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TubaMagna8
29th September 2016, 03:25 PM
Haven't posted on here for a while, But after already working on the Great North Run, taking photographs of runners against back drops, i enquired about doing more work with the company. But got this response because of the gear I use.

Olympus EM-1 with 11-22, 14-54, a few primes as well as borrowing "NaughtyNigels" 50-200.

This is the E-mail:

Thanks for the email, and yes there are always more opportunities to shoot with us, unfortunately the big issue for us is we need people with the right kit. Outside of shooting the medal photographs, we need some pretty high end kit to do the work. Good quality DSLR & high speed 70-200 mm lens or equivalent. This is the very minimum. Unfortunately your camera kit, the Olympus kit, just really doesnít work outside the medal photography environment, itís not designed to do sports photography, and it shows. The camera doesnít have the lens range that is suitable for sports type work. Its difficult as really the only camera systems to get from the off are a Canon or Nikon, due to having kit from the most basic of budgets right up to the £10,000 plus pro lenses. These other camera systems such as the Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax etc are great cameras. Just they are not designed to do what we need of them.

So currently I would be pleased to offer more medal shot events as and when we do it, it would need a serious investment & change of kit to be able to offer other work on the action side of things, which is most of the available jobs we have.


Any advice?

The Technician
29th September 2016, 03:38 PM
Send them this article?
http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/04/28/10-photographers-who-use-mirrorless-for-sports-photography/

Graham_of_Rainham
29th September 2016, 03:52 PM
Forward the email to Olympus and Damien McGillicuddy. :eek:

sapper
29th September 2016, 05:41 PM
Trouble is, they have their mind made up. I doubt whether they would even look at the site recommended by Michael, impressive as it is.

OM USer
29th September 2016, 07:26 PM
Edit the EXIF details.

David M
29th September 2016, 09:51 PM
Edit the EXIF details.

If you're going to do that you may as well have some fun and make it a Canikon that hasn't been released yet. And make the lens a 50-400 f/2 VR IS ED L.

In the days of film all a client cared about was the results, not the tools used. Now everyone is an ''expert' as to what equipment you need.

Ross the fiddler
30th September 2016, 01:49 AM
TubaMagna8 I'm sorry you got that sort of response from them, but what a load of BS they talk! :eek: Do whatever it takes to show up what nonsense they're up to. *yes

crimbo
30th September 2016, 06:14 AM
They say it shows ... so what was it about the action shots they didn't like?


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Jim Ford
30th September 2016, 08:02 AM
Ask yourself if you really want to work for a bunch of muppets!

Jim

Zuiko
30th September 2016, 08:34 AM
Suggest to them that you attend an action shoot, unpaid, which is already being covered by one of their usual photographers with "the right gear." Then they can compare the results and see for themselves.

I know it's a different situation, but I once became involved in a debate on a certain infamous photography forum, in which a few self-styled pro and semi-pro snappers insisted Olympus gear was inferior to their Canikons. I was using the E-3 at the time and they really p****d me off to the extent that I threw down the gauntlet. I would meet up with them anywhere they wanted on a shoot of their choice and we would see who got the best pictures. That thread suddenly went very quiet! :D

Imageryone
30th September 2016, 08:44 AM
The mark of a Canikon sports photographer?

You can't hear yourself think for the rattle of their motordrives *devil

Zuiko
30th September 2016, 08:49 AM
The thing that gets me about the company's response to the OP is that they chose to single out lens availability as one of the main drawbacks. Focussing may have been a valid point (you do have to work a little harder with CAF than with some DSLRs), but lenses?

Ask them if they are aware of these lenses (equivalent focal lengths):-

70-200mm f2
80-300mm f2.8
100-400mm f2.8/3.5
300mm f2
180-500mm f2.8
600mm f4
600mm f2.8

You can also point out to them that their is a comprehensive hire service, stocking most, if not all, of these lenses. :)

Jim Ford
30th September 2016, 09:54 AM
The thing that gets me about the company's response to the OP is that they chose to single out lens availability as one of the main drawbacks. Focussing may have been a valid point (you do have to work a little harder with CAF than with some DSLRs), but lenses?

