems to just display the remote channel number (?) I can only get it to fire in TTL mode.

photo_owl
7th February 2009, 06:26 PM
Keith,

That's the thing: I want to use it on its own. That is I only want the FL36r to fire. Reading the manual I don't think I can. It suggests that it only works remotely by using the pop-up flash as a trigger (as you say this seems to be how you would expect a third party RC flash to work: as a slave)

- I'm going to have another look now. I can see it has a Slave mode, an FP mode a TTL mode and another mode where it seems to just display the remote channel number (?) I can only get it to fire in TTL mode.

light goes on.....

the flash mode you need is the 'another mode that just seems to display the remote channel number'

then in the camera menu you need to switch on the RC flash mode

then you select the RC flash control menu via the info button (it replaces one of the other rear screen menus I think)

on that screen you now control the remote flash mode ie ttl etc, make sure the channel is matched etc

sounds complex but it's 10 secs - honest

now the camera pop up is the remote controller but the actual amount of the output is tiny and won't register on your subject. the 36R is fully controlled from the camera menu.............

off you go

Jonesgj
7th February 2009, 09:35 PM
Hi Photo Owl,

I have experimented some more using the mode you have suggested. And found (I think) a setting to turn down the pop-up flash out-put, and I think it works!

It's late now, so will play again tomorrow, but I think the problem may be solved.

Thanks to everyone else for contributing.

Kind regards

Graydon

Makonde
7th February 2009, 09:46 PM
I suspect you may still be in slave mode - i.e. off-camera flash triggered by a flash from elsewhere - the popup.

When it's in RC mode the popup has to be up but it doesn't emit a flash in the visible spectrum at all - just an IR beam that triggers the flash if RC mode and a shared channel is set on both camera and flash. The beam means you have to have the receptor on the flash in line of sight of the popup on camera.

You need to read both the manual that came with the camera and the one that came with the flash...

photo_owl
7th February 2009, 10:07 PM
I suspect you may still be in slave mode - i.e. off-camera flash triggered by a flash from elsewhere - the popup.

When it's in RC mode the popup has to be up but it doesn't emit a flash in the visible spectrum at all - just an IR beam that triggers the flash if RC mode and a shared channel is set on both camera and flash. The beam means you have to have the receptor on the flash in line of sight of the popup on camera.

You need to read both the manual that came with the camera and the one that came with the flash...

sorry but this is wrong - in command mode the flash is in the visible spectrum, it's white, the same temperature as normal flash.

equally it's not a beam (well it is as is all light emmission) and it works fine as reflected light in reasonable proximity as well as direct.

Makonde
8th February 2009, 12:34 PM
Yes, you're right. Had to re-read the manual myself!

How does it allow for four separate channels, to prevent the RC flash being triggered by other peoples' nearby systems?

photo_owl
8th February 2009, 01:46 PM
I don't know Keith!

but not only do you have the channels but within them you are able to control of your flash groups independently

all with light

clever isn't it

prudent
4th October 2009, 07:51 PM
I have just read this post hoping to find a solution but... In the slave mode on a full power setting 1:1 my FL36R shows a flash but my camera does not catch it. It works fine on any lower level but not on the highest one. It looks there is no synchro... Any suggestions, experience, advices?

photo_owl
5th October 2009, 03:00 PM
I have just read this post hoping to find a solution but... In the slave mode on a full power setting 1:1 my FL36R shows a flash but my camera does not catch it. It works fine on any lower level but not on the highest one. It looks there is no synchro... Any suggestions, experience, advices?

1. what camera?
2. what flash mode on the camera?
3. what exposure mode on camera (A, S, M, Auto, P)/
4. if M or S - what shutter speed is set?

Any increase in flash output would be as a result of increased flash duration (in non FP modes which all slave modes are) so the increase in the flash output setting should improve any synch issue not the otherway round.

prudent
5th October 2009, 05:23 PM
1. E-520
2. FL36R in slave mode
3. Tried with both A and M
4. In A I limited shutter speed to 1/60 then to 1/30, in M tried different settings
The result is always the same - on flash power setting 1:1 there is a flash but it's not captured by camera. All other power settings work fine...

stevednp3
5th October 2009, 05:23 PM
When I bought the FL36R to take wireless shots I thought it would work without the popup and I have only been able to control the flash remotely with the pop up on my e-30

I have done a few test shots and the light from the pop up is not visable at all in my photos, so Ive not been to bothered about it

I have read the manual carefully and cant find a way to trigger the flash without the popup flash, if anyone does know way to fire the flash without the popup I would also love to know how, thanks

prudent
5th October 2009, 05:39 PM
Let's start from beginning:
1. Very close - you may trigger your flash with your camera hot shoe.
2. A bit further - you may trigger your flash with a cable from your camera to your flash
3. Further - you may trigger your flash with your popup flash directly, sending a short burst of light, if your flash is in a slave mode
4. Close to 3 - your may trigger yor flash intelligently with your popup flash, sending a serie preflashes setting your flash and triggering it. Your camera will not see preflashes as they will be earlier than your shot
5. Far - you may trigger your flash with any wireless trigger working on radio (invisible) frequencies.
6. Far far away - you may send your buddy with your flash far far away, set your camera to Bulb, press a shutter button and give him a call with your mobile to press flash test button (may be few times...) You'll smile but it can also work...
I don't know more ways. Anybody?

photo_owl
5th October 2009, 05:56 PM
Prudent has listed the lateral thinking solutions - the answer to the question you are really asking is "you can't because the pop up is the RC flash control unit" the end.

photo_owl
5th October 2009, 05:57 PM
1. E-520
2. FL36R in slave mode
3. Tried with both A and M
4. In A I limited shutter speed to 1/60 then to 1/30, in M tried different settings
The result is always the same - on flash power setting 1:1 there is a flash but it's not captured by camera. All other power settings work fine...

Q2 was what is the flash mode on the camera - not the flash. I don't want to jump to conclusions .......

prudent
5th October 2009, 06:39 PM
I used both Auto and Fill-in flash modes. What makes me confused - any remote flash in slave mode can be triggered by either main flash or (in some modes like red-eye mode) by preflash. But IMHO this should happen in any power settings of the remote flash. I have a problem when my remote flash is set to Full power...

prudent
5th October 2009, 06:41 PM
...if anyone does know way to fire the flash without the popup...

Well, I think I answered THIS question, as minimum in pp 1,2,5,6. Didn't I?...:)

photo_owl
5th October 2009, 07:11 PM
I used both Auto and Fill-in flash modes. What makes me confused - any remote flash in slave mode can be triggered by either main flash or (in some modes like red-eye mode) by preflash. But IMHO this should happen in any power settings of the remote flash. I have a problem when my remote flash is set to Full power...

got it - and I seem to be able to duplicate this *chr when trying to trigger the FL unit is M SL mode with the camera's pop up in many modes

however it works perfectly when I use another FL unit in the hot shoe in M mode to trigger the M SL unit - at all levels

now to understand what's happening. this may be related to the mode the pop-up is operating in, but here it doesn't seem to make any sense the 1/1 doesn't work when 1/2 seems to (from quick test). this may be related to the inability to use the on board unit in pure M mode itself in most modes (can't remember the exact spec) but there's a long thread on that somewhere here!

finally remembered - using the built in flash you have to disable RC mode in menu to get access to the M flash modes in A mode. doing this I have no problem triggering the FL unit in SL M mode effectively in all (it's) power levels.

as to why the SL M seems to work OK at powers below 1/1 when triggered by the pop up with RC mode enabled - beats me without a lot more testing (inc osciliscopes) and as it's not designed to work that way I'm not too bothered.