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IanB
16th March 2016, 12:22 AM
has a forum section ever been considered for the photography beginners? We have such a section down here and it is rather popular for the :o learner questions and their photos where they can receive gentler advice *yes . After all, that's where forums beat the face(less)book type sites; by offering advice.

Just an idea *chr

wornish
16th March 2016, 06:59 AM
Other forums have beginners sections and as you say they are very popular. Nikonites is one of the most popular ones for Nikon users.

Ralph Harwood
16th March 2016, 07:46 AM
Hi there IanB!

The beauty of this site is that it doesn't need a "beginners" section - the spread of ability of the members, together with their decency and honesty mean that everyone can participate and ask any question without worrying about sarcastic or condescending replies.

This is the only photography forum I participate in, mostly for the reasons above. I still very much considet myself a beginner - at least from a photography point of view, and the advice and encouragement I have received have been invaluable. If I can give advice on camera or lens faults from my experiences of pulling them apart then hopefully this pays back some of my debt.

Cheers,

Ralph.

Harold Gough
16th March 2016, 08:22 AM
Other forums have beginners sections and as you say they are very popular. Nikonites is one of the most popular ones for Nikon users.

Some forums are strongly image-based. They may prefer that the quality of images is not diluted by those of beginners. Also, beginners may be hesitant to show their images alongside those of clearly accomplished photographers. Both of these factors make it a good idea to provide a beginners section.

Here, the emphasis is on the Olympus E system and those who use it.

Harold

Wee man
16th March 2016, 09:25 AM
Oh a section just for me!

Wally
16th March 2016, 09:55 AM
I believe we already have the facility where you can put photo's up for comments or criticism... separate areas to deal with the issues. With the plethora of subjects and techniques now available, it would be fair to say that in many ways we are all beginners. Either way, I have always found the comments constructive and the criticisms fair and objective which is one of the joys of this forum.

Wally
16th March 2016, 09:57 AM
Oh a section just for me!

You are not alone... look behind you to see the Q. ;)

Ross the fiddler
16th March 2016, 10:55 AM
Some forums are strongly image-based. They may prefer that the quality of images is not diluted by those of beginners. Also, beginners may be hesitant to show their images alongside those of clearly accomplished photographers. Both of these factors make it a good idea to provide a beginners section.

Here, the emphasis is on the Olympus E system and those who use it.

Harold

Yes, there is a forum based in Tasmania like that & I posted an image in Not for Critique & then a Mod goes & moves it & before long I get torn apart over its details (a slight exaggeration :rolleyes:), so consequently I don't feel like just showing photos of interest only (or any at all).

Wee man
16th March 2016, 11:02 AM
With Wally on his comments above re being able to post and get friendly but helpful comments with banter thrown in.
Or go for full blooded critical appraisal of a photo whether Pro level or beginners.
Having said that people will comment very helpfully on Foto Fair and I see no reason why not.
I know my photography has improved over the seven years I have been visiting this site due to help and assistance given by friends, without the attacks on individuals as I see on other sites.

IanB
16th March 2016, 09:49 PM
Yes, there is a forum based in Tasmania like that & I posted an image in Not for Critique & then a Mod goes & moves it & before long I get torn apart over its details (a slight exaggeration :rolleyes:), so consequently I don't feel like just showing photos of interest only (or any at all). Now I wonder who that is :rolleyes:. I got banned from that one :D

Thanks for the comments and thoughts. I do like the two photo forums here.

I have been trying to convince a forum owner down here to shorter the forum section list from something like twenty five ++ :confused: ; yep over 25 ++ for a forum less active than here. Gear threads get the most posts :(. Would make more sense to run into a brick all day .... "do not change forum names as it affects google rankings" :confused:

Back to the subject .... just an idea; up to mods.

alfbranch
16th March 2016, 10:00 PM
Ian
I have been through suggestions like this before and frankly it is the only thing that will be so highly criticised round here.
Your photos will not but then how do you move forward*shrug

As for posting LFI just go there and see the tumbleweed.*sob

Graham_of_Rainham
16th March 2016, 11:34 PM
While I've been at this a while, there are always new ideas to try and techniques to master. I often comment that I could put my tripod in the same holes as others, pointing in the same direction, with all the same settings and I'd still not get as good a landscape image. I've not learned the art more do I have the eye for landscapes so I'm very much the beginner in this type and style of photography.

As for lack of images in the LFI sub forum, that is completely in the hands of the members. Maybe there is a read across from the "camera club" discussion, in that people are happier with "show and tell".

This whole forum is and will only ever be what the majority of active members want it to be.

*chr

Ross the fiddler
17th March 2016, 12:43 AM
While I've been at this a while, there are always new ideas to try and techniques to master. I often comment that I could put my tripod in the same holes as others, pointing in the same direction, with all the same settings and I'd still not get as good a landscape image. I've not learned the art more do I have the eye for landscapes so I'm very much the beginner in this type and style of photography.

As for lack of images in the LFI sub forum, that is completely in the hands of the members. Maybe there is a read across from the "camera club" discussion, in that people are happier with "show and tell".

This whole forum is and will only ever be what the majority of active members want it to be.

*chr

I'm afraid that I like & have got stuck in the "show & tell" system. :o

Harold Gough
17th March 2016, 07:25 AM
.... "do not change forum names as it affects google rankings" :confused:

I wouldn't want to share a forum with a bunch of google-rankers!