Ask them if they are aware of these lenses (equivalent focal lengths):-

70-200mm f2
80-300mm f2.8
100-400mm f2.8/3.5
300mm f2
180-500mm f2.8
600mm f4
600mm f2.8


They've made up their mind - don't confuse them with the facts!

I really would be grateful that alarm bells rang early. If they are more interested in gear rather than results, a relationship with them could only mean problems.

Jim

RogerMac
30th September 2016, 11:29 AM
I am going to play Devils Advocate and argue the case of your prospective employers

I own three systems - Canon FF, Four Thirds and micro FT (I can not speak for Nikon) - and all are lovely systems capable of taking excellent images but every one has the at least one specialist area and just for the record here is my suggestions for those areas

Canon - battery life, geo-tagging, image quality for very large prints, low light photography.
Four thirds - , close ups (better control of DOF), All lenses stabalised (even legacy ones), access to affordable very long lenses (600mm EFL or more)

mFT - as FT plus extreme portability

Looking at the job the OP has applied for I suspect that there will be very long days that end in filthy weather conditions where all the areas I have listed for the Canon could be life savers.


I know that John (Zuiko) is a much better photographer than me so I am not going to accept his implied challenge but equally I know that there are circumstances where I could fill the first duty of a professional "Come back with pictures" that he could not with an E3 or even current Oly kit

Roger

benvendetta
30th September 2016, 12:04 PM
I just wouldn't bother with people that are so blinkered. I wonder if the E-M1 Mk 2 will change anything...................? Probably not in their eyes.

Graham_of_Rainham
30th September 2016, 01:36 PM
Wait for the next "News worthy" incident at one of their events, then tell them you have excellent images, but they can't have them...

Zuiko
30th September 2016, 06:53 PM
I am going to play Devils Advocate and argue the case of your prospective employers

I own three systems - Canon FF, Four Thirds and micro FT (I can not speak for Nikon) - and all are lovely systems capable of taking excellent images but every one has the at least one specialist area and just for the record here is my suggestions for those areas

Canon - battery life, geo-tagging, image quality for very large prints, low light photography.
Four thirds - , close ups (better control of DOF), All lenses stabalised (even legacy ones), access to affordable very long lenses (600mm EFL or more)

mFT - as FT plus extreme portability

Looking at the job the OP has applied for I suspect that there will be very long days that end in filthy weather conditions where all the areas I have listed for the Canon could be life savers.


I know that John (Zuiko) is a much better photographer than me so I am not going to accept his implied challenge but equally I know that there are circumstances where I could fill the first duty of a professional "Come back with pictures" that he could not with an E3 or even current Oly kit

Roger

Haha, I'm not much of a photographer now, Roger! At the time of my challenge I was , to be honest, bricking it in case someone with full frame responded with a low light challenge. To give myself the best possible chance I was prepared to hire from Ian an E-5 (marginal improvement) plus any pro lens that might be needed, but in the end there were no takers anyway. Whether I called their bluff or they were just too busy and couldn't be bothered I will never know, but at the time I took it as a moral victory! :D

Nowadays I would expect the E-M1 with the right lens to be perfectly capable for most sports, even in poor light.

RogerMac
30th September 2016, 09:54 PM
Haha, I'm not much of a photographer now, Roger! At the time of my challenge I was , to be honest, bricking it in case someone with full frame responded with a low light challenge. To give myself the best possible chance I was prepared to hire from Ian an E-5 (marginal improvement) plus any pro lens that might be needed, but in the end there were no takers anyway. Whether I called their bluff or they were just too busy and couldn't be bothered I will never know, but at the time I took it as a moral victory! :D

Nowadays I would expect the E-M1 with the right lens to be perfectly capable for most sports, even in poor light.
John
I hope you are right 'cos I have kept my HG lenses hoping one day to pick up a discontinued E-M1 to use that as a second camera replacing the E5

Believe me it is not my intention to bad mouth Oly, and I think the mMF range are brilliant enthusiast's cameras but for a professional's all weather, all day, all light workhorse they are not quite there yet and the prospective employers was probably being kind in their suggestions. I do hope that the E-M1 II is the final turning point for Oly.

