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G2EWS
18th December 2016, 09:01 AM
Morning all,

Thought I would let you know that whilst out and about doing a bit of street photography yesterday the OMD EM1 MkII locked up twice!

I had the new 12-100 on both times and I am certain it was as I took a few shots very quickly. Not in multi shot, but pressing the shutter myself.

Only way out was to remove the battery.

Will keep an eye on it and report back if it happens again and what circumstances.

Regards


Chris

pdk42
18th December 2016, 09:16 AM
Guess you'll need to wait for firmware v 1.1 (or 1.2 or 2.0).
Lots of new tech = lots of new software = bugs!

G2EWS
18th December 2016, 09:22 AM
You may well be right Paul,

Guess I am interested to see if anyone else has experienced the same problem.

Regards

Chris

birdboy
18th December 2016, 09:51 AM
I wonder if this is a lens related problem Andy (andym) reported a similar problem and he was using a 12-100. I have not had any lock up problems yet touch wood and have used a variety of lenses edit but not the 12-100.

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 10:21 AM
It could be a memory card issue. It is known to happen even on £5000 Leicas!!!
I'm aware the EM1 MK II has two card slots. I would try shooting with one card for a period of time, and using a card that you have gained confidence with, eg having used in another camera for some time without issue (remembering to format in the MK II).

Zuiko
18th December 2016, 10:25 AM
I'll let you guys iron out the bugs and in 5 years I'll buy one of your cameras in perfect working order for about £250. :p :D

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 10:31 AM
I'll let you guys iron out the bugs and in 5 years I'll buy one of your cameras in perfect working order for about £250. :p :D
Best to buy some spare batteries now, John, in 5 years they could be obsolete. (Nah, course not in 5 years, but in 10 years probably odds on).

G2EWS
18th December 2016, 10:39 AM
Using the same cards and only one that I use in my MkI's.

Chris

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 10:52 AM
Plural of card, not sure if you were using two simultaneously. To help you and Olympus diagnose the issue, you need to limit the number of variables. So just use one card for a period of time. If it still happens, try ctrl-alt-del, ie a factory reset, and run with the initial setup for a period of time.
I always find cameras lockup when you're just about to capture that 'once in a lifetime' decisive moment, never to be repeated. It's just as well our lives don't depend on such issues!

G2EWS
18th December 2016, 10:55 AM
Hi Steve,

My bad.

Just one card. But the same as I used in one of my MkI's.

No problem out with the dog just now with the 40-150mm. So will see later when I go out again but will put the 12-100mm back on.

Regards

Chris

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 11:32 AM
Instead of waiting for picture opportunities, fire off 100 or so shots, 1000 shots etc, of anything, see if the fault can be replicated. If so, you could ask for it to be fixed, and then if it fails again you have the right to a replacement.

Gwyver
18th December 2016, 11:36 AM
I had a couple of lock-ups in the past month with the 12-100 Pro on my Mk1 EM1 - but powered off & on again and didn't think much more about it.

Maybe there is a problem is with the 12-100 firmware?

G2EWS
18th December 2016, 12:51 PM
Hi Steve,

Had already planned to sit in the conservatory with a glass of vino shortly and fire off a few shots. Certainly not as many as 1,000 though!


Hi Chris,

It certainly seems like the common factor. Will see how it goes.

The MkII needed the battery removed, turning off did nothing. It still had the last photo I took in the EVF until the battery was removed.

Regards

Chris

Bikie John
18th December 2016, 01:01 PM
Oh dear. The symptoms you describe Chris sound horribly familiar. Something else to be aware of is that if you have changed any options (ISO, focussing mode etc.) since switching the camera on, when you resuscitate it by removing and replacing the battery the body will probably go back to how it was when you last switched it on.

There seems to be a new plague of lock-ups - when the E-M1 Mark I came out some people had no problems at all while others (including me) were plagued with lockups. Eventually after a lot of firmware upgrades and a replacement body they went away - but I got them again recently when using C-AF with the 300mm f/4. Upgrading the firmware in both lens and body seems to have fixed that, touch wood.

These problems must be very difficult for Olympus to diagnose. When I was getting lots of lockups in the early days of the Mark 1 I could never reproduce it to order. It would work fine whenever I tested it, and then wait for a critical point in the game before failing. Which is reminiscent of Murphy's Law:

The toast always lands butter-side down, except when required to do so to demonstrate Murphy's Law.

I hope they get it ironed out soon.

John

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 01:25 PM
Hi Steve,

Had already planned to sit in the conservatory with a glass of vino shortly and fire off a few shots. Certainly not as many as 1,000 though!


Hi Chris,

It certainly seems like the common factor. Will see how it goes.

The MkII needed the battery removed, turning off did nothing. It still had the last photo I took in the EVF until the battery was removed.

Regards

Chris
It happened a couple of times with my M240, but since updating the firmware to the latest... I'm just off to touch some wood.

David M
18th December 2016, 01:29 PM
I'll let you guys iron out the bugs and in 5 years I'll buy one of your cameras in perfect working order for about £250. :p :D

Early adopters have been beta testers for Olympus since the OM4 started shipping in the early 80's.

Ricoh
18th December 2016, 01:37 PM
Early adopters have been beta testers for Olympus since the OM4 started shipping in the early 80's.
And for every other manufacturer under the sun. Olympus are no different, it's a facet of technology. Software and firmware, and under limiting conditions even hardware, are so complex that the human designer cannot possibly discover all the design errors. It's for this reason that fly by wire aircraft have multiple processing systems, with an arbiter as well. Each hardware design solution is different, and the software different too, in terms of programming language and compiler. This is chosen to minimise the risk of human failure.

David M
18th December 2016, 01:51 PM
And for every other manufacturer under the sun. Olympus are no different, it's a facet of technology. Software and firmware, and under limiting conditions even hardware, are so complex that the human designer cannot possibly discover all the design errors. It's for this reason that fly by wire aircraft have multiple processing systems, with an arbiter as well. Each hardware design solution is different, and the software different too, in terms of programming language and compiler. This is chosen to minimise the risk of human failure.

One reason why I turned down the offer of a R system in the mid 90's. I'd already thrown my OM4 across a car park but knew I could rely on my OM2n's to get the shot.

I remember Nikon and Canon having issues with some of their 'pro' models over the years, the F3 being particularly amusing as it affected some of my competitors at the time.

Zuiko
18th December 2016, 05:30 PM
Early adopters have been beta testers for Olympus since the OM4 started shipping in the early 80's.

I was late to the game even back then with the OM4Ti. Initially I couldn't see the point of the all-singing, all-dancing newcomer as I thought my OM-1 did all I required. That only changed when the manager of my local camera shop phoned to tell me he had taken a mint 4Ti in part exchange and thought I might be interested. Initially I declined but he offered to let me try it over the weekend and on Monday I was back at the shop flexing my credit card. I experienced none of the battery drain or circuit board problems of the original OM-4.

David M
18th December 2016, 05:48 PM
I was late to the game even back then with the OM4Ti. Initially I couldn't see the point of the all-singing, all-dancing newcomer as I thought my OM-1 did all I required. That only changed when the manager of my local camera shop phoned to tell me he had taken a mint 4Ti in part exchange and thought I might be interested. Initially I declined but he offered to let me try it over the weekend and on Monday I was back at the shop flexing my credit card. I experienced none of the battery drain or circuit board problems of the original OM-4.

I had one of the first batch of OM4 into the UK so had discovered two of the problems before anything appeared in the photo press. Olympus had already replaced the metering stud on the lens mount of mine before they issued a warning.

But I've never understood why I had so many shutter and circuit board issues compared to other OM4/4Ti users.

My OM1 on the other hand suffered massive abuse and never let me down.

G2EWS
18th December 2016, 08:43 PM
Having thought about this more, I realised there was one other possible addition to the settings that may have added to the problem.

The camera was set with a preview of the photo you just took. I had not turned this feature off when it happened.

However I turned it back on and could not get it to fail this afternoon.

So Murphy's law will have to see if it strikes again.

I do understand there may be a software update for the lens as well. so will also look into that later.

