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View Full Version : So much for anti-virus software!


Jim Ford
25th October 2016, 08:30 AM
https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA16-187A

Note: They state multiple critical vulnerabilities!

I remember reading some years ago on a security forum, that these products are viruses themselves, because they actually introduce security vulnerabilities.

Jim

Wally
25th October 2016, 09:29 AM
So now we need an AV proggie to check an AV proggie to check an AV proggie, which raises the age old question on who checks the checkers? ;)

Jim Ford
25th October 2016, 10:03 AM
The shame of it is that the only reason I know of for Linux users to use these AV checkers, is for mail handling as a service for Windows users.

Touch anything Windows and you get dirty!

Jim

iso
25th October 2016, 04:38 PM
Touch anything Windows and you get dirty!

Jim

And you can never 'see through' dirty Windows' :(

Ricoh
24th March 2018, 10:14 AM
In the light of the 'goings on', is it still safe to rely on Kaspersky? I have a copy running on my computer, just wondering. I wouldn't be suprised if it had crossed the minds of others too.

MJ224
24th March 2018, 10:23 AM
Awhile back, I downloaded CCleaner onto the wife's pooter. It came with a dirty load as well. They have since fixed it, but it leaves you with a bad taste somewhere............:(

pdk42
24th March 2018, 11:56 AM
I'm a software and computers guy and have been for all my working life. On my home computers, I've never used AV software and have yet to have a virus. My company of course does install AV (it would be negligent to do otherwise - imagine the lawyers with the fall out if a virus ever did damage any of our customers' data) but those in the know fully accept that AV is a pretty limited tool.

Windows gets a lot of negative publicity on security vulnerabilities, but it's by no means the only OS under threat. Mac OS has, according to some experts, got more high risk security holes than all versions of Windows put together. Linux doesn't escape either - there are plenty of malware threats that target that OS too, but it's usually servers that are targeted rather than desktops.

Windows gets all the publicity simply because it's by far the most dominant OS for general public use.

The best way to stay virus free is to develop a heightened sense of scepticism whenever you install or open stuff that's originated on the web. Never open EXE or MSI files in attachments to emails unless you're VERY sure you know where they come from. The same rule should be applied to any Microsoft Office document (Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc). If you're installing software make sure it's from known reliable sources and if in any doubt pass it through one of the many online virus checkers.

Ricoh
24th March 2018, 12:15 PM
Thanks Paul, I wasn't aware of the risk from MS office documents, but I am now.

The main issue for me, and I suspect many others, is that I use on-line banking, which means typing passwords and security details. It has crossed my mind that I should have a separate computer (laptop) used uniquely for banking, nothing else, or somehow revert to branch level banking, if I can.

But regarding Kaspersky, can I trust the company?

wornish
24th March 2018, 01:07 PM
Its important to keep your software upto date. The major issues last year in lots of the public sector and utility companies computer systems was caused by them still running applications on windows XP systems.

pandora
24th March 2018, 03:39 PM
In the light of the 'goings on', is it still safe to rely on Kaspersky? I have a copy running on my computer, just wondering. I wouldn't be surprised if it had crossed the minds of others too.Well Hilary used it and see what happened to her ... my advice, don't touch anything Russian, moreover, try to avoid anything Russian touching you! :eek:

I totally agree with Paul, develop a high degree of skepticism. I've been 'puting for over twenty years (sans AV) and never copped a virus except those that cause a runny nose. Although currently I'm running Trend Micro that some techie wiz talked me into almost a year ago (I'm sure he got a kickback). No threats detected and I'm not renewing.

I remember reading some years ago on a security forum, that these products are viruses themselves, because they actually introduce security vulnerabilities. Jim
Too true, and I suspect that the likes of Symantec and Norton, in particular, actually implant viruses in order to "catch them", thus impressing the user as to how invincible they are.

Otto
27th March 2018, 01:15 PM
Like Paul I don't use any A-V software and have only once encountered a virus - many years ago when I was stupid enough to click a link in an e-mail without examining it first. It launched a piece of code which sent out dozens of spam e-mails before I could switch the machine off. I know I bang on about Mailwasher but it really is a great way to keep e-mails with viral payloads off your system. A decent firewall ought to prevent malware arriving by "drive-by" attacks and dodgy web sites.