David M
30th September 2016, 10:09 PM
Highly amusing for those of us who learned to shot action in the days of manual focus and the highest speed film most editors would accept was Ektachrome 200.

Zuiko
1st October 2016, 12:16 AM
John
I hope you are right 'cos I have kept my HG lenses hoping one day to pick up a discontinued E-M1 to use that as a second camera replacing the E5

Believe me it is not my intention to bad mouth Oly, and I think the mMF range are brilliant enthusiast's cameras but for a professional's all weather, all day, all light workhorse they are not quite there yet and the prospective employers was probably being kind in their suggestions. I do hope that the E-M1 II is the final turning point for Oly.

You raise some valid points, Roger. I've very little experience myself of the E-M1 but I understand that it is more robust and weather resistant than the E-M5, which is poor in comparison to the E-3.

It's true that MFT will never match the latest generation full frame cameras for absolute low light performance, but the E-M1 should be more than capable for sporting events such as marathons.

There is also a question mark over continuous AF with moving subjects, although I believe the E-M1 is considerably better than My E-M5 in this respect and the E-M1ii should be better still.

But what really surprised me about the company's reasoning against Olympus cameras was that they specifically mentioned a lack of suitable lenses, which is patently untrue!

David M
1st October 2016, 02:00 AM
John, you can't expect reality to outweigh ignorance.

RogerMac
1st October 2016, 06:10 AM
But what really surprised me about the company's reasoning against Olympus cameras was that they specifically mentioned a lack of suitable lenses, which is patently untrue!

Agreed
:):):)

Zuiko
1st October 2016, 07:24 AM
I seem to have misinterpreted the company's comments so I take back everything I said. After reading their comments again I can see that they were not claiming that Olympus doesn't have the lens range, but specifically they don't have any £10,000 plus pro lenses.

That's true, the £300mm f2.8 sells on Amazon at only £6478.52, so it can't possibly be up to the job! :D

iso
1st October 2016, 04:38 PM
As a Pentax and now an Olympus owner, I mustn't reply in length to this I would have a seizure:mad: . The Canikon tribe is an inbred group of self serving small brained something's......It's a shame, particularly remembering the true values Nikon used to have.

Naughty Nigel
1st October 2016, 09:09 PM
Ask yourself if you really want to work for a bunch of muppets!

Jim

I would agree with you Jim.

However, there are some other facts that shine a rather different light on things.

Firstly, the company provides photographers with 1 GB memory cards to capture the photographs. They specify that the camera must be set to write Jpeg's of 1 MB or just under, allowing 1,000 photographs to be written on to a card.

Cards are collected from photographers on a regular basis during the day so the images can be uploaded to the internet without delay, and new blank cards provided. In short, it is like a production line, with each photographer taking in excess of 3,000 'trophy' photographs during the day. The photographs are then sold on-line for upwards of £12 each. Photographers don't retain any images and copyright is transferred to the company.

Secondly, in this instance the photographers concerned (a group of photography students) were paid £60 each for working from 9 until 3.30 on a Sunday, plus several hours travelling time through the inevitable traffic chaos.

(To be fair I believe they do pay a slightly higher rate to freelance photographers.)

Travelling expenses were limited to the cost of local public transport, or actual petrol costs calculated on the mileage covered.

So, despite their ignorant and ill-informed comments about Olympus gear, image quality is clearly not a priority for this organisation. Indeed, a ten year old E1 with 50 ~ 200 attached would be more than up to the job, or a 14 ~ 54 for the 'trophy' shots!

I also wonder how many of these events a 'Pro' would need to cover to justify the cost of a new EOS 1D X Mark II plus some L glass?

Come to that, 3,000 exposures represents 2% of the 150,000 shots expected from the shutter of a new DSLR; which in the case of an EOS 1D X Mark II amounts to about £103.98 worth of wear and tear on the body alone! *

Makes you think doesn't it?

(* Based on WEX prices.)