Regards

Chris

Ross the fiddler
18th December 2016, 09:36 PM
Having thought about this more, I realised there was one other possible addition to the settings that may have added to the problem.

The camera was set with a preview of the photo you just took. I had not turned this feature off when it happened.

However I turned it back on and could not get it to fail this afternoon.

So Murphy's law will have to see if it strikes again.

I do understand there may be a software update for the lens as well. so will also look into that later.

Regards

Chris

The latest FW update 4.2 for the E-M1 has issues similarly around the same operation (with Rec View off). I wonder if there is a related FW bug?

Mdb2
18th December 2016, 10:53 PM
I would have thought with all of the Olympus ambassadors worldwide trying out the gear before it goes on sale to the public, these problems should of been sorted?
But that's me being old fashioned!
Kind regards mike

pdk42
18th December 2016, 11:10 PM
I would have thought with all of the Olympus ambassadors worldwide trying out the gear before it goes on sale to the public, these problems should of been sorted?
But that's me being old fashioned!
Kind regards mike

We've probably multiplied by 100, or even 1000 the number of people using the camera now so it's not surprising if hard-to-find bugs manifest themselves more frequently.

Bassman51
19th December 2016, 01:30 AM
Two lockups in the last 24 hours.

Two well-broken in SD cards in slots 1 and 2. Neither are UHS-II.
Panasonic 35-100/2.8 mounted both times.

Incident 1: camera locked with a highly disfocused image in the EVF. LCD was turned inward. Dismounting and remou ting the lens had no effect. Power off/on worked, but had no effect. Other buttons inoperative.

Incident 2: in the video menu, entire camera locked. All buttons including power lever inop.

In both cases removing the battery resolved the problem.

Bassman51
21st December 2016, 01:50 AM
Two instances of lockup over the weekend, both resolved by removing the battery, both with the Panasonic 35-100/2.8 mounted.

- the camera froze after being turned on with a blurry image in the EVF, nothing on the LCD and all buttons including power unresponsive

- the camera froze a second time while shooting. This time the power lever worked, but had no other effect. An image was frozen on the LCD. No other controls responded.

Grumpy Hec
21st December 2016, 09:16 AM
We've probably multiplied by 100, or even 1000 the number of people using the camera now so it's not surprising if hard-to-find bugs manifest themselves more frequently.

Absolutely. Some things are incredibly hard to find in testing.

Many years ago I used to install and commission electronic telephone exchanges. We used to use large testers to generate millions of calls to try and simulate load conditions and odd combinations of calls, routes and the like. Yet in spite of that it was not unusual to get strange bugs appear, sometimes within minutes, of putting real customers onto the exchange. People do unexpected things and in the right combination of circumstances bugs appear.

Similar things happened later in my career when I dealt with pure software. No matter how much carefully planned testing you do when you try and predict all sorts of combinations of events, when real usage occurs its not uncommon to see bugs. It is frustrating for all and actually expensive for the company as cost of failure is typically twice that, at least, of getting it right first time.

Hec

birdboy
21st December 2016, 11:49 AM
I had something like a lockup yesterday. I was using the Procapture mode with the Olympus 300mm f4 Pro lens and when I went to view the pictures using the blue button nothing happened I could however scroll though the menus. I could not take another picture and there was nothing indicating that camera was saving. The battery was low at about 20%. Turning on and off had no effect but taking the battery out and in did work and it was back to normal operation. It was not long after this that the battery ran out so I am thinking battery related.

shenstone
21st December 2016, 12:12 PM
The definition given to me when I started programming

Only trivial programs have no bugs when first coded
Therefore any program with no bugs first time is trivial
The skill is in not creating trivial bugs in complex code
Learn from your mistakes and don't do them again

My experience ... The trouble with really complex things is that it is rarely just one developer and most problems are inter subsystem communications

Regards
Andy

Ricoh
21st December 2016, 12:45 PM
Part of the problem is in the inability to write an unambiguous requirement specifications, enter Rational Rhapsody based on UML, using graphical models.

Grumpy Hec
21st December 2016, 04:03 PM
Part of the problem is in the inability to write an unambiguous requirement specifications, enter Rational Rhapsody based on UML, using graphical models.

Ah yes. Requirements capture and speccing. That along with unrealistic cost estimates due to the sales team wanting to keep the price appearing low are, I would suggest from my experience, the two most common reasons for IT project problems or indeed failures.

Major projects typically are specified by a management team as opposed to the people who will use them and therefore when a beta is delivered for test it doesn't work as needed. I would suggest that the problems with NHS projects are caused by this along with unrealistic timescales.

Anyway we are getting off topic so apologies.

Hec

Beagletorque
22nd December 2016, 10:38 AM
Just experienced the lock up too! Was shooting in Silent Low with the 300 f4 and it locked after a short burst. Only remedy was battery out.

G2EWS
22nd December 2016, 10:57 AM
Beginning to look like an EM1 MkII problem with the differing lenses.

Regards

Chris

Ricoh
22nd December 2016, 11:35 AM
Ah yes. Requirements capture and speccing. That along with unrealistic cost estimates due to the sales team wanting to keep the price appearing low are, I would suggest from my experience, the two most common reasons for IT project problems or indeed failures.

Major projects typically are specified by a management team as opposed to the people who will use them and therefore when a beta is delivered for test it doesn't work as needed. I would suggest that the problems with NHS projects are caused by this along with unrealistic timescales.

Anyway we are getting off topic so apologies.

Hec
I can see you've experienced the same methodology. Spec writing is a highly skilled task, and it's vital to have reviews at various levels prior to release to the designers. The often forgotten requirements are the ones that ask the question, what should it do if X happens, ie the unexpected. The easy thing is to define what should happen in an orderly progression of events. If you want to cut development costs, do it right.

Beagletorque
23rd December 2016, 11:04 AM
I reported the problem direct to Olympus and had an email back this am asking for further info. If you have had the problem then I encourage you to report it via your myolympus account.

Beagletorque
23rd December 2016, 02:27 PM
Olympus current thinking appear to be that it only occurs when you use a memory card that has not been formatted in the camera first. If this is not the case for you then shout!

Bassman51
23rd December 2016, 03:28 PM
While I can't swear that I formatted the two cards in the camera, that is my normal practice. I either formatted or erased them in-camera. Neither were UHS-II cards.

Beagletorque
23rd December 2016, 03:43 PM
Hi Bassman, welcome to the forum!

Do send a message to Olympus to tell them what happened, it will help them out and you may get a voucher!

birdboy
23rd December 2016, 04:34 PM
Olympus current thinking appear to be that it only occurs when you use a memory card that has not been formatted in the camera first. If this is not the case for you then shout!

I had a new lexar 64GB 2000x UHS-II in slot 1, was shooting from slot 1 and had formatted the card in slot 1. I am thinking that as there are 2 processors in this camera it is only affecting one, thats why I was able to scroll around the menus. It would be interesting to know which processor is doing which functions. I have not reported my incident yet as I am expecting to repeat the lockup in which I will collect as much data as I can at the time.

Bikie John
23rd December 2016, 07:36 PM
What further information are you expecting to collect, John? I would have thought that the EXIF in the last shot before it locked up will have all the settings info, and you should have that already. With previous lockups with the mark I it can lock up at any time, not just when trying to take a shot or writing it to the card.

John

birdboy
23rd December 2016, 09:52 PM
What further information are you expecting to collect, John? I would have thought that the EXIF in the last shot before it locked up will have all the settings info, and you should have that already. With previous lockups with the mark I it can lock up at any time, not just when trying to take a shot or writing it to the card.

John

I never found with the EM1 lockups that the exif provided help as to what was causing the problems, because it was not identified with any particular setting. From the early reports the MKII lockups seems to be going the same way. When the lockups happens I often find myself in the middle of something I cannot breakaway from, I just want the camera back working. What it requires is one to make as many detailed notes about the sequence of button presses and now that we have a setting with a good guide on battery condition is to make a proper note of that value, something I forgot to do with my lockup.