Files arriving as e-mail attachments should be regarded as suspect unless you know that the sender is genuine and you are expecting them. Spammers are very good at spoofing e-mail addresses and disguising the attachments.

Naughty Nigel
28th March 2018, 08:24 PM
Windows gets a lot of negative publicity on security vulnerabilities, but it's by no means the only OS under threat. Mac OS has, according to some experts, got more high risk security holes than all versions of Windows put together.

As I see it there are two security risks associated with Mac OS's. Firstly, the dominance of Windows has meant that, up until now, hackers have always targeted Windows users simply because there are so many Windows PC's to choose from.

However, given the purported demographic of Mac users surely it is only a matter of time before they become the hackers' target of choice? Once this becomes fashionable the whole Mac infrastructure would be crippled before Mac users could bring themselves to acknowledge that there was a problem.

Indeed, I have little doubt that the greatest risk associated with Apple Mac computers is the users themselves, who have such complete and unshakeable trust in the infallibility of their computers that few of them would recognise a security risk even if it had bells and flashing lights on it!

Ricoh
28th March 2018, 08:37 PM
The question I was trying to raise is can we trust Kaspersky given the recent events and potential retaliation from Russia?

wornish
28th March 2018, 09:01 PM
As I see it there are two security risks associated with Mac OS's. Firstly, the dominance of Windows has meant that, up until now, hackers have always targeted Windows users simply because there are so many Windows PC's to choose from.

However, given the purported demographic of Mac users surely it is only a matter of time before they become the hackers' target of choice? Once this becomes fashionable the whole Mac infrastructure would be crippled before Mac users could bring themselves to acknowledge that there was a problem.

Indeed, I have little doubt that the greatest risk associated with Apple Mac computers is the users themselves, who have such complete and unshakeable trust in the infallibility of their computers that few of them would recognise a security risk even if it had bells and flashing lights on it!


Seems this is another Windows is better than Mac post.

Let me guess which OS you use ?

I have an iMac desktop and also a laptop running Windows 10.

My Laptop takes between 1 to 2 hours every time I start it to do its compulsory updates before it can be used in any meaningful way. The system just sits there doing unknown stuff. I use my laptop for astrophotography because of the apps available and thats it, everything else is way easier on the Mac IMHO.

I am certainly not complacent about security but my Mac just works, does what it says on the tin and quietly prompts me when updates are available in the background without impacting my work. My Windows 10 laptop knows better and effectively stops me from using it whilst it forces me to update or else I have to disconnect from the web and take other steps to not update.

Maybe I am lucky but in over 15 years of switching to Mac I have never had an issue. I'm not complacent or boasting just stating my personal experience.

All computer systems are vulnerable, to a great extent it depends on the sites you visit. Mac is just different to Windows as are other Linux based OS. Debian, etc or even Mobile based systems like Android or IOS.

Windows based systems barely register in the mobile world ( i.e.the future) which has far more users.

Windows desktop systems certainly has/had a huge installed base and that isn't going away, but please don't blanket criticise users of other systems as all being unaware of security issues. *chr


For Reference : I don't use or trust any anti virus software regardless of where its from. Even the term Virus is from the Windows world of the 90's. Todays nasties are much more dangerous.

Naughty Nigel
28th March 2018, 09:05 PM
The question I was trying to raise is can we trust Kaspersky given the recent events and potential retaliation from Russia?

The question is, should we trust Kaspersky any more, or less than other AV vendors?

On the basis that it takes one to catch one Kaspersky is probably as good as any other AV offering right now.

I have used American bloatware in the past which not only slowed my computer to a crawl but seemingly did nothing to protect it, other than bombarding me with fake virus alerts shortly before it was due to expire. I cannot think why. :rolleyes:

When I switched to Kaspersky it found more than two-hundred nasties which had been lurking in the system for years, totally undetected by Norton, MacAfee or Dr Solomon's.

Kaspersky has been consistently highly rated in magazine reviews, and has minimal impact on system performance.

Does that mean I trust it implicitly? No it doesn't, but I doubt that I am No 1 on the KGB's hit list. It probably wouldn't be a good idea for government departments or banks to be using Kaspersky as their only means of security, but I don't see myself as a target.

I think we also need to be careful not to assume that every Russian has the same motives as the Russian President or the KGB.