David M
1st October 2016, 09:35 PM
I would agree with you Jim.

However, there are some other facts that shine a rather different light on things.

Firstly, the company provides photographers with 1 GB memory cards to capture the photographs. They specify that the camera must be set to write Jpeg's of 1 MB or just under, allowing 1,000 photographs to be written on to a card.

Cards are collected from photographers on a regular basis during the day so the images can be uploaded to the internet without delay, and new blank cards provided. In short, it is like a production line, with each photographer taking in excess of 3,000 'trophy' photographs during the day. The photographs are then sold on-line for upwards of £12 each. Photographers don't retain any images and copyright is transferred to the company.

Secondly, in this instance the photographers concerned (a group of photography students) were paid £60 each for working from 9 until 3.30 on a Sunday, plus several hours travelling time through the inevitable traffic chaos.

(To be fair I believe they do pay a slightly higher rate to freelance photographers.)

Travelling expenses were limited to the cost of local public transport, or actual petrol costs calculated on the mileage covered.

So, despite their ignorant and ill-informed comments about Olympus gear, image quality is clearly not a priority for this organisation. Indeed, a ten year old E1 with 50 ~ 200 attached would be more than up to the job, or a 14 ~ 54 for the 'trophy' shots!

I also wonder how many of these events a 'Pro' would need to cover to justify the cost of a new EOS 1D X Mark II plus some L glass?

Come to that, 3,000 exposures represents 2% of the 150,000 shots expected from the shutter of a new DSLR; which in the case of an EOS 1D X Mark II amounts to about £103.98 worth of wear and tear on the body alone! *

Makes you think doesn't it?

(* Based on WEX prices.)

I wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole before reading that. Having read the details I hope they get all the 'pros' they need.

Zuiko
1st October 2016, 11:59 PM
For what they pay any camera with P (for professional) on the mode dial will suffice. It makes their criticism of Olympus all the more laughable.

David M
2nd October 2016, 12:16 AM
For what they pay any camera with P (for professional) on the mode dial will suffice. It makes their criticism of Olympus all the more laughable.

In this case maybe P stands for Primates, pay peanuts, get monkeys. :D

Zuiko
2nd October 2016, 12:30 AM
In this case maybe P stands for Primates, pay peanuts, get monkeys. :D

*laugh *laugh *laugh

David M
2nd October 2016, 01:40 AM
John, do you get the newest version of 'The Odd Couple' in the UK? Being a professional photographer has become a punchline in it. When the photographer in the show points out he's a professional he gets asked if that's even a thing these days.

Zuiko
2nd October 2016, 09:17 AM
John, do you get the newest version of 'The Odd Couple' in the UK? Being a professional photographer has become a punchline in it. When the photographer in the show points out he's a professional he gets asked if that's even a thing these days.

I haven't seen that show, but they're not wrong, are they? :(

David M
2nd October 2016, 09:29 AM
I haven't seen that show, but they're not wrong, are they? :(

I found it depressingly accurate. The remake has been on for a year or so, one of the guys from Friends plays the slobby sports journalist. That's about all I remember having only seen a couple of episodes. So I could have missed other jokes about pros.

RogerMac
2nd October 2016, 03:06 PM
As a Pentax and now an Olympus owner, I mustn't reply in length to this I would have a seizure:mad: . The Canikon tribe is an inbred group of self serving small brained something's......It's a shame, particularly remembering the true values Nikon used to have.

Presentably you mean me. Well I may be small brained - that's a matter of opinion - but I can't see how anything I said could be self serving. We now know that the job entails a 3000 shot day and frankly if I were doing it with a Canon I would take at least one spare battery (possibly two) How many spare batteries would you recommend for the OP's camera?