Harold

Ralph Harwood
17th March 2016, 07:48 AM
Ian
I have been through suggestions like this before and frankly it is the only thing that will be so highly criticised round here.
Your photos will not but then how do you move forward*shrug

As for posting LFI just go there and see the tumbleweed.*sob

Hi there Alf!

I hope my post wasn't taken as criticsm of Ians suggestion - it was meant as more of a resounding endorsement of the forum we already have.

Cheers,

Ralph.

Graham_of_Rainham
17th March 2016, 09:45 AM
google-rankers!

Harold

That sounds like 21st century Cockney slang :D

alfbranch
17th March 2016, 11:41 AM
Hi there Alf!

I hope my post wasn't taken as criticsm of Ians suggestion - it was meant as more of a resounding endorsement of the forum we already have.

Cheers,

Ralph.

Ralph
I agree with Ian but would go further. I actually disagree with you as such and others saying the same sort of thing.
You pretty much have to go against the rules to offer real advice in FF like Ian and I did the other day but I started it off.

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41525

The rules were also broken on my thread but the people who did probably new I was not going to cry about it.

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41576

For beginners to learn IMO opinion they need to be told what is wrong or could be improved in what they have done and how to make that step forward.
That unfortunately for some requires cryticism. With a beginner it is best to be done softly and in stages IMO.

I do not condone the sort of thing I see the Amateur Photographer forum where some members cryticise everything harshly whether beginner or not also even if they not understand how to get the shot.

This is my opinion and will ever be thus I expect.

PS.
I am not trying to change things round here just pointing my opinion.

Ralph Harwood
17th March 2016, 05:23 PM
For beginners to learn IMO opinion they need to be told what is wrong or could be improved in what they have done and how to make that step forward.
That unfortunately for some requires cryticism. With a beginner it is best to be done softly and in stages IMO.



Hi there Alf!

I agree with you completely in the need for cryticism to help show people how to move forward - what I don't see the need for is the differentiation between beginners and more advanced photographers - the advantage of this forum is that beginner or otherwise everyone is treated gently and courteously and any constructive feedback whether in fotofair or LFI is helpful.

My recent post of Mam Tor is a case in point where some friendly but unsolicited advice on cropping massively improved my photos. Because I am a beginner I didn't have the vision to see that they could be improved in that way so I didn't post in LFI.

The end result though was through friendly advice my image was improved to the point where I now have a 30" square canvas I adore.

Another thing I love about this site is that people are mature enough to agree to disagree wgen their opinions don't align with no hard feelings - that's another reason I keep coming back!

Cheers,

Ralph.

Harold Gough
17th March 2016, 06:07 PM
The thing to remember, in any forum, is that an opinion about an image is only an opinion. Also, alternative versions of images may be different but not necessarily better, whatever that means anyway.

Harold.

OM USer
17th March 2016, 06:22 PM
The thing to remember, in any forum, is that an opinion about an image is only an opinion. Also, alternative versions of images may be different but not necessarily better, whatever that means anyway.

Exactly. Every now and then a posted picture will somehow invite people to respond with their own version and there as many versions as there are responses all depending on how the viewer sees the original picture.

alfbranch
17th March 2016, 09:30 PM
The thing to remember, in any forum, is that an opinion about an image is only an opinion. Also, alternative versions of images may be different but not necessarily better, whatever that means anyway.

Harold.

I agree

Exactly. Every now and then a posted picture will somehow invite people to respond with their own version and there as many versions as there are responses all depending on how the viewer sees the original picture.

True but is that within the rules of FF?

PeterBirder
17th March 2016, 11:25 PM
True but is that within the rules of FF?

I believe it is.
Long long ago I worked for a manager who used to say"Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the blind obediance of the foolish" and I have found through life that this is good advice.
Most "rules" and particularly English laws are subject to interpretation, (that's what keeps lawyers in business;) ).

The "Rules" for FF say firstly " Post your photos for friendly, non-critical feedback." The adjective "critical" has several meanings, the most commonly used of which is;

" critical adjective (NOT PLEASED)
B2 saying that someone or something is ​bad or ​wrong: a critical ​report The ​report is ​highly critical of ​safety ​standards at the ​factory" (Cambridge online dictionary.)

I interpret the first sentence of the rules as having this meaning. The second sentence of the "rules" qualifies the first by saying "This is the place to show pictures if you aren't yet ready for full-blooded critique," which I interpret as meaning that helpful comments or opinions are fine.

The noun "critique (or criticism) relates to a second meaning of "Critical" which is;

" critical adjective (GIVING OPINIONS)
C2 giving ​opinions or ​judgments on ​books, ​plays, ​films, etc.: She has written a ​major critical ​appraisal/​study of Saul Bellow's ​novels. His last ​film ​won/​received critical ​acclaim (= was ​praised by ​film ​critics)."

The "Rules" of the group are (sensibly) not rigidly interpreted or enforced which is in line with the general relaxed and friendly ethos of the group and its members. Example, this thread, as well as one on "Flash Diffusers" is in "The Lounge" the rules for which explicitly say it is not for "photo and camera talk" but no members or Mods have complained.:)

Regards.*chr

IanB
18th March 2016, 12:01 AM
LOL that OP stirred the fingers into gear :D

*chr

Harold Gough
18th March 2016, 08:11 AM
That sounds like 21st century Cockney slang :D

Really? I have led a sheltered life. ;)

Harold