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Harold Gough
28th January 2017, 06:42 AM
Kapersky in trouble:

https://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2017/01/26/kaspersky-interesting/?kasperskytreason=&ad_id=504890&share-ad-id=1

Harold

Naughty Nigel
31st January 2017, 12:24 AM
Hmmm. Very interesting indeed.

I guess it takes one to catch one? *yes

I will continue to use and trust Kaspersky on all of my machines. It works better than any antivirus app from the other side of the pond!

I wonder if Melania is also on the board? :)

Phill D
31st January 2017, 08:07 AM
Very interesting especially the link that shows where each of the AV programmes are developed. Some very surprising results.

pdk42
31st January 2017, 08:37 AM
Wow - scary! Vindicates my decision to never use anti-virus systems and to turn off all the various location/usage/etc features in the OS. If LR ran on Linux, I'd dump Windows entirely.

Naughty Nigel
31st January 2017, 09:45 AM
Wow - scary! Vindicates my decision to never use anti-virus systems and to turn off all the various location/usage/etc features in the OS. If LR ran on Linux, I'd dump Windows entirely.

Do you really think it is safer to not use any antivirus at all rather than to risk one developed in Russia?

That all assumes that Russia is the only possible threat to our security. Haven't I heard that before somewhere? *ohwell

Bikie John
31st January 2017, 10:27 AM
The Beeb showed a rather thought-provoking documentary a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08bcc18/storyville-zero-days-nuclear-cyber-sabotage

I've only watched it once, it has so many intertwining threads that I haven't understood it all yet. Of course it needs to be taken with appropriate pinches of salt, but a lot of it seems fairly genuine and some of the implications are alarming whatever the truth of the underlying allegations.

John

Otto
31st January 2017, 10:29 AM
I don't use any anti-virus software. I have ZoneAlarm Pro firewall to keep out the drive-bys and Mailwasher to screen e-mail. Never had a problem with viruses or other nasties in many many years.

pdk42
31st January 2017, 11:25 AM
Do you really think it is safer to not use any antivirus at all rather than to risk one developed in Russia?

That all assumes that Russia is the only possible threat to our security. Haven't I heard that before somewhere? *ohwell

Anti virus systems are not the catch all that many think. New threats are constantly in circulation and most people's AV is not sufficiently up to date to catch them (even assuming the AV supplier has acted in good time). Most viruses get onto computers by installing software or executing. EXE files received on dubious mails or downloads. A modicum of common sense goes a long way to defeating that.

What I object to with AV systems is the usual significant impact they impose on the computer's performance and usability. In a way, they're a sort of virus in themselves! It's not an orthodox view, but there are well qualified others that agree with me:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/android-security-boss-anti-virus-apps-are-pointless-1257163

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wired.com/2012/03/antivirus/amp/?client=ms-android-samsung

Otto
31st January 2017, 11:42 AM
I agree with Paul. I bought a small "net-top" PC a few years ago to use as a multi-media system and it came with McAfee pre-installed. When playing audio or video (its primary purpose as advertised!) it would keep stuttering which I eventually traced to the AV software. McAfee was promptly uninstalled since when I've had no further issues. I tried one of the freebies some time ago, AVG I think, and that too slowed the computer noticeably and unacceptably. I run Malwarebytes occasionally but it has never found anything harmful.

Naughty Nigel
31st January 2017, 12:30 PM
Anti virus systems are not the catch all that many think. New threats are constantly in circulation and most people's AV is not sufficiently up to date to catch them (even assuming the AV supplier has acted in good time). Most viruses get onto computers by installing software or executing. EXE files received on dubious mails or downloads. A modicum of common sense goes a long way to defeating that.

What I object to with AV systems is the usual significant impact they impose on the computer's performance and usability. In a way, they're a sort of virus in themselves! It's not an orthodox view, but there are well qualified others that agree with me:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/android-security-boss-anti-virus-apps-are-pointless-1257163

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wired.com/2012/03/antivirus/amp/?client=ms-android-samsung

Paul, I can see your point about the validity of antivirus programmes per se, but good security programmes (rather than antivirus apps alone) will detect and intercept 'virus like activity' before the virus signature has been published.

I find that Kaspersky has a minimal effect on system performance, and is updated hourly. I have also been surprised how many nasties it finds in machines that are allegedly protected (and slowed to a crawl) by the likes of Norton and MacAfee.

I am under no illusions that these systems have one or more 'back doors', but I am sure that applies to almost everything. However, the article doesn't suggest that Kaspersky Labs has done anything wrong or is a security risk; only that it has close links with the Russian government.

From what we have heard in recent weeks it would seem the Russians have cleverer hackers than the CIA. Perhaps the Yanks should invest in Kaspersky Internet Security rather than trusting Norton/MacAfee! :D

Jim Ford
31st January 2017, 12:51 PM
In a way, they're a sort of virus in themselves! It's not an orthodox view, but there are well qualified others that agree with me

I used to closely follow security newsgroups, and there were contributors that stated the same. The consensus amongst the 'experts' was that if you became infected your system was compromised and you should 'flatten and rebuild'. AV products were considered to be 'snake oil'.