As I have already said I have, and use, two Oly cameras and they are lovely cameras but as always its horses for courses and they do not fit every niche.

iso
2nd October 2016, 03:55 PM
Roger !!!!! Obviously you are not a member of the 'Canikon Tribe' :D because you have the good sense to allow other Brands in your Bag. I think you must know the 'types' I am referring to. Mostly D3300 or 1300D owners with very clean camera straps:):):)

Zuiko
2nd October 2016, 04:46 PM
Presentably you mean me. Well I may be small brained - that's a matter of opinion - but I can't see how anything I said could be self serving. We now know that the job entails a 3000 shot day and frankly if I were doing it with a Canon I would take at least one spare battery (possibly two) How many spare batteries would you recommend for the OP's camera?

As I have already said I have, and use, two Oly cameras and they are lovely cameras but as always its horses for courses and they do not fit every niche.

Roger, I don't think iso meant you at all. You always present very balanced and informed opinions which are a real asset to this forum. The Canikon Tribe to which iso referred are blinkered fanboys who frequent some other forums and completely lack your sound reasoning and impartiality.

Having learned from Nigel a little bit more about how the events company operate and actually use the files and given their original response to the OP, I rather suspect that they belong to the Canikon Tribe.

TubaMagna8
2nd October 2016, 07:18 PM
Thank you for all the comments I have been thinking up witty responses to the email....

I did contact Damian Mcgillicuddy, and i got a quick response, which again proved them wrong, rugby and Motorsport photography being his regular shooting, Certainly the Motorsport was an eye opener.

I also shot today a few Action shots at a local event, using my non sports camera... I will be attaching a few to the response email, as well as stating a few figures such as the 11fps shooting on the EM-1.

The other thing I do keep thinking is maybe they are doing me a favor....

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13935262/E-Group/JJCLEGGPhotography16-0270.jpg

Zuiko
2nd October 2016, 07:42 PM
I think they are doing you a very big favour by not employing you on their ridiculous low pay and crazy conditions. But do send them a reply and let them have both barrels! :D

OM USer
3rd October 2016, 12:34 PM
I seem to have misinterpreted the company's comments so I take back everything I said. After reading their comments again I can see that they were not claiming that Olympus doesn't have the lens range, but specifically they don't have any £10,000 plus pro lenses.
That's true, the £300mm f2.8 sells on Amazon at only £6478.52, so it can't possibly be up to the job!

I'll sell you one for £10,000 !

Jim Ford
3rd October 2016, 01:13 PM
Firstly, the company provides photographers with 1 GB memory cards

Can you get 1Gig cards anymore? I only see a minimum of 4Gig ones nowadays on sale.

(Interesting post, Nigel)

Jim

Ross the fiddler
3rd October 2016, 02:04 PM
Can you get 1Gig cards anymore? I only see a minimum of 4Gig ones nowadays on sale.

(Interesting post, Nigel)

Jim

It's hard enough to find a 2GB card now there is a 1TB SD card.

Zuiko
3rd October 2016, 02:27 PM
I'll sell you one for £10,000 !

Ha ha, I'm not sure what I'd use it for, I doubt I could even lift it! :D

Naughty Nigel
3rd October 2016, 03:03 PM
Can you get 1Gig cards anymore? I only see a minimum of 4Gig ones nowadays on sale.

(Interesting post, Nigel)

Jim

Given the company's investment in the best possible imaging technology I suspect these are left over from the days when 1 GB was the cheapest card size available.

I should also have mentioned that photographers have to issue an invoice for their work and allowable travelling expenses when all work has been completed. Payment is supposed to be made 'within a month', but we'll not hold our breath. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you found the post interesting Jim. Like you I was very interested to learn how these outfits operate, with assets amounting to only a name, a website and presumably a small office somewhere.

They do offer prints and images on CD (at vast expense), but I would expect this work is farmed out to independent labs.

I daresay that but for the naivety/desperation of the photographers concerned the whole operation would fold. There is always someone out for a quick buck, and the same names keep popping out of the hat.

I have long been fascinated by the way that school photographers work, and the business models that they use, but I believe they employ regular staff who are provided with a vehicle and equipment, and are fairly well rewarded.

nzmacro
5th October 2016, 09:47 AM
Been covering power boat races since 1986 here and the last 5 years have been with mirrorless, the Sony NEX-7. Canon FD tele lenses used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

Next year it will be with the lowly E-M10. I expect no complaints. Heck I still use manual focus lenses and have no issue. So what you are going through is just a stigma which is just camera bigotry, but you are stuck with it. Nothing you can do about it though.