I do find it odd that with all the testing the experts had with this model nobody reported any lockups and yet a week into joe public having them the lockups starts. It maybe that the experts all had the benefit of an Olympus expert to help and guide them when something unexplained happened.

Mdb2
23rd December 2016, 11:42 PM
I do find it odd that with all the testing the experts had with this model nobody reported any lockups and yet a week into joe public having them the lockups starts. It maybe that the experts all had the benefit of an Olympus expert to help and guide them when something unexplained happened.

I concur (entry no 23 of thread) Quite a simple problem a full lock up needing the removal of battery to re-instate camera. I think the em1mk2 will be on a firmware update before too long? Along with maybe the new 12-100f4 hopefully I will be wrong. Just not good enough Olympus.
Kind regards mike

brian1208
24th December 2016, 09:25 AM
with the EM-1 lock-ups I found that when I checked the camera settings they had reverted to the previous state before the lock-up. it appeared that changing the settings I was using seemed to have locked the programme somehow, so it reverted to the previous "safe" condition

It may be interesting to see if something similar is happening here?

(no lock up yet for me)

Bikie John
24th December 2016, 11:04 AM
I think it is simpler than that, Brian. Nothing to do with "safe" settings - if you change the settings they will take effect, but are not committed to the camera's memory until you switch off. If the camera dies in flight for some reason the changed settings don't get saved, and when you switch it back on it will revert to the settings it had last time you switched it on.

John

Ricoh
24th December 2016, 11:11 AM
You guys should bite the bullet and go for W10, that should sort it :)

brian1208
24th December 2016, 11:25 AM
I think it is simpler than that, Brian. Nothing to do with "safe" settings - if you change the settings they will take effect, but are not committed to the camera's memory until you switch off. If the camera dies in flight for some reason the changed settings don't get saved, and when you switch it back on it will revert to the settings it had last time you switched it on.

John

makes sense John :)

Bassman51
25th December 2016, 11:03 PM
Two more lockups in quick succession just now. LCD turned in, P25/1.4 mounted, shooting the family at a holiday event. Bam! Popped battery. One shot later - bam!

Fortunately the mark 1 was nearby, so I switched.

I'm afraid the Mark ii has to go back.

Beagletorque
25th December 2016, 11:09 PM
Have you reported to Oly yet?

chphotos
25th December 2016, 11:47 PM
It seems that you're using Panasonic lenses when you've experienced lock ups. Have you tried using any Olympus lenses to see if you are still getting lock ups? Also, have you checked to make sure the Panasonic lens firmware is up to date? I've been using the Olympus 12-40 with my MK2 and have not experienced any problems.


Sent from my XT1572 using Tapatalk

Ricoh
26th December 2016, 12:41 AM
Two more lockups in quick succession just now. LCD turned in, P25/1.4 mounted, shooting the family at a holiday event. Bam! Popped battery. One shot later - bam!

Fortunately the mark 1 was nearby, so I switched.

I'm afraid the Mark ii has to go back.
It seems that consumer rights are more protective in the US in regard that the customer has the right to reject or return the product within a reasonable period of time after purchase.
With regard to Oly or Panny lenses, whatever the firmware installed, the camera should accommodate anything that has been made going back to year dot. I wonder if the requirement spec stated this, captured further in the interface definition?

Bassman51
26th December 2016, 01:48 AM
Have you reported to Oly yet?

Yes, I did.

benpanesar
27th December 2016, 11:39 PM
Hi Guys

Have the official Olympus folks actually responded to these issues at all? I had a face book session with an Olympus ambassador who will be travelling to the Antarctica very soon with all the Oly gear and is unaware of any issue regards to lock ups.
The Oly Facebook page does not indicate any issues with lockups so is this just a UK issue ?
Please note I've not had any issue with lock ups running 12-100/40-150 2.8/ and 45 1.8
so may be I've just been lucky!

Beagletorque
28th December 2016, 10:04 AM
I have had official responses from Olympus via email and they are aware of the occurrences (they knew there was more than 1). They lead me to believe that they believe it is an issue with memory card formatting, which needs to be done in camera. I think it would be unlikely that Olympus would broadcast on social media that they had a problem with the camera, even if they did. A US user (in this thread) has also reported a problem (multiple lockups with a Panny lens).

Ricoh
28th December 2016, 10:31 AM
Sounds like eye-wash...
Anyway, this is worth an experiment: try formatting the SD card exFAT using a computer and then further format the card in camera. With the Leica M240 and with the SD card formatted as explained, the start up time is reduced by one half.

Note: with the Leica the exFAT formatting is maintained after the secondary in-camera format.

Bassman51
28th December 2016, 03:43 PM
I spoke with Olympus tech support yesterday about my lockups. Their suggestions were not terribly enlightening or helpful. After listening to me go through my settings, the suggestions were (in order):

- full reset to factory settings
- use only Olympus lenses
- return the camera to the store

He did not acknowledge any prior reports of this problem. He did put me on hold a couple of times, presumably to consult with someone else.

I'm now using the only Oly lens I have with me this week, the 17/1.8.
I'll try the full reset next week after I backup the settings.
I have until 1 February to return it to B&H.

Ricoh
28th December 2016, 11:05 PM
Bassman51, you guys is the US get some extodinary service compared to us in the Uk, or it appears that way. If you exercise option 3, will you get the full purchase price without personal loss? If so that's fantastic.

Ross the fiddler
28th December 2016, 11:14 PM
Bassman51, you guys is the US get some extodinary service compared to us in the Uk, or it appears that way. If you exercise option 3, will you get the full purchase price without personal loss? If so that's fantastic.

Yes, but what happens to the returned goods? Do they sell them on later? Refurbished?

Zuiko
29th December 2016, 03:11 AM
Yes, but what happens to the returned goods? Do they sell them on later? Refurbished?

I believe they do. Refurbished stock is often listed on the Rumors site.

timboo
29th December 2016, 09:20 AM
Not sure if Olympus have twitter as Im not on Twitter, but from previous experience if I feel im getting little progress with a company a tweet often goes a long way. It can pickup momentum very quickly and get a swift response/resolution.

pault
29th December 2016, 09:44 AM
Hi,
In response to Beagletorque's message 53, elsewhere on the internet Lexar have reportedly acknowledged a possible firmware problem with 128gb 2000x UHS ii and talked through with someone re-formatting the memory card using their program Rescue 5.
Have people here checked out their memory card suitability?
Just a suggestion

Bassman51
29th December 2016, 12:52 PM
Steve:

B&H offer returns on most products. While normally 30 days, its extended now to accommodate holiday gifts.

birdboy
29th December 2016, 04:36 PM
If this is a memory card problem then I have a question which I am hoping Ian can answer.

When Olympus gave the new EM1 MKII to all those experienced visionaries did they also equipment them with memory cards and if they did which ones?

It is interesting to note that on their Australia web page they qualify the test results with "*When using Toshiba SDXU-B032G"

Growltiger
29th December 2016, 10:50 PM
The official Olympus website shows only various SanDisk and Toshiba cards are verified for use:
http://cs.olympus-imaging.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/compati/media/sd/en_2016_04.cfm

Many people have reported problems using the camera with Lexar cards.

I suggest if you want to use an unverified card you stick to putting in slot 2. For slot 1 use the recommended SanDisk UHS II card (they currently claim 260 MB/s write, 300MB/s Read). Use of this card should empty the buffer quickly when shooting long bursts. And it is suitable for 4K video.

Perhaps you will then find that your camera works reliably. Surely it is better to try this before sending the camera back. Hope this helps.

Bassman51
29th December 2016, 10:54 PM
...
I suggest if you want to use an unverified card you stick to putting in slot 2. For slot 1 use the recommended SanDisk UHS II 280MB/s card. Perhaps you will then find that your camera works reliably. Surely it is better to try this before sending the camera back. Hope this helps.

That's what I have in Slot 1. I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s UHS-1 Class 10 32G card in Slot 2.

Growltiger
29th December 2016, 10:59 PM
That's what I have in Slot 1. I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s UHS-1 Class 10 32G card in Slot 2.
Sorry the suggestion can't help in your case. It may apply to the problems of others. It would be a good idea for anyone getting lockups to report the card(s) they were using.