Interestingly, there have also been security concerns involving suspected bugging of [North Korean made] Huawei devices (such as 4G dongles), to the point that The Whitehouse banned staff from using them.

Huawei is now becoming a major player in the mobile phone market, which means that in theory, Kim Jong-il could be watching your every move. *yes

Naughty Nigel
28th March 2018, 09:25 PM
Seems this is another Windows is better than Mac post.

Let me guess which OS you use ?



You tell me? My iPad, which I think is an Apple device is currently running IOS 11.2.6, but has prompted me to install yet another major OS update tonight. That is two in a week! Every update seems to make it run slower, but I gather this is a deliberate policy by Apple to encourage users to upgrade.

I happen to have Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 Laptops, as well as Windows 8.1 desktops and a Windows 12 R2 server and have never been stopped from doing anything owing to updates. You simply tell them to do it when you shut down.

Windows desktop systems certainly has/had a huge installed base and that isn't going away, but please don't blanket criticise users of other systems as all being unaware of security issues. *chr

I personally know several Apple Mac users who honestly believe their systems are infallible and will not be persuaded otherwise. It is almost like a cult following. But that is not just my opinion; the whole IT industry is becoming increasingly concerned about the blasť attitude of Apple Mac users to security issues.

wornish
28th March 2018, 09:34 PM
You tell me? My iPad, which I think is an Apple device is currently running IOS 11.2.6, but has prompted me to install yet another major OS update tonight. That is two in a week! Every update seems to make it run slower, but I gather this is a deliberate policy by Apple to encourage users to upgrade.

But that is not just my opinion; the whole IT industry is becoming increasingly concerned about the blasť attitude of Apple Mac users to security issues.



As I said Mac. systems simply tell you an update is available .
Windows systems force you to update, either overnight or when you power on. Whilst this is happening your system is effectively unusable.


Re your second point : please explain or provide links where the "whole IT industry" is concerned about Mac users being blasť. Think you are being a bit "Naughty" :)

You claimed

Naughty Nigel
29th March 2018, 07:56 AM
Why say it with words when you can say it with pictures? :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nKx0U8xc3zw/UmaAqMiaBFI/AAAAAAAACVA/OcUI3ITjHEk/s1600/pic1117745.png

Otto
29th March 2018, 08:25 AM
Since the last major update I've found Windows 10 to be less annoying. True, if I don't use a machine for a few days it will take a while to sort itself out but the dreaded "Windows modules installer worker" doesn't sit using 50% cpu and 99% disk for hours so often now. The old Dell I'm writing this on has Win10 Professional and I've been able to turn off a lot of the background processes that hamstring the Home Edition. The main issue I have with 10 versus the older editions is that, at least with the Home Edition, you have no choice when to install updates. If it decides to update itself when you shut the system down you simply have to wait till it's finished. The older versions gave you the choice to "install updates and shut down" or "shut down anyway".

If I want something to be usable within seconds of switch-on I fire up my Raspberry Pi ;).

MJ224
29th March 2018, 08:30 AM
I am just a user of Windows 10, but for the last 12 months or so, the system does give you an option to update later, at a time convenient to yourself.

I just let it get on with it and go and make a cuppa.

But in early W10 days, there was no choice. Exceedingly irritating if you are at work, or need to do an urgent task.

Re virus protection, I use the Windows Defender. It has caught one virus and sorted it. No idea where it came from.............*chr

Grumpy Hec
29th March 2018, 08:44 AM
As I said Mac. systems simply tell you an update is available .
Windows systems force you to update, either overnight or when you power on. Whilst this is happening your system is effectively unusable.


You claimed

Without wishing to encourage the W v IOS debate as it will go nowhere I do feel obligated to comment on this remark.

I have run Windows for decades and I have never been forced to update in the way you describe and been unable to use my machine. It may download in the background but I have my machines configured such that I allow the update at a time of my choosing. Typically this is on close down when by definition I'm not using it anyway and it does it's thing and then shuts down. Occasionally the subsequent startup is a little slower but rarely such that it is a problem. Equally I sometimes let it do it now and reboot whilst I do one of the many other tasks I have to do. The point is I control it.