I was asked at one time to take milk drops into a bowl. Everyone was running around taking pretty coloured water drops at the time, but this was for a milk company in Malaysia. I submitted the shot and was told it didn't have the size they were after. So, I told them I would redo the RAW and send it again. The camera was jpg only. I simply enlarged the file and sent it off again. The money went into the bank account. So it just goes to show how daft it all is really. It's frustrating for sure.

All the best and yep, it is just nuts sometimes.

Danny.

Zuiko
5th October 2016, 12:08 PM
Been covering power boat races since 1986 here and the last 5 years have been with mirrorless, the Sony NEX-7. Canon FD tele lenses used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

Next year it will be with the lowly E-M10. I expect no complaints. Heck I still use manual focus lenses and have no issue. So what you are going through is just a stigma which is just camera bigotry, but you are stuck with it. Nothing you can do about it though.

I was asked at one time to take milk drops into a bowl. Everyone was running around taking pretty coloured water drops at the time, but this was for a milk company in Malaysia. I submitted the shot and was told it didn't have the size they were after. So, I told them I would redo the RAW and send it again. The camera was jpg only. I simply enlarged the file and sent it off again. The money went into the bank account. So it just goes to show how daft it all is really. It's frustrating for sure.

All the best and yep, it is just nuts sometimes.

Danny.

Some spectacular power boat shots on your flickr, Danny. :)

David M
5th October 2016, 09:21 PM
Been covering power boat races since 1986 here and the last 5 years have been with mirrorless, the Sony NEX-7. Canon FD tele lenses used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

Next year it will be with the lowly E-M10. I expect no complaints. Heck I still use manual focus lenses and have no issue. So what you are going through is just a stigma which is just camera bigotry, but you are stuck with it. Nothing you can do about it though.

I was asked at one time to take milk drops into a bowl. Everyone was running around taking pretty coloured water drops at the time, but this was for a milk company in Malaysia. I submitted the shot and was told it didn't have the size they were after. So, I told them I would redo the RAW and send it again. The camera was jpg only. I simply enlarged the file and sent it off again. The money went into the bank account. So it just goes to show how daft it all is really. It's frustrating for sure.

All the best and yep, it is just nuts sometimes.

Danny.

:D :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Now I remember why we got along on the other forum years ago.

nzmacro
6th October 2016, 04:07 AM
Ha Dave. NPN was a blast at the time, no power boat shots allowed though ;) Think I was only posting macro then as well, heck I was a moderator on there. Ahhh many moons ago Dave and I still have your butt shots ....... birds of course ..... feathered kind, LOL. I must post those back up somewhere and get a few more off ya. Got a heck of a lot myself now days ;)

Thanks John. I tried the E-M10 last year on the power boats between the main races, not too bad, but was still not sure about it. After another thousand or two BIF shots, I know it will work well. So starting in March next year, the E-M10 will be stuck behind the Canon lenses for sure on them.

All the best.

Danny.

David M
6th October 2016, 10:45 AM
As crazy as it seems it's was probably 15 years ago we were hanging out there. I moved to NS.net for a while after the mass migration but haven't hung out there for years.

Naughty Nigel
6th October 2016, 02:51 PM
I was asked at one time to take milk drops into a bowl. Everyone was running around taking pretty coloured water drops at the time, but this was for a milk company in Malaysia. I submitted the shot and was told it didn't have the size they were after. So, I told them I would redo the RAW and send it again. The camera was jpg only. I simply enlarged the file and sent it off again. The money went into the bank account. So it just goes to show how daft it all is really. It's frustrating for sure.

All the best and yep, it is just nuts sometimes.

Danny.

Going back to earlier days of digital photography I remember reading reports that photo agencies wouldn't accept images taken on the Olympus E1 because it didn't have a high enough pixel count. (I seem to remember they expected 6 MP or above).