Bassman51
29th December 2016, 11:01 PM
No worries, I was giving my full card info for the general good. I didn't think there is a problem with any Sandisk cards.

c12402
8th February 2017, 04:01 PM
It looks a memory problem. It has been reported with Lexar SD cards something very similar. Try with another, even just to help isolate the issue.

Maria
8th February 2017, 06:18 PM
Only just noticed this thread - my camera locked up at weekend and I had to remove the battery to restart. I was using the Olympus 60mm macro lens at the time - the only Olympus lens I have at present and one I've not used on it much, as yet. The card is one I've used for some time on my GH4 and for 1000's shots in the EM1 MKII since I got it - it has been formatted in camera several times (Panasonic 64GB SDHC UHS-3 Class 10 Card).

I wouldn't have worried too much about one lock-up - my GH4 locked up a couple of times in around 3 years and even my other half's Canon full frame has done similar. It is however more worrying if lots of others have had issues - and multiple times. I didn't pay too much attention to what I was doing at the time - other than taking photos! Will pay more attention and report back, if it happens again.

Growltiger
8th February 2017, 06:21 PM
Why use an old card that is not approved for use with this camera?
You will find the link to the approved cards in message 63 above.

Maria
8th February 2017, 06:42 PM
Just because the card isn't on the list doesn't mean it won't work - just that it hasn't been tested. I must admit I hadn't checked this list - I don't really use video and haven't got any of the UHS-II cards that seemed to cause issues for some people. Now I've checked, it does appear I have a Sandisk one that is tested as compatible, so I'll use that.

Olybirder
30th May 2017, 09:58 PM
I was attempting to photograph Swifts this evening with my MkII and I experienced my first ever lock up (I never had a single one with my MkI.) The whole camera was dead, so I removed and replaced the battery and it worked again.

I was using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s card, which is on the Olympus approved list. The battery was freshly charged and I am using the latest firmware. I am a bit peed off to be honest, as the camera is only five days old. What is the state of play at the moment? Are other users still experiencing lock ups?

Ron

c12402
30th May 2017, 10:05 PM
Some lockups had been reported, apparently due to some early sd cards from Lexar. I've been using Lexar 300MB/s 32 and 64MB without any problem since some months and some 20k pictures. Have you upgraded the firmware?

Beagletorque
30th May 2017, 10:20 PM
I have had them too. Seems unrelated to anything in particular. Been in regular contact with Pete Huggan at Olympus and as far as I can tell they still have not quite got to the bottom of it. Last lock for me was 2 weeks ago.

Bassman51
30th May 2017, 11:06 PM
Had my first one in four months. Two Sandisk cards, one 300Mb/s and the other 95. Battery removal cured it.

Ricoh
30th May 2017, 11:15 PM
Ok I don't have an EM1 II, but if I did, and in the light of what I've read, I would keep the set up dead simple, straight-out-of-the-box-factory-settings, and then as a safety plan I'd perform a reset periodically, like every day; if I used it every day.
If it still locked up I would be onto the retailer like a ton of bricks (consumer rights act amended 2015 is worth reading).

Bikie John
31st May 2017, 07:14 AM
Touch wood, stroke rabbit's foot, chew garlic and everything else before committing this in writing - I have not had a single lockup with the Mark II.

My experience with the Mark I was sufficiently dreadful that I held off getting the Mark II until I had heard mostly positive stories and there had been at least one firmware update. The Mark I was so bad that I got it replaced by Oly, after which it behaved very well apart from a hiccup with C-AF on the 300mm f/4 which was fixed by a firmware update.

John

birdboy
31st May 2017, 09:04 AM
I was attempting to photograph Swifts this evening with my MkII and I experienced my first ever lock up (I never had a single one with my MkI.) The whole camera was dead, so I removed and replaced the battery and it worked again.

I was using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s card, which is on the Olympus approved list. The battery was freshly charged and I am using the latest firmware. I am a bit peed off to be honest, as the camera is only five days old. What is the state of play at the moment? Are other users still experiencing lock ups?

Ron

Were you using a high drive mode. When I first got the MKII I was using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s card and found it too slow for high frame rates where it appeared to freeze but just took a lot time to save to the card. I changed it for a Lexar 64GB 2000x (300MB/s) and the difference in write speed was so much better. I have had a few unexplained appearances of lock ups with the Lexar card however.

Olybirder
31st May 2017, 09:20 AM
Were you using a high drive mode. When I first got the MKII I was using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s card and found it too slow for high frame rates where it appeared to freeze but just took a lot time to save to the card. I changed it for a Lexar 64GB 2000x (300MB/s) and the difference in write speed was so much better. I have had a few unexplained appearances of lock ups with the Lexar card however.I was using C-AF, Sequential Low set to 9fps and I hadn't noticed any buffering issues.

Ron

Grumpy Hec
31st May 2017, 09:32 AM
Had my first one in four months. Two Sandisk cards, one 300Mb/s and the other 95. Battery removal cured it.

Had my first MK II lockup as well three days ago. Only cure was battery removal after which all was well. Nothing unusual in what I was doing in the lead up to this so I have no thoughts on what might be happening.

Hec

Ross the fiddler
31st May 2017, 12:13 PM
Had my first MK II lockup as well three days ago. Only cure was battery removal after which all was well. Nothing unusual in what I was doing in the lead up to this so I have no thoughts on what might be happening.

Hec

We had lock ups in the E-M5 as well to start with. I think some fixes may have been done in FW updates without advertising it & why it is always a good idea to take the latest updates (maybe not immediately in case a new bug appears, like in the E-M1 FW 4.2 update in December last year).

*chr

drmarkf
31st May 2017, 08:26 PM
Yes, I've had one lockup with the 1ii. It was while doing landscapes with the 12-100, a 3-shot HDR I think. It just froze before writing anything and needed a battery out reset.

That's in just over 6k frames.

Ricoh
31st May 2017, 11:21 PM
Yes, I've had one lockup with the 1ii. It was while doing landscapes with the 12-100, a 3-shot HDR I think. It just froze before writing anything and needed a battery out reset.

That's in just over 6k frames.
Is it because the on/off switch is just a front end to S/W, ie not a real switch?
I'm guessing - but inspired guessing - if every person experiencing a lockup was to write down their menu settings, it could be the case that a pattern emerges offering the manufacturers a route to correcting the s/w. You guys are part of the development team, like it or not. Help the designers in some way.

By the way, Dr Mark, I must say 6k is a lot of editing - I personally wouldn't have the time to sift through such a collection. I take my hat off to you!

drmarkf
1st June 2017, 06:55 AM
Is it because the on/off switch is just a front end to S/W, ie not a real switch?
I'm guessing - but inspired guessing - if every person experiencing a lockup was to write down their menu settings, it could be the case that a pattern emerges offering the manufacturers a route to correcting the s/w. You guys are part of the development team, like it or not. Help the designers in some way.

By the way, Dr Mark, I must say 6k is a lot of editing - I personally wouldn't have the time to sift through such a collection. I take my hat off to you!

Good idea on the recording of setup at the time. I believe I had a Sandisk 32gb extreme pro type 1 card in slot 1.

I've been concentrating on improving my panning and focusing setup for birds in flight, aircraft, motorsports and street photography, hence the high frame count!

My workflow for that sort of stuff involves an initial speedy scan through in Faststone Image Viewer, and around 90% get deleted.

Ricoh
1st June 2017, 07:26 AM
I meant the menu settings that each of you who experience lock-up. With all the different settings possible there is potential for a different route through the software (firmware or whatever they call it). There could be a pattern emerging helpful to the guys in Olympus. Card type could be significant too.

By the way, even £5k+ Leicas have their problems. And interestingly the company has asked for 40 beta testers to try the S/W before releasing it large.

drmarkf
1st June 2017, 08:07 AM
Yes, and I can assure everyone that the Sony forums are full of lockup and crash reports, and 'bricking' during a firmware update is very popular as well. Mine's been crash-free, but I take relatively few frames with it.

For what it's worth, I've never had a lockup with my previous Fuji X100T or current X70.

Zuiko
1st June 2017, 08:10 AM
By the way, even £5k+ Leicas have their problems.


The main one being affordability! :D

Ricoh
1st June 2017, 08:21 AM
Yes, and I can assure everyone that the Sony forums are full of lockup and crash reports, and 'bricking' during a firmware update is very popular as well. Mine's been crash-free, but I take relatively few frames with it.

For what it's worth, I've never had a lockup with my previous Fuji X100T or current X70.
I was referring to the latest iteration of M, the M10. On the other hand the M240 has been through it's 'development cycle' and seems to have stabilised.

One reason to return to analogue is all this nonsense with digital cameras. By the way, I'm off into town shortly to pick up my processed film, with a set of wet processed 6x4 prints. Oh the excitement, I can hardly wait! :)

Ricoh
1st June 2017, 09:12 AM
A final word or two on this, I've not heard many, if any, complaints of the Pen F locking. What is the firmware-software-camware doing different to the EM1 MK II?

mack100
18th August 2017, 12:50 PM
Thread revival!
Using my E-m1 Mkii with 300mmF4 + 1.4 TC in the park this morning, had a torrid time with lock-ups and general weirdness.
Came home and read this thread, reformatted the (new) Sandisk 64Gb Pro SDXC cards and then gave the camera hell with all combinations of settings, must have fired over 1000 shots.
Sweet as a nut, no problems at all.
I think I must have a Windows XP machine:D

Bassman51
18th August 2017, 01:00 PM
Just back from three weeks in Africa. Had one E-M1.2 lockup over ~4,000 shots; battery pop cured it. No problems with E-M1 (but I've never had a problem with it since acquired shortly after release). Mostly used the 1.2 with Panny lenses: 12-35 and 100-400. Electronic shutter for all shots. Sandisk Pro Extreme 64G UHS-II in slot 1 and 32G UHS-I in slot 2.

drmarkf
18th August 2017, 01:19 PM
Yes, good to hear.

Since my last report at the end of May, I've done around 5k frames (mix of street, wildlife, sports and landscape, probably 80% with the electronic shutter) and I don't recall having a lockup at all.

pdk42
18th August 2017, 01:30 PM
I've had my E-M1ii since April and had my first lock up last week. I'm not complaining.

Ricoh
18th August 2017, 05:00 PM
I've had my E-M1ii since April and had my first lock up last week. I'm not complaining.

A watch-dog timer would sort this, but you'd lose unsaved images. But no loss, the cam's doing so already. Or maybe a variation of Ctr-Alt-Del using a mixture of buttons, but I guess a lock-up is a result of the CPU getting its knickers in a twist. I experienced a lock-up on my M240, and, reading here and there, the advice received was to format the SD card Ex-FAT; problem solved.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 10:52 PM
...
Thought I would let you know that whilst out and about doing a bit of street photography yesterday the OMD EM1 MkII locked up twice!
...
Only way out was to remove the battery....
Chris

This used to happen once every couple of months with firmware versions 1. With firmware versions 2 it can happen every few minutes. The lock-up is completely unpredictable and seemingly random. Sometimes the camera crashes just after switching-on, displaying a completely black screen.

I mainly use the Olympus 12-40 with a SanDisk microSDXC UHS-II card. (I've run chkdsk /f /r on it).

I normally shoot without using either the viewfinder or the LCD screen, so never know that the camera is a brick until too late.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 11:02 PM
I guess a lock-up is a result of the CPU getting its knickers in a twist.

A CPU doesn't do this. The problem is incompetently programmed firmware; my guess - looking at the symptoms - would be illegal memory access.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 11:13 PM
I would have thought with all of the Olympus ambassadors worldwide trying out the gear before it goes on sale to the public, these problems should of been sorted?
But that's me being old fashioned!


Camera reviews and the opinions of smug and partial "ambassadors" are worthless when it comes to revealing real-word deal-breaking problems like this.

c12402
24th May 2018, 11:19 PM
Have you tried with a high speed memory? I use normally Lexar 2000X, never micro versions with adapter, since two years I have not seen that malfunction.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 11:29 PM
they believe it is an issue with memory card formatting, which needs to be done in camera.
We all know to format in-camera. Olympus don't have a clue.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 11:39 PM
Have people here checked out their memory card suitability?
Just a suggestion

The firmware crash happens with my SanDisk, so I think we can rule out "memory card suitability" - except, of course, that the E-M1 mark ii is compatible with absolutely no memory cards yet produced.

fitzrovian
24th May 2018, 11:47 PM
A watch-dog timer would sort this
Not necessarily.The code has gone into never-never land and is not sane.

Ross the fiddler
25th May 2018, 01:11 AM
This used to happen once every couple of months with firmware versions 1. With firmware versions 2 it can happen every few minutes. The lock-up is completely unpredictable and seemingly random. Sometimes the camera crashes just after switching-on, displaying a completely black screen.

I mainly use the Olympus 12-40 with a SanDisk microSDXC UHS-II card. (I've run chkdsk /f /r on it).

I normally shoot without using either the viewfinder or the LCD screen, so never know that the camera is a brick until too late.

My first suggestion would be, "don't use a SanDisk microSDXC UHS-II card". Try a SANDISK EXTREME PRO SD UHS-II CARD (https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-cards/sd-cards/extremepro-sd-uhs-ii) & then tell us if you're having problems. See the Compatibility Tables (http://cs.olympus-imaging.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/compati/media/sd/en_2016_04.cfm).

Growltiger
25th May 2018, 08:00 AM
Exactly. Why use a non-standard card? To buy a good camera and then not use the recommended card, doesn't make sense. To go further and use a card that needs an adapter makes even less sense.

There are lots and lots of people with the camera, like me, who never have it lock up. I doubt any of them are doing what you are doing. It is asking for trouble.

TimP
25th May 2018, 08:06 AM
Surely a simple test (process of elimination) would be to buy, beg, borrow or steal a supported card of the correct form factor and test with that. Certainly the first thing I’d do, and as already mentioned to format the card in the camera itself.

Phill D
25th May 2018, 08:13 AM
I use a Lexar micro SD HC 2 1800x card in it's adaptor and have never had a lock up with it so I don't think using an adaptor is the issue. I've used other micro cards in adaptors as well with no issues. The micro cards are more fragile I'll agree but the option to just put it directly into my Android tablet and review the images is a winner for me.

Beagletorque
25th May 2018, 08:26 AM
Since the last FW updates this is a non issue, least it is for me and I am using the same cards that locked up from the beginning!

I would advise updating your firmware.

wornish
25th May 2018, 08:27 AM
If you are not using a card from the recommended list then you don't really have any recall on Olympus.
Other cards do work of course as people on here have said but before criticising Olympus you should try it with a recommended card. The quality of memory cards does vary a lot and modern cameras really push them to the limit so those on the edge of the specification can give problems.

MJ224
25th May 2018, 10:32 AM
Point and shoot...………….*chr*chr

raichea
25th May 2018, 11:31 AM
I use a Lexar micro SD HC 2 1800x card in it's adaptor and have never had a lock up with it so I don't think using an adaptor is the issue. I've used other micro cards in adaptors as well with no issues. The micro cards are more fragile I'll agree but the option to just put it directly into my Android tablet and review the images is a winner for me.
There are lots of cheap shoddy adapters out there too, so that's a variable you avoid by using standard SD size cards.

TimP
25th May 2018, 11:42 AM
I’d imagine most people would use the adapter that came with the card, although I know not all do actually come with said adapter. Saying that, even the supplied ones are likely to be a weak link, another set of contacts to possibly fail. I wonder if the internal contacts are even gold plated (or any other modern quality gold equivalent!). For the sake of spending £30 odd quid on a proper, supported card having already spent over £1500 for the camera it seems like false economy not to. It’s easy to blame the camera when so many other factors come into play.