As for anti virus software I gave up on Kasperski some time ago when logic led me to the conclusion that having Russian software to check for malware etc. was odd. I now use Windows Defender on all machines and despite the many sites visited of all types I have no problems. Norton etc. are themselves a problem as they are so invasive and have an impact on machine operation to such an extent that I almost regard them as malware in themselves.

As Paul said the real key is to be aware of what's in emails and sites and not to click on stuff you are unsure about. It is not certain this will stop nasties appearing but it will go a substantial way towards it.

All operating systems are potentially vulnerable if the unpleasant people out there choose to target them. We just have to be realistic about that and take precautions as we each deem to be appropriate for our particular circumstances.


Hec

wornish
29th March 2018, 09:08 AM
I have run Windows for decades and I have never been forced to update in the way you describe and been unable to use my machine. It may download in the background but I have my machines configured such that I allow the update at a time of my choosing. Typically this is on close down when by definition I'm not using it anyway and it does it's thing and then shuts down. Occasionally the subsequent startup is a little slower but rarely such that it is a problem. Equally I sometimes let it do it now and reboot whilst I do one of the many other tasks I have to do. The point is I control it.

........


Hec


I didn't start the Windows vs Mac debate I simply replied to the post declaring all Mac users were blasť about security. I also dont want to add to the flames as I agree it goes nowhere.

What kind of system do you run windows on, a fairly powerful desktop ?

If you use it on a basic laptop as I do it can take over an hour before you can do anything meaningful while it updates after being powered off and I am not exaggerating. I use mine solely for astrophotagraphy apps to control my telescope and take pictures using Olympus Capture which it does really well. I have to make sure its powered up at least an hour before I actually want to use it to get all the update processes out of the way which is a real pain.

steverh
29th March 2018, 09:25 AM
Win 10 has settled down into a mature and stable system. Updates can be a problem when they happen at the wrong time. Win 10 Pro gives a lot more control if you want to spend the extra money for it.

Traditional "anti-virus" is a busted flush. Social engineering is the biggest problem - inducing people to open email attachments or other innocent looking items which do nasty things. Macs are equally open to this sort of attack.

Ransomware and its variants are a big threat. Finding that all your photos have been encrypted despite your foolproof backup system is not good. Sometimes it will make your hard drive unusable. After a lot of research, I use Emsisoft Anti-Malware which looks for unexpected behaviour on the machine and (hopefully) intercepts it before it can do any damage. It also does the usual AV stuff like blocking suspicious websites.

I don't think that saying "I'm very sensible and it won't happen to me" is a good option.

Naughty Nigel
29th March 2018, 12:32 PM
My Windows laptop takes about six seconds to boot from cold and any updates can be applied at shutdown. Installing updates usually takes a minute or two at most unless it is a major update which might take ten minutes or so.

If your laptop spends two hours installing updates every time you switch it on then something is badly wrong.

BTW, I updated my Apple iPad last night as requested. I started the update just before News at Ten. It was still updating when I nodded off during 'A Question of Sport'. :rolleyes:

Otto
29th March 2018, 02:55 PM
We have 3 basic Win10 laptops and the windows OS is slightly different on all 3. They do however all provide the option to either "shut down" or "update and shut down" when switching off.

I have never seen that option on any of my three Win10 machines! If I click on the Windows logo and then choose the on/off button above it, the only options I ever see are sleep, shut down or restart. Then when I choose shut down, occasionally I get the "Getting Windows Ready" message when updates are ready to install and I can't power the machine down until it's finished. This usually happens when I'm in a hurry to go out :).

The local computer expert has noted in our local newsletter today that there is a bug in a recent update that causes machines to continually attempt to install it, slowing them down. She says if you click on Updates and Security and see "2018-02 Cumulative update for Windows 10 version 1709" and "restart required" then that is why your machine is running slowly. As a temporary fix tell Windows that you are on a metered connection.

Nigel - if your laptop boots in six seconds I am amazed! Are you sure it had actually shut down and not simply gone to sleep? Mind you if it never takes more than ten minutes to install an update I have to assume it has a 100GHz cpu and a solid state hard drive *chr.

Naughty Nigel
29th March 2018, 02:59 PM
Nigel - if your laptop boots in six seconds I am amazed! Are you sure it had actually shut down and not simply gone to sleep?

It definitely shuts down. It does have a SSD hard drive though which makes a big difference.

I don't use the Sleep option because the built in 4G internet can keep running when you don't want it to.

I accept that is a problem that MacBook users will never suffer. :D

Otto
29th March 2018, 03:34 PM
Ah yes, an SSD would make it a lot quicker. My three all have spinning discs which are usually at 100% usage for several minutes after boot, running Antimalware and Superfetch services mostly. My tiny Intel Atom machine was virtually useless for an hour after booting until the last big update, now it's almost as usable as it was when running Windows 7.

Grumpy Hec
30th March 2018, 12:49 PM
I have never seen that option on any of my three Win10 machines! If I click on the Windows logo and then choose the on/off button above it, the only options I ever see are sleep, shut down or restart. Then when I choose shut down, occasionally I get the "Getting Windows Ready" message when updates are ready to install and I can't power the machine down until it's finished. This usually happens when I'm in a hurry to go out :).

The local computer expert has noted in our local newsletter today that there is a bug in a recent update that causes machines to continually attempt to install it, slowing them down. She says if you click on Updates and Security and see "2018-02 Cumulative update for Windows 10 version 1709" and "restart required" then that is why your machine is running slowly. As a temporary fix tell Windows that you are on a metered connection.

Nigel - if your laptop boots in six seconds I am amazed! Are you sure it had actually shut down and not simply gone to sleep? Mind you if it never takes more than ten minutes to install an update I have to assume it has a 100GHz cpu and a solid state hard drive *chr.


You need to go into Windows settings and then to the Update section where you will find various options for ongoing update control. I suspect it is there which enables the options to appear in the close down button if an update has been downloaded. I always works for me.

Regarding the startup & shutdown times I share Nigel's experience as my start up is a few seconds with an even quicker shutdown. It has to be said that I have built a new machine optimised for image processing so I'm not short of pure grunt. One important factor as well is that because I built my own machine with vanilla software I do not have all the rubbish and bloatware that OEMs put on which can have a detrimental effect on overall performance.

My old work provided machines were slower, worse I ever had was about 5 minutes, but that was because the CFO refused to allow expenditure on decent spec machines even though we were a software company and we spent ages on old machines. Shortage of RAM and slow disks are the two biggest issues. When he did see the light and got 16GB Ram machines it was a revelation. Windows also had a tendency to get slower with age, as do most OS in reality, and a full rebuild can often bring a significant improvement.

The update you refer to did not cause the problems you describe on my machine. Purely by coincidence I have installed the next one this morning which took about 1 minute including the restart.

Hec

MJ224
30th March 2018, 01:29 PM
My Windows laptop takes about six seconds to boot from cold and any updates can be applied at shutdown.

My Surface laptop does not take much longer............*chr

OM USer
30th March 2018, 02:42 PM
Ah yes, an SSD would make it a lot quicker. My three all have spinning discs which are usually at 100% usage for several minutes after boot, running Antimalware and Superfetch services mostly. My tiny Intel Atom machine was virtually useless for an hour after booting until the last big update, now it's almost as usable as it was when running Windows 7.

This is a persistant problem and not just on boot. It actually happens on logging in (including switching users). The disk usage hits 100% for several minutes. My machine (Win 8.1) has enought grunt that it doesn't slow me down much but its still a pain.

On modern windows machines the default configuration is not to shut down fully, hence turning it on does not do a cold restart. Enough information is saved on shutdown that a UEFI boot can fast track the startup up. The "restart" option on the shutdown menu does however do a fuller shutdown than the "shutdown" menu.

Otto
30th March 2018, 03:31 PM
I found an option under "restart options" to "show more notifications" but that hasn't made any difference, when I shut the machine down just now it immediately said "getting Windows ready" and it was several minutes before it actually shut down. By the way I have "fast start" turned off because it caused problems with the video card driver but to be honest, when it's turned on I find that while the machine boots a bit faster it takes longer to shut down so it's of little overall benefit!

My nominally most powerful machine is a Lenovo AIO 700 with an i5 processor but even that takes some time to get started. I do agree though that Win10 has become very much better in the last year or so.

Edit: Just found this article (https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/) about fast startup mode which also says it can cause problems. I guess you guys with machines that boot up in seconds have this feature turned on but unfortunately I cannot use it. I'm also guessing the option to "update and restart" is only available if you use fast startup because that mode does not do a full shutdown.

wornish
30th March 2018, 04:31 PM
My Laptop is the basic entry level HP and it gets regular updates.
I tend not to use it for weeks then if the night sky is forecast to be clear I make sure its all updated and charged before going out. It needs about an hour before it settles down and actually becomes useable. As people on here have confirmed things get a lot better if you have a more powerful system.

