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Wally
9th March 2016, 08:19 PM
Very interesting: That Northern Ireland and a certain part of England already have regulated energy prices.→ www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35763479 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35763479)

Naughty Nigel
9th March 2016, 09:13 PM
It is also very interesting that nPower and its parent company RWE are having to cut thousands of jobs because of tumbling profits, blamed on the low wholesale cost of gas (linked to low oil prices).

Yet the cost of electricity to consumers has not been cut, and gas prices have only fallen marginally since oil prices hit rock bottom. I seem to remember gas and electricity prices went up rather quickly when oil prices spiked a few years ago.

There is a rabbit away somewhere. Somebody somewhere is making a lot of money out of this, and it isn't consumers. :mad:

Wally
9th March 2016, 09:30 PM
There is a rabbit away somewhere. Somebody somewhere is making a lot of money out of this, and it isn't consumers. :mad:

Using the facts - fiction or otherwise - from the article, I'm left wondering how the 5% reduction in mainland Britain has been lauded when NI have seen a 24% reduction with a further 10% reduction in the pipeline? Interestingly, the article doesn't mention which part of the mainland has been regulated or the % amount of any reductions that have taken place by the uiility provider(s).

It would be 'very intersting' if others on the forum - if any - who have capped prices could shed light on the subject.

There's not just one rabbit loose, there's a whole army of them running loose.

Naughty Nigel
9th March 2016, 09:50 PM
Using the facts - fiction or otherwise - from the article, I'm left wondering how the 5% reduction in mainland Britain has been lauded when NI have seen a 24% reduction with a further 10% reduction in the pipeline? Interestingly, the article doesn't mention which part of the mainland has been regulated or the % amount of any reductions that have taken place by the uiility provider(s).

It would be 'very intersting' if others on the forum - if any - who have capped prices could shed light on the subject.

There's not just one rabbit loose, there's a whole army of them running loose.

We signed up with First Utility on a two-year fixed tariff that has saved us a few bob since last July. First Utility seem to be fairly competitive, but the prices we are paying are still considerably more than they were before the prices rocketed in 2012 or whenever it was.

It's not just consumers either. One of the reasons for the collapse of the UK steel industry is the high cost of energy here, which is significantly higher than that paid by steel producers in mainland Europe.

Walti
9th March 2016, 10:29 PM
The truth as ever is not as reported...

For the 20-25p you pay for a unit of electricity, only a proportion is the true cost of the electricity, and this varies during the day. The cost is made up from around 25 elements which are then averaged for the domestic market over the week to give you one unit price, unfortunately as part of my job I have the pleasure in trying to move the consumption profile around to average out the cost of electricity during the day, because as the bill for the company I work for is in the tens of millions of pounds per annum the individual charges are billed individually...

The price of a unit of electricity is in the region of 4-6p, the cost of the transmission network (the pylons you see) is around 3-4p, the cost of the distribution network (the buried cables near your house) varies from 0.05p to 45p per unit dependant on time of day and region, peak demand charges, meter standing charges, CRC tax, VAT, and a few other charges I can't remember off hand all get added... so a 10% change in energy price is 10% of less than a quarter of the cost you pay, so the papers like to tell you that the changes in cost are not being passed on.... but they are as ever not reporting the whole picture!

Imageryone
9th March 2016, 10:50 PM
Abramovich owns half the world !

Naughty Nigel
9th March 2016, 11:04 PM
The truth as ever is not as reported...

For the 20-25p you pay for a unit of electricity, only a proportion is the true cost of the electricity, and this varies during the day. The cost is made up from around 25 elements which are then averaged for the domestic market over the week to give you one unit price, unfortunately as part of my job I have the pleasure in trying to move the consumption profile around to average out the cost of electricity during the day, because as the bill for the company I work for is in the tens of millions of pounds per annum the individual charges are billed individually...

The price of a unit of electricity is in the region of 4-6p, the cost of the transmission network (the pylons you see) is around 3-4p, the cost of the distribution network (the buried cables near your house) varies from 0.05p to 45p per unit dependant on time of day and region, peak demand charges, meter standing charges, CRC tax, VAT, and a few other charges I can't remember off hand all get added... so a 10% change in energy price is 10% of less than a quarter of the cost you pay, so the papers like to tell you that the changes in cost are not being passed on.... but they are as ever not reporting the whole picture!

I hear what you are saying.

But the fact is, all of the major energy suppliers increased their prices significantly back in 2008 - 2009 (if I recall) on the grounds that the wholesale cost of oil (and hence gas) had risen.

This was followed by further similar increases in the months and years that followed, so consumers faced at least a 50% increase in costs.

The wholesale cost of oil and gas is now lower than it was before the energy suppliers hiked prices, yet the cost to consumers has fallen very little, if at all.

So were the energy companies lying when they said the price rises were necessitated by the increase wholesale gas costs?

If we accept your argument that transmission and generating costs are responsible for a large proportion of our energy costs, why is it that gas and electricity prices rose so much because wholesale oil and gas prices had risen, and why have they fallen so little since?

As I said before, there is a rabbit away somewhere!

al_kaholik
10th March 2016, 09:19 AM
Speculation on the comodities means that a fall now doesn't necessarily mean a fall in price to the consumer until a little later. If you buy two years of gas at high prices, the consumer price remains high, and any savings will lag. Petrol and diesel prices in the UK reflect this recently; speculative supplies have finished and as such, low prices are now more apparent.

Also take a look at privatised infrastructure. I won't get on my "Maggie was a terrible thing for the UK" high horse, but selling the family silver, whilst the solution to a problem at the time, has failed the public long term.

DerekW
10th March 2016, 09:48 AM
whereas selling off the gold bullion at a low price was a good thing for the country

al_kaholik
10th March 2016, 10:14 AM
Absolutely not. Politics is a sticky business I'm better out of! The labour government wasn't without fault too, it's easy to see the failings of both sides with hindsight

DerekW
10th March 2016, 11:54 AM
like the chaos of running out of electricity perhaps because the coal fired generators are being closed down as forecast in the mid 00s and not making a commitment to nuclear power and getting the building of the power stations under way.

Naughty Nigel
10th March 2016, 06:32 PM
whereas selling off the gold bullion at a low price was a good thing for the country

How? :confused:

pandora
11th March 2016, 08:19 PM
In the UK, just as in OZ, it all boils down to good old fashioned corporate greed. All we can do is to shut up, and pay up - resistance is futile! *chr