Phill D
25th May 2018, 03:07 PM
Tim the Lexar micro card was the closest spec micro card I could get to the recommended Lexar card. I decided the extra interface was worth the risk for the extra versatility and i've had no problems so far.

drmarkf
25th May 2018, 04:39 PM
For what its worth, I'm using Lexar 64 and 128Gb XCII 1000x 150MB/s U3 cards in two bodies for over 15k frames for something over a year and had one lockup like this with one of the early v1 firmwares, and none with either of the v2s.

fitzrovian
25th May 2018, 04:56 PM
Have you tried with a high speed memory? I use normally Lexar 2000X, never micro versions with adapter, since two years I have not seen that malfunction.
What a bizarre incomprehensible and irrelevant comment. The E-M1 mark ii has not even existed for two years.

Growltiger
25th May 2018, 05:02 PM
Tim the Lexar micro card was the closest spec micro card I could get to the recommended Lexar card. I decided the extra interface was worth the risk for the extra versatility and i've had no problems so far.
Except that there isn't officially a recommended Lexar card. Check the official tables: http://cs.olympus-imaging.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/compati/media/sd/en_2016_04.cfm
I'm not saying that they don't work perfectly well, although there was one type of Lexar card that crashed the camera due to problems in the Lexar card's microcode. Lexar accepted returns and gave free replacements.

As you may know Lexar went out of business last summer. Only its name survives, the branding and trademarks having been bought by a Chinese company, Longsys. I expect old stock will be available for some time, perhaps at bargain prices.

TimP
25th May 2018, 05:14 PM
I’ve been a long time Lexar user, right up until they got bought out. Never had any issues (so far). Will probably look at Sandisk next, although I bought 4x64GB 2000x cards and haven’t even used 2 of them yet. Not seen them cheap though.

drmarkf
25th May 2018, 06:04 PM
What a bizarre incomprehensible and irrelevant comment. The E-M1 mark ii has not even existed for two years.

We all appreciate you are feeling frustrated, but people here are trying to help and this isn't a dpreview forum, so we try to be friendly and respectful here.

Beagletorque
27th May 2018, 07:40 PM
Don't feed the trolls! We all appreciate you are feeling frustrated, but people here are trying to help and this isn't a dpreview forum, so we try to be friendly and respectful here.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Phill D
28th May 2018, 09:41 AM
Growltiger, as far as I remember fairly early on in the Mk2's life there was quite a fuss about cards and one of the few that was deemed fast and compatible was a Lexar x2000 one. I'm sure it was on the official list at the time but as you say there are none on there now. The one I got was a x1800 micro SD one as it was the fastest micro one they did at the time and it's worked flawlessly in the year or so I've had it. Since I've bought a few other makes, generally slower, and they have all worked fine too.

Phill D
28th May 2018, 09:51 AM
I'd say fitzrovian needs to send his camera back to Olympus if he's tried other cards and it's still locking up every few minutes. That would certainly drive me nuts.

Ricoh
28th May 2018, 09:55 AM
An alternative design solution could have made the camera (computer) insensitive to the response of tardy SD cards. Instead of locking up (WTF), it could display a message similar to "your choice of SD card is sh|t, get another you w@nker!".

drmarkf
28th May 2018, 10:54 AM
*chr

On a related note, fast cards have got b... expensive over the past 6 months, presumably because of the rise in video recording. Good job I got mine when I did.

Wolves
28th May 2018, 11:19 AM
I had the same issue with mine it locked up and no controls would work even after removing the battery it still wouldn't work it was 30 mins later before it would work, at the time I was taking long exposures of waterfalls, could be a card issue, camera was sent to Olympus and no fault found it has happened twice and is a little bit of a worry Roger

Ricoh
28th May 2018, 12:07 PM
I had the same issue with mine it locked up and no controls would work even after removing the battery it still wouldn't work it was 30 mins later before it would work, at the time I was taking long exposures of waterfalls, could be a card issue, camera was sent to Olympus and no fault found it has happened twice and is a little bit of a worry Roger
As design solutions go that's inexcusable - so easy to implement a watch-dog timer.

Ross the fiddler
28th May 2018, 12:30 PM
I'd say fitzrovian needs to send his camera back to Olympus if he's tried other cards and it's still locking up every few minutes. That would certainly drive me nuts.

Yes, but...... I don't believe he said he tried other cards, just tested the one micro one (as he specified) he had. *shrug

Wolves
28th May 2018, 01:09 PM
It happened twice same card Sandisk 32gb the card was sent with the camera back to olympus and they couldn't get it to do the same again?

kind regards

Roger

Ricoh
28th May 2018, 01:19 PM
^^ Something as simple as temperature difference could account for a variation of response time, eg UK cf Portugal.
I do not lurk under bridges, but I loathe bad design. The effects being described in the thread are avoidable.

Wolves
28th May 2018, 03:29 PM
it was cold when it happened 2 deg but camera should be able to cope with -10 ?

Roger

Ricoh
28th May 2018, 04:42 PM
^ Yes, but what I’m saying is that if there is a marginal timing situation between camera and memory card at x degrees C, the situation could be better or worse at y degrees C.

The camera designers have control over the camera, but none whatsoever over the SD card. They will design based on published data for the card, taking into account the timing tolerances throughout the working temperature, but should the card fail to meet the specification then issues arise.

Reading between the lines it appears the design can ‘hang’ if the card doesn’t release the read/write line.

drmarkf
28th May 2018, 06:27 PM
I seem to recall the same lock up situation with the mk1 which resulted in over 600 posts on here and probably as many theories as to the cause. I think it was eventually corrected after many months, by firmware updates but the cause never disclosed.

John

Yeah.

Worth mentioning (unless the OP has already been terminated with extreme prejudice) that some of the lockups I had with the E-M1i were due to dirty contacts on the adapter I was using for my 4/3 Zuiko 50mm f2 macro. He might like to try cleaning his lens-body connections...

Wolves
28th May 2018, 07:49 PM
I think it might of been a card problem affected by the cold, I also had a similar problem with my EM1-1

I doubt, that it was a lens connector problem its a brand new lens 12-40mm pro
all my gear is kept clean and kept in a think tank bag when not in use and the camera em-1mk2 has had very little use

Probably a temperature - speed - card issue.

I would like to thank you all for your feedback suggestions etc

thanks

kind regards

Roger

Growltiger
28th May 2018, 08:01 PM
You need to clean the contacts in the camera, not just on the lens. Deoxit is the ideal cleaner, used on a soft cloth.

Quick checklist:
- update firmware of camera and lenses to latest.
- use a recommended card (SanDisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s)
- clean the contacts.
- if that lot doesn't do it, reset the camera.
- still doing it - send it to Olympus.

Growltiger
29th May 2018, 07:17 AM
Deoxit is undoubtedly a very good useful product but at approx 3 times the price of the other reputable products it is rather overated IMHO. WD40 Specialist Contact Cleaner does a great job, evaporates quickly, lubricates and costs £6.99 as opposed to £23.90 for Deoxit. As with all cleaners of this type, they need to be used very sparingly as some plastics react badly to them. If it is avoidable, using them via the spray nozzle is therefore not advisable. Transferring the fluid to a Q-Tip or small brush such as an interdental TeePee type gives safer results.

Standard WD40 can also be used as a contact cleaner and lubricant if the specialist alternatives are not available but with the same care applied as above.

John
You can buy a 2ml tube of Deoxit on eBay for £6. You only need a few drops each time so one of these will last for many years.

Ricoh
29th May 2018, 09:06 AM
The contacts are gold flash I presume, so why are they oxidising? If Olympus used copper or pewter I would understand better.

drmarkf
29th May 2018, 09:18 AM
The contacts are gold flash I presume, so why are they oxidising? If Olympus used copper or pewter I would understand better.

Yes, the contacts on my Panasonic auto adapter had got contaminated with some sticky substance, which had got on to the camera contacts as well. I recall I wiped all my body and lens contacts off with some laboratory grade isopropyl alcohol (from work) and I had almost no E-M1i lockups after that.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I had been doing some macro food photography for a friend a couple of weeks before the problems started, and I assume it was strawberry ganache or some such!