I don't do any photo post processing on it at all, its just not powerful enough.

wornish
30th March 2018, 09:26 PM
Don't knock it, it does what I want, exept keep up to date :) hence my earlier posts and suggestions that others with better experiences of windows were with way more powerful machines.

Guess its not fair to compare my HP to my iMac 27" 5K Retina display with dual Intel Core i7 4.2GHz processors, 16GB memory and 512KB Flash storage. That certainly is up to the job of post processing and anything else I throw at it.

Bottom line I guess is these days

you don't get "owt for nowt" regardless of the OS:)

Otto
31st March 2018, 08:40 AM
I tend not to use it for weeks then if the night sky is forecast to be clear I make sure its all updated and charged before going out. It needs about an hour before it settles down and actually becomes useable.

I have a similar experience with my little Lenovo. It can sit for weeks unused and when next used, it can take up to an hour before the disk usage drops below 100% and it's worth actually trying to use it. I use the machine I'm writing this on almost every day and it rarely slows down significantly. Windows has become so complex with so many variables that I doubt any two machines are the same!

MJ224
31st March 2018, 09:43 AM
Those basic entry HP's are the pits. Should not be called a computer.

I bought my wife one a couple of years ago, and I am embarassed by its awful performance. Cost of course was one of the main reasons for choosing it.

Hewlett Packard used to be a good brand, but I wont touch one now...........:(

Naughty Nigel
31st March 2018, 01:58 PM
Those basic entry HP's are the pits. Should not be called a computer.

I bought my wife one a couple of years ago, and I am embarassed by its awful performance. Cost of course was one of the main reasons for choosing it.

Hewlett Packard used to be a good brand, but I wont touch one now...........:(

HP's better machines are still very respectable, but the consumer fodder sold in outlets such as PC World is clearly designed down to a price, so you get what you pay for.

Interestingly, other than the Apple Store and some independent specialists it is almost impossible to buy a decent spec computer from a bricks and mortar shop nowadays; and by default even Apple tend to push their lower spec machines from their stores. Buying online is about the only realistic option if you want speed and quality. You don't have to pay that much more either.

I do wonder if this is why so many people complain vociferously about Windows machines? Added to which, consumer fodder tends to be loaded with all sorts of crapware that will slow even the fastest computer to a crawl, which I suppose gives PC World salespeople an opportunity to sell yet more crapware to remove the crapware with. :rolleyes:

Windows remains by far the most dominant OS in all types of business, including those where heavyweight processing is needed so if properly implemented it is clearly isn't the case that is doesn't do what it says on the box.


Guess its not fair to compare my HP to my iMac 27" 5K Retina display with dual Intel Core i7 4.2GHz processors........

Dual i7 CPU's? Is that even possible? :confused:

I thought the Intel Xeon was specified for machines with multiple CPU's.

MJ224
31st March 2018, 02:05 PM
so you get what you pay for.



Undoubtedly..............

My latest pooter purchase was for a reasonably high spec Dell, refurbished....much better and significantly cheaper than PC Worlds offers..*chr

wornish
31st March 2018, 02:23 PM
.............



Dual i7 CPU's? Is that even possible? :confused:

I thought the Intel Xeon was specified for machines with multiple CPU's.


It was late when made the post its actually a 4.2Ghz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor, I blame auto correct *yes

Naughty Nigel
31st March 2018, 04:07 PM
If anyone has an interest in radios, Roberts Radio have an Ebay site for refurbished stock where it's all half the new price.

John

I have used that and it is very good value.

I think they have a shop too, but I am not sure where it is. Possibly Hull I think?

Roberts left West Molesey after major flooding many years ago.

Otto
11th April 2018, 04:36 PM
Edit for Otto: I only get the options to Shut Down, Restart, Sign Out, or Sleep. When an update needs installing I get the option to Update and Shut Down but only when an update is pending.


For the first time ever one of my three Win10 machines has offered the option to "update and restart" or "update and shut down", although not to "shut down without updating". But it's a start I suppose!