Jim

Ricoh
15th June 2017, 09:37 PM
I remember reading this thread and made a mental note to revisit when my subscription to McAfee was about to expire.
As a fresh install, McAfee was almost unobtrusive with minimal impact on responsiveness, or so it seemed. However, with time, i have noted the laptop becoming more sluggish, just a perception, nothing concrete but it ties in with the experience / opinions of others here.

I'm interested in Zone Alarm as an alternative, but I understand it needs quite a bit of user interaction to train the firewall what to allow and what to deny. One of the application notes I've read suggests using a personal log and reading about each programme before granting access - sounds a bit time consuming up front, but improves over time as a consensus is reached.

The free version comes as a basic firewall and anti-virus, I believe, and the paid version has the addition of anti-spyware, application control and PC tune up (not sure how application control differs from a firewall, and although I understand, in principle, what PC tune-up means, I'm not not sure what it does in practice). What do the knowledgeable people here recommend?

Harold Gough
16th June 2017, 05:46 AM
I now have trend Micro Security (Online) and malware seems to now be history.

I also have CryptoPrevent and Cybereason Ransomefree.

Harold

Ricoh
16th June 2017, 07:39 AM
I now have trend Micro Security (Online) and malware seems to now be history.

I also have CryptoPrevent and Cybereason Ransomefree.

Harold
Are these in addition to ZA, or have you switched?

Ideally, I'm looking for security without it slowing the computer to the extent that it becomes perceptible.

Harold Gough
16th June 2017, 07:56 AM
Are these in addition to ZA, or have you switched?

Ideally, I'm looking for security without it slowing the computer to the extent that it becomes perceptible.

The only other such software I have is installed is SUPERAntiSpyware Pro and (rarely used) CC Cleaner. I have 24/7 access to Reimage Repair Advanced Supersupport. Anything else has been uninstalled.


I have Carbonite online backup of files.

The only software which seems (not verified) to slow the PC is if I set a large number of RAW files to be given DxO prime processing.

Harold

Naughty Nigel
16th June 2017, 08:19 AM
Are these in addition to ZA, or have you switched?

Ideally, I'm looking for security without it slowing the computer to the extent that it becomes perceptible.

I would reiterate that I use Kaspersky Internet Security, and it has minimal impact on performance, and so far has been thoroughly reliable. This seems to be borne out by reviews in PC Pro magazine and elsewhere.

If the Russians can win an American election by hacking computers then their antivirus has to be worth considering! *yes

If you have a Barclays account you can get it free on three computers!

Ricoh
16th June 2017, 08:58 AM
I would reiterate that I use Kaspersky Internet Security, and it has minimal impact on performance, and so far has been thoroughly reliable. This seems to be borne out by reviews in PC Pro magazine and elsewhere.

If the Russians can win an American election by hacking computers then their antivirus has to be worth considering! *yes

If you have a Barclays account you can get it free on three computers!
Thanks Nigel

As time is in short supply, the downside of ZA is the need to teach the firewall, which sounds like a chunk of investment - of time. So something 'out of the box' that works and minimises performance overall is attractive.
I had a quick 'Google' of Kaspersky, there's quite a variety of options available: Kaspersky Internet security, Kaspersky total security, all with and a variety of pricing to match. No Barclays so I'll be flashing the plastic, which begs the question: I'm vulnerable showing my credit card on-line before Kaspersky is up and running, or is there a trial period so security is present before purchase?

Naughty Nigel
16th June 2017, 10:21 AM
Kaspersky allows a thirty day trial period.

There are one or two 'features' that you may find irritating, the protected payment window being one of them, but these can be disabled if needed.

We have to be PCI Compliant because we handle customer' card details. As part of this our system is remotely scanned for vulnerabilities twice monthly, and always passes. However, we do also use a Draytek hardware firewall.

Ricoh
16th June 2017, 10:39 AM
Thanks once more Nigel.
I looked at the free trial, but it doesn't state cost once the period of grace expires. Alternatively, a straight purchase of £19.99 as an example. Can be as little as under £10 (think I saw £7.99) or up to £49.99. Definitely aimed at confusion.

Olybirder
16th June 2017, 11:02 AM
We got Kaspersky Internet Security for my partner's laptop when her year's free McAfee expired. We chose it as it came out top in a Which test, it was very reasonably priced and we were able to buy a copy from the local Argos store.

It makes the initial start up quite a bit slower, as it checks everything for updates, but when it is running it doesn't appear to have any adverse effects on speed. It makes a good job of blocking pop up adverts and banners and scripts too, which I wasn't expecting.

I agree with Nigel that the protected payment window is a PITA but my partner uses it because she is rather paranoid about online transactions at the momen. Someone managed to get her card details somehow and made about £7000 of purchases before she noticed. We were surprised and disappointed that the Coop Bank didn't notice the unusual activity and contact her. She got the money back but had to wait a week for her new card to arrive, which was very inconvenient.

Ron

Ricoh
16th June 2017, 11:11 AM
Thanks Ron
This payment protection window is part of PCI, am I correct? Apart from physical security, financial security is a real concern for most, as such I would have thought it beneficial. In what way is it a PITA - is it a case of slowing transactions, or is there more to it?
(Sorry asking so many questions, and I do appreciate these replies.)

Naughty Nigel
16th June 2017, 12:14 PM
Thanks Ron
This payment protection window is part of PCI, am I correct? Apart from physical security, financial security is a real concern for most, as such I would have thought it beneficial. In what way is it a PITA - is it a case of slowing transactions, or is there more to it?
(Sorry asking so many questions, and I do appreciate these replies.)

The payment protection window is nothing to do with PCI, but the option to use it usually pops up when a card number is requested. I decline and Continue in Same Window because it often seems to stop responding as no pop ups are allowed, including the Visa payment verification window, so the payment fails. I think there is a way you can disable it altogether.

As for pricing you will get the best deal on a licence for three or more machines. I last paid £160 for ten desktops/laptops and one file server.

I think we are on Small Office Security 4 or 5 now. (I am using my iPad at the moment so I cannot check.)

Newer versions delay certain functions until a few seconds after Windows has loaded so the effect on startup speed is minimal.

Naughty Nigel
16th June 2017, 12:37 PM
I agree with Nigel that the protected payment window is a PITA but my partner uses it because she is rather paranoid about online transactions at the momen. Someone managed to get her card details somehow and made about £7000 of purchases before she noticed. We were surprised and disappointed that the Coop Bank didn't notice the unusual activity and contact her. She got the money back but had to wait a week for her new card to arrive, which was very inconvenient.

Ron

I don't think the Coop bank will be any worse than the others Ron.

I was going to say it was like choosing political parties these days but then thought better of it! :)

None of the banks has human beings checking accounts any more, and it is perfectly possible to have accounts emptied without anyone noticing. My wife's firm's account was emptied of more than £one million in a series of £130,000 payments, and the (nationalised) bank didn't notice because it didn't go overdrawn!

I have to say that I do like Barclays security, and they do allow instant text alerts on withdrawals, but I gether the databases behind these systems are ancient, and if you know how are probably easier to compromise than the flashy customer facing apps.


Edit. I only say 'nationalised' to narrow down on the bank concerned without actually naming it. It seems the banks have a massive problem with fraud and security, but they seem to take the view that it is cheaper and easier to let most of it go than to persue and draw attention to every fraud, especially when many are 'inside jobs'.

Otto
16th June 2017, 12:53 PM
I'm interested in Zone Alarm as an alternative, but I understand it needs quite a bit of user interaction to train the firewall what to allow and what to deny. One of the application notes I've read suggests using a personal log and reading about each programme before granting access - sounds a bit time consuming up front, but improves over time as a consensus is reached.

The free version comes as a basic firewall and anti-virus, I believe, and the paid version has the addition of anti-spyware, application control and PC tune up (not sure how application control differs from a firewall, and although I understand, in principle, what PC tune-up means, I'm not not sure what it does in practice). What do the knowledgeable people here recommend?

The free version of ZoneAlarm is a firewall only, no anti-virus is included. I use ZoneAlarm Pro which gives you more control over the firewall and offers some identity protection but again, no anti-virus. More expensive versions do include an AV and anti-spyware functions but I've never tried those - the basic version has kept me safe for years. The current versions install easily and don't need any operator intervention I don't think as the software knows what sort of apps most people use and sets itself up accordingly.

I trust ZA to kep out drive-bys and other intrusions but it won't protect against nasties delivered by e-mail. Mailwasher does that very effectively however by identifying spam, viruses and phishing attempts before they get downloaded from the e-mail server. You can preview messages and manually mark them for deletion. It also has filters, blacklist and friends lists, and a bounce facility which can make the sender think your e-mail address doesn't exist. The desktop/laptop version comes with a free version for your phone/tablet as well. The software learns what you mark as spam and in time can start to mark it automatically. When you "wash" your mail all messages marked for deletion are wiped from the server so they cannot damage your machine.

Ricoh
16th June 2017, 01:56 PM
I have some concern my laptop has been compromised (e.g. someone has set up a DD on my wife's on-line bank account) as a consequence I've ordered a copy of Kaspersky from Argos. I should be in a position to rock and roll tomorrow. Hoping any spyware or whatever nasty, if any, can be purged after the event.

Naughty Nigel
16th June 2017, 02:37 PM
Kaspersky provides a free download to scan systems for nasties even if you have a competitor's AV installed.

I'm not sure whether it picks up adware though.