Growltiger
29th May 2018, 09:22 AM
The contacts are gold flash I presume, so why are they oxidising? If Olympus used copper or pewter I would understand better.
The atmosphere coats everything with a fine film due to pollution. Think of the inside of your car window. Also fingermarks. This increases the electrical resistance of the connection. The contacts get wiped clean to some extent when putting a lens on or removing it, but cleaning the surfaces properly can help and certainly do no harm, provided only a soft cloth with a few drops of liquid on it, and nothing abrasive, is used. Just a wipe with a dry soft cloth may be adequate.

Ricoh
29th May 2018, 09:53 AM
I would use IPA and a microfibre cloth.

Ross the fiddler
29th May 2018, 01:28 PM
The atmosphere coats everything with a fine film due to pollution. Think of the inside of your car window. Also fingermarks. This increases the electrical resistance of the connection. The contacts get wiped clean to some extent when putting a lens on or removing it, but cleaning the surfaces properly can help and certainly do no harm, provided only a soft cloth with a few drops of liquid on it, and nothing abrasive, is used. Just a wipe with a dry soft cloth may be adequate.

I remember servicing early computer systems where the gold edge connections became quite dull looking (could have been resin residue, perhaps) & we used to use a soft eraser (pencil rubber) first following by alcohol (isopropyl preferably but metho otherwise & buffed off), so if a lens connector (or SD card) looks dull, it's worth cleaning properly.

TimP
29th May 2018, 01:36 PM
I remember servicing early computer systems where the gold edge connections became quite dull looking...
Spent many happy years cleaning computer edge connectors and reseating banks of memory chips with great success. Can’t say I’ve ever had to do it with a camera lens connector pins though, not even when camera and lens has been subjected to many hours in humid salt water conditions (whale watching). Is Olympus unique in seemingly having this as a problem? I can understand it perhaps within a microSD to SD adapter where perhaps they’ve cut some corners but on lens to body connectors? Really?

Ross the fiddler
29th May 2018, 01:55 PM
Spent many happy years cleaning computer edge connectors and reseating banks of memory chips with great success. Can’t say I’ve ever had to do it with a camera lens connector pins though, not even when camera and lens has been subjected to many hours in humid salt water conditions (whale watching). Is Olympus unique in seemingly having this as a problem? I can understand it perhaps within a microSD to SD adapter where perhaps they’ve cut some corners but on lens to body connectors? Really?

No, not normally, but when issues arise with a lens then it's at least worth trying.

TimP
29th May 2018, 02:08 PM
It’s probably an unwitting part of the process anyway. Try another lens... yep, that works. Put the original back and as if by magic that works too!
Having commented that I’ve never had such an issue on several other cameras and lenses I’ve maybe overlooked the fact that just about everything else is knackered on the cameras! Buttons stuck, pop up flashes that don’t (pop up)

Growltiger
29th May 2018, 03:41 PM
Spent many happy years cleaning computer edge connectors and reseating banks of memory chips with great success. Can’t say I’ve ever had to do it with a camera lens connector pins though, not even when camera and lens has been subjected to many hours in humid salt water conditions (whale watching). Is Olympus unique in seemingly having this as a problem? I can understand it perhaps within a microSD to SD adapter where perhaps they’ve cut some corners but on lens to body connectors? Really?
All ILC cameras can have the issue. A particular Nikon camera some years ago needed it as it was very sensitive to the voltage (which is why I have a supply of Deoxit).

Please don't use a pencil eraser, the little bits will get everywhere inside the camera.


Fumbling while mounting a lens and touching the connectors with dirty fingers is easy to do and forget about. The sticky mess will transfer itself to the contacts inside the camera as well.

jima
29th May 2018, 07:44 PM
I remember servicing early computer systems where the gold edge connections became quite dull looking (could have been resin residue, perhaps) & we used to use a soft eraser (pencil rubber) first following by alcohol (isopropyl preferably but metho otherwise & buffed off), so if a lens connector (or SD card) looks dull, it's worth cleaning properly.
When trying to rectify a randomly re-booting server the first step was always to remove the SIMM's, clean the edge connectors with an ink rubber (pencil rubbers have too much gum, shed too many bits, not abrasive enough) then wipe with high purity IPA only (too many additives in meths) and refit. Surprisingly effective, I found.

Growltiger
29th May 2018, 08:10 PM
When trying to rectify a randomly re-booting server the first step was always to remove the SIMM's, clean the edge connectors with an ink rubber (pencil rubbers have too much gum, shed too many bits, not abrasive enough) then wipe with high purity IPA only (too many additives in meths) and refit. Surprisingly effective, I found.
You should read a wonderful old book "The Soul of a New Machine" 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine
They build this crucial new prototype and it is hopelessly unreliable, they try all the normal things.
In despair they lift the chassis a foot off the floor and drop it. Reseat all the boards, and it then works perfectly.

Keith-369
29th May 2018, 08:27 PM
You should read a wonderful old book "The Soul of a New Machine" 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine
They build this crucial new prototype and it is hopelessly unreliable, they try all the normal things.
In despair they lift the chassis a foot off the floor and drop it. Reseat all the boards, and it then works perfectly.

Tried that with the wife ......... didn't work :D:D:D:D:D

Jim Ford
29th May 2018, 09:13 PM
I would use IPA and a microfibre cloth.

What, India Pale Ale?

;)

Jim

Ross the fiddler
30th May 2018, 01:25 AM
All ILC cameras can have the issue. A particular Nikon camera some years ago needed it as it was very sensitive to the voltage (which is why I have a supply of Deoxit).

Please don't use a pencil eraser, the little bits will get everywhere inside the camera.


Fumbling while mounting a lens and touching the connectors with dirty fingers is easy to do and forget about. The sticky mess will transfer itself to the contacts inside the camera as well.

Relax, I wouldn't use it in that situation either, but...... if by some chance I really felt the lens contacts look badly discoloured & dull then I may use it (the soft silicon rubber type only though) with the lens horizontal & the contacts down & then followed up with cleaning liquid on a cloth to thoroughly clean every skerrick of rubber possibly left behind.

Ross the fiddler
30th May 2018, 01:27 AM
What, India Pale Ale?

;)

Jim

Yeah sure mate! Don't worry it will probably only send you blind & with a shocker of a headache. :p :D

MJ224
30th May 2018, 07:13 AM
You should read a wonderful old book "The Soul of a New Machine" 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine
They build this crucial new prototype and it is hopelessly unreliable, they try all the normal things.
In despair they lift the chassis a foot off the floor and drop it. Reseat all the boards, and it then works perfectly.

Percussive maintenance its called...…………...*chr

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 08:24 AM
With regard to the Lock-Up malarkey, if the manufacturer incorporated a data logger within the system (stored in E^2 memory for example) it would be a simple job for them to diagnose issues such as this. Other manufacturers do this, eg Leica, which I know to be fact, revealed to me in written communication when my M240 went back for investigation.

TimP
30th May 2018, 08:49 AM
As a computer techie we used to use what I assume to have been specially designed rubbers for edge connectors. Twas neither pencil nor ink and was a funny dark beige sort of colour and yes, it did shed bits everywhere so a blast with an air duster or a waft with a brush cleared all the detritus.
I now feel a need to Google ‘edge connector rubber’. (Wonder what delights that will bring up)

Edit: nothing obvious in the Google search (or even remotely pervy!)

Growltiger
30th May 2018, 09:45 AM
How do we know they don't incorporate a data logger ? I doubt if Olympus would make the fact public knowledge.

John
Olympus do store fault data. You can see it by accessing the appropriate pages in the hidden areas. You get to them the same way you find out the number of photos taken, but on a different page.

raichea
30th May 2018, 09:45 AM
With regard to the Lock-Up malarkey, if the manufacturer incorporated a data logger within the system (stored in E^2 memory for example) it would be a simple job for them to diagnose issues such as this. Other manufacturers do this, eg Leica, which I know to be fact, revealed to me in written communication when my M240 went back for investigation.
I'd be amazed if Olympus weren't logging some information that they thought might be useful in case of errors.

In addition, while logging can and does help to resolve bugs, there are classes of errors that logging may not offer any help at all - in particular, race hazards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition). In fact, the use of logging can hide race hazards due to changing the timing of the events causing the problem.

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 09:48 AM
How do we know they don't incorporate a data logger ? I doubt if Olympus would make the fact public knowledge.

John
Maybe they do, but if they have incorporated a logger why does it take so long to resolve the issues.
Not just Olympus, many camera manufactures seem to 'employ' the general public as part of their development team. Imagine a TV disappearing up its own armpit, they'd go out of business pdq if not resolved.

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 09:52 AM
I'd be amazed if Olympus weren't logging some information that they thought might be useful in case of errors.

In addition, while logging can and does help to resolve bugs, there are classes of errors that logging may not offer any help at all - in particular, race hazards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition). In fact, the use of logging can hide race hazards due to changing the timing of the events causing the problem.
Race hazards I know well. It's sorted in the design phase. In the past by pen and paper, then spreadsheets and now s/w emulation. As an example an FPGA can be emulated with all the timing tolerances coupled with temperature effects etc.

TimP
30th May 2018, 10:04 AM
Presumably any data logged is uploaded at some point? At time of firmware update? When connecting camera to Viewer etc? Surely they don’t rely on getting hold of it should they ever receive a camera in the workshops for repair / investigation?

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 10:40 AM
I guess error files are read at the repair facility if and when the camera is returned, e.g. when the user says 'enough is enough'.

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 10:43 AM
I've noticed Microsoft running telemetry on my computer, error log or something like that. It's all possible.

raichea
30th May 2018, 11:16 AM
Race hazards I know well. It's sorted in the design phase. In the past by pen and paper, then spreadsheets and now s/w emulation. As an example an FPGA can be emulated with all the timing tolerances coupled with temperature effects etc.

Ideally, yes. But, while modern design tools can do a lot to help ensure timing tolerances are accounted for in logic circuitry, it's much more difficult to account for many asynchronous inputs such as from the multiple buttons switches and dials on the camera. Factoring in real-time interrupt-driven software running on multi-core processors makes it even harder.

wornish
30th May 2018, 01:44 PM
Blimey this thread has taken on a life of it's own

MJ224
30th May 2018, 03:34 PM
My own experience of the EM1 I and 2 has never had a lock up...……

So there...……….*chr

Was a bit of a troll I reckon...………….:eek:

Ricoh
30th May 2018, 03:56 PM
On the plus side it keeps us amused.

jima
30th May 2018, 07:34 PM
Unless you have all the Win10 invasive options set to "Off", Microsoft collect information on everything that happens on the PC via Windows Error Reporting and then save it it their Win Log Files. They probably even know what you had for breakfast :) If you're a Kapersky user, maybe Putin knows too :D

I have CCleaner configured to delete all the log files every time the PC or laptop shuts down. This does mean the files would no longer be any assistance in the event of a problem but at least it deters Microsoft's invasive Big Brother Syndrome :D

Microsoft is the most invasive data collection system on the planet, followed closely by Google !

John
Yep, that's why despite being a Windows user since version 3 I abandoned it in favour of Mac and OSX/MacOS 18 months ago and have never looked back or had such a peaceful user experience. None of my remaining Windows systems (professional use) are allowed to progress beyond Windows 7 except the servers which are a whole other ball game. I also have as little to do with Google as humanly possible, including Android etc. I - don't - trust - any - of - them.

Anyhoo, not to drift off-topic, the purpose of this post is to address those who thing that debugging and troubleshooting is as simple as recording a log for later examination. Let me tell you, useful as they may seem to be, for lock-ups they are next to useless. A locked, deadlocked or wait-listed processor is usually unable to record log events. In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful, lock-ups more quickly resolved by component swap which is not so easy on an integrated digital device. Changing batteries, memory cards or lenses seems to me to be more likely to lead to a resolution.

I would also report a couple of years use of an EM-1 Mk I without a single lock-up and look forward to a similar experience with my recently acquired Mk II.

MJ224
30th May 2018, 09:07 PM
Yep, that's why despite being a Windows user since version 3 I abandoned it in favour of Mac and OSX/MacOS 18 months ago and have never looked back or had such a peaceful user experience. None of my remaining Windows systems (professional use) are allowed to progress beyond Windows 7 except the servers which are a whole other ball game. I also have as little to do with Google as humanly possible, including Android etc. I - don't - trust - any - of - them.

Anyhoo, not to drift off-topic, the purpose of this post is to address those who thing that debugging and troubleshooting is as simple as recording a log for later examination. Let me tell you, useful as they may seem to be, for lock-ups they are next to useless. A locked, deadlocked or wait-listed processor is usually unable to record log events. In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful, lock-ups more quickly resolved by component swap which is not so easy on an integrated digital device. Changing batteries, memory cards or lenses seems to me to be more likely to lead to a resolution.

I would also report a couple of years use of an EM-1 Mk I without a single lock-up and look forward to a similar experience with my recently acquired Mk II.

Has James lost it? I do not understand what he is trying to get at, the whole thread is a troll......

WGAF.................*chr

TimP
31st May 2018, 08:19 AM
......In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful......
Presumably not working in a professional capacity then. Windows event logs (server and desktop O/S) can be a surprisingly useful, and often overlooked, source of information.

(Should I stop feeding the trolls now?)

jima
31st May 2018, 02:31 PM
Presumably not working in a professional capacity then. Windows event logs (server and desktop O/S) can be a surprisingly useful, and often overlooked, source of information.

(Should I stop feeding the trolls now?)
In the context of lock-ups, Tim, please try to keep up :) Stopping feeding the trolls now. Perhaps a mod might be kind enough to lock this one out?

shenstone
31st May 2018, 02:39 PM
If it doesn't calm down a bit we will have to. The thread should return to objective evidence and discussions on such if people want it to stay open

When posting please remember we aim to be a family friendly forum

Regards

Andy

fitzrovian
11th June 2018, 01:59 AM
One obvious thing that stretched the time to resolve the issue was created by users reporting the instances on forums such as this but not to Olympus. Users seemed reluctant to send the camera for investigation and repair...

If Olympus had 100's of cameras returned under warranty for the same fault they may have been more inclined to address the problem a lot quicker than they eventually did.


You are absolutely correct. Personally, I was reluctant to return my new camera to Olympus for a problem that is obviously their own execrable firmware bug, not a hardware problem - an objectively futile exercise. I guess others feel the same way.

Today, my camera locked immediately on switching it on - there is no pattern to the fault.

wornish
11th June 2018, 06:37 AM
You are absolutely correct. Personally, I was reluctant to return my new camera to Olympus for a problem that is obviously their own execrable firmware bug, not a hardware problem - an objectively futile exercise. I guess others feel the same way.

Today, my camera locked immediately on switching it on - there is no pattern to the fault.

Rather than vent your frustrations on here why don't you simply send the camera to Olympus for repair?

One thing you can be certain of is that it won't get fixed just complaining about it.

fitzrovian
11th June 2018, 09:41 AM
Rather than vent your frustrations on here why don't you simply send the camera to Olympus for repair?

One thing you can be certain of is that it won't get fixed just complaining about it.

The answer to that is in the post you are replying to; perhaps you should read it.

Growltiger
11th June 2018, 10:02 AM
Rather than vent your frustrations on here why don't you simply send the camera to Olympus for repair?

One thing you can be certain of is that it won't get fixed just complaining about it.


You are feeding trolls again. They can't send the camera to Olympus if it does not exist. Don't believe everyone or everything you read on the internet.

wornish
11th June 2018, 10:12 AM
The answer to that is in the post you are replying to; perhaps you should read it.

I did read it and you say "in your opinion" its a firmware bug so its not worth sending it back for repair.

If you won't let Oly even try to fix it thats your call but don't waste everyones time on here complaining.

You could always switch to another make and complain on their forums which seems to be what you like doing.

fitzrovian
25th June 2018, 02:43 AM
so easy to implement a watch-dog timer.

True. Do you think the software is trying to do synchronous writes? I can't understand it.

Ian
25th June 2018, 07:05 AM
I can't see any purpose in continuing this thread and it's just generating bad feeling so I'm closing it.

Ian