However, if you interpolated an E1 image in Photoshop to double the pixel count they would accept it! :rolleyes:

Sadly, quantity always seems to win out over quality in the modern day world. :(

Zuiko
6th October 2016, 03:41 PM
Getting back to the original problem, if it's mainly a group of photography students who are being exploited, what's to stop them joining together to form their own agency? They could probably undercut their present "employer" and still earn a lot more from it.

Naughty Nigel
9th October 2016, 08:25 PM
Getting back to the original problem, if it's mainly a group of photography students who are being exploited, what's to stop them joining together to form their own agency? They could probably undercut their present "employer" and still earn a lot more from it.

That is a good plan John. The problem though, I suspect, is that many of the photography students will be unfamiliar with this genre of photography, and/or would have difficulty setting up the necessary 'studio' facilities.

There is also the matter of having the necessary software (to automatically identify competitors from their numbers), and a website on which to sell the images. I daresay they would have had to pay the Great North Run organisers to be there as well.

The job basically entailed taking several thousand mugshots of non-professional runners standing in front of backdrops of the Tyne Bridge; rather like typical school photographs taken against a backdrop of a library. A monkey could have been trained to do the same job - just as long as he didn't stray down the road to Hartlepool! :D

The same company seems to cover just about every mass participation sporting event in the country, using exactly the same formula.

A much better alternative would be for the students to apply to the organisers for press passes, allowing photography on the route, but I suspect these are very carefully controlled, and are probably conditional on silver crossing the right person's palm!

However, my greatest ire is aimed at the university's staff, who told the students that ' this is the real world', and 'this is the kind of work (and pay) you can expect as a graduate photographer' - which I would suggest goes to show just how in touch these people are with the real world. :(

Zuiko
9th October 2016, 10:49 PM
That is a good plan John. The problem though, I suspect, is that many of the photography students will be unfamiliar with this genre of photography, and/or would have difficulty setting up the necessary 'studio' facilities.

There is also the matter of having the necessary software (to automatically identify competitors from their numbers), and a website on which to sell the images. I daresay they would have had to pay the Great North Run organisers to be there as well.

The job basically entailed taking several thousand mugshots of non-professional runners standing in front of backdrops of the Tyne Bridge; rather like typical school photographs taken against a backdrop of a library. A monkey could have been trained to do the same job - just as long as he didn't stray down the road to Hartlepool! :D

The same company seems to cover just about every mass participation sporting event in the country, using exactly the same formula.

A much better alternative would be for the students to apply to the organisers for press passes, allowing photography on the route, but I suspect these are very carefully controlled, and are probably conditional on silver crossing the right person's palm!

However, my greatest ire is aimed at the university's staff, who told the students that ' this is the real world', and 'this is the kind of work (and pay) you can expect as a graduate photographer' - which I would suggest goes to show just how in touch these people are with the real world. :(

Yes, the exploitation of the students by the events company really comes as no surprise. It is the advice and attitude of the university that causes the most concern, I hope my daughter has a better experience when she studies photography at uni next year.

David M
9th October 2016, 11:15 PM
In the 70's students did an industrial secondment in a photo department. I did mine at Rolls Royce and a Shell research establishment. They were unpaid but educational. As all my lecturers had worked in photography before teaching I can't see them agreeing to this sort of gig.

Naughty Nigel
10th October 2016, 08:21 AM
Yes, the exploitation of the students by the events company really comes as no surprise. It is the advice and attitude of the university that causes the most concern, I hope my daughter has a better experience when she studies photography at uni next year.

I hope so too John. Gigs of the type that we are discussing could be done by almost anyone with a suitable camera, and certainly don't need experience.

The course content so far has been good and varied, with much of the work done in B&W using large and medium format cameras. Students have to process their own films and learn how make enlargements from the negatives. There is more use of colour from the second year onwards.

However, I have always been of the opinion that the use of coloured filters is an essential part of B&W photography, (outside of a studio at least), but this aspect is not taught at all.

When the subject was raised with the principle tutor he responded that 'nobody uses filters anymore; we do it in Photoshop or when enlarging'.

I would dearly love to know how this works when using B&W film? :confused: